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Indivisible: Lab Zero's Action-RPG! (General Discussion)

KZN02 said:
Now I wonder about suplexing the secret boss.
why would you suplex little old scribble cat?

I want it that Ajna fights him but afterwords she befriends scribble kitty and he's seen in her inner realm sleeping onto of one of the houses or something.
 
E!Damnation said:
Well, that makes sense. But will players be able to backtrack and fight previous bosses with the skills and weapons they get along the journey? I'm perfectly okay with that, or even going through NG+ to suplex the first boss, but then again, if the throw skill is also an important tool to access new areas, then I'd understand if the game doesn't let you suplex anything from the beginning, and I suppose there will be enemies that no matter your power level, you won't be able to throw them around.
Nothing determines your interaction ability other than enemy level. And as for the last thing...not really?
 
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Mike_Z said:
Nothing determines your interaction ability other than enemy level. And as for the last thing...not really?
That's... amazing, actually! Maybe I'm wrong, but I think there were some enemies that couldn't be suplexed by Sabin in Final Fantasy 6 (yeah, by now, many people have noticed this is my favorite FF of all time), but I can't remember if it was just aerial enemies, the Phantom Train (without using the glitch at least) and Kefka's ultimate form. It would be hilarious to beat the final boss by just throwing them around.
 
E!Damnation said:
I think there were some enemies that couldn't be suplexed by Sabin in Final Fantasy 6 (yeah, by now, many people have noticed this is my favorite FF of all time)
Most bigger enemies and nearly all bosses, right? I think the Train is a buggy exception. (Shouldn't you know, if it's your favorite FF? :^)

The final boss just miiiiiiiiiight be a higher power level than Ajna is.
 
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Mike_Z said:
Most bigger enemies and nearly all bosses, right? I think the Train is a buggy exception. (Shouldn't you know, if it's your favorite FF? :^)

The final boss just miiiiiiiiiight be a higher power level than Ajna is.
Oh no, that's why I mentioned you could suplex the train through a glitch, but it's been a while since the last time I played the game. This makes me think, have you thought about adding input commands similar to the Blitz skill? I remember you could input some kind of "equivalent" command if you weren't exactly good at fighting games; the Aura Bolt, for example, was a QCB, but the input speed was supposed to be lower than the average, so you could press down, down, left, left, and the game would still recognize it as the Aura Bolt command. It's just a question, though, cause considering that you can actually do combos in Indivisible, something similar to the Blitz command would make the game pace slower.
 
E!Damnation said:
have you thought about adding input commands similar to the Blitz skill?
I think arbitrary hidden commands are annoying, and can be difficult for no reason, and there's nothing we need to add them for. Heck, I eliminated as much of that as possible in SG!
 
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Mike_Z said:
I think arbitrary hidden commands are annoying, and can be difficult for no reason, and there's nothing we need to add them for. Heck, I eliminated as much of that as possible in SG!

yeah but what if you do that but have a pdf on the official website that has all the moves on it
im sure that nobody would be mad about that
nobody at all


Getting blocked in 3... 2... 1...
 
Mike_Z said:
The final boss just miiiiiiiiiight be a higher power level than Ajna is.
Can't wait to attempt to supplex the boss only to have it break my suplex then suplex me back.
 
Zidiane said:
Can't wait to attempt to supplex the boss only to have it break my suplex then suplex me back.

Then you break out of that and suplex him again in which he does the same!

A never ending cycle of suplexing.
 
I wonder, will there be sound-based puzzles or bosses?
 
CatfishZealot said:
I wonder, will there be sound-based puzzles or bosses?
Things that sound makes easier, sure, but nothing that can't be solved without sound (like, listen to 3 random tones and then play them back).
 
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Mike_Z said:
Things that sound makes easier, sure, but nothing that can't be solved without sound (like, listen to 3 random tones and then play them back).

I know I'm not the only one who despises those puzzles with a passion, especially when they drag on for way too long, so I thank the team for THAT
 
I appreciate not needing sound since, honestly I don't play a lot of games with sound anymore.

I just don't wanna bother people, and my headphones aren't long enough for comfortable game playing :0
 
Mike_Z said:
Things that sound makes easier, sure, but nothing that can't be solved without sound (like, listen to 3 random tones and then play them back).
This reminds me of how you made Skullgirls somewhat accessible to blind players with the use of sound effects. It'll be interesting to see whether you can keep that up in a metroidvania RPG, or if you even plan to.
Maybe the sound of a faint air flow as you stand close to cracked walls that can be broken down. you can have that for free ;)
 
chillbean said:
This reminds me of how you made Skullgirls somewhat accessible to blind players with the use of sound effects. It'll be interesting to see whether you can keep that up in a metroidvania RPG, or if you even plan to.
Maybe the sound of a faint air flow as you stand close to cracked walls that can be broken down. you can have that for free ;)
Indicating things like "there is a tunnel opening above you" or "you are standing at an edge" with just sound is a much more difficult thing.
I'm....really REALLY open to ideas here, since I have none. If I could solve that, that's pretty much the whole game, but I am not sure I can.

I sort of thought of allowing an option for people to use the right stick as a virtual "probing cane", where tilting it would cast a ray in the given direction and give you a "tap" sound that varied depending on how far the object was, since you can control the direction fairly precisely. But if there are enemies moving around and stuff...that's hard to use, innit?
 
Mike_Z said:
I'm....really REALLY open to ideas here
I sort of thought of allowing an option for people to use the right stick as a virtual "probing cane", where tilting it would cast a ray in the given direction and give you a "tap" sound that varied depending on how far the object was, since you can control the direction fairly precisely
If this is for blind/vision impaired players, I'm not sure it matters how precise the visual aid is.

I think something akin to a, "listen," button might be good. Say, if you were near something that had a special condition (like breakable, flammable, etc), by holding the listen button, the BGM & SFX would dull, leaving the audio cue associated with the object to be heard more clearly (flowing air, dry branches cracking, etc). I know this doesn't address every vision impairment issue, but it would help people who aren't able to perceive the level of detail necessary to see a cracked wall or discolored vine.
 
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What if when within a set distance from a secret/breakable thing, listening/meditating made one of your teammates say a thing? I feel like just making flowing air or the like wouldn't help unless people knew that that sound meant that thing, but having a teammate imply that there's a breakable wall or something more to that room would show that a thing is there, while not directly showing where it is and spoiling the trick to get there.

Also, if you do any kind of thing to indicate that there are secrets, it seems like it could be frustrating if you don't have the powerup to access it yet. Like, in the prototype, if there was an indication that there was a breakable wall towards the beginning where the first secret was, I would have sat around there for a while looking for it and got frustrated when I couldn't find it. For fear of this, I would rather not have indications. At least, not until after I have every secret-getting powerup.
 
Zidiane said:
What if when within a set distance from a secret/breakable thing, listening/meditating made one of your teammates say a thing? I feel like just making flowing air or the like wouldn't help unless people knew that that sound meant that thing, but having a teammate imply that there's a breakable wall or something more to that room would show that a thing is there, while not directly showing where it is and spoiling the trick to get there.

Also, if you do any kind of thing to indicate that there are secrets, it seems like it could be frustrating if you don't have the powerup to access it yet. Like, in the prototype, if there was an indication that there was a breakable wall towards the beginning where the first secret was, I would have sat around there for a while looking for it and got frustrated when I couldn't find it. For fear of this, I would rather not have indications. At least, not until after I have every secret-getting powerup.
MsMowz2.jpg

With Voice Acting, basically?

Looking up Ms. Mowz on google returns some... unexpected results
 
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VO assists are annoying as hell. I don't need some asshole telling me I should try fire every time I pass by a bush. Also, every instance of this kind of thing is about providing unskilled players with help, not the blind/semi-blind.

Vision impairment assistance can be more elegant, and more transparent to those who do not require it.
 
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Kai said:
VO assists are annoying as hell. I don't need some asshole telling me I should try fire every time I pass by a bush. Also, every instance of this kind of thing is about providing unskilled players with help, not the blind/semi-blind.

Vision impairment assistance can be more elegant, and more transparent to those who do not require it.

Well I think he meant if you stay by something that has some kind of hint that it may have a secret, one of your team members will say something... I unno
 
Shorydouken said:
Well I think he meant if you stay by something that has some kind of hint that it may have a secret, one of your team members will say something... I unno
It would be far better to empower the player by giving them control over the tool meant to assist them, as with my listen button or Mike's sonar ping. You really think a blind person would appreciate having to stand around at various points to see if it triggers the voice over? That would be tedious as hell.
 
Kai said:
It would be far better to empower the player by giving them control over the tool meant to assist them, as with my listen button or Mike's sonar ping. You really think a blind person would appreciate having to stand around at various points to see if it triggers the voice over? That would be tedious as hell.
Man I haven't even really played the demo I'm just trying to give suggestions damn why you gotta be all up on my case
 
Let me ask you all have you ever played a game where the characters talk constantly about what their doing? It gets annoying right? TO hear the same clips over and over again.

Pefect example is sonic boom...they just LOVE those rings.
 
Kai said:
It would be far better to empower the player by giving them control over the tool meant to assist them, as with my listen button or Mike's sonar ping.
I said to assign it to a player controlled action. I was building off of your "listen button" idea. It would be you intentionally asking your team to help, rather than them volunteering it annoyingly.
 
Zidiane said:
I said to assign it to a player controlled action. I was building off of your "listen button" idea. It would be you intentionally asking your team to help, rather than them volunteering it annoyingly.
Ok, that's better, but still presents the problem of annoying repetition, because a blind person would be using that tool a lot. You're looking at it as a cool feature (more VO!) but I'm looking at it like it is: impairment assistance. It needs to serve its purpose as effectively and simply as possible, no more.
 
Go the Jonathan Blow route and push the sound design team to the absolute limits. 1000+ different footstep sound effects! \o/
 
An equipable stick that drags (well, pushed) infront of Ajna and makes a dragging sound, and stops making a sound when a ledge shows up or a special "thump" when a wall is hit XD
 
Kit Ballard said:
An equipable stick that drags (well, pushed) infront of Ajna and makes a dragging sound, and stops making a sound when a ledge shows up or a special "thump" when a wall is hit XD

I mean... maybe that's just a feature of your weapons? Just have to add an animation where you drag your weapon along the ground for the same effect. If that were the case though, it would likely also put Ajna into a stance in the overworld, which would call for more attack animations to look fluid.
 
Kai said:
Ok, that's better, but still presents the problem of annoying repetition, because a blind person would be using that tool a lot. You're looking at it as a cool feature (more VO!) but I'm looking at it like it is: impairment assistance. It needs to serve its purpose as effectively and simply as possible, no more.
Why can't it exist alongside a probing cane (if such a thing happens)?

Also, if a probing cane happens, couldn't it just have varying sounds depending on what it's "touching"? A hum for the floor, a higher hum for a wall, a lower hum for a wall that isn't able to be interacted with (no axe/spear/kunai thing), a buzz for an enemy, a thud for a breakable object, and nothing/wind for empty air.
 
What level of blindness are we trying to help? If it's legally blind a screen color tinting may help when certain things are about to happen. Like if as an enemy gets closer the whole screen becomes more red. As you approach a wall the screen begins to turn green. As you approach a ledge screen becomes more blue. Stuff like that. With audio cues that should help legally blind and completely blind people.

Higher levels of contrast may help legally blind people too.
 
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