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Guilty Gear Thread

Matty said:
It's sort of a shame how many characters might not get the light of day for Xrd just because arcade players like a character who is aesthetically Sol with a different playstyle, it's really really dumb.
if it's popular, it's popular.

that's how these things work.
 
Domayv said:
How does she? I though Zato was the most overpowered character in the series
As I said, Zato is a character who excels at pressure output, Baiken is a character who gets better when you pressure her.
 
I find HOS to be the second most interesting GG character and I find pretty much every GG character EXTREMELY interesting.
 
So i was thinking about general game design (mainly thanks to magic the gathering) and the concept of "don't add things your game doesn't need" stood out to me in guilty gear. Does the Roman cancel system serve a meaningful purpose? like, does it fix a problem that GG would have had without it? IE skullgirls's pushblocks give a chance to escape pressure without completely stuffing it, otherwise, the defender literally only has good blocking to defend a block string and offensive pressure would be a million times better/more important than it already is. Seems like the RC's only purpose is to add extra use to your meter by extending damage or making things less punishable

EDIT: not saying that RCs are bad and i hate them because WHY DID THEY MAKE FRCs SO HARD WEEEEH YRCs ARE TOO GOOD (which at least that i can understand), but i'm just asking if anyone else might have an idea behind the design

and yes, i know you guys aren't ASW or Daisuke. just some food for thought
 
Adwins said:
So i was thinking about general game design (mainly thanks to magic the gathering) and the concept of "don't add things your game doesn't need" stood out to me in guilty gear. Does the Roman cancel system serve a meaningful purpose? like, does it fix a problem that GG would have had without it? IE skullgirls's pushblocks give a chance to escape pressure without completely stuffing it, otherwise, the defender literally only has good blocking to defend a block string and offensive pressure would be a million times better/more important than it already is. Seems like the RC's only purpose is to add extra use to your meter by extending damage or making things less punishable

EDIT: not saying that RCs are bad and i hate them because WHY DID THEY MAKE FRCs SO HARD WEEEEH YRCs ARE TOO GOOD (which at least that i can understand), but i'm just asking if anyone else might have an idea behind the design

and yes, i know you guys aren't ASW or Daisuke. just some food for thought

It depends on what you consider what a game doesn't need I suppose. When I say RC, I mean the system in general, not specifically RRC, FRC, YRC, or PRC. Some people feel that RCs add creativity and utility to complement character movesets, although some RCs were absolutely core in order to compete, especially with certain FRCs. Does it fix a problem that GG would have had? Looking at things now: I would say yes, although the system did bring in some problems of its own, especially with Xrd's RC system. Though, it's difficult to say with an objective point of view what the problem would be. It's easy to just say things like "Remove RCs in general, who cares if Robo Ky doesn't get anything off ground combos without 5H FRC or I-no confirms with HCL FRC, that's just how fighting games are, you can't get everything you want." But at the same time, it's just as easy to say that with anything that involves balance, including Skullgirls pushblock imo. "Remove pushblock, you can just block all the things you want anyway. Play a better neutral next time so they don't get in on you first."

RCs are rather ingrained within the game's system that it's a bit impossible to simply state "This doesn't really add anything to our game," remove it, and leave everything else the way it is. It's a fundamental core in the series' current state. If the game gets restructured around the idea that RCs aren't a thing, then yeah, sure, Guilty Gear doesn't necessarily need it. But similarly with Skullgirls, if offense or defense gets changed and balanced around the idea that pushblocking isn't in the game, then you could very well remove pushblocking. But that's not exactly the goal when people say "don't add things your game doesn't need."

When I see that phrase, to me, it means something along the lines of "If we left everything else just exactly how it was, would people be forced to play differently if we removed X design?" I feel that if people are forced to act differently, then yes, the thing that was removed or changed was something the game needed. I feel that removing RCs from GG would change how lots of characters play out like I said above. It's more than just extending damage or making things safe. It's creating pressure and adding mixups as well. Jam 2D FRC, I-no STBT FRC, Johnny 6K FRC, etc. all help create mixup that engages the opponent to react/read properly. Likewise, Johnny KJ FRC, I-no HCL FRC, Robo Ky 5H FRC, can all help to continuously add pressure on the opponent. The system definitely isn't just a "extend damage or make yourself safe." Even in Xrd, you can see that it's not just that by doing things like Gunflame YRC, Stun Edge YRC, or even Zato drill YRC just to get a puddle out. Removing RCs in general would change how these matchups interact - I don't think anybody can truly say otherwise. (yes, I realize there are issues with YRCs in Xrd, I really have issues with the slowdown for example, but I do like the general idea of it as being a slightly more lenient and more used RC that's in neutral or in some pressure situations).

What is something that Xrd at least doesn't need? Danger Time. There are no gameplay mechanics that are hindered or hurt if we were to completely remove Danger Time in its current state and leave everything else alone. None of the characters or their movesets, to my knowledge at least, were balanced around Danger Time being a thing. And I don't know of anybody who does an action in the game with the intent of triggering Danger Time.

Something like unblockables are debatable I suppose. I know that people are quite polarized on this issue - mainly with high/low unblockables and some also on complete unblockables like ABA's kick or a misted Mist Finer. But I suppose this is also related to how characters are designed and balanced around as well. Is Eddie balanced around unblockables? I would say no. Is someone like Johnny balanced around unblockables? Considering how Ensenga (and especially Xrd Zweihander) function along with his coin count, I would be more inclined to say yes.

But RCs I feel are rather core to the game, and removing them would change how many characters function, and thus do not fit under "don't add things your game doesn't need" mantra, at least according to my interpretation of it.
 
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CQUCQOmWEAEeuOf.jpg

this poll is HOS' only way to get in because everyone else is confirmed otherwise.
and as someone who wants EVERYONE in, I'm pushing this guy too.
and for all you whiners who want your dumb popular waifus, they're trailing behind Sol and above Anji.
be happy.
 
Shame that Fanny and the classic unlocks are bottom 3, but I can't say I'm surprised. Kliff and Justice were only playable in one arcade version, and Fanny is super obscure.
 
Adwins said:
So i was thinking about general game design (mainly thanks to magic the gathering) and the concept of "don't add things your game doesn't need" stood out to me in guilty gear. Does the Roman cancel system serve a meaningful purpose? like, does it fix a problem that GG would have had without it?

EDIT: but i'm just asking if anyone else might have an idea behind the design
It's not that it fixes a problem per se, but it's fun and adds a bunch of cool interesting stuff without breaking the game or removing depth or anything like that. The game with RCs is better than the game without RCs, even if you take into account the additional complexity cost.
 
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Eh, I'd rather not have Order-Sol over someone I feel has more immediately unique gameplay that could fill a few holes. Someone like Baiken, Testament, or Zappa could really open Xrd up a bit. However, HOS could possibly help balance normal Sol out if they have to tweak both. Sol is one of the most frustrating things to fight in Xrd...
 
Not surprised Holy Order Sol is currently winning with reasons I already mentioned. This poll type really benefits him due to the swarm of Sol players. That said the midway poll itself doesn't benefit him because it shows he only has a slight lead on Dizzy and it's the final result that matters. I seen many Japanese mid-way polls where the final result can differ. Dizzy, Bridget, or Baiken fans can literally push it to high gear for the rest. You also have to consider that voters could move on to other characters now after seeing theirs have literally no chance of winning and where they will go is up in the air.

Hopefully it's not Holy Order Sol in the end because imo it's pretty lame another Sol gets in [yes I know his gameplay is different, but so are other characters while also having their own identity would say same thing if Robo Ky is winning and I'm a Ky main] before a bunch of other established characters [no I'm not specifically rooting for a 'waifu' I'm literally going for 90% of the rest of the list] that should get in before him.

I also kind of disagree this would be his only chance to get in the game. GG is very likely gonna follow [it's already following it really] the try-and-true Blazblue formula of steadily adding characters through different versions. Also Holy Order Sol and Robo Ky are likely gonna be cheaper to make compared to other characters they have to make from the ground up. Look at Robo Fortune [different then Ms fortune] who was considerably cheaper compared to a non clone character. So yeah he has that going for him. I mean look how many clone characters Blazblue added over the years without the need of a vote lol. Imo wouldn't want to waste a voted character on one of the cheaper to make characters either.
 
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I wonder if we'll ever get Tech's "Los Goodguy." XD Then we'd have 2 Sol clones.

Something tells me there are already some other chars in the works. We have a scene for Gabriel fighting and a new char with the tusk-like mustache in screenshots. Plus the survivor from the end of Xrd's story. There's plenty of pre-established characters to introduce as new fighters along with old ones.
 
So you have the choice of having a bunch of cool returning characters, and you instead choose to have a character that is for all intents and purposes, a dream character?
 
Its almost as if Sol is incredibly popular and is also a major catalyst in why the Guilty Gear universe and several characters exist.
inb4 "lol, guilty gear lore?"
 
I'm... kinda disappointed. But still, anything can happen. I'm thinking that Dizzy might pull through and win.
 
if anything this vote is for who will be in which order.
CQVzjfTXAAAo_3X.png

Number 13 said:
I also kind of disagree this would be his only chance to get in the game. GG is very likely gonna follow [it's already following it really] the try-and-true Blazblue formula of steadily adding characters through different versions. Also Holy Order Sol and Robo Ky are likely gonna be cheaper to make compared to other characters they have to make from the ground up. Look at Robo Fortune [different then Ms fortune] who was considerably cheaper compared to a non clone character. So yeah he has that going for him. I mean look how many clone characters Blazblue added over the years without the need of a vote lol. Imo wouldn't want to waste a voted character on one of the cheaper to make characters either.
I'm just going by what Amadeous said.
https://twitter.com/x/status/649936741852401664
and I'm still waiting for Bloodedge to be added to the roster.
any day now.
any day.
 
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It's finally here!


Really glad people are making efforts to make fighting game accessible to new players. I feel like most fighting games have mostly bad resources nowadays

On the other hand, I'm not sure if the video telling them to play will actually have an effect. I mean, what's the difference between a tutorial that does this and one that doesn't?Though the list of pokes/AAs and a resource channel is a much appreciated addition
 
People treat videos and tutorials like exp in RPG games ("I'll watch this video, poof I understand it and know how to use it!") when the videos and tutorials require people grinding those concepts till they become ingrained and natural. It doesn't affect what the tutorial brings but it sure brings the point back that the concepts have to be practiced; simply watching the video won't do anything.
 
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Anyone that wants Testament back in the game has:

1.Not played old gg vs. testament.

2.Played old gg and played testament.


Not once ever once have I come across someone playing vs. a competent Test and heard "gee, this is fun".
 
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iLoli said:
Anyone that wants Testament back in the game has:

1.Not played old gg vs. testament.

2.Played old gg and played testament.


Not once ever once have I come across someone playing vs. a competent Test and heard "gee, this is fun".
Oh yes playing AGAINST a competent Testament isn't that fun, since you get locked so very very much, but you can say many of the same things against a competent Zato/Eddie >_>

In fact, there are MANY zoners this can be applied to. Peacock, for example. A competent Arakune that swarms the screen with bugs in BB can be infuriating as his curse and bugs interrupt your actions even after you start hitting him. Let's see, Urien's crossups and unblockables are annoying, a number of zoners in MB are infuriating to play against, Arcana Heart has ppl a few rushdowns with heavy mixups that make it hard to keep up and not get broken open. The argument doesn't even apply to zoners or trap characters, hell Carmine, Merkava, and Gordoeu in UNIEL are all annoying as hell to fight if they're competent due to their range, poke, and zoning control. If a player is competent then they can make your experience very poor. Pressure, mixups, resets, character-specific mechanics, etc. It's about enjoying yourself. GG has enough examples even in Xrd of ridiculous and unfun pressure that your argument isn't even applicable.
 
so the real lesson here is
don't play fighting games against people that are good
 
iLoli said:
Not once ever once have I come across someone playing vs. a competent Test and heard "gee, this is fun".
you know what is fun? any match with a competent Jam. especially if they're good enough to win tournaments hosted by guys who voice fighting game characters.

get hype for that everybody.
 
I didn't realize a character getting into Xrd means it's a 1:1 transfer complete with balance issues.
 
North888 said:
Oh yes playing AGAINST a competent Testament isn't that fun, since you get locked so very very much, but you can say many of the same things against a competent Zato/Eddie >_>

In fact, there are MANY zoners this can be applied to. Peacock, for example. A competent Arakune that swarms the screen with bugs in BB can be infuriating as his curse and bugs interrupt your actions even after you start hitting him. Let's see, Urien's crossups and unblockables are annoying, a number of zoners in MB are infuriating to play against, Arcana Heart has ppl a few rushdowns with heavy mixups that make it hard to keep up and not get broken open. The argument doesn't even apply to zoners or trap characters, hell Carmine, Merkava, and Gordoeu in UNIEL are all annoying as hell to fight if they're competent due to their range, poke, and zoning control. If a player is competent then they can make your experience very poor. Pressure, mixups, resets, character-specific mechanics, etc. It's about enjoying yourself. GG has enough examples even in Xrd of ridiculous and unfun pressure that your argument isn't even applicable.
I can't think of much in the current xrd a well timed IB/Blitz/6p/dp/DA won't get you out of.

What's Testament going to do? Beast yrc? Net yrc? That sounds great, Tree YRC, Skull yrc, Overhead yrc? Counter Yrc? Sounds like a joy to work through. Popping testament then having to drop your combo because nets gonna get you, fantastic.

Kind of the same with Anji? Did anyone enjoy getting vortexed?

Like did anyone who didn't play Testament have fond feelings for the character?

Besides finally getting my hands on the testament and frcing after dolphin to make him regret hitting the wall I've got nothing.
 
iLoli said:
What's Testament going to do? Beast yrc? Net yrc? That sounds great, Tree YRC, Skull yrc, Overhead yrc? Counter Yrc? Sounds like a joy to work through. Popping testament then having to drop your combo because nets gonna get you, fantastic.
Have you considered at any point that the underlying problem here might not be the character [as you imagine them to be]?
 
AdenPhoenix said:
Have you considered at any point that the underlying problem here might not be the character [as you imagine them to be]?
Well yeah, of course it's a balance issue, never disillusioned myself into thinking it's anything else.

I just don't want either Anji nor Testament in the game, for my past hatred of them and what I believe they may do to the game, just like how people want those characters in the game for the same reason.

I'd rather have other characters, like momentum based HOS with his neat charge mechanic or Baiken or Bridget.

Also, to clear things up, while I am no Baiken god I've never not once thought the Eddie matchup was particularly in my favor when I played her.

Most of her counters will be punished hard if shadow's up, unblockable on my wakeup gets rid of me doing it as a reversal.

It's when I get to keep those dudes out that I actually get to play.
 
iLoli said:
Well yeah, of course it's a balance issue, never disillusioned myself into thinking it's anything else.

I just don't want either Anji nor Testament in the game, for my past hatred of them and what I believe they may do to the game, just like how people want those characters in the game for the same reason.
Fair enough, though honestly I want Testament because I think he's fun, and I hope that they take the time to balance him at all when the time comes, I don't want busted characters.

iLoli said:
Also, to clear things up, while I am no Baiken god I've never not once thought the Eddie matchup was particularly in my favor when I played her.

Most of her counters will be punished hard if shadow's up, unblockable on my wakeup gets rid of me doing it as a reversal.
Thank you for clearing that up, I don't play her at all and have never fought someone who does, so I just assumed since her tools were what they are that they would be effective against someone as pressure heavy as Eddie.
 
AdenPhoenix said:
I didn't realize a character getting into Xrd means it's a 1:1 transfer complete with balance issues.

Well... Eddie set a precedent.
 
Spencer said:
Well... Eddie set a precedent.
His name changed
 
AdenPhoenix said:
Fair enough, though honestly I want Testament because I think he's fun, and I hope that they take the time to balance him at all when the time comes, I don't want busted characters.


Thank you for clearing that up, I don't play her at all and have never fought someone who does, so I just assumed since her tools were what they are that they would be effective against someone as pressure heavy as Eddie.
While I do feel Baiken snipes Eddie if Zato is trying to approach recklessly and p counter is good for lazy pressure, if the Zato staggers his strings and lets Eddie take the counter he can punish pretty much everything except p counter, at least the Zatos I've played never really tried fucking with p counter.
 
AdenPhoenix said:
I didn't realize a character getting into Xrd means it's a 1:1 transfer complete with balance issues.
from what I've heard, the only thing missing is her dust charge which used meter.
 
I was talking about Testament.
 
iLoli said:
Anyone that wants Testament back in the game has:

1.Not played old gg vs. testament.

2.Played old gg and played testament.


Not once ever once have I come across someone playing vs. a competent Test and heard "gee, this is fun".

I want Testament back so badly, he's the greatest, he's the coolest, and yes, I did play Testament... We collected and drank the tears of our enemies. lol!

AC Testy, EKKUSE BEASUTO!!!! MEZAWARIDA!! MEZAWARIDA!!! <3

Man, I miss Testament. But I like Ky in this game too. Now I wanna watch some Shonen's Testament.
 
Zappa barely making top 10, good enough...
 
Have they actually said how winning works? As in, does the just number 1 character just win and everyone is shuffled off for later, or top 2 or 3 get in? Do the vote numbers have an influence over the order the losers come out in?

Gamrdogg said:
Zappa barely making top 10, good enough...
If it weren't for the huge difference in actual votes I'd be really happy with the top 10 list. Though Anji should be way lower, HOS could stand to be below more unique characters and was coming back anyway.
 
AdenPhoenix said:
If it weren't for the huge difference in actual votes I'd be really happy with the top 10 list. Though Anji should be way lower, HOS could stand to be below more unique characters and was coming back anyway.
Honestly I'm surprised and happy that Robo-Ky got 7th.
 
Mwisk said:
I want Testament back so badly, he's the greatest, he's the coolest, and yes, I did play Testament... We collected and drank the tears of our enemies. lol!

AC Testy, EKKUSE BEASUTO!!!! MEZAWARIDA!! MEZAWARIDA!!! <3

Man, I miss Testament. But I like Ky in this game too. Now I wanna watch some Shonen's Testament.
Man remember those times when you lost, every 10th game?
 
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