HATRED

[SanoBaron]

 

[Ruin]

ultimately I think that the game is stupid because it's not really making a statement about gaming beyond "lmao people get so offended"
there's no substance beyond shallow hyperviolence
you gotta make something that make you feel something more complex
not necessarily something particularly artsy or deep
but something that makes you need a second to process what just happens
and go
"What the fucking hell was that bullshit"
Like take Drakengard for example. it's a game that set out to deconstruct the lack of emotions that is generally held by gamers when tearing through large swathes of enemies.
Drakengard is a gigantic piece of shit game but it does what it does with such purpose and fervor that it's hard not to appreciate the intention behind the shitwall.
All emotionless killing will get you is an unsatisfying end
an unsatisfying end that involves collecting every weapon in the game then unlocking the final boss which is a rhythm hell battle with an elder god over Tokyo and the only reward you get for that is getting shot down by japanese military and impaled on tokyo tower
that's the kind of shit you get when you make a game with purpose
you get impaled on tokyo tower after accomplishing absolutely nothing

 

[Humdinger]

Well I mean the influence from various public shootings is pretty blatant tbh lets not dance around it. I think pretty intelligent to commercialize such controversy, given current events. The game basically markets itself and dresses up public shootings with an extreme degree of irony and snark.

On the opposite side of the coin...Idk how tasteful it is given said events even if it is satirical in nature. And Arcana may have a point...at least when it comes to very young children and people who can't distinguish between fiction and reality. Much like other violent games that already exist.

So, brilliant, yet highly problematic for obvious reasons?

 

[gold163]

ultimately I think that the game is stupid because it's not really making a statement about gaming beyond "lmao people get so offended"
there's no substance beyond shallow hyperviolence
you gotta make something that make you feel something more complex
not necessarily something particularly artsy or deep
but something that makes you need a second to process what just happens
and go
"What the fucking hell was that bullshit"

But what if the entire point of the game is to make fun of the idea that games should even try to make people feel something? Someone on the last page mentioned that the game is so stupidly over-the-top that the fact that it takes itself so seriously is hilarious. What if the entire point of Hatred is to provide this pretense, say "lmao people get so offended", and then go back to being a game instead of somehow injecting something that could possibly be construed as "meaningful"?

Like, what if the whole game is just, you boot it up, and it's just "Fuck it, I know why you're here, let's shoot everybody, I don't give a shit". I mean yeah that's stupid but it's my kind of stupid.

Well I mean the influence from various public shootings is pretty blatant tbh lets not dance around it.

Please, by all means. I want to know what these influences are; I've never heard of them. I hope you're not going to say video games.

I feel like the idea that the game is addressing the idea of public mass violence with any degree of subtlety or intention to the point of being ironic or snarky is already reading too deep. Maybe it's just a big, dumb violent game, and it revels in that fact.

 

[Φ]

Well I mean the influence from various public shootings is pretty blatant tbh lets not dance around it. I think pretty intelligent to commercialize such controversy, given current events. The game basically markets itself and dresses up public shootings with an extreme degree of irony and snark.

On the opposite side of the coin...Idk how tasteful it is given said events even if it is satirical in nature. And Arcana may have a point...at least when it comes to very young children and people who can't distinguish between fiction and reality. Much like other violent games that already exist.

So, brilliant, yet highly problematic for obvious reasons?

Shouldn't parents keep watch on what their kids play? I mean, that's what ratings are for n such. Everything else I agree with, though.

 

[ChexGuy]

Shouldn't parents keep watch on what their kids play? I mean, that's what ratings are for n such. Everything else I agree with, though.

Ratings have kind of gone through the window with the (very significant) presence of digital distribution.

 

[SanoBaron]

then digital distribution needs to get it's act together.
Steam requires that I put my birthday on some games, make it mandatory for everything.
parents need to stop letting the PC/console be the babysitter for their kids and monitor them on what they're playing.

 

[Squigly Lines]

if I wanted a game where I could wantonly slaughter tons of people without a care in the world
I would just play God of War

Fixed.

 

[chickenwithtie]

It's just a politically incorrect goat simulator. You play it for a while, you laugh for a bit, then you close it and never touch it again.

 

[Ruin]

But what if the entire point of the game is to make fun of the idea that games should even try to make people feel something? Someone on the last page mentioned that the game is so stupidly over-the-top that the fact that it takes itself so seriously is hilarious. What if the entire point of Hatred is to provide this pretense, say "lmao people get so offended", and then go back to being a game instead of somehow injecting something that could possibly be construed as "meaningful"?

Like, what if the whole game is just, you boot it up, and it's just "Fuck it, I know why you're here, let's shoot everybody, I don't give a shit". I mean yeah that's stupid but it's my kind of stupid.

The idea that a game can't be a game and still provide an interesting experience is one of the most moronic things that pollutes modern mindset about gaming.
There are plenty of games that are just games, but if a game attempting to provide a meaningful experience or trying to convey an interesting message is somehow a turn-off then what of other media outlets?
Yeah there are movies that have interesting plots and characters but there's really no need for anything like that when you have booby explosion fests
yeah there are books that do interesting things by playing with the reader's expectations, but we really don't need those when you've got not-so-thinly veiled pornography right there on the shelf

Now, I'm not saying that every game ever has to try and be a deep and meaningful experience
fuckin' hell, one of my least favorite games ever is from a series that I think has NO business trying to weave a game that expounds a deeper message (and any of y'all who know what I'm talking about also know that I'll go off on a huge tangent how shit I think that game is)
but the idea that "games should just be games" is part of what is seriously holding back video games from being taken as a serious medium for creating interesting content. There's a ton of interesting ideas that can only be realized by having them be created in a video game medium and a lot of them are just gameplay ideas that no one ever seriously pursued
others are deconstructive or subversive themes that can only exist due to the history, iconic figures, and mindsets that games have built up in its consumers
I want plenty of games to just be games
but I don't want a game that's just a game at the expense of games that try to be something more.

Fixed.

you come into my home and do this to me on this, the day that I came here to meow at you

 

[Humdinger]

I mean some kids can take that kind of stuff...and that should be up to parents and responsible adults...but not all adults are responsible..nor do all adults 100% know what their kid is thinking or what is going on. And, additionally some kids are pretty good at smuggling stuff in without their parents knowing. I know I was at that age. And that's not to say violence triggers all people to yet more violence...but rather that there are certain people who probably shouldn't play the game.

So, the let's call it "human factor" makes things particularly difficult from all sides.

 

[gold163]

People are going to play violent games regardless of what parents want. I spent years in middle school thinking I was hot shit for hiding copies of MGS2 and DMC from my Mom under my bed. Actually if a parent is too restrictive about something it might end up having the opposite effect. See: sex, drugs, booze. What matters is that parents feel responsible for shaping their child's worldview so that they eventually grow up to be self-sufficient adults. Of course with all the moralizing and finger-pointing that shit doesn't happen. Most kids aren't the idiots that childless moral crusaders make them out to be, but they do need to be pointed in the right direction.

It's just a politically incorrect goat simulator. You play it for a while, you laugh for a bit, then you close it and never touch it again.

But what if it's fun?

but the idea that "games should just be games" is part of what is seriously holding back video games from being taken as a serious medium for creating interesting content. There's a ton of interesting ideas that can only be realized by having them be created in a video game medium and a lot of them are just gameplay ideas that no one ever seriously pursued
others are deconstructive or subversive themes that can only exist due to the history, iconic figures, and mindsets that games have built up in its consumers
I want plenty of games to just be games
but I don't want a game that's just a game at the expense of games that try to be something more.

Fair enough, but I'm not arguing that "games should just be games" either. It's more like, "games that just want to be games should have the freedom to just be games". I don't believe that the modern industry is at any lack of what it needs to create interesting content. Furthermore I don't believe that the existence of a game like Hatred is at the expense of games that try to be something more. If some idiot assumes all on their own that games are not worth taking seriously because of some trivial or petty reason, that's on them -- nothing games can do will ever change that. If anything, the idea that games like Hatred are stupid and therefore holding games back, is what's holding games back. If anything, the idea that anything is stopping anybody from creating the game that they want to (unless you're Hatred) stifles creativity.

If you ask me, the things stopping games from creating interesting content are the same things that stop any medium from producing interesting content -- the pretense of importance, the need to seek validation from outside the medium, and the fact that funding a unique idea is risky to downright career-suicidal. These are not problems that are caused by the content of the games themselves, but by the people who have appointed themselves cultural gatekeepers.

 

[Squigly Lines]

"Violent video games don't turn kids into sociopaths, only how they could have been brought up or had issues from the start can become sociopaths."

 

[Ruin]

but what if they were brought up on video games???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Fedora_Ninja]

Oh wow the NYPD logo had to be censored. I'd probably play the game just to take the "FUCK NEW YOUR" joke to the next level but that's probably it.

If the sense of progression is to see how far you can get in killing the most and seeking the most brutal death, it's probably gonna get old for me. The shock of the trailer was only effective the first time. After that it's more like "eh, I've seen more graphic shit than that."

 

[SanoBaron]

but what if they were brought up on video games???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

it was mario all along!
that italian bastard!

 

[Squigly Lines]

but what if they were brought up on video games???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I have yet to come across a person who honestly believed a kid's life will be influenced by all the experiences they had playing Grand Theft Auto: Mainly randomly running over people, blowing sh:)t up, and getting into police chases.

 

[Ruin]

yeah
you haven't
Y E T

 

[ChexGuy]

I have yet to come across a person who honestly believed a kid's life will be influenced by all the experiences they had playing Grand Theft Auto: Mainly randomly running over people, blowing sh:)t up, and getting into police chases.

I grew up thinking the rocket launcher from Doom was a wanton bowl. It profoundly affected the way I saw Chinese food because I would imitate the sound with my mouth every time I saw a wanton bowl on its side.

 

[gold163]

I mean some kids can take that kind of stuff...and that should be up to parents and responsible adults...but not all adults are responsible..nor do all adults 100% know what their kid is thinking or what is going on. And, additionally some kids are pretty good at smuggling stuff in without their parents knowing. I know I was at that age. And that's not to say violence triggers all people to yet more violence...but rather that there are certain people who probably shouldn't play the game.

So, the let's call it "human factor" makes things particularly difficult from all sides.

So assuming that it's true that video game violence directly causes some kids but not others to incite real-life violence, what's the solution? Not make violent games? Stop selling violent games?

Of course there are certain people who shouldn't play the game. There are also certain people who shouldn't drink alcohol, and certain people who shouldn't be allowed near children, but we don't ban alcohol nor do we ban children.

I grew up thinking the rocket launcher from Doom was a wanton bowl. It profoundly affected the way I saw Chinese food because I would imitate the sound with my mouth every time I saw a wanton bowl on its side.

I grew up having to put up with this; I can verify this story.

 

[Squigly Lines]

I grew up thinking the star fruit from Kingdom Hearts was a real fruit somewhere in the world. Still do.

 

[Humdinger]

So assuming that it's true that video game violence directly causes some kids but not others to incite real-life violence, what's the solution? Not make violent games? Stop selling violent games?

Of course there are certain people who shouldn't play the game. There are also certain people who shouldn't drink alcohol, and certain people who shouldn't be allowed near children, but we don't ban alcohol nor do we ban children.



I grew up having to put up with this; I can verify this story.

There is no real solution there tbh. This is society. I'm not saying to ban violent games or anything else...but rather that because of our diversity of thought and deed that certain outliers are a natural occurrence. No matter how unfortunate...

and I know of the data that says there are no links that was used in the defense of gaming as art thing from a few years ago...I know of fox news blaming dynasty warriors for a murder suicide...all that other stories that are basically sensationalist horseshit.

I'm fine, your fine...we all played violent stuff as kids...so that means we are all fine right? Well not really. I mean there was a rape case with like an eight year old who found mommy and daddy's pornography earlier in the year...Saw what was on the video and decided to try it out on his sister. What am I getting at? well obviously the pornography wasn't to blame (sarcasm btw).

It might be as obvious as saying the sky is blue...but yes, certain people should not play violent videogames. And obviously not all kids are stupid...and not all people are crazy...but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

 

[SanoBaron]

so, in other words, shit happens?

 

[Humdinger]

Essentially yeah. Werner effect causes humanity to worship tragedy...and then eternally repeat it whether consciously or unconsciously.

 

[gold163]

I'm fine, your fine...we all played violent stuff as kids...so that means we are all fine right? Well not really. I mean there was a rape case with like an eight year old who found mommy and daddy's pornography earlier in the year...Saw what was on the video and decided to try it out on his sister. What am I getting at? well obviously the pornography wasn't to blame (sarcasm btw).

But the implication you're making is unprovable. Unless you can prove that exposure to pornography causes child-on-child rape with some sort of statistic or psychological study I'm going to call bullshit on that because it's just one example. How many eight year olds watched porn and DIDN'T rape their sisters? Those are just assumptions you made, based on your preconceived notion that *some* child who views pornography *might* exercise their curiosity in a way that is harmful to another; that correlation implies causation. There is nothing we can do about the exceptions to the rule because statistically they are so rare and there is frequently no real link between them.

No, we are not "all fine", but that doesn't mean that prudishness would somehow save all of us from few of us. Unless you can devise some method of keeping violent video games out of the hands of only the certain people who "should not be playing them" (and who gets to decide that?), this is a meaningless conclusion.

 

[Squire Grooktook]

I think what he's trying to say is that yes, there are a few rare psycho's out there who could be set off by a game. But that doesn't mean you should just get rid of games, because in order to get rid of every possible thing that a psycho could be set off by, you'd have to completely demolish free expression, creativity, freedom of speech, free will in general. Such a world wouldn't be worth living in.

 

[Humdinger]

I mean the gaming as art thing was a movement in response to california's attempt to criminalize the distribution of m rated games following a series of deaths involving videogames. It ultimately was struck down...because they couldn't provide correlation for the causation. Even congress couldn't prove without a shadow of a doubt that violent videogames in turn cause violent behaviours.

And yet we do have the rogues who deviate from normal sets of behaviors...with regard to any type of stimulae from pornography or violence or anything else. I mean 10 out of 100 results of googling "videogame killing" will be complete sensationlist bollocks...but that 10 remains. Which recalls the werther effect I was talking about. The copycat suicide idea popularized after a play by goethe resulted in so many suicides that at one point it was banned in europe. Now one cannot prove that all those suicides were caused directly by viewing the play...and yet most of said suicides were dressed in the same manner as the tragic hero from the play..how odd for hundreds of people to wear bright yellow and pass away in the same manner as that character over and over again.

I should also note...that I'm not trying to police anyone nor change the way videogames are distributed. I'm not trying to give anyone advice on parenting their child or anything else. Nor is it my place to say such a thing because I can't prove that the monkey I gave dynamite to blew me up. The data is in your favor and I tire of arguing in circles with someone over a difference of opinion...That's all this is at this point. Taking apart minor pieces of what are essentially opinions.

I simply think that it is a fairly obvious conclusion that giving a crazy person or a kid (depending on the kid and what the parent thinks or judges ) a copy of a violent videogame/seven/bsm-porn/a gun/what have you is a bad thing. and it definitely varies from person to person because of the diversity of human personalities and neurosis. Ultimately parents and caretakers are responsible for this kind of thing and that does help but again outliers. Nothing is perfect. Like I can deal with gore. I understand that it is a videogame...to my knowledge I have never killed anyone. But not all people can...and you know I can't do anything about it...but I can still say it sucks. I guess that's the conclusion here. Everything sucks. But yah know...we can still enjoy videogames and stuff and try to be good to each other.

And yes withholding items can lead to the opposite result and make things worse..you see it in preachers kids and amish rumsinger...people formerly confined now allowed to run wild...and perhaps too wild. But ya know subjectivity. Humans are very diverse.

This is a videogame forum of a niche title involving waifus. So by nature most posts here are meaningless or at the very least so insignificant as to not matter in the grand scheme of things. Soooo.

 

[Muro]

I think what he's trying to say is that yes, there are a few rare psycho's out there who could be set off by a game. But that doesn't mean you should just get rid of games, because in order to get rid of every possible thing that a psycho could be set off by, you'd have to completely demolish free expression, creativity, freedom of speech, free will in general. Such a world wouldn't be worth living in.

That reminded me of a certain thing I haven't watched in forever.

 

[Humdinger]

And going back to the game..yeah the monologue in the trailer reads somewhere between real school shooter notes/ 90s comicbook / bad good action movie/ really bad teenage poetry about darkness and stuff. It reads like something someone who was really depressed would actually say...albeit dramatized.

I wasn't going to mention videogames in that context like at all.

It's actually is kinda cool in a way. Even if it wasn't intended to be looked into terribly deep.

I probably wouldn't play it..but I like the topdown thing it does on the indoor sections. Not so big on the people begging for mercy.

 

[PKStoopKid]

The game honestly has a boring premise and that's the defacto reason to why I wouldn't get it.Shooters are boring to me and I don't play them cause I don't feel they give me creative satisfaction (may only make sense to me). They don't help me get rid of stress and I rather spam Lady Of Slaughter for that. I feel the market is over saturated with this Hollywood type bullshit. Kids who shoot up schools don't need this to motivate them and like Marilyn Manson said, they need someone to listen to them cause they feel invisible. On that level I can relate, there have been times I needed to just feel visible to someone and even came here to achieve that a few times (but its the internet you'll still be invisible). But let's not fool ourselves and act like this won't be a driving force for someone out there to shoot up people. I doubt anyone will read this long as book I wrote but these disscussions could be avoided if we learn to empathize instead of desensitize people

 

[+5 Necromancer]

Soo I go around the street just to kill civilians?

...Sounds like one of my playthrough I did in Fallout 2. Exept in that game, I can make people melt away from my plasma shots and other cruel stuffs! Also, I can kill kids in that game >:D

 

[TechPowah]

I guess I should at least seriously give my two cents on the whole shebang this game is causing

I personally don't like or want to play the game <but that's more on it's merits of actually being a game>, but i'm not gonna tell them to tone it down or anything like that. If the game comes out and it gets blacklisted from, say, Steam, that's fine, but there is a point where someone has to put their foot down and defend the game's freedom of speech as far as it's rating allows. <Given there's no fucking way the game's walking away without an M rating, that's a pretty hard thing to go over unless it has something just so wrong that it has to be given an AO rating.>

Of course, i'm not defending what the game's actual content depicts <fuck that noise, i'm just as weirded out from the premise as the next guy>, but I say wait it out for something actually bad happens as a result of the game or it's creators before we take any serious action against it.

 

[Ravendeth]

TL;DR - I think any controversy is a load of bullshit. How useful have the news and critics been lately. I honestly don't see it as any different than banning books, for example.

I grew up absolutely steeped in violent games, and it made me a better person than the people I grew up around ever did. Games were are all that gave me honest perspective, in a senselessly violent world. I don't see how hiding anything from anyone, ever improves anything in this life. Anything that brings attention or awareness fulfills its purpose, as far as I am concerned. Why kill civilians? Why is this happening? Get it out there.

Spoiler: Extremely Long Version

I have a personal saying, "controversy is just whatever people aren't mature enough for".
Honestly, just the existence of controversy seems bizarre to me. This hyperdimensional object. One of those imaginary social constructs that bothers people. Why do people try to filter everything? How does ignoring/censoring anything, regardless of the perceived message or problem, help solve anything? Why does the conversation about any issue always focus on "should we be having this conversation?" Personally I think the answer is ALWAYS yes. Ignorance is not enlightening.

Some life story shit:
I was one of those almost feral kids, without a friend or parental figure to speak of. I grew up basically raised by movies, anime, and games, learning morals from them, learning empathy from them, as well as my emotional toolset and perspective. (alright so I learned to walk and tie my shoes from random kids, a videogame about that would have been damn helpful though)

I also went through my own HATRED phase, but honestly it was games, mostly violent games, that endowed me with the idea that anything in this world had purpose and reason. (People were of no help there, I didn't make a conversational friend until my final year of high school). The idea that the violence in this world had some story behind it, that people had motivations and feelings, instead of it just being something to push out of mind. Instead of the idea that we were all rabid dogs by nature, I could finally relate to people, imagine that. It made me think, and empathize, instead of thoughtlessly accepting the violence in the world.

All while watching people being disemboweled alive on a screen, since I was five years old. Hell, I'd say I see it less in videogames than other things, I think it's strange that ultraviolence is culturally acceptable in horror movies, or for whatever wars that are always going on, for example. I mostly just think it's strange that people depend on others, others trying to tell each other what's acceptable to begin with. Isn't it strange to have anyone telling you "don't talk about this?" I don't understand what people are trying to moderate, is it reality?

I would not even be in this community, I may not have even have had the strength to keep living, if Mortal Kombat wasn't the first game I'd ever laid hands and eyes on.

This is just my personal story, an anecdote, an opinion, so I don't know how useful it will be. Sorry for the rhetoric, sorry for the life story. It's unintentional, I have trouble with language, and tend to go on roundabout neurotic rants since I find it hard to relate. I am still pretty disassociated with people (faces make me uncomfortable for example), but I like to think I'm pretty accepting, pretty understanding, and laid back on a personal level. The friends I have now can ask me absolutely anything, and know that I won't judge them. I largely attribute that to the perspective games have given me.

Maybe someone will find this post disturbing, maybe it will get me in trouble (it's happened on other forums). Honestly I think it should be disturbing. People need to be reminded that violence, our society, and reality is disturbing. I think the media could use a kick in the ass like this, to get them to just look at themselves. Any medium is supposed to expand our awareness.

I will give a shit, no matter how much people tell me to turn a blind eye, or invent controversy that clouds the real issues.

If you want my opinion on the HATRED trailer, I think it's the right kind of interesting, it also gave me a good laugh. I'll probably give it a try to see what direction the presentation will go, even if cinematic kills are boring gameplay. Will there be endings with some moral message? the new "winners don't do drugs?" of our time?

If you want my opinion on what would help a society and culture that raises "monsters", look in the mirror.

Thanks for reading.

 

[ElementFree]

Soo I go around the street just to kill civilians?

...Sounds like one of my playthrough I did in Fallout 2. Exept in that game, I can make people melt away from my plasma shots and other cruel stuffs! Also, I can kill kids in that game >:D

Shame on you for not including the little dance people do when they get lit on fire in that game.
EDIT:

 

[chickenwithtie]

But what if it's fun?

Do you enjoy playing Skullgirls in training mode with the punchbag character on dummy jump mode? Maybe for hours? If yes, I guess this is the game for you.
And since we're at it, why not checking out other games that offer no challenge whatsoever?
Fez, Goat simulator, Gone Home?
Nothing can harm you, no one can challenge you, no puzzle can stop you. Pure fun!

 

[Denizen]

Man this game looks like it sucks ass.
I don't even care that it's in poor taste.

 

[chickenwithtie]

It's a boring game that will be remembered only for its controversy, exactly like Thrill Kill.

 

[Muro]

We should probably wait until the game is released before we state whether or not it provides a challenge. I see policemen in the trailer, I'd logically anticipate SWAT teams eventually going after you, maybe more (FBI, the military, Batman). I expect the game ends with you being shot rather than killing people until you get bored and alt+F4.

...Sounds like one of my playthrough I did in Fallout 2.

I had some of those, good times. Ain't an NPC in Fallout 1/2 I haven't killed at least once. Reminds me how disappointing the idea of introducing essential NPCs in F3 was.

I don't even want to kill that kid. Some NPCs and companions shun you + bounty hunters are a real pain. But just knowing I could smash it to bits any second is what brings in the immersion.

 

[+5 Necromancer]

Shame on you for not including the little dance people do when they get lit on fire in that game.

But, he does. And the one who melts melts, the one that get electruded turn into ashes. And the one being shot is being shot.

 

[ElementFree]

But, he does. And the one who melts melts, the one that get electruded turn into ashes. And the one being shot is being shot.

oh, well the only one animated on my screen is the vault dweller getting critted by a small arm.