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Indivisible: Lab Zero's Action-RPG! (General Discussion)

Lower details would help too. Different rumbles for the controller would be a good cue too.
 
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I feel like 6 months was said somewhere. Maybe.
 
Tank said:
Lower details would help too. Different rumbles for the controller would be a good cue too.
Can't guarantee anyone ever has rumble.

In fact, I forget about it entirely...and I also don't like it much, hah. :^P
 
Mike_Z said:
Why not? :^)
I'd end up enjoying, then wouldn't have money to buy it, so I'd be left feeling empty

Plus from the gameplay I've seen it looks like a time grind fest. Sit there in a battle against a single enemy for minutes as you do what feels like 2 damage a hit just doesn't interest me. Probably why I like games like Project X Zone and Chrono Trigger, your moves have ridiculous impact most of the time and it's gratifying, I feel like I wouldn't like this very much.

Er, sorry, I hope that's not disrespectful
 
Wenzel said:
Any date for an updated version of the prototype or TBA? I really want to test the new things!
Mike said during the panel that the Windows version is ready, but only that, and he would feel bad if he released that and leave everyone else with nothing.
 
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Yeah okay thought about it and I'm gonna respond to this more:
Shorydouken said:
Sit there in a battle against a single enemy for minutes as you do what feels like 2 damage a hit just doesn't interest me. Probably why I like games like Project X Zone and Chrono Trigger, your moves have ridiculous impact most of the time and it's gratifying, I feel like I wouldn't like this very much.
Why don't you try playing the game? Pretty much the only enemy that takes "minutes" is the regular boss, and that's more-or-less on purpose to make sure you know how to block and heal.
The first enemy you find in the game dies in 3 hits or less.
I'm mostly saying this because complaining without trying isn't useful, but I'm SOMEWHAT saying it because I timed the normal battles up through Yakra in Chrono Trigger when we were making the prototype, and made sure the normal prototype battles were all shorter than the average in CT.
So, s'why I'm confused.
 
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Didn't doctors create sunglasses combined with microchips give blind people limited sight? Combined with a oculus it might let blind people play videogames. It's a bit farfetched but it's a thought
 
I never played Valkyrie Profile before, but I played a similar minigame where my characters threw frisbees at animals.
 
Completely on a different tangent, but I've seen already several comparisons to Project X Zone, and I just want to say that I really loathe the game. And I made every effort to try and like it.

Shorydouken said:
time grind fest.
Shorydouken said:
Project X Zone and Chrono Trigger, your moves have ridiculous impact most of the time and it's gratifying
Not trying to be rude, but this just sounds contradictory. Project X Zone has you sitting through several lengthy canned combos and a finisher animation that I always skipped. You only need to memorize four to five input timings; it's brain-dead and dull after several hours.
On a macro scale, the game drags on almost tortuously, throwing in waves after waves of mooks to artificially extend the length of each chapter because the designers couldn't think of any other ways to make the map design interesting. Then you have to slowly move all your units turn after turn to move up the map, only to be ambushed and start all over again.
 
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Mike_Z said:
Can't guarantee anyone ever has rumble.

In fact, I forget about it entirely...and I also don't like it much, hah. :^P
Can't guarantee no one has rumble.
I mean I wouldn't like the extra color contrast changes but I'm not that blind. Touch and sound would only help those that need it.
 
Tank said:
Can't guarantee no one has rumble.
I know, I'm just saying, I don't even know how to make it work on Windows. Can you even?

Why are you so contradictory? :^P
 
XInput supports rumble ("vibration"), and SDL has a "force feedback" library.

Edit: I'd like to add that a few battles in the prototype did feel too long to me (The blonde haired hair thing stands out). Though I expect fights will be a lot more interesting once more mechanics are in.
 
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Shorydouken said:
Plus from the gameplay I've seen it looks like a time grind fest. Sit there in a battle against a single enemy for minutes as you do what feels like 2 damage a hit just doesn't interest me. Probably why I like games like Project X Zone and Chrono Trigger, your moves have ridiculous impact most of the time and it's gratifying, I feel like I wouldn't like this very much.
Disclaimer: I'm a random guy on the internet who isn't employed by or in any way solicited to support Lab Zero or their ventures on this forum. I hate wasting time in video games, I loathe grinding so much so that I refuse to play MMO's, and I'll lose interest in a JRPG or tactics game the second it feels like I'm just fighting mobs for no reason.

With that out in the open, I didn't at all feel like my time was being artificially manipulated or wasted in the prototype. Fights were quick, especially when you get a feel for the buttons (there's only three attacks to keep track of). Fights could be skipped, letting me control the pace of my progression. The only part that at all like grinding was making the first couple cup noodle guys respawn so I could rack up kills for quicker party members, and I chose that myself cause I wanted to. Natural progression through the map, avoiding enemies when they weren't on the path, got me through the game in a healthy pace.

Try the game. Play it for any period of time and I feel like you'll see that you are mistaken about the pacing.
 
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MysteriousJ said:
XInput supports rumble ("vibration"), and SDL has a "force feedback" library.
True, but not everyone is going to use a controller. The prototype is perfectly playable on keyboard (I've beaten it a couple times that way), and I mainly used my fightstick to get through it. The only time I've ever played it with a controller was at the demo booth at CB2016.

Wenzel said:
Just play the prototype, many about your cornces are well adressed on it! @Shorydouken
I think you missed the concern of
Shorydouken said:
I'd end up enjoying, then wouldn't have money to buy it, so I'd be left feeling empty
which is understandable, but also probably where the comment should have ended, since everything beyond that is both unsubstantiated and admitted to stay unsubstantiated indefinitely.
 
Mike_Z said:
Why are you so contradictory? :^P

Just how I am I guess. Plus things are better understood when looked at from more than one side.

Shadowfury333 said:
True, but not everyone is going to use a controller.
Then they just don't get the rumble if they use the keyboard. It's not uncommon for console and pc versions of games to have different features that make people want to use a particular setup. Just depends on what you want. As long as the feature doesn't impede progress it should be ok to implement it where it can be used...at least in a single player game.
 
Tank said:
Plus things are better understood when looked at from more than one side.
This is true!

Tank said:
Then they just don't get the rumble if they use the keyboard. It's not uncommon for console and pc versions of games to have different features that make people want to use a particular setup. Just depends on what you want. As long as the feature doesn't impede progress it should be ok to implement it where it can be used...at least in a single player game.
Lemme start by clarifying that me saying "I don't even know how it works" was more of a, if I have to implement 5 different interfaces and can't get them all to behave even moderately the same then this feature isn't going to even work very well.
BUT
I'm less concerned about "only some people will have it" because everyone with a PS4 or xBone pad will have the ability for rumble, and more concerned with "are the differences in it fine-grained enough to actually be useful to communicate information". Most games I've seen have like 2-3 levels of rumble and that's basically all, because although the motors (at least in DS3s/DS4s) are very sensitive and configurable, most people won't notice any difference with only small changes in strength.
 
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I didn't realize how much I contradicted myself, let me explain better:

From the gameplay I have seen, fairly large monsters are abundant in the cave, and these seem to take at the very least a minute or two to actually defeat; Ogres, that Phoenix-ish looking boss, and the cat all took over a minute at least from what I saw, as I said.

Seriously, watching the speedrun version of the phoenix boss going on for almost 3 minutes made my brain itch; I couldn't stand to watch the cat fight at all. It looks to me like you sit there and hack away at monsters with ridiculously large amounts of health for minutes upon minutes, in abundance. I would not like that kind of gameplay. Compared to PxZ where "battles" last at max a minute and Chrono Trigger who's longest battles where bosses that did take a couple of minutes but average enemies took about a max of 30 seconds if you know what you're doing.

Now on the OTHER hand, if I do play it and end up enjoying it, well that's too bad for me since I probably wouldn't be able to buy it.

Now, I've seen very little due to becoming uninterested early on, but I could definitely be wrong about what I saw.

I'll give it a try soon I guess, just so I can get out my then-fully-educated opinion

Now, if Stanley was (were?) in the game, that'd be another story all together... *cough*
 
Play it. I hardly felt like it was any kind of "grinding". And I would know, I'm a MMo/JRPG fan. This game hardly hardly feels like grinding cause the attacks, animations, (the current) sounds, and meter usage feels a whole lot different than just brainlessly rolling your face on the buttons. Plus, later on, we'll have to use strategy to win fights. as the moment, we are just having fun making up fun combos that work and learning timing of blocks and heals. The only kind of grind I found was back tracking at the start to bop a few hungry ghosts for tungar, and that lasts like, 1 attack phase XD

It actually feels fun. PxZ was stiff. Plus so much shit happening on the screen just to keep up a combo was pretty annoying to watch as I wanted to see the sprite animations, not the flashy stuff. On indiv, you still have to keep pace, but it's more lenient in that you can use 1 char at a time to set it up right or even just to watch the fun animations. Don't have to faceroll.


I was wondering: Will there be rumble support? At least for console edition? While I'm not one of those "MUST HAV RUMBAL" people, I do like a little force feed back.
 
Shorydouken said:
phoenix boss going on for almost 3 minutes; I couldn't stand to watch the cat fight at all.
Boss was almost 3 minutes, Cat boss was 7 minutes (I'm okay with secret optional bosses being harder/longer). Masamune takes almost 7 minutes here and he's not even a secret boss.
 
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Shorydouken said:
It looks to me like you sit there and hack away at monsters with ridiculously large amounts of health for minutes upon minutes, in abundance. I would not like that kind of gameplay. Compared to PxZ where "battles" last at max a minute
Did we play the same game? I remember battles in PxZ lasting like 10-15 minutes minimum. Unless you're thinking like, one attack by one group on one enemy, which is not even an entire turn...?
(And you're barely providing any input that whole time, but that's beside the point.)
I mean from here to the end of this video is one battle:

Shorydouken said:
and Chrono Trigger who's longest battles where bosses that did take a couple of minutes but average enemies took about a max of 30 seconds if you know what you're doing.
Consider the big black ogre a miniboss, and consider the boss and the cat as bosses, then. Cuz they are.

Just tested, the regular Belu (ogre) took me 25 seconds, and the big black one took me 54 seconds to beat. And that's with several enemy attacks in there.
I dunno man...let's pick an unavoidable easy battle from CT:
45 sec.
(And remember, Chrono Trigger is super easy, just like Megaman 2, that's part of why so many people like them.)

I did a LOT of research on this, so to me it seems like you're misremembering how much shorter things seem when you're playing them.
 
Now please correct me if I'm misremembering but I thought it was said before that you wouldn't have to grind in Indvisible because it's not based on levels like a classic RPG (dragon quest, final fantasy, etc).

Now as for the battles taking minutes I don't know what you're talking about. Sure they took me a few minutes the first time I played the prototype but that was because I was learning the controls, mechanics, and my options. After all that battles went by quick.

I feel this image perfectly sums up the situation:


image.jpeg
 
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The cat doodle boss is actually optional, and the prototype boss isn't too hard as long as you know what you're doing. This make take several minutes, but if you learned how to properly use your party to your advantage (Razmi and her Slow-inducing attack is the best example here), then the boss shouldn't take a lot of time to be defeated. Trust me, just play the game and then come back here and tell us if you changed your mind or not (or else every single reply you'll read from now on will be "play the game!").
 
Yeah, honestly like,
I really like Project X Zone, one of my favorite games honestly, mainly for the character interactions and side stories but whatever, and even I'll tell you that fights in that game are a grind. Boss battles in particular take forever because to balance out the gigantic party you have, boss enemies are given a ton of health so you're just kinda standing around and chipping at their health for way longer than either of the prototype's bosses.

And, yeah, while 2 did open up the combo system a little, for the most part you are just throwing out the same chains over and over again, Indivisible is a lot more active since you're trying to conserve meter for healing, making sure to toss out Razmi's growl every so often, and keeping an eye out for enemy attacks so you can block effectively while not losing all your meter.
 
I will disagree. Project x zone was not a fun game. fun interactions sure but when you get past getting all the characters, like I did, you start to see how bare bones and insufferable the game is. Battle system aside there is NOTHING in the game, you move across maps that are way to big to beat an enemy over on the other side and sometimes you're timed to an absurd degree and then they just throw ambushes without warning. theres no stratagem, no extras, no nothing but flashy colors and cool animations.

Its just a fancy picture show with bare bones combat and nothing of substance. Something I hope indvisible WONT be. admitly my favorite parts of chrono trigger were the sidequests with personality and how actions affected the world even in small ways such as small visuals. For example what you do in the start of the game effects the trial at the end and while the trial has no real bearing or change on the story its still interesting to see how your actions matter. Same goes for the shop keep in the dungeon, if you free him he gives you items later on if you want to re vist his shop later in the game. Heck getting chrono back after he dies is a COMPLETELY Optional quest but it adds so much in terms of game time, personality, and story.

Basically what im saying is I hope Indivisible is packed with personality in the side quests and optional stuff, instead of being like project x zone where theres bare bones nothing in terms of personality and fun aside from character interactions and flashy automatic moves. because for me personality in a game matters just as much as gameplay.
 
Magma442 said:
and then they just throw ambushes without warning.
This was kinda funny.
 
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Shit...should've clarified. What I mean is it would be something like fight this giant wave of enemies theyre all gone now what? well head to the boss i guess..1 tile step and out of nowhere new giant army! Im really not doing a well enough job explaining it because admittedly its kinda hard but trust me on this anyone whos played the game knows exactly what im talking about.

It didnt feel like a fun challenge is what im saying nd there was no real way to predict the things and strategist. they just appear.
 
Kai said:
If this is for blind/vision impaired players, I'm not sure it matters how precise the visual aid is.

I think something akin to a, "listen," button might be good. Say, if you were near something that had a special condition (like breakable, flammable, etc), by holding the listen button, the BGM & SFX would dull, leaving the audio cue associated with the object to be heard more clearly (flowing air, dry branches cracking, etc). I know this doesn't address every vision impairment issue, but it would help people who aren't able to perceive the level of detail necessary to see a cracked wall or discolored vine.

This is what my first thought was, like perhaps holding a button dims the volume of the music and raises the sound effects of nearby items. But this would depend on every interact-able item having its own constant sfx and wouldnt tell you anything about whether its on your left or right, above you or below you etc. It might also be work less well if you have two 'noisy' items very close together. Plus the sound effects may end up confusing the player; say for example you're stood by a hanging torch that can be hit with an arrow to cause it to drop, maybe to hit an enemy or solve a puzzle w/e. But the sound of flames may give the impression that its actually a stage hazard that the player needs to avoid.
 
Wow what would his moves be? How difficult? What happens when you beat him? I have theory:
After deafiting Mike reality warps and Ajna ends up in lab zero office to fight the rest of the device team!
 
The talk about accessibility just reminds me about Yoshi's Story where holding R would let Yoshi sniff and find secrets. But there was no reason to not hold down R for the entire game, other than it made you walk slower, so searching for secrets was just an exercise in tedium again.
 
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superj3 said:
Wow what would his moves be? How difficult? What happens when you beat him? I have theory:
After deafiting Mike reality warps and Ajna ends up in lab zero office to fight the rest of the device team!
The more important question is whether or not we can suplex this boss.
 
Her head looks way too huge. Is it just perspective or did someone not look at that a second or third time before sending it off to be printed?
 
KZN02 said:
The more important question is whether or not we can suplex this boss.
That's the finishing blow
 
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