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How do I Skullgirls

Airthrow/burst bait mixup is the only true burst bait mixup that i know of. And the only super solid one that ive seen is red savarins in actually play besides the exact same type of burst bait that an au dude named folks came up with years ago with filia.

He would do a burst air move and cancel with dash into airthrow for the throw mixup. Or he would do the burst move and dash cancel back for the burst bait.


These double baits will work the first time for sure if the opponent is conditioned to mash air tech, but they are timing beatable. The burst bait here is very early, and the airthrow is much slower.

Timing wise i dont think there is that much much of a mixup here. But visually, there is if you jump immediately and then immediately double jump and the airthrow. The effect being that you dont have to launch>delay jump>airthrow which telegraphs airthrow against good offline opponents. But can instead do launch>immediate jump (looks the exact same as the burst bait startup) double jump (this delays the airthrow because the double jump slows down the ascent of the first jump and allows hitstun to wear off while double is still jumping forward)
 
You have a decent PW air burst bait that isn't obvious?
 
Spencer said:
You have a decent PW air burst bait that isn't obvious?

Negative.

Her damage/resets are pretty crazy as it is though.
 
hlvn said:
  • PS3 pad is not a viable long-term solution. A PS1/PS2 controller + converter or something else needs to be available. Be sure to get a spare. You will probably not be this lucky again.
My personal recommendation is the Radio Shack 26-729. Unfortunately (AFAIK) they've been out of production for a while, so tracking one down may be challenging. However, they're so worth it.
 
hlvn said:
Negative.

Her damage/resets are pretty crazy as it is though.

Yeah, I love her ground reset like crazy... but I'd love it to not be so obvious when I air reset (we all know I'm going to air throw). I've had some luck fly canceling into j.hk, but it is a work in progress.
 
LordCeno said:
My personal recommendation is the Radio Shack 26-729. Unfortunately (AFAIK) they've been out of production for a while, so tracking one down may be challenging. However, they're so worth it.


No luck on googling it. Does yours work across PS3 and PC? Maybe 360?
 
hlvn said:
No luck on googling it. Does yours work across PS3 and PC? Maybe 360?
It works flawlessly for both PS3 and PC. I don't own a 360, so I've never bothered to check with that.
 
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LordCeno said:
It works flawlessly for both PS3 and PC.

I don't own a 360, so I've never bothered to check with that.

No worries, thanks for the input. (no pun intended)

If you get a chance to test it on a 360 setup at GU, please do and let me know. I'm always watchin' and cheerin' for a Painwheel. Or anyone in a position to make McPeanuts sad really. :)
 
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Double

Hits/Approaches I have:
  • j.HP > Fast fall > [low | throw]
  • PBGC L.Butt|Car (with or without DHC)
  • Eyes/Reads for airthrows
  • Tic Throw
  • Stray fugazis and lugers
  • Whatever's free based on movement/assist structures
Hits/Approaches I want:
  • j.MK > [j.HK Fastfall | j.HP]
  • j.LP [late jump-in | crossup]
  • Anti-air read HP Luger > OTG Conversion
  • Assist + Fleshstep Crossup
  • j.HK + Fleshstep Crossup
  • [j.LP | j.LK | j.MP] air-to-air fundamentals and conversions
  • Slide + Conversion
  • Corner j.LP air chain, jump out + j.LK, j.HK, land fleshstep/crossup somehow?
  • st.MP, c.HP as spacing/footsie tools
  • c.HK > empty/patient wakeup
Resets/Baits I have:
  • air string > crossunder|double-crossunder
  • barrel loop > throw after barrel
  • barrel loop > relaunch, j.LK, j.MK, falling airthrow
  • Sev's reset route
  • Sage/Negus burst setup thing
  • launch > j.LP, j.MP, j.HP > [Crossunder | Low | Throw]
Resets/Baits I want:
  • barrel loop > relaunch, j.LK, j.MK, falling [j.LP, j.MP conversion | j.HP conversion]



Valentine

Hits/Approaches I have:
  • Uhhhhh
  • PBGC EKG
Hits/Approaches I want:
  • (Corner, Blocking Lockdown) Backdash, double jump j.HP, j.HK [ADC > pressure]
  • Good working knowledge of st.HKx2 and j.HK
  • General air approaches
  • General ground pressure string options
  • When to tie off a pressure string with Dead Cross and when not to
  • When to air bypass and/or scalpels and when not to
Resets/Baits I have:
  • launch > j.LP, j.MP, j.HP (flings enemy overhead and back in front of Val)
  • simple [low | throw] setups from combo > j.MK instead of final chain.
Resets/Baits I want:
  • crossup [j.HP | j.LK] from anywhere on screen at any time no matter where they think they are


Painwheel

Hits/Approaches I have:
  • Fly around aimlessly fishing for j.MP
  • Randomly dash under bad jump-ins
  • Nails sometimes?
  • Ground string > charge st.HP > fly cancel j.MK because they're holding down-back for a mid move?
  • Scoping air throws from fly-canceled ground strings after opponent pushblocks
Hits/Approaches I want:
  • armor j.HP > Thresher (wakeup mash punish)
  • j.MP > Fastfall (2.j.MP maybe?)
  • j.MK fly j.MK crossup
  • stray j.HP or a2a j.MP,j.HP > Land > j.LP, j.LK, j.MK
  • [j.LP | j.LK] air to airs.
  • Satan's j.LP (hit) > charge st.HP
  • Satan's j.LP (block) > charge c.MP
  • j.LP, j.LK, j.MK fuzzies on larger characters
  • Really fast [fly j.LK | c.LK] mixups from c.LK. Domo is probably the best I've seen.
  • Pretty much anything that isn't fly > upback > wait
Resets/Baits I have:
  • what is a bait and why would you not do a full combo for 9-10K damage
Resets/Baits I want:
  • Taluda's st.MP, st.HK, fly j.HK crossunder
  • Taluda's launch, superjump9 j.MK (ambiguous crossup, but combos) j.HK > fly, j.HK [left | right]
 
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Spencer said:
You have a decent PW air burst bait that isn't obvious?

Yep. But ive been keeping it a secret... Sorry.
 
hlvn said:
If you get a chance to test it on a 360 setup at GU, please do and let me know.
I have a better option then that, but it'll take a few days.

hlvn said:
Or anyone in a position to make McPeanuts sad really. :)
Well, for what its worth, I may have made most of the GU SG crew sad when I said I might not be able to attend the Valentine's Day weekend GU tourney. See, I'm the only one of the regulars with a girlfriend. :PUN:
 
LordCeno said:
Well, for what its worth, I may have made most of the GU SG crew sad when I said I might not be able to attend the Valentine's Day weekend GU tourney. See, I'm the only one of the regulars with a girlfriend. :PUN:

oh shiyit
 
Valentine continues to be a hot/cold character for me.

She is either dead, or was a living trainwreck that crashed through the opposing team.
 
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hlvn said:
Valentine continues to be a hot/cold character for me.

She is either dead, or was a living trainwreck that crashed through the opposing team.
I think that's every Valentine player ever.
 
Double

Hits/Approaches I have:
  • j.HP > Fast fall > [low | throw]
  • PBGC L.Butt|Car (with or without DHC)
  • Eyes/Reads for airthrows
  • Tic Throw
  • Stray fugazis and lugers
  • Whatever's free based on movement/assist structures
Hits/Approaches I want:
  • j.MK > [j.HK Fastfall | j.HP]
  • j.LP [late jump-in | crossup]
  • Anti-air read HP Luger > OTG Conversion
  • Assist + Fleshstep Crossup
  • j.HK + Fleshstep Crossup
  • [j.LP | j.LK | j.MP] air-to-air fundamentals and conversions
  • Slide + Conversion
  • Corner j.LP air chain, jump out + j.LK, j.HK, land fleshstep/crossup somehow?
  • st.MP, c.HP as spacing/footsie tools
  • c.HK > empty/patient wakeup
Resets/Baits I have:
  • air string > crossunder|double-crossunder
  • barrel loop > throw after barrel
  • barrel loop > relaunch, j.LK, j.MK, falling airthrow
  • Sev's reset route
  • Sage/Negus burst setup thing
  • launch > j.LP, j.MP, j.HP > [Crossunder | Low | Throw]
Resets/Baits I want:
  • barrel loop > relaunch, j.LK, j.MK, falling [j.LP, j.MP conversion | j.HP conversion]



Valentine

Hits/Approaches I have:
  • Uhhhhh
  • PBGC EKG
Hits/Approaches I want:
  • (Corner, Blocking Lockdown) Backdash, double jump j.HP, j.HK [ADC > pressure]
  • Good working knowledge of st.HKx2 and j.HK
  • General air approaches
  • General ground pressure string options
  • When to tie off a pressure string with Dead Cross and when not to
  • When to air bypass and/or scalpels and when not to
Resets/Baits I have:
  • launch > j.LP, j.MP, j.HP (flings enemy overhead and back in front of Val)
  • simple [low | throw] setups from combo > j.MK instead of final chain.
Resets/Baits I want:
  • crossup [j.HP | j.LK] from anywhere on screen at any time no matter where they think they are


Painwheel

Hits/Approaches I have:
  • Fly around aimlessly fishing for j.MP
  • Randomly dash under bad jump-ins
  • Nails sometimes?
  • Ground string > charge st.HP > fly cancel j.MK because they're holding down-back for a mid move?
  • Scoping air throws from fly-canceled ground strings after opponent pushblocks
Hits/Approaches I want:
  • armor j.HP > Thresher (wakeup mash punish)
  • j.MP > Fastfall (2.j.MP maybe?)
  • j.MK fly j.MK crossup
  • stray j.HP or a2a j.MP,j.HP > Land > j.LP, j.LK, j.MK
  • [j.LP | j.LK] air to airs.
  • Satan's j.LP (hit) > charge st.HP
  • Satan's j.LP (block) > charge c.MP
  • j.LP, j.LK, j.MK fuzzies on larger characters
  • Really fast [fly j.LK | c.LK] mixups from c.LK. Domo is probably the best I've seen.
  • Pretty much anything that isn't fly > upback > wait
Resets/Baits I have:
  • what is a bait and why would you not do a full combo for 9-10K damage
Resets/Baits I want:
  • Taluda's st.MP, st.HK, fly j.HK crossunder
  • Taluda's launch, superjump9 j.MK (ambiguous crossup, but combos) j.HK > fly, j.HK [left | right]
 
Some notes on your Val stuff:

I actually like PBGC Scalpels more than EKG, and I see more people doing that. Tends to leave you in better position, seems to work more often, and you don't really need EKG's invincibility as a PBGC. EKG is better as just a raw super reversal, though.

General air approaches for me at least (which means you maybe shouldn't use them) are IAD -> some air normal (usually either mp or hp) and jump straight up (or forward at really long distance) -> j.hk -> see where opponent is. If in range that they'll be blocking the j.hk or if they're on the ground, ADC, normal, and start the party; if they're somewhere that you can't airdash -> normal onto them, just land.

General ground pressure string I use is something -> c.lk x 2 -> s.mp x 2 -> call assist on blolck. Easy hit confirms, an assist should give you time to position yourself well to continue pressure, s.mp is +1 on block, and there's about a million good throw spots in there (you're technically at -1 after c.lk, but people almost never hit buttons between c.lk and s.mp anyways and don't upback there either). Dead Cross tends to just be my "oh shit, I fucked up, I hope this makes it safe" button, or if someone is doing a really good job at pushblocking (in which case I'll sometimes toss in a s.hp after the mp, so it would go something like c.lk x 2 -> s.mp x 2 -> s.hp -> Dead Cross)
 
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The reason we usually do scalpels instead of ekg is because ekg might get hit by a late hit like a projectile or an assist, she still has a hurtbox during the move so if the opponent is backing up their agression with a slow assist you might get smacked in the face. Also I think the hitbox on scalpels is better so it would catch more options.

There are some times that ekg is good though, if you are in the corner and get a hit you reverse the pressure situation by tossing them into the corner.
 
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Cynical said:
Some notes on your Val stuff:

I actually like PBGC Scalpels more than EKG, and I see more people doing that. Tends to leave you in better position, seems to work more often, and you don't really need EKG's invincibility as a PBGC. EKG is better as just a raw super reversal, though.

Camail said:
The reason we usually do scalpels instead of ekg is because ekg might get hit by a late hit like a projectile or an assist, she still has a hurtbox during the move so if the opponent is backing up their agression with a slow assist you might get smacked in the face. Also I think the hitbox on scalpels is better so it would catch more options.

It's kind of situational. More often than not, I PBGC > EKG > Install, which is uncommon since you don't really see Vals + PW very often.

There are some times that ekg is good though, if you are in the corner and get a hit you reverse the pressure situation by tossing them into the corner.

Agreed.

It's also pretty nasty when that situation pivots from Val in the corner to Painwheel corner combo.

Even outside of the Install DHC, EKG as a DHC starter lets you control which side of their character your DHC comes in on (as well as how far away) which is really useful if you have another super in the back that lets you convert into a combo like cat-heads, gregor, SBO, etc.

Scalpels are still great, and I would definitely do it if I see an assist involved anywhere in their pressure to try and catch them both.
 
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hlvn said:
If you get a chance to test it on a 360 setup at GU, please do and let me know.
LordCeno said:
I have a better option then that, but it'll take a few days.
Okay, a DualShock 2 has now been tested on a 360 using my adapter. It... did not respond at all.
 
LordCeno said:
Okay, a DualShock 2 has now been tested on a 360 using my adapter. It... did not respond at all.

ah well, two out of three isn't bad.

i still have to find the damn thing online anyhow. >_<
 
If you're gonna pbgc EKG, at least call an assist to back it up. I use HP Lock n Load. If EGK hits, LnL smacks them in the middle of the super and I get a free 1.8k.
If blocked, the assist comes from off screen and val lands on the opposite side.
It's punishable by grab, but they won't know that the first time. They'll want to do a full combo and just get a bit counter hit fist from behind = 2.7k + 50 undizzy bonus.
 
Fedora_Ninja said:
If you're gonna pbgc EKG, at least call an assist to back it up. I use HP Lock n Load. If EGK hits, LnL smacks them in the middle of the super and I get a free 1.8k.
If blocked, the assist comes from off screen and val lands on the opposite side.
It's punishable by grab, but they won't know that the first time. They'll want to do a full combo and just get a bit counter hit fist from behind = 2.7k + 50 undizzy bonus.

Can you call an assist with your super input?
 
Outlaw_Spike's Val point+assist hit confirm conversion to doublesnap.

Universal for both characters, Corner. Tested on Pea/Bella/PW in all combinations, and Squigly/Double.

ground string confirm > launch > j.HK, H.Bypass > OTG/Land > st.LK, st.MPx2, Snap
 
The thing that mpgame does at 2:05, the jab to start pressure after Duckator's Flesh Step during Catheads... is that actually safe to do?
 
Cynical said:
The thing that mpgame does at 2:05, the jab to start pressure after Duckator's Flesh Step during Catheads... is that actually safe to do?

Looked pretty situational.
 
If you want to learn crazy corner pressure with val+hornet bomber you can check out duck vs me in his archive, most of those games were me getting fucked by corner set ups. s.hp is surprisingly good in this area.
 
hlvn said:
Casuals with NCV, notes tomorrow

Sorry for an offtopic necropost. What is this 1 meter move from Noah at 1:03? Looks like an empowered version of f.HP. It's just that I had no idea this special existed until now.
 
that's a double snap. (or maybe it's just a snap, snap back? one of those)

you do qcf tag
 
Sergeoff said:
Sorry for an offtopic necropost. What is this 1 meter move from Noah at 1:03? Looks like an empowered version of f.HP. It's just that I had no idea this special existed until now.

Outtake. Every character has one.

qcf+MP+MK or qcf+HP+HK
 
hlvn said:
Outtake. Every character has one.
qcf+MP+MK or qcf+HP+HK
I can't believe I'm that stupid, wow. It a) dealt no damage and b) retired PW.
Now that I think of it, it was a great decision. Assist characters caught in their filthy assisting act recieve more damage, right?
Stuff said:
that's a double snap. (or maybe it's just a snap, snap back? one of those)
you do qcf tag
Sorry again, but what exactly is a double snap? I've seen plenty of videos using that phrase and I still don't get the meaning of it.
 
Sergeoff said:
I can't believe I'm that stupid, wow. It a) dealt no damage and b) retired PW.
Now that I think of it, it was a great decision. Assist characters caught in their filthy assisting act recieve more damage, right?

Sorry again, but what exactly is a double snap? I've seen plenty of videos using that phrase and I still don't get the meaning of it.

Double-snap is a term from MvC2/MvC3 where you hit both of their characters on screen with a Snapback. It effectively works the same for Skullgirls' Outtake attacks.

If you hit both of them and are close enough to a corner, it knocks their point character out but leaves the assist on screen in an uncontrolled state, so they can't tech or do anything which means you effectively get a free infinite on that character. The combos tend to do more damage because you can do combos that wouldn't normally work due to IPS/Undizzy limitations, and since the character isn't blocking, you can uncombo and reset scaling often.
 
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Sergeoff said:
Sorry again, but what exactly is a double snap? I've seen plenty of videos using that phrase and I still don't get the meaning of it.
Double Snap is snapping out point+assist at the same time. If you do it close to the corner, the assist char is going to stay in, and you can combo it.
Infinites, things that aren't actually combos but have the opponent recover midair, etc - all work as the opponent can't actually act with their assist character;
Meaning that this is a character kill. Here are some examples:
 
hlvn said:
If you hit both of them and are close enough to a corner, it knocks their point character out but leaves the assist on screen in an uncontrolled state, so they can't tech or do anything which means you effectively get a free infinite on that character, and the combos tend to do more damage because you can do combos that wouldn't normally work due to uncombo/IPS limitations.
IsaVulpes said:
Double Snap is snapping out point+assist at the same time. If you do it close to the corner, the assist char is going to stay in, and you can combo it.
Infinites, things that aren't actually combos but have the opponent recover midair, etc - all work as the opponent can't actually act with their assist character;
Meaning that this is a character kill. Here are some examples:
Big thanks for the answers! One OTG per combo rule also becomes irrelevant, I presume?
Wow-wow-wow. Those look ultra-cheap. Double snaps aren't something that will get patched out any time soon, right?
 
Sergeoff said:
Big thanks for the answers! One OTG per combo rule also becomes irrelevant, I presume?
Wow-wow-wow. Those look ultra-cheap. Double snaps aren't something that will get patched out any time soon, right?

No, it was a conscious decision to put them in the game.

If you double snap, you get another OTG on the assist character as they bounce off the wall. In solo vs. solo or if they're down to their last character, you get another OTG.
 
Thanks a lot, I had no idea OTG system is flexible like that.
Should I delete my posts? They're hardly relevant.
 
Sergeoff said:
Thanks a lot, I had no idea OTG system is flexible like that.
Should I delete my posts? They're hardly relevant.

It's all good. :)
 
theorycraftan

[1] (corner) string > launch > j.HP, ADC j.MP, j.HP
[2] jump away j.LK, j.MK > ADC airthrow > scalpels
[3] falling j.MP (135 undizzy)
[4] st.LP, c.HP (180 undizzy)
[5] j.HK, Bypass (230 undizzy!)
[6] ground chain > vial

gllt confirmed spin:
cLKx1 cHP
jHP ADC jMPx1 jHP
bjLK (full~ish) jMKx2 ADC AirThrow Scalpels jMP
sLP cHP
jHK, HBypass
sMP, sHKx2 > Lvl1PoisonVial > EKG
 
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Tried to lab out some painwheel stuff and learn the older routes, and generally bored myself out of enjoying the character.

So as it is, I have a Double and need to find another character or two that I like.

Head-on Fortune feels good to move around with, I love PBGC/Reversal fibers, and she seems to work okay with Double, but I don't really see myself getting having fun with her in the long-term unless I get much much much better at her pressure. I don't really know that she has a lot going for her outside of her head-off pressure, and it's very boring to me.

Don't really think I grasp Val's spacing/tools very well. Grinding games with her and watching other/better Vals is not helping me understand it any better either.

Tried Filia and Parasoul, and I don't think they're for me.

So Bella, Peacock, Squigly, and future DLC characters are on the table.
 
hlvn said:
Don't really think I grasp Val's spacing/tools very well. Grinding games with her and watching other/better Vals is not helping me understand it any better either.

But did you have fun with her?

Also where da BB love
 
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