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Guilty Gear Thread

agent13 said:
Eh, i don't really see i-no as low tier besides i will agree with @Dagwood that i-no is braindead when and only when she gets a knockdown.

Knockdown, note, mixups, knockdown, note, mixup, knockdown, note, mixup, slash.

Sol, though =(

Note oki isn't really perfectly safe from reversal. VCL YRC is crazy though.


She has a lot of setups, it may seem like someone is just running train on you, but I wouldn't call it braindead, she has to set up the oki and then a lot of her mixups are hard to confirm off properly without meter, j.D FDC and the like without bursting.

She also loses confirms if you FD one mixup, she has to reset pressure on you which carries as much risk as usual.

Except against Potemkin, I-No vs Potemkin is braindead, I would nearly say that of Bedman too. HCL YRC just wins the game, pressure anywhere for 25% tension into I-No mixups and not much to get you off them really.
 
Tomo009 said:
Sol, though =(

The only brainless part of Sol oki is making you wake up into YRC Gunframe.

Jump-in high/empty jump low is potentially fuzzy guardable(using the 3d/japanese terminology, not guard switch overhead) with good enough timing, and riot throw requires you to condition your opponent to not want to press non-invincible buttons or jump in order to actually land it. Sol's mixup is not really brainless.
 
These are the only tier lists I'm familiar with. They are old though.

The tl;dr:
Zato, Faust are top tier.
Milia, Ram, Sol are probably top tier.
Potemkin is probably bottom tier.
Everyone else is in flux.
 
ClarenceMage said:
The only brainless part of Sol oki is making you wake up into YRC Gunframe.

Jump-in high/empty jump low is potentially fuzzy guardable(using the 3d/japanese terminology, not guard switch overhead) with good enough timing, and riot throw requires you to condition your opponent to not want to press non-invincible buttons or jump in order to actually land it. Sol's mixup is not really brainless.
That's not what I meant. I mean Sol makes it so your I-No setups have to perfectly on point or you just get blown up constantly or potentially give up oki, which you don't want to do as I-No.
 
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The only reason i ended up thinking faust is top tier because he has no bad matchups, but then again i consider him more a luck character

I was playing against a friend of mine and he did fausts super and ended up getting an oil can, 3 or 4 bombs and poison and he blew himself up and there went 40%
 
What he puts out is luck, but how he responds to what he puts out isn't.

I think he's generally considered a pretty solid pick.
 
agent13 said:
The only reason i ended up thinking faust is top tier because he has no bad matchups, but then again i consider him more a luck character
Nani ga deru ka na? and its Overdrive counterpart may be a big part of his moveset, but they're far from the only things a skilled Faust player uses. He's a spacing machine.
 
So far, it seems that: Zato, Faust, Milia, Elphelt, Chipp and Ramlethal are the very strong characters.

Also, there are combos into IKs in this game, that's... er... stupid. o.O'
 
At least IK combos are situational and can only be used like Astrals from Blazblue. And how is Elphelt shaping up? What are her matchups like?
 
Mwisk said:
So far, it seems that: Zato, Faust, Milia, Elphelt, Chipp and Ramlethal are the very strong characters.

Also, there are combos into IKs in this game, that's... er... stupid. o.O'
Eh, you can only do them when your opponent's in Hell Fire, so it's pretty balanced out that way.

Ktulu Victoria said:
And how is Elphelt shaping up? What are her matchups like?
According to the DL wiki, she's great when on the offensive, both at range and up close, but she has two big weaknesses: most of her stuff's usability depends heavily on the matchup (including her combos) and her defensive options are crap (seriously, there are times where you can punish cake super on hit if the cinematic doesn't trigger).
 
shoryusatsu999 said:
there are times where you can punish cake super on hit if the cinematic doesn't trigger

Is that a glitch?
 
Doubt it. It's like Shin Shoryuken: if the cinematic hit doesn't hit, she goes into a weak multi-hit uppercut. Can forward tech after the uppercut. Probably has very little hitstun in that case. Some characters can punish her for it.
 
How easy is it to bait?
 
Pretty easy, it seems. Don't even need to bait it to counter it, though. Lemme quote the DL wiki's description to show you just how bad it is:

"Reversal. 1st hit triggers a cinematic and deals a LOT of damage. Invul seems to disappear a bit before the active frames. Doesn't trigger the cinematic if it trades. Bad hitbox and horrible on whiff or block. If the cinematic isn't triggered, do a shoryuken like move that hits 5 times maximum for moderate damage. Problem is that the opponent can air tech before your face while you're still in recovery allowing some characters to punish you on HIT.

This is probably the worst reversal in the game and if you need to use meter in defense, consider using Faultless Defense or Dead Angle Attack instead. It's good as a combo filler however and will provide you a knockdown."
 
Jesus Christ.
 
Mwisk said:
So far, it seems that: Zato, Faust, Milia, Elphelt, Chipp and Ramlethal are the very strong characters.

That pretty much is what I'm seeing too, Sol and Ky are up there though.
 
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Tomo009 said:
That pretty much is what I'm seeing too, Sol and Ky are up there though.
I've seen Sol, Ky, and May pretty consistently at A tier.
And potemkin sucks. All the ones in the middle of these two groups nobody seems to agree on.
 
Oh yeah May, she is a thing, too.

I've seen I-No, Axl, Venom, Slayer and Bedman in all sorts of configurations.

I'm seeing Bedman move up from 2nd worst though and I think he could keep going for a while, maybe end up mid high.



Leo and Elphelt out today, excited to try them both out.
 
Bedman I think will take a while to stabilize. He's definitely non-standard with a learning curve and a small player base.

I think it is possible that other more straight forward and easy to pick up characters like Sol and Ky end up worse off as the game progresses too.

Out of curiosity, why is Potemkin so bad? Any other "low tier"?
 
Potemkin has to work really hard to win, which is why people say he's bad
 
Why does he have to work really hard to win?
 
Spencer said:
Bedman I think will take a while to stabilize. He's definitely non-standard with a learning curve and a small player base.

I think it is possible that other more straight forward and easy to pick up characters like Sol and Ky end up worse off as the game progresses too.

Out of curiosity, why is Potemkin so bad? Any other "low tier"?
Potemkin Buster lost damage and range, Heat Knuckle lost most of its oki-inducing ability, 2S lost its vacuum effect, air Pot buster and Judge Gauntlet (a good combo tool and something of questionable use, respectively) were replaced by ICPM and Trishula (BOTH things of questionable use, though Pot effectively gains an airdash with YRC ICPM), 6K was completely altered...
 
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His new 6K isn't exactly bad, though.

Main things I would say are 2S lost its vacuum and Heat Knuckle is pretty bad now for anything other than damage. As far as I can see, if you aren't going to RRC it, there is no reason to ever not go into Heat Extend in Xrd like there was before.
 
Actually, considering that it does a lot of damage and gives a lot of Tension and they get sent flying anyway, there's practically no reason NOT to Extend unless in the corner so you can hit another Heat Knuckle.
 
So is it a matter of "this guy sucks"? Or more a matter of "we need time to get used to the new Potemkin"?

His comeback potential seems pretty awesome. I've seen a couple of vids where he's losing pretty handily only to put hands on and end it in a few good throws.
 
Probably the need to get used to new stuff. 6K loops and Gigantic Bild do a ton of damage, for example. Nobody seems to expect ICPM from range, either. I think people are still trying to play him like in AC when Xrd is a completely different beast. Oh yeah, some more different/worse things: flick projectile doesn't go full-screen and 5P misses crouchers.
 
shoryusatsu999 said:
Actually, considering that it does a lot of damage and gives a lot of Tension and they get sent flying anyway, there's practically no reason NOT to Extend unless in the corner so you can hit another Heat Knuckle.
That's exactly what I thought I said, reading over it I still get that but I can see how the sentence could have got confusing.

I like AC heat knuckle more than Xrd


EDIT:

Potemkin just has REALLY horrible matchups in this game.

I feel sorry for Potemkin when I play I-No, he really can't do much but hammerfall/break and hope I screw up because otherwise i'm keeping him blocking forever no matter where he goes.

When you block I-No, you don't just get away, mixups happen.
 
Oh. This is a thread.

Faust is good. He doesn't need item super, but that doesn't stop me from burning my 100 meter on nanananananani ga deru kana.

Also, our resident May expert who has arcade exp says that while May is Moe-tier, she's not A tier. Word from Japanese players, from my understanding, is that due to her lack of good damage off low, her mixups are mega sadface.

Also, Dolphin Ride is Blitz Shield bait.
 
agent13 said:
I was playing against a friend of mine and he did fausts super and ended up getting an oil can, 3 or 4 bombs and poison and he blew himself up and there went 40%
My RNGesus reliance was more a product of me touching the game for the first time. All my meter goes to YRC and RC shenanigans now.
 
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Krackatoa said:
Faust is good. He doesn't need item super, but that doesn't stop me from burning my 100 meter on nanananananani ga deru kana..

Want to play Faust without items? I got the perfect game for you!


Going my way also had near-instant startup and was pretty safe on block, too. :p
 
Flotilla said:
Want to play Faust without items? I got the perfect game for you!


Going my way also had near-instant startup and was pretty safe on block, too. :p
Back when he was fucking scary.
I'm so glad they made him stop being a serial killer.
 
Flotilla said:
Going my way also had near-instant startup and was pretty safe on block, too. :p

It is still really +ve if you do it close to the ground. Not from pogo, though, you have to TK it or do it in the air to make it + stupid on block.
 
Tomo009 said:
That's exactly what I thought I said, reading over it I still get that but I can see how the sentence could have got confusing.
Yeah, I thought you said there was no reason to use Heat Extend when I wrote that.
 
Anyone know what Bedmans Fighting style is going to be like?
He looks awesome but, have no idea how he works
Bedman-ggxrd-artwork.png
 
isnt he a projectile set-up character?
 
Maybe, I saw a video of him and I can't make heads or tails of it.

Edit:Kongk4 is that what those floating things he makes are/do?
if so, that would explain a lot actually
 
He seems to want to play a safe spacing game until he can get a knock down and use either bed de ja vu or teleport head throw to get in.

He's interesting. He's got four moves. Head throw which acts like a boomerang. Head throw which teleports him if it hits the opponent (slow start up). Bed slam which is amazing but can be anti-aired. And, where he turns into a tornado. After doing any of them, he places a mark which can be destroyed but it allows him to redo that move from that point with better start-up and recovery which creates some awesome mix-ups like fake jump-in > immediate low once tele head hits(watch any video with him attacking someone in a corner).

He has an 8 way double jump for lack of a way to describe it, but doesn't have a traditional air dash. He jumps, hovers in the air for a second, and can "dash" in any of the 8 directions from there.

He has no traditional forward dash either. Instead he goes into recovery frames and "parries" a move which instantly teleports him to the opponent. Punishable so it isn't used for movement.

6hs teleports forward a little bit before striking. Has invuln frames and can cross-up through the opponent.

Those are his more interesting mechanics.
 
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