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How to beat Marie?

Got her again! jLK -> jHP -> dash -> jLK -> jHP (Peck and Sting? Sun Kick?) is remarkably effective depending on how much the AI wants to hate you that day. So, Boat -> Butcher to get close, and that air combo when she's in a corner. I was even able to trigger her IPS once! This also connects when Marie goes to second form if she goes hiding in a corner. I still have trouble accidentally airdashing over Marie in the first phase, as well as the occasional random superjump. I'm getting better at the light hops over her second phase, though, which are handy.

Third phase is still nasty and, depending on how mobile Marie's feeling, an absolute killer. Once again I ran out of meter right before the last hit; thankfully, I was able to get in a stray jHK.

So, luck is still a factor, as is telling when Marie'll send a skelly horde so I can boat through it.

[Edit] Accidentally typed jLP instead of jLK.

Also, for my own testing on phase 2: cHK -> L Osiris -> sLK -> cMK -> cHK. Initial testing says it should loop. This will be interesting...
 
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More progress! When closing the distance, Upper Khat -> Super Jump is nifty for clearing skellies and getting Marie to miss at the same time.

Gator-> Boat was too slow for me to reliably practice and loop on Marie. "Sun & Kick" is still disturbingly effective, though, so that's okay.

3rd phase is still nasty, but this method preserves more meter and health for facing it. The screen pretty much instantly fills with painful interruptions, Sekhmet's easy to grab, and Marie loves flying across the stage to avoid your axes.

There is still a luck element to the first couple phases, specifically how often Marie wants to grab, standing skelley up close, or diag skull train. Still... Progress!

Behold, the Beauty and Grace of Progress!

Beauty and Grace.jpg
 
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It is impossible to full skip Nightmare Marie with Cerebella.

Maybe I'll make a vid to explain why I think this
I hate every one on this planet.jpg
is not improvable.
Maybe. If anyone cares.

Now, excuse me, I need to go in the corner and be depressed.
I hate everyone on this planet.
 
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Still, talk about aiming for Beowulf and landing next to Annie. That's pretty awesome. Well done, anyway!
 
It's doable in ridiculous difficulty.
Doesn't even require the uber hard badass combo I spent so much time crafting...
 
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Fun observation: "Diamonds are Forever"- Cerebella's Lvl 3- is blocked by Marie's standing skele-bombs. Diamond Deflector? Not so much. Unfortunately, I'm not set up for recording it, otherwise I'd have a video of it.
 
I guess I should make a text wall for that vid too uh?
Everything took place in retail, to give me the best chance without some stupid damage nerfs.
stun : copter dynamo

small combo :
j.lk j.mp j.hp
j.lp j.mp j.hk
j.mp j.hk
s.hp run stop
j.lk j.mp j.hp
j.lp j.lk j.mk j.hp (Yes, I failed in the video and wrote j.hk. Typo...)
This combo is optimized with a 25 damage error margin. It does the max damage possible while letting me re-stun Marie afterwards right before she get to 2nd phase health territory.

restun is the usual :
j.lk j.mp j.hk
j.lp (stun, start of the uber combo)

Uber combo :
j.lp j.lk j.mk j.hp (j.mk does 75 more damage than j.mp)
s.lp x2 s.mp c.hp
j.hp j.hp (2 frame link)
c.hp (2 frame link again)
double jump (see this vid for those who don't know about it) (necessary else follow up whiffs)
j.mp j.mk j.hp (he hardest part here is to time the j.mk j.hp correctly to be as low as possible, while the height at which you are when doing j.mp differs from a try to another)
s.mk s.hp run stop
j.lk j.mp j.hk
s.hk run stop
s.lp x2 (3 frame link) s.mk s.hp run stop
s.lk s.mk s.hp run stop
JUMP BACK
j.lp j.lk j.mp (j.hp will whiff. You could use it by holding it a bit for a small glide, but you would lose all the benefit of the jump back)
micro dash (Plink with lp-hp macro) s.mp (3rd phase health limit reached) s.hk (long enough for Marie to still be in hitstun when the shockwave comes, 78 frames after s.mp hit)
(shochwave) deflector (the projectile does damage to Marie every frame it's on contact with her, so being far makes it do like 2000 damage or something)
dynamo

Stuff I tried :
- It is not possible to time the deflector so that the physical hit doesn't hit Marie (deflecting during the 7 frames of startup will make the physical hit not come out, did you know that?). Which means IPS won't allow to link copter or devil horns afterwards (the deflect projectile is not considered the same as deflector physical hit by IPS). But with my setup, you only get 15f of advantage, so you can't link any special anyway...
- instead of jump back, doing jump neutral j.lp j.lk j.mp j.hp s.mp titan knuckle devil horns doesn't do more damage.
- I tried pretty much every combo route, didn't find anything better
- it has to be micro dash s.mp and not s.mk, else the physical hit of deflector will hit marie, but the shockwave won't hit bella so not deflect (how is that even possible, how small is that shockwave?!)

Except that, I guess all the time required for this to happen went into heavy testing.
 
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Again, this was done on sleepwalk difficulty because I was looking to find ways to ToD against Marie without getting hit. So these are experiments at moment. Thanks to @dragonos451 as always for coaching and hints.
 
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...
I know it's not very relevant, but I wanted to share.
I just made an approximation of the number of tries I did on Marie to make the full skip video.
...
I wasn't expecting 7 600 tries. Plus random testing here and there.

Ouch.
 
imo, filia is one the chars who have the most potential to make it happen.
She can combo after her airball, maybe after her beta drill maybe (someone check that for me please), she has so many multi hits, I know that she has a reliable way to stun nightmare Marie from round start, she can combo into her lvl3 against Marie (bella can't, one of the reasons why bella can't do the nightmare full skip), she can easily do a IPS optimized combo on Marie.

About that last point, it's so easy I could create one right there without maining filia (lul euphemism), doesn't even need to test against Marie :

stuff into stun into max damage air chain (seems to be j.lp j.mp j.hp j.hk)
s.lpx2 s.lk c.mp c.mk s.hp
j.hk H airball dash cancel
s.hp
iad j.hp j.hk
c.mk s.hp
iad j.mkx2 j.hp
j.mp j.mkx1 j.hp j.hk
c.mp c.mk s.hp
(slightly delayed) iad j.lp j.mkx1 j.hk
s.lk c.mp c.mk s.hp
(slightly delayed) iad j.lk j.mkx1 j.hk
s.lpx2 s.lk c.mp c.mk s.hk (if shockwave happens at that moment, s.hk should make it whiff) hairball lvl3 (with all the multi hits, should be up)
 
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dragonos451 said:
snip
Working on Val next. I remember having some cheesy combo for her and doing HP>Bypass HK to dodge her servents and interrupt her shadow attacks on the second form.

The cheesy combo is j.HP>j.HK>dash>j.MP and repeat that sequence. That's all I have for now. This will also motivate me to re-do her speedrun as well.
 
6-Let said:
Working on Val next.
Well look at what I was writing when you posted your answer.

I was bored (in fact, I am just insane, please incarcerate me) :

valentine :
j.lp j.lkx1 j.mkx2 j.hkx2
s.lpx3 c.lkx2 s.mpx2 c.mk c.hp
DJ j.hp adc j.hp
c.hp
DJ j.hkx2 adc j.mkx2 j.hp
s.mk c.hp
DJ j.mpx1 j.mkx2 j.hkx2
s.mpx2 c.mk c.hp
iad j.lk j.hkx2
c.lkx2 s.mpx2 c.mk c.hp
iad j.lp j.hkx2
s.lpx3 c.lkx2 s.mpx2 c.mk
s.hp (to make shockwave whiff)
H bypass scalpel

DJ is for double jump (or short jump cancel). I admit it looks very ugly, but I don't think a good val should have too much trouble doing it.

Air bypasses don't allow combos on Marie unfortunately, nor does air scalpel
 
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Also (double post because I don't give a fuck) :
@GN4RK finally told me how to stun marie with filia from round start.
iad j.hp j.hk H airball.
After recover, forward jump j.mp j.hp j.hk to restun into combo.

If a filia or a val wants to become the first person to full skip nightmare Marie, I'll be there.
 
6-Let said:
Again, this was done on sleepwalk difficulty because I was looking to find ways to ToD against Marie without getting hit. So these are experiments at moment. Thanks to @dragonos451 as always for coaching and hints.
Amusing how the Skullheart disintegrates at the end.
 
Muro said:
Amusing how the Skullheart disintegrates at the end.
Does the same after a 2nd phase skip. As a full skip skips 2nd phase (duh), it does it too.

Also, fun (if you like science) stuff :
if pre-combo is full optimized, you need 21 000 damage +-200 to get to the 3rd phase health limit in your full combo.
Bella reaches it around the last hit of last air chain.
Filia reaches it on the first hit of the 2nd chain before last...
shockwave probably easily avoidable with a s.hp jump back delay airdash forward j.lp j.hp j.hk into end of the combo.

I want a good filia doing this now. She better be able to record in good quality.


Interesting how much you can know without even testing it, when you know what to look for. Only did tests on big band, and I'm 100% sure the combo works, it's easy for that level of optimization, and I already know its damage.
Now I could record a sample chain and count frames to know which normals to throw in before the s.hp into jump back to make the shockwave whiff.
I'll do that later.

Why can't you guys have some of my fun? Join me, you got a prime opportunity to get some fame and pride. All you need is a decent execution with filia and the will necessary to fight Marie for a few dozens of hours. @GN4RK 's will is too weak, I need someone else.
Vals are welcome too. Other chars maybe, but I'll need time to craft the combo.
 
I hate myself.

parasoul :

j.lk j.mk j.hp L air tear toss
s.lpx2 s.mkx2 c.hp egret cancel
(jump forward) instant j.hp L tear toss j.hp
(jump BACK) instant j.mk j.hp
s.hpx2 L tear shot
s.mkx2 (~5f link because setup power) c.hp
(jump forward) air L tear toss j.hk
(jump forward) j.lk j.d.mk j.hp j.hk
(jump forward) j.lp j.d.mk j.hp j.hk
c.mp s.hpx2 L tear shot
s.lpx2 s.mkx2 s.hpx2 L tear shot
s.lkx2 s.mkx2 s.hpx2 pillar lvl3
45620 damage
 
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Am I seriously going to learn a new char to get that full skip?!

Fortune : (easiest combo crafting ever, resulting combo is easiest ever too)
j.lk j.hp j.hk M el gato
s.lpx2 s.lk s.mp s.mk s.hk L fiber
j.hk adc j.hk M el gato
s.hk M fiber
j.hp j.hk
c.hp
iad j.mk j.hk
s.mk s.hk L fiber
j.mp --> j.mk j.hk
s.mp <-- s.mk s.hk L fiber
j.lk j.mk j.hk
s.lk s.mp s.mk s.hk L fiber
j.lp j.mk j.hk
s.lpx2 s.lk s.mp s.mk s.hk H rekka super
44,440 damage. Japan would call it the "death combo".

Damage on that combo is stupid, if pre-combo is optimized we reach the 3rd phase health limit somewhere between the arrows.
Which made me create in advance the shockwave-avoiding tech. Follow up with a full ground chain should be enough to get the kill.

lol full skip with 2 unnecessary chains wtf is this char
 
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no clue about marie but if shes scales normally s.hp always does more damage than s.hk
 
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no damage scaling at all.
No meter scaling either.
s.hp 1000 damage.
s.hk 1250.
Number of hits is not an issue.

I find your lack of faith disturbing. But at least you showed a sliver of interest :^)
 
FUKUA :
j.lp j.mk j.hp j.hk air fireball
s.lkx2 c.mk s.hp
j.hk j.hp
s.hp
DJ j.hp j.hk j.hp
c.mk s.hp
j.mk j.hk j.hp
s.mp s.hp
DJ j.mpx3 j.hp j.hk air fireball
s.lkx2 c.mk s.hp
j.lp j.hk --> j.hp
j.lk j.mk <-- j.hp j.hk L fireball
s.lp s.lk c.mk s.hp H drill drill super

again, point at which 3rd phase health limit is reached is somewhere between the arrows.



ELIZA : (edited to go with the "only one L spiral link per combo" update)
jLK jMP jMK jHP
sLPx3 sMKx2 sHPx3 LMH upper khat
LMH upper khat
jHP adc jMP jHP
sMKx2 sHPx3 LMH upper khat
IAD jMK jHP
cMPx2 sHPx3 LMH upper khat
IAD jLK jHP
sLK sMKx3 sHPx3 LMH upper khat
L spiral
sLPx3 sMKx3 sHPx3 LMH upper khat
dive kick summon
lvl3


couldn't use j.hk or sekh or j.lp, the combo is way less optimized than others characters, but it still does a bazillion damage, more than most chars...
Don't even need the upper khat TK jump cancels, it does way enough damage.



Now to work on the chars I have no idea how their combos work...
 
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• With P stance charged (you can charge during SBOs during precombo, 2 SBOs are necessary without dropping combo
j.lp j.mk all hits j.hk all hits M divekick
s.lpx2 s.mp s.hk
DJ j.hk H divekick
SBO
j.hp
s.hk stancel
s.mp s.hk
DJ forward delay j.mp j.hp
c.hp stancel
c.mk c.hp stancel
j.mkx3 j.hk M divekick
j.lp j.mkx3 j.hk M divekick
j.lk j.mkx2 j.hp
seria drag'n'bite
s.lkx2 s.mp c.hp arpeggio
s.lpx2 s.mp c.hp drag'n'bite SBO (+additional SBO?)

43231 damage (or 45106 if additonal SBO)


• P charge, not enough meter for early SBO :
j.lp j.mk all hits j.hk all hits M divekick
s.lpx2 s.mp c.hp stancel
s.hp stancel
j.mkx3 j.hk M divekick
j.lp j.mkx3 j.hk M divekick
j.lk j.mkx2 j.hk M divekick
s.mp c.hp stancel
c.hk seria DnB
s.lkx2 s.mp s.hk
DJ forward delay j.mp j.hp
c.mk s.hp arpeggio
s.lpx2 s.mp c.hp DnB SBO (or LVL3?)


• if no stance charge :
j.lp j.mk all hits j.hk all hits M divekick
s.lpx2 s.mp s.hk
DJ j.hk H dive kick x2 SBO
j.hp
s.hk
DJ j.mk j.hk
s.mp s.hk
DJ j.lk j.mkx1 j.hp
arpeggio
s.lkx2 s.mp s.hk
DJ j.mp j.hp
micro dash c.mk s.hk
DJ j.lp j.mkx1 j.hp
c.hp arpeggio
s.lpx2 s.mp c.hp DnB SBO (LVL3?)
(lul you don't want to have to do that one, double jump links are obnoxious)


her combo is obnoxious because of multiple double jumps, and I would need to know her meter after precombo to fully craft it, but a single lvl2 does 8000 damag to marie, plus the stuff you do during it, so I think she should be able to pull it out...

Notes :
j.lkx3 j.mkx2 j.hp
s.lpx2 s.mkx2 s.hk
DJ j.hp j.hk
s.hk
DJ j.mkx1 j.hpx1 j.hk
(if lowest height, j.mkx2 j.hpx3 possible,
but will happen rarely and less damage anyway)
s.mkx2 s.hk
DJ j.mpx? j.hk
c.mp s.hk
DJ j.lkx3 j.mkx2 j.hp
s.lk s.mkx2 s.hp
DJ blah blah stuff

H item drop lvl2
H bomber
s.hp H bomber
stuff
probably a second lvl2


j.lp j.lk j.mk j.hpx4
s.lp s.lk s.mk s.hk H nail (yup, that links)
fly cancel [8] j.hp
s.hk H nail
fly cancel [8] j.lk j.hp
j.mk j.hp
fly cancel [8] j.lp j.lk j.hp
s.mk s.hk H nail
fly cancel [8] j.hk
c.mp s.hk H nail lvl2
j.mp j.hp (yup, that links too, why, you find it stupid?)
s.lk s.mk s.hk H nail
fly cancel [2] j.lk (whiff)
s.lp s.lk s.mk s.hk L nail death crawl
36025 damage

Could be made easier and more damage if I knew if L nail works correctly on marie or not. If it does, instead of H nail lvl2 j.mp link, just go for L nail into j.mp, and the end of combo can be a lvl3


j.lk j.mp j.hk
s.lpx2 s.lk s.mp s.mk s.hpx1 SOID (hold)
argus agony
release item
j.hk adc j.hk
j.mk delay j.hk
j.hp adc j.mp j.mk
j.lk j.mp j.hk
j.lp j.lk j.hk
s.hpx1 SOID (hold)
argus
release item
s.mk s.hpx1 soid (no hold)
c.mp s.mk s.hpx1 H-->L george
s.hk L george
s.lk c.mp c.mk c.hp s.hk L george
s.lpx2 s.lk c.mp c.mk c.hp s.hk L george
lenny
argus

65,400 damage

Beowulf and Big Band can't do it. Bella is fucked by a few hundred points of damage. Robo fortune will wait to be finished to get her combo.
All other characters are guaranteed to be able to pull out a full skip. I have ideas for every character as for how to avoid the shockwave.

I want to thanks "a hat in time" OST for accompanying me in this journey to insanity. Especially this fine piece :
 
After discussing a bit with @JDbbx , I looked a bit more into the val combo to make it a little easier, and I found out that I totally forgot about air crosses.

So here's the updated version, easier and slightly more damaging :
sLPx3 cLKx2 sMPx2 cMK cHP
DJ jHP jHK IAD jHK air cross
cHP
IAD jMKx2 jHKx2 air cross (slight delays between jMK, jHK and cross)
cMK cHP
IAD jMPx1 jHKx2 air cross
sMPx2 cMK cHP
IAD jLP (jMKx1 delay) jHKx2 air cross (jMK is optional, you can skip it if you don't need the 300 damage and want to go for some easier)
cLKx2 sMPx2 cMK cHP
IAD jLKx1 jHKx2 air cross
sLPx3 cLKx2 sMPx2 sMK sHP H bypass scalpel
 
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Wanted to try out the Eliza full skip, since her combo is easy.
...
jLK jHP adc jLK jHP doesn't stun Nightmare Marie (anymore? @The Dave ).
Same for jMP jHP adc jMP jHP and jLK jMP jMK jHP.
cHK M sekh still does but chances that you will get hit are super high, since even the skeleton grab will have enough time to come out before you stun her.

This is very annoying. How many chars can actually stun Marie without too much trouble?!
 
I'm about three weeks out of practice, but I gave it a shot or six:


I wasn't able to pull off the main combo- spacing wasn't right, I kept landing before jHP would come out of jLK jMP jMK. Alternatively, jMP sometimes wouldn't connect. Still, it looks like jHP -> jLK jHP still stuns her.

Stunning Screenshot.PNG


I think reliably beating her and even skipping Marie's final phase are doable, just by someone much, much better than I am.
 
The Dave said:
Still, it looks like jHP -> jLK jHP still stuns her.
It...didn't...stun her...even once...with anything else than cHK M sekh, in the video you linked. She was just being nice with you.

Fuuuuuuuu...
 
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dragonos451 said:
It...didn't...stun her...even once...with anything else than cHK M sekh, in the video you linked. She was just being nice with you.

Fuuuuuuuu...

Huh, I thought swirly eyes on the vacuum meant Marie was stunned. That does explain how I kept getting punished by diagonal skull trains before Marie's IPS set off.

And yeah, those were definitely the nicer matches. I have about thirty other recordings that weren't nearly as successful. I just assumed it was me...
 
Did you try using Diamond Deflector? Because I did that once.
 
Reviving the thread!!! Linking the re-upload of a year old video that got muted...

Except that, uh, nothing new.
I'm still the only one willing to perfect Marie.
And I'm still pissed at Marie because of hits randomly not building meter.

This thread is so dead...
 
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Sorry man. I originally made this thread because I was having trouble with the boss. I think it's freaking awesome that you are digging deep into this game and in particular to an overlooked thing, but I don't think as many other people share your passion, which sucks.
 
Broseidon Rex said:
Sorry man. I originally made this thread because I was having trouble with the boss. I think it's freaking awesome that you are digging deep into this game and in particular to an overlooked thing, but I don't think as many other people share your passion, which sucks.

That, and it's painfully inconvenient to train against Marie.

No save states. No infinite health. If you mess up, you go back to the beginning of the fight. If you want to change characters or assists, you need to do a whole bunch of arcade matches again.

If there was a way to fight her in training mode, I'd be all over trying to figure out skips and strategies for her, but given the setup required I'd lose interest fast.
 
pegglefrank said:
That, and it's painfully inconvenient to train against Marie.

No save states. No infinite health. If you mess up, you go back to the beginning of the fight. If you want to change characters or assists, you need to do a whole bunch of arcade matches again.

If there was a way to fight her in training mode, I'd be all over trying to figure out skips and strategies for her, but given the setup required I'd lose interest fast.
limits are all in your head!
 
pegglefrank said:
That, and it's painfully inconvenient to train against Marie.

No save states. No infinite health. If you mess up, you go back to the beginning of the fight. If you want to change characters or assists, you need to do a whole bunch of arcade matches again.

If there was a way to fight her in training mode, I'd be all over trying to figure out skips and strategies for her, but given the setup required I'd lose interest fast.
Another thing, if you do figure out a good set-up, it's easy to accidentally win, sending you back through Arcade Mode all over again. Not exactly good for training. Not to mention phase-specific practice.
 
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I beat Marie by using cerebellas reflect and reflected everything.
 
BrandX+ said:
I beat Marie by using cerebellas reflect and reflected everything.
You're late...very late...
 
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dragonos451 said:
You're late...very late...

Oh I'm sure I am, but thats how I beat her lol.

I did this about a year ago though. Better late than never.
 
reflect wars: the copyright strikes back
 
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