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I used to have some respect for Peacock players who PBGC into the punch move...

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fenster said:
which I guess what this thread is about?,
Near as I can tell, the thread's turned into "complaining about reversals you don't like."
 
The point of this thread is me losing respect for Peacock players because the timing of a PBGC into an uppercut is pretty high in skill but the punch move being a fireball reduces the skill needed so I lost some respect.

The rest is fun for me to read. I can prove to you that the punch move is broken for how easy it is.
 
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The Dave said:
Near as I can tell, the thread's turned into "complaining about reversals you don't like."
What do you mean "turned into"? That's what it started as.
 
MegamanDS said:
The point of this thread is me losing respect for Peacock players because the timing of a PBGC into an uppercut is pretty high in skill but the punch move being a fireball reduces the skill needed so I lost some respect.

The rest is fun for me to read. I can prove to you that the punch move is broken for how easy it is.

Just like how I can prove to you that DP is just as easy as Fireball?
 
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MegamanDS said:
The point of this thread is me losing respect for Peacock players because the timing of a PBGC into an uppercut is pretty high in skill but the punch move being a fireball reduces the skill needed so I lost some respect.

The rest is fun for me to read. I can prove to you that the punch move is broken for how easy it is.
Oh, I agree it's a strong move. I can also guess that every character has a "strong BS move" that can be countered with the right practice. Hard for me to personally taste the Peacock salt because my online experience is an endless horde of Beowulf, Fukua and assist Big Band, but I'm sure it's there.
 
MegamanDS said:
the punch move is broken for how easy it is.
Dog just stop auto-piloting blockstrings and apply smart pressure and you don't have to worry about PBGC Punch Move.

That move is slow as hell anyway.
 
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Smile said:
Just like how I can prove to you that DP is just as easy as Fireball?
You win a match only doing DPs.

Episode 2 of bonus points is out. Showcasing the ease of this move...
 
There is only one thing i need to know.

Why is M. Bang called "the punch move"?
 
Sotherius said:
There is only one thing i need to know.

Why is M. Bang called "the punch move"?
Because she pulls out a fist and punches you?
 
fenster said:
But broken loose is actually right on this. It's extremely commonly known and seen that pbgc Gregor still loses in tons of cases if you ever see good filia players in casuals or streams.

Just the other day, a filia pbgc'd at Max clp range against my Eliza as I was using SHPx2 In a block string for fun, and Gregor got completely stuffed by one of the hits. And this is far from the only time this has happened in actual matches AS pbgc and not just mashing as you seem to imply that's what we do instead of pbgcing.

That's not to say Gregor is worthless for reversals out pressure, resets, or pbgc entirely. But of all the "mashable" things in SG, which I guess what this thread is about?, Gregor is fairly mild.

It's pretty rude to say that broken loose is somehow the one talking on hypotheticals and that you're the "realist" here, given that broken loose was the one here who traveled out to the latest SG major, NEC, where I saw no less than 2-3 instances of Gregor loosing as pbgc from the several filia players there, and you didn't. That's not a slam against you for not attending an American event, since obv that's a Monumental task for non Americans, but your comment comes across as insular and hostile (which broken loose started off here as too, but this whole thread is pretty jokey).

There's a reason that "Gregor sucks" is a small-meme that we say occasionally, and it's not because we haven't discovered how to Use PBGC defensively in its various uses and options either.


I see Gregor lose a lot as well. I also see Gregor happy birthday and kill teams. Me personally I'm more concerned when it kills my team. I don't use "it lost this one time or only works half the time" to be much of an argument when the upside is so good.


Also, "you didn't travel to X tournament" isn't an argument for or against Gregor but is an argument to discredit my credibility. Which is redundant because I have no credibility on this site. It's just an argument for arguments sake.


The rest of your post is "you responded to pc hostility with pc hostility" Yep, got me there.

And mashed Gregor is still good in pbgc and the world still goes on whether it gets stuffed sometimes or not.


In fact, from my perspective, the fact that sometimes it wins and sometimes it loses makes it even worse. If it were 100% in either direction you could realistically have a plan against it. But with it being so randomly powerful it can be a huge annoyance, especially when a hit or confirmed one can be the difference between winning or losing a game.


Oh, and this isn't me moving the goal posts. My original statement was that Gregor pbgc was the real cheese and not once has my opinion traveled non parallel in that regard.


I could list all the ways beat extend sucks and hpgets hit in startup and straight loses to some assists... But that's absolutely no indication of its overall strength and standing as one of the best assists in the entire game.


What level 1 super has as high of a reward on mash as pbgc Gregor?
 
Dime said:
I see Gregor lose a lot as well. I also see Gregor happy birthday and kill teams. Me personally I'm more concerned when it kills my team. I don't use "it lost this one time or only works half the time" to be much of an argument when the upside is so good.
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fenster said:
But broken loose is actually right on this. It's extremely commonly known and seen that pbgc Gregor still loses in tons of cases if you ever see good filia players in casuals or streams.


You do of course realise that this is you admitting that good filia players still use this?

Not random filia players, or scrub filia players... "Good" ones.


Which ENTIRELY destroys your point. "Good" filia players wouldn't STILL be using it 4 years and subsequent nerfs later, if it were as bad as the "well known meme" suggests. in fact things like that well known meme are what stifles the community. Back in the day people said mashy tag was scrub shit... Till TJ popularised it. I could see and always said that tag mash was very viable. Nowadays you have tags designed with reversaling in mind. I see sage and fox do it all the time. Sometimes safe, sometimes not. But people do themselves a disservice to just say a move is bad without acknowledging its benefits.

And in Gregors case the benefits are fucking HUGE. Way better than pbgc punch move, at the very least.

And I'll leave it at that.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
@Dime other lvl 1's

Are timpani, dynamo(near corner), ssj with pinion. Beowulf's gigantic arm


Very good :)

These all require screen positioning or a teammate to make great and none are available air and ground.

Air and ground is a good thing to have because it means you could give a flying f*** as to what state you are in.

As an example, I know I have, and I know other people have, reset mixups where whether or not you will be grounded for the mixup or airborn for the mixup... Is ambiguous. So you don't know which of your supers to use. This is also an issue with mashed tags.. They are ground only.


But I'm remembering now that we are talking pbgc not simply mashed reversals. In the case of pbgc, filia still gets all of these options air or ground, but she of course has to block first. As a pw player I have to know what state I will be in when the reset comes, to use my thresher or instead to use my DC. For filia the biggest thing you need to worry about is your distance from your opponent and how active the active frames are on the move you are pbgcing through.

Anyways, like I said in the first post where I said it, this isn't broken. It's simply cheesy and annoying. And of all the moves to get pbgc and hit by... This is the scariest one for me. And I've been hit by just about every pbgc imaginable, same as 99% of this forum. This tells me that perhaps this forum doesn't have to deal with the move as much as others... Because of the meme, more than anything.

I personally don't find ANY pbgc move to be THAT scary, because they all have to go through a lengthy pushblock animation that basically says "incoming reversal in t minus 25 frames or more" but I digress... That wasn't the point being made.
 
I dunno. If being hit by gregor is your major concern then i dunno. Especially since no one in this game will just pbgc without 2 bars that results in dhcs and the dhcs hurt you cause you got hit by the initial pbgc.
 
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Good players sometimes do bad things because it's unexpected. Gregor is a bad thing that pays off somewhat (low damage but pressure is reversed) if it works. The punchline is that nearly every time it was attempted at this last major, it proved to be a collosal failure in new and exciting ways, and the Good players in question had failed to account for how bad the move is.

I said you were moving the goalposts when you said it was unblockable as one of its key features. It's not unblockable. You can block it perfectly fine. Nothing is stopping you from blocking it. It just has 4 frame startup.
 
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Broken loose finally made a semi decent point. That in itself is a win for the entire community. Anyways, I've said my point.

At this time the only thing occurring to me is a how a certain someone managed to get taken off my ignore list, will definitely be rectifying that after this post.

Also, no goalposts were ever changed. I alluded to the unblockable was pf Gregor as a pbgc by referring to doing it in resets being bad, because of LACK of hitstop. Lack of hitstop is lack of unblockable ability...


And just saying something isn't unblockable because you can stop the setup from happening can be used against basically every unblockable everywhere because all have to be setup.


Shit... I just made another point. Sigh. W/e I'll allow another answer before I concede to not caring enough to continue to argue.
 
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Just throw
 
What the fuck this thread is 2 weeks old and still going
 
MMDS sure knows how to make a thread, I tell ya
 
I like how he keeps calling it the punch move but every time it hit in that video, it was never the fist.
 
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