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I'm McPeanuts I made a thread

Aha you owned yourself

Thinking about it more, even again duos and trios, not everyone has assists that are really suited to counter calling. Brass might be better against teams like that.
 
If you know exactly how or when your opponent is going to try to punish your brass, how can you best punish them for doing it? If you make that your top priority you might be able to force them to respect it.
 
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fenster said:
Absolutely would agree with this. Dropping the items even when they are smaller make for good defensive walls and were something I didn't figure out how to deal with last time I played TJ. I would not be surprised if upping your peacock play not only involved the general active neutral (that you're already exploring) but also using items a little differently too.



As much as anyone would like the feel themselves after praise, I think this video actually shows the opposite and I think playing dhoppler at CB we both agree'd that Brass worked much better than BE. Just looking at the video, I think most of the times I get in were because of some error Peacock did on defense or me grabbing through a lot of DP assist calls, but almost every brass worked in his favor here. Admittedly no assist to counter call with, sure, but I think that even then there are a couple of times you see in the video where dhoppler covers the brass well with item drops. I'd just say that Peacock (on top of needing to be a little more active on defense) needs to be a little more active in trying to counter assist-punishes , but thats true for most non-Robo/Squigly characters I think.


There were lots of mistakes made in the video. Both sides. But I don't necessarily think along those lines (everyone makes mistakes). You super jumped over brass assist and peacocks zoning basically at will. Yeah he got some good brass blocks into ok chip damage but other than that... What was brass really doing to stop your superjumping?
Had he had BE he could have teleported against your super jump into call BE when he reappears and create distance that way on block or confirm into blender because you won't be able to immediately able to superjump over it since it will be near point blank.



You obviously have counters to that, but he didn't really show any counter to your super jump during that set. I guess he wised up at combo breaker and started to back dash your super jump into making you land into brass or maybe he went a bit more offensive with item charge?



But his assists had little conversion ability and that's the primary problem I saw.


But I mean I could be wrong and evaluating the set on objective merits that are weak.
 
Mr Peck said:
If you know exactly how or when your opponent is going to try to punish your argus, how can you best punish them for doing it? If you make that your top priority you might be able to force them to respect it.
idk. Normally I would drop an item in between the two parts of the super, but if I'm doing it to punish an assist, a lot of the time that assist takes the item drop and the point character is unaffected. You can throw L Bomb just before Argus which will beat some things like Gregor but a lot of stuff can still punish your Argus.

@dekillsage I see you reading this thread, are you allowed to post yet
 
mcpeanuts said:
idk. Normally I would drop an item in between the two parts of the super, but if I'm doing it to punish an assist, a lot of the time that assist takes the item drop and the point character is unaffected. You can throw L Bomb just before Argus which will beat some things like Gregor but a lot of stuff can still punish your Argus.

@dekillsage I see you reading this thread, are you allowed to post yet
Shit i wrote argus instead of brass. My bad.
 
Mr Peck said:
Shit i wrote argus instead of brass. My bad.
Oh haha ok. Well it's a related answer, since they're gonna punish Brass with downback + call LnL/Bomber/w/e, and then I can Argus their assist but then [all that stuff I just said]
 
You can always try punishing that sort of thing with bang bang bang instead, or s.HP into bang bang bang or bombs depending on how safe you are. It's worth a try, especially because it sounds like Dekillsage had ways around argus.
 
wow i'm super fucking late to this discussion, that's what I get for going to bed early and having stuff to do this morning, but:

I haven't seen sage vs brass before. It's safe to assume he can get around it really easily by the way people are talking. But from my personal experience, brass just has YEARS of recovery time over other similar zoning/horizontal pressure assists so it's a lot harder for peacock to protect the assist well. Then again because there's the general opinion of "brass is bad don't use it" among good players I haven't really played anyone really good using brass w/ peacock so maybe there's strategies for it people have to figure out. I do think though that brass is WAY easier to punish or at the very least lockout without putting yourself at too much risk than other zoning assists.
 
hey mcpeanuts I took a look at Fortune instant j.lk j.hp adc j.lk j.hp on big band. I found 3 things you can do.

1) pushblock the first j.lk and pbgc L Beat extend
2) pushblock the first j.lk and pbgc 2mk
3) pushblock the first j.hp and pbgc ssj

So 1 and 3 lose to just j.lk j.hp block. 2 gives you some more cancels to work with tho so you can go into a safe blockstring maybe if they block.
 
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Thanks Nate, I kept thinking there must be a gap in blockstun but there never was. Now that I know it's all a true blockstring at least I know I have to pushblock. I also found some stuff earlier this morning to deal with Fiber so hopefully I can deal with that better next time.

In other news! I have decided that Robo-Fortune is a fun character and I want to main her. I would have been content to play Peacock/Big Band forever but this character is too cool to not play. Peacock's always been my favorite character in this game but what a lot of people don't know is that the thing I like best about her isn't her zoning (although I like that a lot too obv). The thing I like is her runaway. Well, I think Robo's runaway miiiiiiight be better than Peacock's. j.HK is amazing, she has a really fast forward dash to get under people who jump at you, she can cover herself while jumping back with beams and j.HP... these are all super cool tools. I guess she dies if she has to block but that's true for me anyways since I never learned reversal timing so there's like, no drawback.

Trying to think of how I want to add her to my team. Listing every possible option here with a bunch of words after each one. Any input is welcome, if nothing else theory fighting about team creation is a lot of fun so let's have some fun posting on the forum.

This is kind of the direction I'm leaning so I list it first. Even if I don't end up putting Robo on point for the long term, I want to have her on point to start just so I get the most matchup experience with her. I also like it because level 3 hidden missiles gets you a raw tag for free, or at least for very cheap, and being able to change your team order is very important on a trio. Beat Extend is probably the Big Band assist after having tried both that and Brass; it gets you easy conversions of ground throw and s.HP in addition to all the other stuff it does. Maybe I can use it to get heads mid combo, I dunno, I should experiment with that. Technically it gets you conversions off s.HK as well but you die if that gets blocked so I can't imagine I'd ever do it.

Not sure what the Peacock assist would be. Maybe s.HP for conversions off s.HK or as general lockdown. Maybe slow bomb, I really like slow bomb lately but I'm not sure if Robo gets enough off it to make it worthwhile. I'll probably try both. I tried plane but it didn't seem to work out, I think the honeymoon is over on plane in general, everyone seems to understand how to beat Brass + plane assist now.

Also not sure on the order. I'm leaning Big Band second so that if Robo goes down I can Timpani > Lenny which is plus on block and gets me out of the corner for free. The issue there is I have anchor Peacock, but I'm pretty confident in making comebacks with Peacock, I've done it enough times by this point.
Probably the "better" version of this trio. IDK. I have tried the Peacock trio with a DP assist and a zoning assist a few times before (Peacock/Filia/Double in SDE and Peacock/Big Band/Double in Eliza edition) and what I find is that when you call your zoning assist, you end up not having access to your DP assist when you need it. But maybe that's me using shitty zoning patterns or not protecting my assist well enough. I'm just saying though that's my experience. It's also harder to change my team order if I need to.

Again I think the order is Big Band mid. Fenster was showing me that SSJ > Magnet is not exactly safe, but it is hard to punish, so maybe it's worth trying.
Either Peacock/Big Band or Robo/Big Band depending on the matchup. So basically play all 3 characters but only ever play 2 at a time. Shout outs to MMDS. There's some logic behind this but only if Robo can cover Peacock's bad matchups, or definitively beat someone that Peacock only goes even with. The bad matchups are Filia and Valentine and it's sort of hard to imagine Robo does any better there than Peacock does. But I'll have to try it to really see.
Just listing these for completeness:
-Peacock/Robo or Robo/Peacock: I wouldn't really consider this because if you get touched you die.
-Point Big Band: Big Band's not as good a point character as the other two, and also if he goes down and you have to deal with an incoming situation it's gonna be a real struggle to come back. He's also not as fun to play as the other two.
-Solo: No. Well maybe solo BB for certain matchups.
-Something using a non Robo, non Peacock, non Big Band character: I tried those characters, they aren't fun.
 
@mcpeanuts
As my only time of giving a good recommendation. You should play customer service heropon.

he runs peacock/robo/bigband

and while i generally think that robo is trash the team it self augments your character which is peacock(feel free to correct me if i'm wrong)

BE with the way it covers 1/4-3/4 of the space people occupy can scoop people from any distance at any time especially off of robo's ground throw. Robo's assist stops filia's L air ball approach dead in its tracks. and they have to be even more linear. This is from me playing a good long set with him mind you.


Honestly peacock/band is 10X stronger than robo/band.

and if you plan to go trio for w.e reason when duo is better then use peacock/robo/band.
You're promised enough meter to get peacock out and be safe with robo's detonate lvl3.
 
Yeah I played Heropon earlier this week. He's really good!
 
SonicFox thinks Robo is good, but she's not mashy good. She's midrange and reading-the-opponent good.

Far L/M Beam + Brass (-> magnet to convert) or midrange beam + Beat Extend is a very good pairing. Beam + plane is pretty good too.

Having to block, or s.HP+assist, is not the end of the world.
 
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IMO BE is better for that team because it allows you to convert off of any stray air L Laser hit, which allows you to j.HP L Laser + BE to mess with people's grounded anti airs, c.MK xx L Laser + BB to make c.MK worth a lot more damage meterless, and s.HK xx call BE for easy meterless combos off of dust (though it doesn't make dust safe so that sucks kinda). EDIT: How did I forget, it makes air to air j.LK a hell of a lot scarier with j.LK j.MK j.HP + call BB.

Also H Beam assist allows for BB to save OTG for corner combos (starter chain, M Knuckle + RF H Beam assist, s.MP etc).
 
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yo robo/ big band is a ridiculous team to fight against.
the fact that robo can pressure at different points of the screen instead of peacocks pre-determined bomb/ item flight routes makes (at least for pw) playing her very difficult. oh and the space she gets from flying JHK is nuts.
 
I don't play robo or peacock so this is 100% theoretical but

mcpeanuts said:
I have tried the Peacock trio with a DP assist and a zoning assist a few times before (Peacock/Filia/Double in SDE and Peacock/Big Band/Double in Eliza edition) and what I find is that when you call your zoning assist, you end up not having access to your DP assist when you need it.

Double as a zoning assist (and brass if you've tried that, you've noticed this) is relatively easy to punish because she ends the assist right next to the opponent (probably). A projectile assist as a zoning assist I would think would be a lot harder to punish and so you wouldn't have to deal with the lockout preventing you from using DP assist quite as much. It sounds like pretty much everyone is already saying "use peacock point" for better reasons than this but I just wanted to give my two cents.
 
Hmmmm thinking about it more I think Big Band should be anchor on the trio. Laser super > Lenny seems safe on block from full screen (car and sniper didn't punish). Also I haven't tested this but I bet Argus > Magnet combos.
 
mcpeanuts said:
Also I haven't tested this but I bet Argus > Magnet combos.

Just tested this, doesn't seem like it does, not even upclose argus, not enough hitstun I guess.
 
fenster said:
Just tested this, doesn't seem like it does, not even upclose argus, not enough hitstun I guess.
Shiiiiiiiit oh well. Thanks for checking. So yeah it seems like point Robo is the better order.
 
mcpeanuts said:
Shiiiiiiiit oh well. Thanks for checking. So yeah it seems like point Robo is the better order.
Lenny->Cannon, Cannon works though. Or Lenny->Cannon, Magnet as OTG.
 
Mike_Z said:
Lenny->Cannon, Cannon works though. Or Lenny->Cannon, Magnet as OTG.
Oh that's sick, ty
 
Tried to play the video game a little bit this morning before work, I didn't get a ton of games in cause I kept getting kicked from every lobby but I did confirm Cannon > Lenny is a real way to get Peacock in, so that's great. I'm not sure about slow bomb assist though, it wasn't doing a lot for me. I think slow bomb is a better rushdown assist, so great for Big Band, but it wasn't so good for Robo. Maybe there's something to plane assist after all. L beam macroed with plane assist, as long as I confirm that the beam hit or was blocked, probably gets me a free head (or at least a cheap head).
 
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A few random thoughts after TSB and Party Python:

-I need to be punishing raw tags on reaction with H Gun xx Lenny > Argus. I know it's something I can do but when it comes up in match I don't think to do it. I need to train the reaction somehow. An idea I had was to set up the dummy to randomly either jump, jump back, or raw tag then block, and try punishing that on reaction (I love random replays so much, I get so much use out of them). I'm also thinking, if raw tag is an obvious option, maybe put down Lenny preemptively, try to scare them into not tagging and then chip out the point character. Ideas.

-Talking with @dekillsage after TSB he mentioned that jump back push something is generally better than jump back push nothing. Got me thinking about ways I can combo while jumping back with buttons. I think with Peacock, jump back j.LP j.MP is hit confirmable into j.HP + call Beat Extend. With Big Band maybe I can push one of his terrible air punches and confirm into drop kick. I'll need to spend some time in training mode with it.

-I generally like going low more than going overhead with Big Band cause if the low is blocked I can go for another mixup with Emergency Brake or Giant Step or something. @WarpedEcho gave me a good idea on the way up which was that if I super jump when I instant j.MK, I can do a falling j.LK if the j.MK was blocked. He also said something else about Big Band that I don't remember cause I couldn't update my notes cause I was driving at the time (how is it I remember all that but I can't remember what he said? Memory is weird)

-I'm starting to think if I do add Robo to the team, the order after all is Peacock/Robo/Big Band. The advantages I was talking about earlier where it's easier to get Robo out than get Peacock out? Yeah it turns out that's irrelevant since when I get Robo out and Peacock in the first thing I want to do is call Robo assist. Peacock assist is useful but at the same time it is very easy to not call her at all if I want to let her recover red health. All that said though I do want to play Robo on point when I'm practicing her so when I'm playing casuals I'm gonna use Robo/Big Band as a duo.

That's about it for now, I'm sure I'll have more after I have a chance to rewatch my matches.
 
mcpeanuts said:
-Talking with @dekillsage after TSB he mentioned that jump back push something is generally better than jump back push nothing. Got me thinking about ways I can combo while jumping back with buttons. I think with Peacock, jump back j.LP j.MP is hit confirmable into j.HP + call Beat Extend. With Big Band maybe I can push one of his terrible air punches and confirm into drop kick. I'll need to spend some time in training mode with it.

Can't you just do jump back jLK, and if you didn't already hit someone but see them come in, Cymbal? (and obv cymbal on hit)?
 
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fenster said:
Can't you just do jump back jLK, and if you didn't already hit someone but see them come in, Cymbal? (and obv cymbal on hit)?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Yeah that may be a better idea. Or even like jump back j.LP buffer j.LK confirm into Cymbals, or jump back tap forward j.LK. Hmm, yes.
 
Played a couple tournaments over the weekend. Friday at GU we did a $1 tournament where I went Peacock/Robo/Big Band the whole way. Not sure how I feel about this team. It is very strong until Peacock gets hit and then it really feels like a struggle. I was considering just abandoning working Robo onto my team, but then I remembered Masta CJ plays Peacock/Robo/x, and he seems to make it work. Maybe I should just ask him for tips. Hopefully the tip is not "do Robo s.HP and call Eliza" cause I can't do that =/

Saturday was the Hitbox Arena monthly. I need to rewatch my sets with Temple Nut from that one. I don't remember the games super well (I never do, this is why going over the videos is always so helpful) but I remember him getting happy birthday combos in situations where I wouldn't have thought he should have been able to. I need to figure out where the problems with my assist calls were in that set.

WarpedEcho said:
Plink air throw after jlp.
This shit's godlike btw I've started using it
 
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mcpeanuts said:
Played a couple tournaments over the weekend. Friday at GU we did a $1 tournament where I went Peacock/Robo/Big Band the whole way. Not sure how I feel about this team. It is very strong until Peacock gets hit and then it really feels like a struggle. I was considering just abandoning working Robo onto my team, but then I remembered Masta CJ plays Peacock/Robo/x, and he seems to make it work. Maybe I should just ask him for tips. Hopefully the tip is not "do Robo s.HP and call Eliza" cause I can't do that =/

Saturday was the Hitbox Arena monthly. I need to rewatch my sets with Temple Nut from that one. I don't remember the games super well (I never do, this is why going over the videos is always so helpful) but I remember him getting happy birthday combos in situations where I wouldn't have thought he should have been able to. I need to figure out where the problems with my assist calls were in that set.


This shit's godlike btw I've started using it
That shits godlike How I do it?
 
cloudKing211 said:
That shits godlike How I do it?
Well it was as Big Band but my understanding is that anyone can do it. Just launch, j.LP, wait, LP~LK. The thing that was throwing me off with this for a long time was I didn't understand the timing for it. I thought what was happening was you were abusing input leniency on throws by pressing LK during the animation for the LP. But actually it's more like you do LP, then you let the LP recover completely, then you input throw, except you have to input throw as a LP~LK plink, because of, I don't know, programming magic? I just know that it works.
 
I could be completely wrong, but my guess is that because on whiff lp will not chain into LK you don't get anything faster, but because lk chains from lp on hit/block (for the characters that can do this plink throw) then the game will "accept" (I use accept instead of "read" because the game will always read your inputs it just won't always do them if the situation isn't appropriate) the LK input sooner after LP than normal. However since you're using the lk after the lp has recovered, the LK is no longer interpreted as being chained from LP, and due to leniency on throw inputs you get LP + LK which is of course throw. This is not a big band specific thing, anyone who can chain lp into lk can do this but due to the nature of his normals BB is one of few (if not the only one; I don't play most characters so I don't know) who can do it in the air. I've done it grounded with Filia before.
 
Actually it's
LP, (on touch) after hitstop finishes LK~LP.
You are chaining the LP into LK and kara-cancelling the LK into throw. So in effect you're cutting off the recovery of LP into a throw.
You can do it with anyone who can chain LP->LK, wherever they can chain those buttons (air/ground).
 
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mcpeanuts said:
Well it was as Big Band but my understanding is that anyone can do it. Just launch, j.LP, wait, LP~LK.
Going off of what Mike said, what is described here is throwing after j.LP recovers, which still works without plink throwing. Plink throwing allows you to make the reset a lot faster though (j.LP is -5, so you go from a 12-frame reset to a potential 1-frame reset if your timing is good).
 
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Rewatched my sets with Temple Nut. I didn't end up making a video about it cause I'm tight. He noticed a tendency of mine in the first game and I never noticed that he noticed over the course of 8 games. I'm a dumbass. I know what to do next time though.
 
Some notes from last night:

vs Pet: Did okay on defense here but kept losing neutral. L Luger was a problem. Went into training mode after the set to figure out what to do against it. Honestly it seems like the best thing to do is read it and duck when I think Double's gonna fire the gun. If I'm fast enough I can stand up and s.HP before Double can shoot the gun again.

vs Deer: Messed up a lot of stuff here:
-Needed to teleport more. Deer's strategy against Peacock was to get into jump distance then call assist and use a jump in. I didn't really think about this until after the set, but if someone is going in that hard, teleports are kind of free. The opponent won't be in a position to punish.
-Kept getting hit with PBGCs, mostly as Peacock. Gotta try to confirm off jabs instead of just autopiloting my blockstrings. Incidentally does anyone know if there's a way to practice this? If you set the dummy to pushblock after X hits and do something as a reversal, will it do a PBGC?
-Tagged to Big Band too many times. It usually worked out since every time he punished this he would snap Peacock back in, but this could have been bad if he had killed Big Band. Sorta just need to drill it into my head that this is not a good reversal option.
-Couldn't block. Not sure what to do about this. Block better, I guess.
 
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