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Guilty Gear Thread

mooncakes said:
speaking of voice system, have this been posted yet? It's Elphet's voice system


I like how shes says "Meeee, OMg" when picking herself haha
I'm really looking forward to playing Millia when i finally get this game, but Elphelt makes my heart melt for some reason. I don't even react to cute things usually. I guess that's what subs are for lol

also, about AC+R, do people play that actively on 360? I have #R from GoG and have been dicking around on it some but it has no online play and have no one to play with.
 
alexpi said:
To me, the thing most likely to kill Xrd will be the next Blaz Blue game.

That game is already dead. It's not even out on consoles and people already hate it. The only thing the new Blazblue is killing is itself.
 
Effay said:
also, about AC+R, do people play that actively on 360? I have #R from GoG and have been dicking around on it some but it has no online play and have no one to play with.
there's a netplay client for #R's PC version IIRC, you can find it in the Steam discussions. not sure if it works with the GOG version.
 
ChexGuy said:
there's a netplay client for #R's PC version IIRC, you can find it in the Steam discussions. not sure if it works with the GOG version.

It works with all versions of #Reload, including the GOG version.
 
alexpi said:
So, do you really expect Xrd to die off? I mean, after SF4, how many stuck with 3rd Strike? Hell, just within anime games, I watch players flit between whatever new shiny thing comes out with the exception of Isuka. To me, the thing most likely to kill Xrd will be the next Blaz Blue game. You'll have your handful of guys playing whatever, but I don't see the staying power of, say Marvel 2 or Starcraft when new games in a similar genre are coming out so quickly

i don't choose my games based on how many ppl play them. I'd be playing League or Dota if that was the case. I'll still play GGAC+R as long as my local scene still plays it and there's tourneys for it. It's a great game, Xrd shouldn't "replace" it completely imo
 
To be honest I already know people are gonna play Guilty Gear Xrd over Blazblue and I'm fine with that. I'd just like for Blazblue to come out with the final installment so I can play taht and enjoy it with the other people who stayed behind with it.

I mean I'm still also gonna play Xrd and the updates but Blazblue always has my heart.
 
Ok...Elphelt is hilarious. Not that I'm gonna main her or anything but everything she does just makes me smile, it quirky and yet funny.

On an unrelated note, apparently I suck at half circle motions now, because I'm having some inconsistencies in doing a lot of them with May and Axl. Need to get used to doing them again I guess.
 
alexpi said:
So, do you really expect Xrd to die off?
Expect? No, because as you just said the pool of people who don't care whether a game is good and are willing to justify playing crap cuz it's new is bigger than the pool of people that will play what is good despite the age.
Hope? Yes, becuase Xrd is IMVHO a really terrible Guilty Gear.

alexpi said:
I mean, after SF4, how many stuck with 3rd Strike?
Enough that I can still play it at Super with people who don't suck. That's fine with me. It doesn't bother me if the majority of people I don't care about move on to New And Shiny, as long as the people I do care about continue to play Games I Enjoy.

Small rant:
The FGC has largely left behind all the games I see as having any semblance of fun, good pacing, enough neutral, or balance. This seems largely due to fighting game developers having lost all the people who have any understanding of fighting games and their real nuances, so all the new games are just kinda starting the learning process of how to make decent gameplay over again. AC+R was a small step sideways from AC, but at least it kept the sense of what AC had.

The thing that makes me sad is that there are people who have been playing fighting games since 2009 that think the current crop of junk is what fighting games should be, or the final evolution of what they can become (and that they won't play anything older because it's old, or hard, or whatnot). I see people forcefully argue that all anime games have loops and unblockables and most games have infinites - why do we, as a community, ACCEPT THIS?

It takes a long time to get comfortable enough with (note I did not say "good enough at") Third Strike or MvC2 or GGAC [or CvS2 or VSav or whatever] to appreciate why they work the way they do, and most people aren't willing to do that because it involves losing. Besides KOF, I haven't entered a game at Evo since 2010 (and I sincerely doubt SG will be in there this year so the streak will probably continue). SF4, MvC3, BB after CT, and now Xrd are just so un-fun for me because for a long time I played games that didn't have the problems they have! But I'm one of the only people I know that has those kind of standards.

I skipped mentioning SG anywhere in there because I don't want to egoize.
 
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Didn't you play Blazblue in EVO 2011? You got a 75 hit Sledge combo on Ike Takeda. Never forget.
 
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That explains you doing nothing but fucking around lol. It was fun to watch.
 
Jutsei said:
So, we got (technically) four brand new characters in Guilty Gear Xrd (Sin counts, he wasn't playable in the context of a fighting game), how's everyone feel about them?
I like them a lot.
Kinda makes me wonder what the fuck else Ark Sys will come up with for the future and their other games


Ramlethal and Elphet look like they're meant to a blazblue game. Leo is cool and Sin... ugh
 
@Mike_Z

Excepting SG, I know you aren't a fan of virtually any of the newer fighters: BBCP, SFIV, Xrd, UMvC3. Maybe Yata(?), P4U(?). What makes CT, AC, 3rd Strike better than the current crop of games?

If you would rather speak specifically to Xrd given the topic, that's fine too.

@Ktulu Victoria

What's the new BB? I've not really tried to stay in the know, but I've heard nothing. Or do you mean the patch for CP?
 
Ok so going through challenge mode and trials and stuff, I'm not sure how I feel about it. Idk it feels off. Some of the trial combos don't give you credit for completing the combos. Sometimes trying to execute a combo results in their recover despite doing it dead on. I feel no difference from when I succeed and when I fail a trial. Am I just going insane or is this just a quirky bug? Is this like SF4 where you have some 1 frame links or is my execution off? They don't really explain much as to the reasoning to dropping combos in trials. Also I'm finding the game to be VERY unforgiving with your motions. I don't know maybe I just need to spend more time with it.
 
Mike_Z said:
stuff
I think that what you say regarding people abandoning older fighting games can pretty much be summed up by this sentence: It's not new, SO IT NEEDS TO DIE.
 
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Spencer said:
What's the new BB? I've not really tried to stay in the know, but I've heard nothing. Or do you mean the patch for CP?

I'm sure he's talking about CP 2.0 with those balance changes. Apparently it's so terrible Blazblue fans hate it.

@Rizil Do they still have the option for the game to show you exactly how the combo is done, with inputs and all? What I've found after playing CSE challenge modes and then CP challenge modes is that Arc games have been becoming progressively worse with what they do and don't tell you about how a combo is done. Like, they'll tell you to just input a regular jump when you need a super jump, or etc. It gets especially bad when you need to RC at an extremely specific time just to get the combo to work. Old GG seemed to me to be much more forgiving than Blazblue with combos, I hope that hasn't changed.

As for which games are popular and which games people personally feel deserve to be played... might be a bit off-topic here but I've noticed the same thing in competitive first-person shooters and to a lesser extent RTS games. In fact I see a lot of parallels between the communities of FPS games and fighting games -- the whole e-sports scene was really born out of the sort of grassroots efforts of LAN events such as QuakeCon, but later co-opted by corporate interests because it was convenient for them. I've got a crazy theory that it isn't actually that people like the new games more but which games have better marketing. People wistfully talk about the old Tribes, Quake, and UT games as if they can no longer play them but if you were to hop online you'd actually still find a community stubbornly clinging onto its last threads. Old Tribes died but a lot of players (almost reluctantly) decided to give Ascend a chance because they wanted a return to form that was never going to happen. Many old players don't see much of a choice but to move onto the new games in their favorite series because they want the properties to stay relevant. Many new players were never particularly interested in what made the old games great in the first place. I feel that most of the problems that fighting games have with retaining players are symptomatic of a wider shift in video gaming zeitgeist. Even single-player games have a hard time keeping players interested for multiple years these days.

Ultimately, the market in general was never interested in design, it's interested in instant gratification, and the entire culture of "old" fighting games is incompatible with that mindset.

On the other hand I don't really see Guilty Gear dying because there really isn't anything that's like it that managed to achieve what it does. There are more distinctive flavors of Street Fighter, KoF, etc. that oldschool players are going to be divided among them. Guilty Gear? You aren't going to see a lot of people holding tournaments for X, #Slash, or the original Accent Core.
 
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shoryusatsu999 said:
I think that what you say regarding people abandoning older fighting games can pretty much be summed up by this sentence: It's not new, SO IT NEEDS TO DIE.
This is true for most games really. People moved on from Quake 3 to 4 even though Q3 was better. The Halo games have gotten progressively worse but every time a new one is released the old one dies in competitive play. Every new CoD game make the previous ones die too.
 
Well they do specify when you need to jump cancel and if its just a regular jump or a super jump. They also tell you input commands and give a demo to the combo as usual, but they don't really indicate delays or timing. That was stuff I kinda had to observe from the demo and figure it out. Right away first thing I was having trouble with was May's Air dash S>HS>s.P>c.Dust>hcf.P was the first combo I was having genuine trouble getting to land simply because of the height of the air dash. Either I'd dash too far away and not reach, dash too early and fly over, or dash late and j.HS wont come out. Hell I have an instance trying to do May's j.2HS>s.P>c.Dust>hcf.P simply because I always seem to get pushed too far away to land the punch or dust. Meh I think it's just me needing to practice, but still I feel there's no consistency with combos.
 
@Rizil

I've noticed nothing of the kind to be honest. I've been running trials and missions almost exclusively and they feel tight to me.

@shoryusatsu999

That is true to an extent with all games for sure, but sometimes updates are necessary. SC2 is a worse game than SC1, but SC1 is so dated that it is frustrating to do any damn thing unless you learned on it. DOTA is the same. Having played some of even the current crop of fighters like BBCP or P4U much less the older fighters can be frustratingly stiff when dealing with the smoother games like SG, SFIV, and now Xrd.
 
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Spencer said:
That is true to an extent with all games for sure, but sometimes updates are necessary. SC2 is a worse game than SC1, but SC1 is so dated that it is frustrating to do any damn thing unless you learned on it. DOTA is the same. Having played some of even the current crop of fighters like BBCP or P4U much less the older fighters can be frustratingly stiff when dealing with the smoother games like SG, SFIV, and now Xrd.

Yeah but isn't that kind of thing good for you? I could never get past the stiffness of Brood War but that doesn't stop me from getting past the stiffness of Red Alert 2. Dota and Brood War were insanely popular despite their mechanical eccentricities.

BB and P4U make a lot of things easy but in turn that makes learning certain parts of the game harder. I think the guy who maintains the Mizuumi wiki wrote something thoughtful about this, because he doesn't like the whole Roman Cancel mechanic in Guilty Gear in the first place, and ever since GG it's been appearing in various forms throughout fighting games (FADC, etc); and it's that he feels it fundamentally alters the nature of commitment. Mechanical difficulty and complexity provide certain guarantees that people are going to play a game a certain way. I know Mike Z has said something along the lines of, "if you put something in a game assume players will be able to do it" but that's mostly true only for the players who actually want to learn the game.

If a player walks away from a fighting game because it's too hard for them to learn when they're physically capable of playing the game (just that they don't feel like trying), then I don't feel like that's entirely the game's fault. That's not to knock against those players for their preferences, just to say that the game isn't for them. A lot of people complain that QCF is too confusing for fighting games, but the vast majority of our knowledge on how fighters should be designed relies on these same conventions. Change this, and you change the nature of the game. Make too many concessions and what you end up with is not the same thing at all.
 
Rizil said:
Ok so going through challenge mode and trials and stuff, I'm not sure how I feel about it. Idk it feels off. Some of the trial combos don't give you credit for completing the combos. Sometimes trying to execute a combo results in their recover despite doing it dead on. I feel no difference from when I succeed and when I fail a trial. Am I just going insane or is this just a quirky bug? Is this like SF4 where you have some 1 frame links or is my execution off? They don't really explain much as to the reasoning to dropping combos in trials. Also I'm finding the game to be VERY unforgiving with your motions. I don't know maybe I just need to spend more time with it.
You just need to practice. I do think there is more information the game could give you in some of those challenges, but watching the replay very closely usually shows you what you are missing. Some are tricky, but for the most part the trials are showing you fairly practical in game stuff that you just need some practice to get down.
 
gold163 said:
Yeah but isn't that kind of thing good for you? I could never get past the stiffness of Brood War but that doesn't stop me from getting past the stiffness of Red Alert 2. Dota and Brood War were insanely popular despite their mechanical eccentricities.

BB and P4U make a lot of things easy but in turn that makes learning certain parts of the game harder. I think the guy who maintains the Mizuumi wiki wrote something thoughtful about this, because he doesn't like the whole Roman Cancel mechanic in Guilty Gear in the first place, and ever since GG it's been appearing in various forms throughout fighting games (FADC, etc); and it's that he feels it fundamentally alters the nature of commitment. Mechanical difficulty and complexity provide certain guarantees that people are going to play a game a certain way. I know Mike Z has said something along the lines of, "if you put something in a game assume players will be able to do it" but that's mostly true only for the players who actually want to learn the game.

If a player walks away from a fighting game because it's too hard for them to learn when they're physically capable of playing the game (just that they don't feel like trying), then I don't feel like that's entirely the game's fault. That's not to knock against those players for their preferences, just to say that the game isn't for them. A lot of people complain that QCF is too confusing for fighting games, but the vast majority of our knowledge on how fighters should be designed relies on these same conventions. Change this, and you change the nature of the game. Make too many concessions and what you end up with is not the same thing at all.

Yes and no. It is hard to go back. I've grinding harder in vanilla WoW than I'll ever care to again. I've seen the light. Similarly, the moment WC3 introduced tab'ing through units for specials... damn. If I loved SC1 enough, I'd have stuck it out, sure... but having moved on, I expect more from my RTS.

And I'm not necessarily blaming the game. I'm just adding why I think people move on. The pretty does help. The new features do help. Hell, in some cases, the dumbing down does help. Would SFIV lose something if they eliminated 1 frame links? Would I suddenly start competing with Mike Ross? Of course not. So instead it serves as a needless barrier to entry and an insurance that I can't ever land Ken's s.lp > c.hk because I play online only. And you're right, a difficult fighter might not be "for them", but I still think we should ask whether it is needlessly difficult and thus needlessly driving away people that would otherwise stay. The type of person that goes into a fighter and is willing to lose like 200 straight games just to stick execution and have a vague recollection of MUs is a rare person indeed. While some of this might be necessary, not all of it is.
 
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Mike_Z said:
The thing that makes me sad is that there are people who have been playing fighting games since 2009 that think the current crop of junk is what fighting games should be, or the final evolution of what they can become (and that they won't play anything older because it's old, or hard, or whatnot)..

Your "How to make fighting games" panel at UFGTX was fantastic. It was primarily about what contemporary games don't do from a game development and player usability point of view, not really much gameplay design-specific things. Would you be interested in taking the time to write an article/do a talk on twitch or something about gameplay design related things that contemporary fighting games do wrong?

I remember seeing you post about and explain your issues with certain games in random places, either Dustloop or Skullheart or wherever, but these are all just small comments here and there. A thorough breakdown would be incredibly good to read, and potentially a golden nugget of knowledge in fighting game literature (for lack of a better term).
 
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I wish Blitz shield was invincible completely for a duration when successful or something. I feel ASW missed an opportunity in allowing Blitz Shield to be an answer to Zato unblockables. You can kinda use it against normal Zato strings but if you do it against the unblockable you are stuck in the successful reject pose if you guess which hits first and then get bopped by the opposite hitting move.
 
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Now granted I haven't played a Guilty Gear since X2 #Reloaded, and even then I wasn't exactly what I would call "good", but yea I'm pretty sure this is just part of the learning curve for me. Too late to grind it out now, need sleep.
 
why should blitz shield be an answer to unblockables? Zato needs his unblockables, its a core part of the character.
 
Dagwood said:
why should blitz shield be an answer to unblockables? Zato needs his unblockables, its a core part of the character.
It would be much cooler than perfectly timed Dead Angle being the only option outside reversals.

That said if you have a DP or 75% meter you can blitz shield xx invincible thing to still beat him....


I think it is just kinda silly that Zato gets unblockable into unblockable strings. Unblockables are certainly part of him, but they obviously wanted to tone it down in Xrd with the removal of an overhead shadow attack, making drill special the only option. However with the rest of the mechanics of the game.... slow RRC allows you to easily combo out of an unblockable and stall for time (Eddie meter doesn't slow down during RC slowdown) then use the new dust wall stick into an ABSURDLY long combo and set up another unblockable.

I've been grinding it, but I don't particularly approve of it, even if it does cost 50% tension. (Actuall Ogawa found a way to do it meterless but it is character specific and so incredibly difficult he almost always drops it himself in game)
 
Dagwood said:
Zato needs his unblockables

You are either a zato player or you do not play guilty gear

Edit: I jumped the gun, I apologise. He doesn't exactly NEED his unblockables, yes they are part of his character, but large damage unblockable into large damage unblockable into large damage unblockable into dead is overkill in Xrd.
 
i've watched hours and hours of ogawa Xrd footage and never even seen him do the double unblockable. And even regular unblockables are rare, it's not often you get someone in the corner without dead angle or burst, and open them up.... all of his damage is off glancing hits and short combos here and there, yet ppl act like Zato is: Land a hit-> unblockable and win, its not like that at all, it takes a shitload of work to do well with zato. ppl should complain about braindead Milia or I-no rather than zato.
 
I think people are more worried about Faust than Millia or I-No.
 
Dagwood said:
i've watched hours and hours of ogawa Xrd footage and never even seen him do the double unblockable. And even regular unblockables are rare, it's not often you get someone in the corner without dead angle or burst, and open them up.... all of his damage is off glancing hits and short combos here and there, yet ppl act like Zato is: Land a hit-> unblockable and win, its not like that at all, it takes a shitload of work to do well with zato. ppl should complain about braindead Milia or I-no rather than zato.
Maybe you should... try playing the game first before you start making a fool of yourself like this man, I don't want to sound harsh but a lot of things you are saying here sound completely off base.

Zato combos with Eddie have absurd carry, from a bit further than round start, you can carry to the corner and still set up an unblockable.

Watch some Ogawa or really any good Zato player, yes they will win off mostly nobiru hits, but unblockables happen often and they often decide rounds.

I-No is far from brain dead... she is also considered low tier right now, one of the worst in the game. Have you just been watching Hasegawa vids or something, that guy is just really really good. She is not as easy to play as you make out, especially now that she has lost range on her BnB knockdowns and HCL doesn't hit crouching from even point bland, nor does it have a reverse hitbox AT ALL anymore.

Millia is really good, but she isn't all that different to her past iterations, she is really scary if she knocks you down, but she is certainly not braindead.



I'd much rather complain about Faust and Sol anyway, they own my soul.
 
Tomo009 said:
I-No is far from brain dead... she is also considered low tier right now, one of the worst in the game.
u wot m8
 
ChexGuy said:
u wot m8
If you seek out people's current opinions, you will mostly find her as B or C tier, somewhere around 3-5th lowest on average, sometimes mid but very rarely above that.

Bedman seems to be moving upwards on a lot of people's lists now, though.
 
Tomo009 said:
If you seek out people's current opinions, you will mostly find her as B or C tier, somewhere around 3-5th lowest on average, sometimes mid but very rarely above that.

Bedman seems to be moving upwards on a lot of people's lists now, though.
The three most recent ones I saw had her at least 5th lowest at the very least with in those three players' opinions :V

(I usually don't pay attention to tier lists)
 
DLC release schedule for NA http://www.aksysgames.com/2014/12/16/guilty-gear-xrd-sign-release-day-announcement/

Sin Kiske (Character)12/16/14
Elphelt Valentine (Character) – Free until 1/5/1512/16/14
System Voices (all minus Leo Whitefang)12/16/14
Leo Whitefang (Character)12/23/14
Leo Whitefang System Voice12/23/14
Character Colors (individual and bundles)12/23/14
System Voice Bundle 12/23/14
Christmas Colors (Free from 12/23/14-1/13/15)12/23/14
PSN Avatars 12/23/14
PlayStation Plus Colors (available 1/13/15-2/10/15) Free for PS+ subscribers 1/13/15
 
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ChexGuy said:
The three most recent ones I saw had her at least 5th lowest at the very least with in those three players' opinions :V

(I usually don't pay attention to tier lists)
In older lists you would usually see, from the bottom up


Potemkin
Bedman, Slayer
Venom, I-No, Axl etc

Right now it seems pretty similar to that, but with Bedman more middleish.
 
Now that I think about it, it seems pretty stupid to lock out a color for everyone unless they ponied up for PS+ and got the colors within a short timeframe.
 
Eh, i don't really see i-no as low tier besides i will agree with @Dagwood that i-no is braindead when and only when she gets a knockdown.

Knockdown, note, mixups, knockdown, note, mixup, knockdown, note, mixup, slash.
 
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