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June 2023 Content Update Discussion Containment Thread

hmm i been thinking about it and this update kinda of feels like a gamble a bit i guess the devs knew this would happen but they just kept going i guess?
A gamble is normally made when you except to win something.

I'm confused to what the devs were excepting to win.
Posts moved from Social Media thread. As mentioned, any posts related to the update should go in this thread. This is the first warning for both of you.
 
Posts moved from Social Media thread. As mentioned, any posts related to the update should go in this thread. This is the first warning for both of you.
sorry chrono i thought i was posting on the discussion cointament thread but then i saw my mistake and deleted it
 
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uh i saw this posted on twiiter and wanted to see what you guys think about it..chrono if this post is not alright i will delete it
 
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uh i saw this posted on twiiter and wanted to see what you guys think about it..chrono if this post is not alright i will delete it
It's pretty on the nose with its sarcasm. Aside from that, I had the same kind of thought as this post when I saw this lvl 3.
 
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uh i saw this posted on twiiter and wanted to see what you guys think about it..chrono if this post is not alright i will delete it
Yeah that's fine lol.

Also this is a great way to call attention to it and get the Band super censored as well. It's already censored in SGM.
 
The problem isn't just white circle on red, it's that they're armbands on a Hugo Boss-style uniform. It's everything together in context.
 
The problem isn't just white circle on red, it's that they're armbands on a Hugo Boss-style uniform. It's everything together in context.
No, the tweet talking about the changes specifically cites flags as well as armbands and symbolism under their "allusions to real world hate groups". There's no getting around the fact that the Egrets are inspired by WWI prussia and WWII Germany so unfortunately that should probably include the flags on Big Band's blockbuster and I wouldn't want anyone to be surprised if such a change comes to the fighting game down the line. Although most likely such a change would just be changing the color to the banners from red. Because you could argue that in context; bands during that time and even in modern times would have had decorative banners on music stands, but given it's red with a white circle and black insignia it can and will be taken the wrong way.

In the wake of this I've similarly see people point out that GGXRD and Strive Potemkin has a prussian military helmet as well as a red arm band in a uniform that, while probably Soviet inspired, can also be seen as German. But ArcSys has not seen the need to remove the arm band because of the potential comparison. I think just like my complaint with censoring Big Band's story mode, I think all this does is show that HVS and FC don't trust players and consumers (who should be of a mature age) to be able to differentiate fiction from reality. I get the discomfort some people might have knowing the Egrets were visually inspired by the Nazi's, but I think the game is lesser for removing part of their uniform without filling the void with something else, and keeping every other aspect of the design intact.

We're seeing a similar kind of backlash to the changes to LISA: Definitive edition's Playstation release because of reportedly minor changes that just piss off fans of a game that's nearly a decade old in its own right. And in that case at least the blame could be shifted to Sony for witholding the games launch on their platform due to their own content standards. Does changing the in-game reference to alcohol and Joy to "soda" and "not pills" remove the idea that the game deals far more heavily with themes of substance abuse than SG does with Nazis?
Also this is a great way to call attention to it and get the Band super censored as well. It's already censored in SGM.
I don't know if the mobile game is actually censored, the video I've seen from last year compiling blockbusters still has the banners on the stands. Do you have a recent screenshot or video showing this?
 
I don't know if the mobile game is actually censored, the video I've seen from last year compiling blockbusters still has the banners on the stands. Do you have a recent screenshot or video showing this?
IIRC in his default palette in Mobile, the black sigil is filled with white instead so it's less invocative of the flag. I may be remembering wrong though, since I have not played it in a while.
 
The removal of the armbands is the only edit I find justifiable. When I started playing SG, I was kind of turned off Parasoul as a potential character to play as when I saw she was the commander of what looked like an SS-Squad. Of course, the fact I didn't know how to do charge inputs turned me off her even more...
 
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Why not implementing mod.io, so everyone who's not okay with any questionable update can easily spot undone-mod and install it in 2 clicks.
Ye-e-e-es =|, i remember that devs didn't support modding. But why not starting???
I mean - everyone from buzz party to small, but already un-indi developers implementing mod.io, simple and easy compromise to make everyone happy.
 
Implementing a full mod API is not exactly trivial to do. They've got a lot of other work they're busy with.
 
IIRC in his default palette in Mobile, the black sigil is filled with white instead so it's less invocative of the flag. I may be remembering wrong though, since I have not played it in a while.
Your mind is playing tricks. Bassline Big Band, nor any of the other Big Band variants, never have had their Strike Up the Band blockbuster edited.
bassline.jpg

I still see people not understanding the visual formula:

Armband = fine
Red armband with tiny black symbol + German military uniform = mistaken impression "is that a Nazi?"

Why is it so hard for people to not get FC or HVS don't want to hear "is that a Nazi?" anymore?
 
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Your mind is playing tricks. Bassline Big Band, nor any of the other Big Band variants, never have had their Strike Up the Band blockbuster edited.
Thanks for checking. Yeah, I think I'm probably going crazy because I swear I have seen it with the black sigil blanked out before. Maybe I saw it somewhere else or or I was thinking of one of the alt palettes.

I still see people not understanding the visual formula:

Armband = fine
Red armband with tiny black symbol + German military uniform = mistaken impression "is that a Nazi?"

Why is it so hard for people to not get FC or HVS don't want to hear "is that a Nazi?" anymore?
The thing is the devs opted to remove the armbands completely rather than just changing the colour and design. In fact, the in-game default Parasoul palette had always had black armbands for the Black Egrets.

(This one I'm actually 100% sure about lol. Here's what it looks like from her pre-release trailer 11 years ago)


Personally I think just changing the story mode art armbands to be the same black colour would have been fine. Hell, I think it would have been thematically fitting since they are called the "Black" Egrets. But clearly the devs thought the very existence of the armbands themselves were not acceptable and decided to just remove them completely.

Additionally, other story mode arts were also edited to remove the "red background with white circle and black logo" elements, namely the flag shown in the news report and the flag held up by the Egrets both from Para's story. Both of them had the red elements desaturated to black.

para_story_changes_flags.png

Most likely Band's podiums managed to escape being changed because it's technically not a flag of the Canopy Kingdom, even though the design was probably supposed to reference it. But now that you have people pointing it out I wouldn't be surprised if it will be gone soon.
 
Implementing a full mod API is not exactly trivial to do. They've got a lot of other work they're busy with.
Honestly if they just remove the digest file or modified it so it specifically accepts older versions of the files, the uncensored ones, modders could very easily change it.
 
I gotta say, This whole story has really killed my desire to play the game. Just thinking about it makes me really depressed.
I don't feel like busting my ass practicing combos or dealing with zoners, when the original attitude and values of the
game are now seen as an embarrassment by the devs and a vocal part of the community.
After the rudeness and hostility on the Discord, and the devs calling the game they inherited "dirty socks" from "such a long time ago"
I frankly don't feel welcome in the game anymore...
 
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I gotta say, This whole story has really killed my desire to play the game. Just thinking about it makes me really depressed.
I don't feel like busting my ass practicing combos or dealing with zoners, when the original attitude and values of the
game are now seen as an embarrassment by the devs and a vocal part of the community.
After the rudeness and hostility on the Discord, and the devs calling the game they inherited "dirty socks" from "such a long time ago"
I frankly don't feel welcome in the game anymore...
That’s not how we should approach the game. People feel bothered by the changes because of the message it sends in bad faith. If the devs wanted to do this for a long time, they got their chance to do so. I’m not gonna judge the devs by their intentions, but by how they went about it. The “dirty socks“ refers to the things they wanted to change, not the game itself, and that means that they been wanting to do this for a long time but they couldn’t because they didn’t have enough money to do so. Having said that, I wish they recompense for the removed content, I don’t think it’s fair to just remove content without appropriate replacements to compensate for.
 
That’s not how we should approach the game. People feel bothered by the changes because of the message it sends in bad faith. If the devs wanted to do this for a long time, they got their chance to do so. I’m not gonna judge the devs by their intentions, but by how they went about it. The “dirty socks“ refers to the things they wanted to change, not the game itself, and that means that they been wanting to do this for a long time but they couldn’t because they didn’t have enough money to do so. Having said that, I wish they recompense for the removed content, I don’t think it’s fair to just remove content without appropriate replacements to compensate for.


"didn't had money to do so" isn't a valid excuse.


there are over TWO HUNDRED resource updates in the game's history on steam. Dozens over the last few years since the development studio changed.
A couple texture and palette changes could've been pushed in any of these, and they didn't do it.

Console patch fee is also not an excuse, since there were patches on PSN before the censorship.


There's probably some managerial, legal and/or publisher related issues that forced their hand into sanitizing the game and studio's image in a way that only a bigger corporation would actually care (less risqué = more marketability, since you can reach even younger audiences).


obs: Hey, my old account still works!
 
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"didn't had money to do so" isn't a valid excuse.


there are over TWO HUNDRED resource updates in the game's history on steam. Dozens over the last few years since the development studio changed.
A couple texture and palette changes could've been pushed in any of these, and they didn't do it.

Console patch fee is also not an excuse, since there were patches on PSN before the censorship.


There's probably some managerial, legal and/or publisher related issues that forced their hand into sanitizing the game and studio's image in a way that only a bigger corporation would actually care (less risqué = more marketability, since you can reach even younger audiences).


obs: Hey, my old account still works!
Thanks for fact-checking for me. I now realize it is a flimsy excuse I didn't mean to use for any reason, only because it was the only excuse I thought was justifiable before seeing this. This makes me realize they probably do have the money to recompensate but are too busy focusing on Marie for now.
 
I feel like the update was more personal than their official statement let on. As you guys know, the current devs fell out with the OG creators, first Alex Ahad, then Mike Z during their respective disputes. They said Alex Ahad was "difficult to work with" and Mike Z was treating them really badly. From what I seen on the steam forums like this one: https://steamcommunity.com/app/245170/discussions/0/3811785394876783126/?ctp=4 , it seemed like the current devs butted heads with the OG creators over creative choices (the content), to which Alex and Mike had the final say. They (the devs) wanted to inmplement their creative ideas into the game but as mentioned earlier, the OG creators had the final say and only implemented their ideas only for their specific vision of the game. The current devs did not want to stay second fiddle to both Alex and Mike in creative liberties regarding Skullgirls and so they kicked out both of them and are now starting to implement their ideas into the game. I say this like it is a conspiracy but with all the past controversies and the things we currently know about both Alex's and Mike's situations, it's not to far off given the evidence. I don't have any interest in endorsing this theory, it's just what's been on my mind for some time now.
 
it seemed like the current devs butted heads with the OG creators over creative choices (the content), to which Alex and Mike had the final say. They (the devs) wanted to inmplement their creative ideas into the game but as mentioned earlier, the OG creators had the final say and only implemented their ideas only for their specific vision of the game.
Where are you getting any of this from? I've never heard any mention before of creative differences within the team, the problem was Alex and Mike's behavior. This really just sounds like you're making up stories out of whole cloth.
 
Yeah that's fake news. The reason Alex was fired and Mike was removed has nothing to do with creative differences or anything to do with Skullgirls.
 
I wonder where they're going to go from here, stylistically and aesthetically speaking...
I know the "new devs" are mostly veterans who have been with the game for a long time, but Alex Ahad's style is not easy to emulate or replace and a lot of people (well, me) got into the game as a kind of "moving playable Alex Ahad artbook with motion inputs".

Not to downplay the hard (and by and large very successful) work of the devs, but imo character design is to a Fighting Game what composer is to a Broadway Musical. It's clear they've started to make bold departures from the original vision (which was always sexy, edgy and kinda dumb in a Rule of Cool sort of way). I just wonder how far they are planning to go.
In 2015 the old devs promised "no more cuts". The new devs haven't done so and they haven't laid out their own vision going ahead (if they have one yet...). If it was clear they were just putting their foot down and declaring it a matter of "no more R**e Jokes, the military guys in the WW2-era German Stahlhelms are totally not nazis, the Black guy getting beaten by monstrous cops is not meant to remind you of Black guys getting beaten by monstrous cops and Filia was totally never ever meant to be sexy no sir-ee" I think more people would be able to sigh and swallow it, like they did in 2015...

I'm reminded of the Star Wars sequels. Lots of the same people on board and everyone loved it at first for its respectful emulation of the original style, but by the end everyone was left wishing they'd left Lucas in charge... I really hope that doesn't happen here.
 
I wonder where they're going to go from here, stylistically and aesthetically speaking...
I know the "new devs" are mostly veterans who have been with the game for a long time, but Alex Ahad's style is not easy to emulate or replace and a lot of people (well, me) got into the game as a kind of "moving playable Alex Ahad artbook with motion inputs".
Alex hasn't worked on Skullgirls since 2018. A little late to be worried about that since the current team has been working on DLC characters for 3 years.
 
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Where are you getting any of this from? I've never heard any mention before of creative differences within the team, the problem was Alex and Mike's behavior. This really just sounds like you're making up stories out of whole cloth.
It's just a conspiracy I thought of (and seen from steam forums), there's nothing more to it. Like I said in my post, I won't endorse it because it's just a theory without significant evidence. it's not facts, it's just speculation.
 
It's just a conspiracy I thought of (and seen from steam forums), there's nothing more to it. Like I said in my post, I won't endorse it because it's just a theory without significant evidence. it's not facts, it's just speculation.
It's one thing to speculate where there are gaps in facts, but so-called "speculations" that ignore well-established facts are not speculations, they are misinformation. The reasons why Mike was removed from Skullgirls development is well-documented, including his own statements in support of Lab Zero in his lawsuit, which has nothing to do with creative visions. The reason for Alex's firing was also documented, and while it has not been directly collaborated by Alex himself, he has not disputed it either. There is no reason to believe these facts are false.

Intentionally posting misinformation is trolling at best, and, at worst, especially if the facts are related to other people's alleged conducts, it is defamation, both of which are against the forum rules. For this time I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you sincerely believed the false information yourself, but further spreading of false information will not be tolerated. Simply disclaiming "it's just a conspiracy I saw" is not an excuse. Have some integrity and take responsibility for what you post.
 
All I'm hearing here is "I know it's bullshit but I just wanted to knowingly bring up bullshit anyway." Why is this even something to talk about if you know it's not what actually happened?
 
Okay, I now realized my stupidity when I brought this up because I now get criticized for doing so. It was just super irrelevant stuff I got from steam forums (and even if it was partially true, it'd still be irrelevant). I want to apologize for bringing this "misinformation" up, it was nothing more than a conspiracy I happened to cook up (even if unintentionally). I do not mean to support and endorse it (quick note, I said this multple times as a disclaimor for this reason), it was just purely speculation, granted it was mislead, there's nothing more to it. Ignore what I said earlier, it had no ground on evidence and I implied this from the very start, in other words, don't assume I was intending to spread misinformation. I'm out.
 
Unconstructive post - don't do this
I just don't like it.
 
I'm leaving the above post up as a public warning. Any further new sign-ups or 1-post accounts that come here just to make a 1 sentence post will simply be deleted and may be banned. If you don't have anything meaningful to contribute, don't bother.
 
This update and the arguments has rubbed everyone involved the worst way possible. I just wish this was resolved some way because frankly it's getting a bit tiring just seeing all the heated debates happening online, especially on steam forums. I'm frankly tired of seeing it myself and I'm trying to ignore it. I'm kind of irritated about the complaints and nothing being done about it just to shut them up, but I'm not gonna blow this up into a big deal. If the update is what the devs wanted, I got nothing against them, I'm just disappointed they could have done better.
 
Alex hasn't worked on Skullgirls since 2018. A little late to be worried about that since the current team has been working on DLC characters for 3 years.
Kind of a bad argument, all the dlc content till now has been done via Alex notes and whatnot.
 
Kind of a bad argument, all the dlc content till now has been done via Alex notes and whatnot.
The point I was responding to was "Alex Ahad's style is not easy to emulate or replace". They have been doing exactly that based on Alex's notes.
 
The point I was responding to was "Alex Ahad's style is not easy to emulate or replace". They have been doing exactly that based on Alex's notes.
Correct, we have yet to see them doing the style on their own without the notes.

So you can't argue that they will be able to maintain the quality, on the various levels, for completely new content.
 
Correct, we have yet to see them doing the style on their own without the notes.

So you can't argue that they will be able to maintain the quality, on the various levels, for completely new content.
I'm not arguing that lol. You're taking to a straw man. My point is the current devs have maintained the art style since Alex left throughout the current DLC cycle. Most casual fans didn't even realise Alex already left years ago until the update blew up, and now people are patching together half-truths and misinformation to come up with all sorts of wacky ideas.
 
We don't even know what 'notes' Alex may or may not have left for them. We don't know if the new Story Modes came from anything he wrote or were written by the current team.

And frankly, does it matter? Even if Alex did leave behind years worth of prewritten scripts (which I'm kind of doubtful of considering he was fired for not getting work done on time), like okay that works too. The end result is that the team is still able to make a good game.
 
I'm not arguing that lol. You're taking to a straw man. My point is the current devs have maintained the art style since Alex left throughout the current DLC cycle. Most casual fans didn't even realise Alex already left years ago until the update blew up, and now people are patching together half-truths and misinformation to come up with all sorts of wacky ideas.
Yes, with the notes.

We have no idea if the quality will remain if they proceed with other content, like a second pass.
 
I honestly doubt that notes alone have been carrying the entire team for five whole years since Alex left and everything would suddenly fall apart completely without these hypothetical notes. You're really reaching to try and find things to doom and gloom about.
 
I didn't mean so much that they are unable to live up to Alex's style quality-wise, I'd say that's clearly not the case. The devs are all incredible artists and animators in their own right, basically on the same level as Alex. I did notice a slight difference in style with the new DLC characters, but it was small and the art was still top-notch quality-wise. Like, from a craft perspective the game will continue to look and animate like the best thing ever.

I was more concerned about the general tone and aesthetic values of the game changing, DoA 6-style. Losing its brash, teenage, horny punk energy in favour of a "well, actually Indiana Jones probably shouldn't kill so many people I mean, he's the hero and there's kids watching" kind of mentality.
Regardless of if Alex left notes (which the devs probably didn't need anyway), my point was that they continued to work in the framework that already existed in the previous style and atmosphere. They didn't obviously try to change the game's basic identity from what it was until The Update.
 
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I think it's fair to have questions regarding the lore/story and the design directions now that the original creator is no longer involved, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the art style. A vast majority of the style is from the animation side and most of the senior animation staff are still involved. You can even see that the Skullgirls style within the game itself is significantly different from concept arts drawn by Alex even after the game is released. If your priority is to have the game slavishly follow Alex's style, it never did ever since 2013. The "Skullgirls style" as seen in the game was developed as a team effort, distinctly different to the "Alex style".

But yeah, Skullgirls development is an evolving process. I have commented since Annie came out long before this controversy that the new DLC styles are a tad but noticeably different to pre-2017 development, but it's certainly not to the point that most people could tell it's a different team (which it for the most part is not). Getting hysterical about it after the content update is just silly.
 
I honestly doubt that notes alone have been carrying the entire team for five whole years since Alex left and everything would suddenly fall apart completely without these hypothetical notes. You're really reaching to try and find things to doom and gloom about.
You're underestimating the importance of direction that the notes offered.