Improving at Eliza and Skullgirls in General

[BlueFeena]

Hi, I’m new to Skullgirls and was hoping I could get some advice on improving at Eliza and playing Skullgirls in general. I decided it would be worth asking for help as I’ve spent a little over a hundred hours in game – a considerable amount of which has been spent in the training room – but am not sure what I need to do to improve. This post might be rather long-winded as it is basically a catch-all for a lot of the issues I’ve been having.


To preface things briefly, Skullgirls is the first fighting game I’ve ever really tried to play and become competent at. Prior to this, the only fighting game I’ve ever played was vanilla Virtua Fighter 4 – I liked it a lot, but never had anyone to play with. I also have yet to play the story mode – largely because I would like to have some grasp as to what I’m doing and not simply beat the game owing to AI flaws – the hardest difficulty setting I can currently handle is Ridiculous. I spent some time in the arcade mode and after several wins and a few losses, I managed to get a surprise visit from Marie.


I’d really like to play a strong solo Eliza. I realize Skullgirls is predominantly team based, but playing solo is something I’d simply like to try. Mechanically, I am not opposed to teams at all – this is simply personal preference on my part. There are several reoccurring problems that I am having while playing against other people, I’d really appreciate any help:

• By far, the biggest problem I am having is with offense. I’ve participated in three of the Tuesday Night Slapfights and am hearing remarks that I am too passive. Specifically, whenever I attack, my opponent straight up beats whatever Eliza is doing. I am mainly relying on j.mk to poke the opponent and then attempting to quickly follow up with a c.lk when I hit the ground. On the ground, I simply try to start with c.lk or occasionally c.mp – regardless, everything I do is constantly stuffed by my opponents. If my attacks aren’t stuffed outright, I almost always lose ground or air contests due to a priority issue – I’m very much aware of Eliza’s gigantic hurtboxes that extend into her attacks. Said hurtboxes are one of the reasons why I am extremely reluctant to anti-air, as the hurtboxes for s.mp seem far too risky to try and swat down a flying opponent.
  
  
• Pressure is real sticking point at the moment – it seems as though when an opponent gets “on” me, there’s no way to get them off. I’ve tried numerous combinations of pushblocking, chickenblocking, and am almost always immediately put back into pressure. This is particularly problematic when I am in the corner – I’ve had a lot fights just straight up end when I’m placed in the corner and simply can’t figure out how to block my opponents non-stop attack chains.
  
  
• Valentine. I realize that my understanding with anyone but Eliza is non-existent, but yikes, Valentine is just taking me to the cleaners. Part of what prompted this post was after losing to the same Valentine player multiple times in a row, I simply became so frustrated that I had to leave the lobby and take a break. Valentine seems to be all of the above problems I’m having but on steroids - her pressure is diabolical, she has full-screen punishes that I simply cannot realistically avoid one-hundred percent of the time, and all of her moves seem beat anything Eliza does. I can’t even figure out how to safely poke a Valentine without running a near-constant risk of getting put into a reset chain. If I poke her, she just bounces right back up and slams me before I can start a chain – if I block, she simply applies pressure until I make a mistake with my blocking. I really need some help at swatting away Valentine and keeping her off my back.
  
  
• In relation to the matter of offense, I’m having trouble hit confirming. Specifically, I’m using j.mk a lot and when the kick actually connects, my opponent usually bounces away before I can convert it into a combo. Most of my j.mk pokes are done off of an IAD – I can’t figure out how to “close the gap” before my opponent flops away and returns to neutral. I’ll be the first to admit that my reaction time is lacking.
  
  
• At the risk of asking a very meat head question, I’m having issues with throw techs. When I do manage to consistently block attack chains, I almost always get thrown before I can predict the throw and chicken block or throw tech. I guess I just need to practice more? Seems worth asking, I guess. I know the throws are there but I just don’t know where.
  
  
• How much redundancy should I add to my inputs? Whenever I practice anything in the training room, I always try to learn the inputs with as few button presses as possible, trying to execute everything with a single button press. Is this a realistic goal? Most of the inputs I mash are the ones that have very strict timing and imply cannot have an input error – Sekhmet has some of the stickiest inputs I’ve seen and simply recalling Sekhmet under pressure or in a combo is probably one of the hardest inputs I’ve had to do thus far.
  
  
• How do I contend with someone who uses an assist to cover his point character? I recently fought one opponent who would use Fukua’s (?) s.hp – forever a clone? Looked like Filia’s s.hp but slid across the ground – to preemptively attack me, force me to block, and would then clobber me with the point character.

I’m hoping to get some video footage up within the next day or so and hopefully demonstrate the problems I’m having. This will probably take a day or so as I need some time to re-record the important replays and then cut them into a video.


Thanks for any advice you guys have; Skullgirls is proving to be very difficult but still incredibly fun.

 

[Receita Federal]

i don't think valentine is a bad matchup for eliza, i play the two and to me, eliza has the advantages both on air and on the ground

 

[The Dave]

Eliza Combo Thread and Compendium might help. Here's my own training thread in case my vids or the Eliza advice given to me might help you, too. I haven't been there in a while, though.

Defense is rough; in theory sending Sekhmet when you expect pain and want to keep attacking through it is a good idea, but that's one of those "things I don't do but should really do more often." Same with calling Bird (Horus) or Sewer (Albus).

I find watching other players tends to help/inspire me to try things- @dapurplesharpie and @Cillaid are pretty good, though I haven't seen them stream in a while. (Took a break for a lot of Bethesda games.) There's often some really good Eliza play during Salty, too.

I, also, have trouble against Valentine. She seems to hit everywhere, and her crossup air combos just keep going and going and going...

Tricks I find useful: jMK -> airdash -> jMK for a poke. Even if they block the first one, I find a lot of people get tripped up and caught by the overhead of the second one. Eliza's airgrab is amazing, especially since you can combo off of it (I tend to use cMK to follow up). If they're blocking, sHPx3 -> Bird tends to be a good blockstring, the double overhead trips some people up.

cMP's kinda slow for a poke. I prefer cLK, or cLP if I'm really close. sLK is also pretty good.

 

[alexpi]

I think super lame Val beats Eliza. Other than with Horace, Eliza has trouble reaching the heights necessary to contest Val and if Val's stuck in, Upper Khat doesn't contest most of Val's mixups. You have to be super patient and walk her towards the corner. Plus side is that if she tries anything to get over you, s.mp punches her out of the air.

As for more general questions: easy hit confirm off j.mk is just air dash into another j.mk. It gives you plenty of time to land and hit a c.lk. For grounded poking, stick with c.lk as a starter. best range, is safe, and comes out fast enough. Don't be afraid of s.mp if they're jump happy. The hurt box on it is delayed. If you play GG or BB, it's kinda like a 6p. Frankly, it's worth getting hit out of it a bunch to learn when to properly use it, but it's amazing.

Proper pushblocking requires a bit more learning about the game. You need to know what moves they do that you can push block to get out of pressure. General rule: look for where their block strings are ending and push there. Also, learn to pushblock guard cancel. It gets you out of everything.

Teching throws is hard in this. It's barely possible to do on reaction. Personally, I just look at likely spots where a throw attempt could happen and just accept that I may get counterhit.

Dealing with assists is very character specific. All I can really say as a general rule is to look at what assist options they have and don't be in the hit area of the assist.

 

[Receita Federal]

upbacking is a choice when i's a ground throw too

 

[Golbat]

How do I contend with someone who uses an assist to cover his point character? I recently fought one opponent who would use Fukua’s (?) s.hp – forever a clone? Looked like Filia’s s.hp but slid across the ground – to preemptively attack me, force me to block, and would then clobber me with the point character.

Lady of Slaughter can hit both the point and assist character while it's going. It's not much, but if the opponent's assist has low HP and they make a bad call you can do that super to punish since Lady of Slaughter has a pretty far range.

 

[BlueFeena]

Hey gang,

First off, thanks for all the great information. I just played a little tonight and tried to apply some of what you guys said, and it definitely helped. Practicing it all and puting it together in the training room is the next big step.

Eliza Combo Thread and Compendium might help. Here's my own training thread in case my vids or the Eliza advice given to me might help you, too. I haven't been there in a while, though.

Some of the combos are a little over my head; I'm currently just trying to execute and refine an incredibly short, but potentially effective, reset chain. It only branches at a single point and is a 1/3 guess at best, but it seems to be effective for a beginner. Some of the stuff I watched you do was very impressive and watching the c.hk -> Upper Khat combos are things I really need to watch and reproduce.

Tricks I find useful: jMK -> airdash -> jMK for a poke. Even if they block the first one, I find a lot of people get tripped up and caught by the overhead of the second one. Eliza's airgrab is amazing, especially since you can combo off of it (I tend to use cMK to follow up). If they're blocking, sHPx3 -> Bird tends to be a good blockstring, the double overhead trips some people up.

As for more general questions: easy hit confirm off j.mk is just air dash into another j.mk. It gives you plenty of time to land and hit a c.lk. For grounded poking, stick with c.lk as a starter. best range, is safe, and comes out fast enough.

These were all things I tried out tonight and it definitely helped. Val is still a pain with her high-priority attacks, as I basically watched one Val player j.mp punch her way through my kick. The s.mp seems to be the answer; getting in close and using it is the difficult part, as the attack goes straight up.

Also, learn to pushblock guard cancel. It gets you out of everything.

This has been on my to-learn list for a while, but the high execution barrier left me to think that PBGC'ing was reserved for more advanced players. Is there anything Eliza should PBGC into frequently, or is it situational?

Lady of Slaughter can hit both the point and assist character while it's going. It's not much, but if the opponent's assist has low HP and they make a bad call you can do that super to punish since Lady of Slaughter has a pretty far range.

Later this night I encountered a player using Big Band's A-Train as a preemptive assist and a get-outta-jail-free card when the point was attacked. It took me a while to grasp what you were suggesting, but after being hit a few times I began using Lady of Slaughter and indeed caught the point and the assist in the same attack. This was great advice and I really appreciate the help.


Lastly, apologies for taking almost a day and half for getting back to you guys. I spent the bulk of the day attempting to render a video of my losses but am having trouble getting the video under a realistic file size and still be viewable. Hopefully I'll have the footage up by Monday.

 

[Golbat]

Later this night I encountered a player using Big Band's A-Train as a preemptive assist and a get-outta-jail-free card when the point was attacked. It took me a while to grasp what you were suggesting, but after being hit a few times I began using Lady of Slaughter and indeed caught the point and the assist in the same attack. This was great advice and I really appreciate the help.

Like I said it's situational and only interesting because of the range, don't make a habit out of it. Played you earlier and don't worry about losses, just keep watching footage and playing and getting the hang of things.

 

[The Dave]

the c.hk -> Upper Khat combos

Funnily enough, those specific combos give me a lot of trouble. I think it has something to do with boating them after the bounce?

 

[Fizzxwizz]

I remember you from the last couple slapfests, please forgive me if I accidentally confuse you with ser barrister/loco though since you guys both showed up around the same time and play solo eliza.

When we played, you would always seem really content to just back off, and it never felt like you were trying to play skullgirls, it felt more like you were trying to play defensive street fighting in sg. Its fine to stay back and play defensively, but even players that have a defensive playstyle are constantly doing things. It is really important with characters like Eliza to get in and oppress the opponent, if your goal is to make them come to you, you will have a difficult time winning.

Skullgirls is a very very fast game, and if you try to do anything defensive on reaction you are going to run into some issues. Avoiding throws is as easy as just holding upback during a blockstring or combo that you think they are going to throw you in. In the air this won't work so well, especially since eliza doesn't have a doublejump to avoid airthrow resets, but you have other options like Nekhbet Breaker, one of your fast air normals like jlk/jlp, or if you're crazy you could try and airdash out of the reset.

(I have bad memory so this part might not apply to you)
When we played, I remember that 80% of the time on wakeup, you would do something like clk or some other crouching normal and then you would go into your bnb. Waking up with buttons is almost always a bad plan, doing the same thing in repeated situations is additionally very bad. On one hand, something like doing the same mixup 3 times in a row can be effective because your opponent will expect you to do otherwise, but most often that will come from conditioning or mindgames.

PBGC Upper Khat is a very useful tool for eliza, but make sure to not end every pushblock with dp because people will start to throw you for it. PBGC is actually pretty easy once you get the hang of it in training mode, doing it consistently in matches will come later.

I'm losing my train of thought, but I encourage you to watch Salty! when you get the chance, as there are quite a few Eliza players there, and a good portion of them also play solo like yourself.

 

[alexpi]

Funnily enough, those specific combos give me a lot of trouble. I think it has something to do with boating them after the bounce?

You have to hit the sweep OTG or else you can't combo into Khat. If you see they're still airborne when the sweep hits, cancel into the futon instead.

 

[BlueFeena]

Hi again,

I finally managed to get the gameplay footage uploaded. This is all from the past four days or so, though it was all done before I asked for any help. Apologies for the low video quality, it was the best I could get to render and I couldn't afford to have my internet connection tied uploading a massive video. The video has been time-tagged for easy viewing:

Spoiler

0:00 I don't understand how I won this fight.
3:07 Cerebella / Fukua player.
4:51 Cerebella / Fukua player.
6:09 Cerebella / Fukua player.
7:23 Eliza / Fukua / Filia player.
9:38 Filia destruction. Also contains Valentine.
11:25 Valentine issues.
14:50 More Filia destruction.
17:07 Fukua destruction.
18:24 More Valentine; assist issues.
20:18 More Valentine.
22:35 This one isn't me playing -- I recorded this to demonstrate the abilities of the Big Band player who I fought next and...
22:23 ...won the fight. Seriously, how did I win this one? I went into this fight expecting to get run over.
26:10 Parasoul / Double, absolutely demolished.
27:37 More Valentine and last fight.

When we played, you would always seem really content to just back off, and it never felt like you were trying to play skullgirls, it felt more like you were trying to play defensive street fighting in sg. Its fine to stay back and play defensively, but even players that have a defensive playstyle are constantly doing things. It is really important with characters like Eliza to get in and oppress the opponent, if your goal is to make them come to you, you will have a difficult time winning.

Skullgirls is a very very fast game, and if you try to do anything defensive on reaction you are going to run into some issues. Avoiding throws is as easy as just holding upback during a blockstring or combo that you think they are going to throw you in. In the air this won't work so well, especially since eliza doesn't have a doublejump to avoid airthrow resets, but you have other options like Nekhbet Breaker, one of your fast air normals like jlk/jlp, or if you're crazy you could try and airdash out of the reset.

(I have bad memory so this part might not apply to you)
When we played, I remember that 80% of the time on wakeup, you would do something like clk or some other crouching normal and then you would go into your bnb. Waking up with buttons is almost always a bad plan, doing the same thing in repeated situations is additionally very bad. On one hand, something like doing the same mixup 3 times in a row can be effective because your opponent will expect you to do otherwise, but most often that will come from conditioning or mindgames.

Hey thanks, nice to see you again. I'm not sure if my defensive posture is due to my lack of understanding of the game or how I actually want to play. The speed of the game has been an issue and I frequently back off of people just so I can comprehend what's going on. That may have been Barrister with the wake-up attacks; I usually block on wake up as it seems there are a lot of holes in my defense and attacking on wake-up feels dangerous.

 

[The Dave]

Huh, I forgot Skullgirls has a recording feature.

Except for that first match with Fortune/Filia, you seem to have trouble following up cHP (your launcher). You may want to figure out a small air combo you can do to take advantage of that and Eliza's generally awesome air-game. For instance, I spend a lot of my time in neutral using airgrab to sort of "fish" for jumping rushdown characters. If I miss I can probably block or dash out of the way, and if it hits I can follow up with cMK.

Your play is remarkably non-aggressive. Most people have a problem of pressing too many buttons and getting punished/baited; you seem to have the opposite thing going on. At least your defense looks pretty good, from what I can see. Nowhere near the "pushblocking got me hit again" problem I have. "How did I beat Big Band that match!?" You were aggressive. And he didn't use his anti-air grab.

Pretty good Sekhmet use, at least. Watch out for grabs. You seem a little scared of your cMK and jMK options. I did a little experimenting tonight, and jLK is also a good poke. Jumping forward with it seems a good thing to mash to try to get out of a corner if I can't actually see the reset. (This is probably bad advice, but it was effective a couple times, at least. May be worth further experiments.)

Also, I don't know if you know this, but if you're playing solo you can snap enemies to regain red health.

 

[akindhobo]

Some tips that may be some help.

I think Eliza is good around the mid range. At like round start distance is a good spot to play around in. You seem to play passive and you can make that kind of work for Eliza at that range. You could be defensive at that range and go in at times when they don't expect. Also with Eliza like every air dash character you want to be really conscious of when you air dash because you can't block when you do. When you air dash forward its a big commitment especially as a solo player.

So your good tools I think you should focus on are: j.mk obviously but don't just air dash j.mk freely. Try it with different jumps (forward, neutral, back, super jump) and you can threaten and keep your space with it with out committing too hard.

s.mp is an amazing anti air to protect yourself coupled with bird dive move (qcf+mk i think it is) s.mp is more reactionary and bird special is more pre-emptive i feel.

air dash into air grab is also very useful I think its the farthest reaching air grab in the game. Once you've got them blocking j.mk a bunch or you just notice them up backing you can go in for it.

Try not to get overwhelmed and focus on using one thing at a time in quick match or casuals. Take one game to focus on using one tool. Then you can rotate when you feel comfortable.

Also for future videos it would make it easier to see if you didn't have the inputs on.

 

[BlueFeena]

For instance, I spend a lot of my time in neutral using airgrab to sort of "fish" for jumping rushdown characters. If I miss I can probably block or dash out of the way, and if it hits I can follow up with cMK.

Watch out for grabs. You seem a little scared of your cMK and jMK options. I did a little experimenting tonight, and jLK is also a good poke. Jumping forward with it seems a good thing to mash to try to get out of a corner if I can't actually see the reset. (This is probably bad advice, but it was effective a couple times, at least. May be worth further experiments.)

The grab fishing sounds like a decent idea and something I've tried to a limited extent. Back dashing out of a whiff seems like the important part and is probably what I need to practice the most. During Tuesday Night Slapfights, I think Datagram recommended using the j.lk along with either a dash or IAD, so the suggestion to use it as a poke sounds like a good one. Using it to escape the corner seems a mite dangerous though. :P

I think Eliza is good around the mid range. At like round start distance is a good spot to play around in.

Funny you mention that; during TNSLF at the late hours I watched one player basically mid-range me to death with an anti-projectile like c.hk -> Heavy Upper Khat. It seemed unorthodox but looked like a reasonable way of tapping the opponent into a combo, although it's not something I'd want to make a habit of. For most scenarios, the j.mk is what I need to work on as per other people's suggestions. Also, yes, breaking the IAD habit is also fairly high priority, thanks as always for pointing out the mistakes -- it helps a lot.

Try it with different jumps (forward, neutral, back, super jump) and you can threaten and keep your space with it with out committing too hard.

You'd be stunned to realize that I hadn't considered anything other than forward jumping, thanks again.

s.mp is an amazing anti air to protect yourself coupled with bird dive move (qcf+mk i think it is) s.mp is more reactionary and bird special is more pre-emptive i feel.

I think some of the s.mp might be character specific; I tried forcefully using s.mp just to try to get a "feel" for the timing and it was definitely tricky. Trying to anti-air some of the long range jumping attacks from other characters (looking at you, Beowulf's j.hp) seems pretty difficult, perhaps the bird call is best for those types of jumping attacks as they tend to move slowly.

Sorry if the video inputs made it all a bit messy, I really didn't know if people wanted to see that or if it would be useful for diagnosing my problems.

Once again, I really want to thank you guys for all the great advice so far -- I try to play and practice several times throughout the week, so I assure you the information you guys are providing is being applied. I'll try to stick around here on the forums and see if I can contribute anything related to either Eliza or SG in general, discussing general tech seems really fun.

 

[Adwins]

If i anticipate a jump in or the person already IS jumping in with an attack, I would dash in-sMP (distance/time permitting). That wy i'm more likely to hit with it since its horiz range is pretty bad