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June 2023 Content Update Discussion Containment Thread

My better nature is telling me that I'm just tired. I wish I didn't put so much emotional/financial/time investment into this game now. The fanart I've drawn in the past. All my posts and speculation and fascination with the game's setting and story here and on other websites.
Watching this this and seeing the same art as the Double wall scroll I've had for nearly 10 years now censored just makes me retch. I just can't support this sort of behavior from the devs.
 
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I do think some censor choices are a bit silly in how they were censored as some make me think of the Mythra tights censor (my opinion on Mythra censor is ALSO that I don't care) but at the end of the day I really don't care enough since I only play this game competitively. Plus the story is unchanged and who cares. Some censors seem kind of pointless like the underwear color change since the frames are the same (they still very much look like panties so idgi the intent seems to be to make them more like shorts ig? Please keep in mind that I'm in favor of the attempt I just also don't get it, shorts under the skirt would have been a better censor though if that's what was wanted.) but I also don't really care because again, I only play the game competitively. At the end of the day the game is still pretty much a hentai game, I just hope that with this change we can finally get the announcement for the balance patch because frankly that's all I care about regarding the game.

Anyway, I support whatever changes the dev team wants to make regarding the art, if they felt that it needed to be changed I honestly don't care and if for some reason I did I'd just not play it from that point forward. Because virtually the same artists still work on this game I have to imagine this "artistic vision" people keep whining about is still kept with the remaining artists after the l0 break up so if anything they can change their artistic vision since this game still gets updates and we all grow and change as we get older and decide we don't like the old stuff we did or no longer find it appropriate and would rather not be associated with it anymore and that's fine.

Personally I think the censors are really minor and frankly pretty benign, I can appreciate the removal of the arm bands (NOTE: I think this is a GOOD change please don't get it twisted). As far as I'm concerned the Renoirs are still shitty without the nazi imagery so thumbs up.

I also wanted to ask since some stuff was touched up, does that mean the dev team would be okay with fixing lighting errors on the sprites? Some of them really bug me like Annie's time out animation, the lighting looks fragmented which really irks me.

Oh and will the armbands change in the webcomic? I don't remember if they ever had any but I'm curious.

The bold part is what I care about atm.

[I'd like to reiterate that I'm in favor of the changes.]
 
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Wow.
That escalated quickly.
I'm not sure about the changes yet. Though, I understand that some of them had a point.
But I certainly don't like the fact that some of the guest arts were taken away. Not cool.
Also, it would be very nice if the dev team would announce it beforehand, and not after the fact.
 
Though I think them locking the announce and updating right away is a slap to the community esp since they always pretend to be an open dev team. it feels like They know what they're doing is controversial and don't want to hear it.
Just to point out, all the dev update posts here are generally locked for reply, so it's not uncommon practice. We're free to talk about it here and this is the official forum.

Yanno, though, I'm honestly a lil surprised people are getting so upset. Not like insulting, just curious, s'all. Like, isn't this pretty much in line with that update years back with removing the underwear shots of multiple characters? That was for the better too.
People also got hella mad when that change was made, and that change was a lot more minor lol. It was 100% expected that the general reaction of the community will be like this. I'm sure the devs have anticipated it.

Honestly, the only reason we felt these weren't gonna be implemented is resources. Redrawing shit n all that takes a lotta resources, we're honestly impressed the steps are bein' taken to adjusting a buncha stuff in the game.
As I mentioned earlier, the writings have been on the wall for a while. Since the Annie update, they have been implementing several minor censorship changes, both announced and unannounced. In the past, more complex changes especially to character art have been avoided, presumably because of the costs. But then along came the new Val changes where they are clearly spending hundreds of manhours and tons of money to make significant changes to game sprites. When I saw that announcement I was sure they were gonna take that opportunity to make wider sweeping content changes.

My better nature is telling me that I'm just tired. I wish I didn't put so much emotional/financial/time investment into this game now. The fanart I've drawn in the past. All my posts and speculation and fascination with the game's setting and story here and on other websites.
I emphathise with your feeling and I've had similar thoughts in the past due to past content changes in the game, back from the original Val cross change. It's not really up to me or anyone to tell you how you should feel about it. But in the end, I think the core of what got me into SG in the first place is mostly still intact and I'm still a fan, despite disagreeing with a lot of the recent changes (cough, Robo and Fukua, cough). I mean, there is probably a limit somewhere on how much the game could change before I stop caring about it, but we're not there (yet?).

Cutting to the core of it, the changes are 100% to make the game more marketable and advertising-friendly. While I don't agree with sweeping content censorships, I can understand and respect the devs' decision to do it. In the end, game development is a business, and devs gotta eat. We're long past the point where SG was the little indie game that could, and they need to expand the market to newer players through new channels to keep the business profitable. If they think that these changes were worth the time and money to achieve that goal, it is how it is. I don't think it's a coincidence that this change was pushed out right before the new Xbox port that's supposed to drop very soon.

I think my one question is, was it really worth it? I don't think SG will ever be divorced of its quote-unquote "problematic" roots and plenty of contents that some people find objectionable remain in the game. How much have the changes actually convinced people who otherwise would not have got the game to get it? How many long-term fans, for good reasons or otherwise, will disengage from the franchise because of it? I guess time will tell.

I do think some censor choices are a bit silly in how they were censored as some make me think of the Mythra tights censor (my opinion on Mythra censor is ALSO that I don't care) but at the end of the day I really don't care enough since I only play this game competitively. Plus the story is unchanged and who cares. Some censors seem kind of pointless like the underwear color change since the frames are the same (they still very much look like panties so idgi the intent seems to be to make them more like shorts ig? Please keep in mind that I'm in favor of the attempt I just also don't get it, shorts under the skirt would have been a better censor though if that's what was wanted.) but I also don't really care because again, I only play the game competitively. At the end of the day the game is still pretty much a hentai game, I just hope that with this change we can finally get the announcement for the balance patch because frankly that's all I care about regarding the game.
I hope they don't announce the balance patch yet at least in the next couple of weeks. I already got way too many pissed-off people to deal with lol I don't need any more. :P /hj

Honestly, the change I found the most baffling was Band's story change. Regardless of my opinions on them, at least things like Filia's design, the Egrets, certain voice lines, etc., were actually things I have seen people complain about with some consistency. I like to think I keep pretty abreast of SG fandom topics of discussion, but "Band getting beat up is possibly a parallel to real-life police racial violence" is one I literally never heard of. But now everybody is talking about it. Definitely feels like a Streisand Effect moment.
 
The Ben Birdland beatdown is way too violent, especially that gory aftermath frame with his twisted legs in a pool of splattered blood. Now, like Peacock's mutilation, the violence has to be imagined by the viewer. Which kind of works better, like in good horror films, the unseen monster is scarier.

- - -

I'm on the side of "if the author is making the revision, it isn't censorship" and I'm fine with most of the changes. I want to return to the start, the reason why it is happening (again).
In light of recent events:

Is it wrong of me to assume such changes bode well for a substantial future for Skullgirls? :D
As in like, beyond Marie.

THREE REASONS

Artistic integrity
People, and their sensibilities, change over 11 years. Any artist would cringe at their work from a decade ago (I know I do) and the devs have the rare opportunity to refine it.

Dressing up to go to market
The new coat of polish and sanded edges are in efforts of encouraging investors.

Twitter psychopath "logic"
They have weakly surrendered to the far-left liberal cult agenda. Filia changing her underwear colors to a darker tone to match her skirt or leggings is clearly a coded message from the shadow cabal and never an artistic choice to make the panty shots less flashy and noticeable. There must be an insidious motive here, sheeple!

- - -

The guest art removal is the result of it being wrong to try to "fix" whatever is found unfavorable because they are not the author. Can't be revised, so it had to be removed from the in-game gallery. Sad it is gone, but it is understandable.

I'm glad the armbands are gone. That was a level of edge this game should never have had.
Arm bands removed from story art stills and Black Egrets sure, but from what I see from Parasoul's palette folder, many of the bands remain, only the little umbrella logo has been removed. I haven't had a chance to test it in-game (console), but it is true for mobile (e.g. High Ruler and Princess Pride).
 
The Ben Birdland beatdown is way too violent, especially that gory aftermath frame with his twisted legs in a pool of splattered blood. Now, like Peacock's mutilation, the violence has to be imagined by the viewer. Which kind of works better, like in good horror films, the unseen monster is scarier.
Yeah, if the change was given the reason that it was more graphic than they are comfortable with, I don't think most people would have bat an eyelid. But it was specifically stated that it was removed due to "references to racial violence in Big Band’s Story Mode" and filed under Racial Sensitivity, which I (and it seems a few others) found a bit strange.

I'm on the side of "if the author is making the revision, it isn't censorship" and I'm fine with most of the changes.
I mean, "censorship" is normally used as a dirty word, but censorship isn't necessarily a bad thing. If there are graphic pictures or footages of real-life events that are newsworthy, like shootings or natural disasters, should they not be censored before being shown in the news to the wider public? I think most reasonable people would agree they should.

I think we can call the changes for what they are - censorship. I don't think that should imply if it is a positive or negative change. That's for each person to make their own judgement.
 
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I see they are trying to clean up SG and make it a bit more mainstream but removing art from the digital artbook people already paid for is bad.
 
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That's been free for a good while hasn't it?

Or added to season pass or whatever?
 
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I don't really have much a stake in this latest update given I haven't touched the game in years but this is a hell of a way to wake up and see that SG was trending on social media.

The Ben Birdland beatdown is way too violent, especially that gory aftermath frame with his twisted legs in a pool of splattered blood. Now, like Peacock's mutilation, the violence has to be imagined by the viewer. Which kind of works better, like in good horror films, the unseen monster is scarier.
I disagree that "the unseen monster is scarier" works in this case, or rather the "unseen monster" was already utilized but differntly. For Peacock it was preferable because she's a young girl and the mutilation she suffered wouldn't be kosher to anyone. But Ben's beatdown was already given due consideration by conveying the extent of the damage done to him through his mangled legs while covering the rest. If anything that was the unseen monster, the remaining damage that left him unable to survive without a mechanized iron lung. I also felt it was appropriate that we got an idea for the sheer brutality of that moment because of the comparisons to Robocop's origin which was even more graphic. Ultimately it was two art pieces that were concise but effective and it is a shame that the developers felt that there was a concern for race at all.
 
I'm on the side of "if the author is making the revision, it isn't censorship" and I'm fine with most of the changes. I want to return to the start, the reason why it is happening (again).
Well these aren't the original authors are they? I find it lame when other people meddle with the original work. If this was a new game I wouldn't mind so much.
 
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That's been free for a good while hasn't it?

Or added to season pass or whatever?
It's free if you buy the Season Pass but it's a paid product that you could buy by itself.

Well these aren't the original authors are they? I find it lame when other people meddle with the original work. If this was a new game I wouldn't mind so much.
Most of the senior art team are the same people as those who made the game originally. Obviously there have been some changes but that's normal for any company.
 
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I agree with removing the armbands, though I didn't realize that they are the source of hate culture in real life. But what I'm very displeased about this is that some of the art have been censored and four of them have been removed from the gallery. That's just messed up and just not cool to censor some of the art and remove four of them from the gallery.
 
It would've been in poor form to redraw someone else's guest art. All of those pieces are still archived on the wiki though, it's not like it's been erased from the internet forever. If you want it you can go find it.
 
I don't fully agree with some parts - maybe find somewhere else to archive the guest art, it's not like removing it from the game removes them from history and people will find SG's edgier past if they wanna - but man depending on what sprites they edit, I'm kinda glad the game will be slightly easier to play with other people around. It was easier to justify Bayonetta in the past than this when friends want to watch me play something.

Also yeah, it's mostly the old staff, it's not like Future Club is entirely fresh faces. If they wanted to do this for a long time now, nothing against it.
 
Nothing can have any teeth these days, huh? So much for artistic integrity. You must kowtow and change anything even a little shocking to fit in and be the same as everything else. I hope appeasing people on twitter who don't buy or play your game was a good tradeoff for losing any goodwill from your fans. Oh wait? That already happened when a certain guy got cancelled.
 
People also got hella mad when that change was made, and that change was a lot more minor lol. It was 100% expected that the general reaction of the community will be like this. I'm sure the devs have anticipated it.
Well certainly, yes, but I remember the general consensus being "Whoever is getting mad at this change is kind of a loser" or "gamers upset and cry censorship when devs make personal change they don't agree with". ...Granted, was skullheart down at that time? We don't remember, but we don't remember seeing the actual skullgirls fans we interact with upset. It was around that time where there was a lot of antiprogressive complaining from people so like, people flooding in to complain about it. (Much like what we can easily see "new members" reacting to the change on skullgirls mobile thread or the steam page :P)
I think my one question is, was it really worth it?
Speaking as someone who's been here for 10 stinking years (made the account in 2013), we'd say... yeah! pretty much!

Listen, we haven't been the greatest person ever in the past, on just this forum alone we have said things that we would be greatly disappointed by as an adult. But we did something the skullgirls team is also doing: Growing up.

There's a comment someone left on our tumblr post discussing the changes and we think it really sums up our feelings on the whole ordeal:
1687903949965.png


There's a reason why the term "exploitative" was used to describe some of the content being removed. Because it was... harmful! Bad! Actively! This isn't slightly too much self expression or sexuality, it's just... assisting in creating a hostile environment!

Now Skullgirls can be generically cringy instead of "actively cringe and feel bad talking about it to others because I remember Filia's story mode" cringey


Nothing can have any teeth these days, huh? So much for artistic integrity. You must kowtow and change anything even a little shocking to fit in and be the same as everything else. I hope appeasing people on twitter who don't buy or play your game was a good tradeoff for losing any goodwill from your fans. Oh wait? That already happened when a certain guy got cancelled.
Oh my God are you actually siding with Mike Z??? Jesus christ dude. It was embarrassing enough when you were using "cucked" unironically, now you're holding up people that caused so much harm to others?? That feels genuinely reportable, good god

See that kinda behavior is why we hadn't been on this forum for awhile. Jeez :/
 
Well certainly, yes, but I remember the general consensus being "Whoever is getting mad at this change is kind of a loser" or "gamers upset and cry censorship when devs make personal change they don't agree with". ...Granted, was skullheart down at that time? We don't remember, but we don't remember seeing the actual skullgirls fans we interact with upset. It was around that time where there was a lot of antiprogressive complaining from people so like, people flooding in to complain about it. (Much like what we can easily see "new members" reacting to the change on skullgirls mobile thread or the steam page :P)

Speaking as someone who's been here for 10 stinking years (made the account in 2013), we'd say... yeah! pretty much!

Listen, we haven't been the greatest person ever in the past, on just this forum alone we have said things that we would be greatly disappointed by as an adult. But we did something the skullgirls team is also doing: Growing up.

There's a comment someone left on our tumblr post discussing the changes and we think it really sums up our feelings on the whole ordeal:
View attachment 17070

There's a reason why the term "exploitative" was used to describe some of the content being removed. Because it was... harmful! Bad! Actively! This isn't slightly too much self expression or sexuality, it's just... assisting in creating a hostile environment!

Now Skullgirls can be generically cringy instead of "actively cringe and feel bad talking about it to others because I remember Filia's story mode" cringey



Oh my God are you actually siding with Mike Z??? Jesus christ dude. It was embarrassing enough when you were using "cucked" unironically, now you're holding up people that caused so much harm to others?? That feels genuinely reportable, good god

See that kinda behavior is why we hadn't been on this forum for awhile. Jeez :/
Don't try and pretend that ousting Mike wasn't just a power play, EVERYONE knows this now, its embarrassing on your part that you don't admit that. IT is common knowledge that you guys ruined him over nothing and I wish you all nothing but the worst. Also god forbid I get banned again from a fourm I haven't used in almost a decade, for a game I got bored of after 300+ hours.
 
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Some of these changes I can get behind (such as the "barely legal" combo text), but others are just dumb. Why go through all that work to change Filia's art (and in some cases outright remove it), when you can just... do a simple find-and-replace with the text to change her age to something higher? It's not like being 16 is actually important to the lore, and in fact changing her age would be so much better regardless because she's still heavily sexualized even after the edits they made. Or better yet, make all underage characters 18 (aside from Umbrella and Annie, who weren't sexualized to begin with). That would solve the issue of Big Band's intro line too.

The Big Band story change is even dumber because the violence wasn't even racial to begin with. He was attacked because he was a good cop surrounded by crooked cops bought by the mob. The racial aspect didn't even exist until someone pulled it out of thin air.

As for the Soviet announcer, I do agree that removing Mike's voice is probably for the best, but I hope it gets rerecorded by someone else and put back in the game instead of just being permanently gone (IMO they should've done that first before removing Mike's lines, since it's not like this was a super urgent matter or anything).
 
I hope appeasing people on twitter who don't buy or play your game was a good tradeoff for losing any goodwill from your fans.
The people throwing tantrums are the ones who don't even play the game.

You have two posts on this whole forum and they're both just crying about this.
 
Now Skullgirls can be generically cringy instead of "actively cringe and feel bad talking about it to others because I remember Filia's story mode" cringey
YEAH BASICALLY THAT, I had that specific part in mind more than anything
how the hell do you recommend a game to non FGC fans when the first story mode starts that way?

Plenty of games out there are pretty horny, old SG just crossed lines a little too often.
 
The people throwing tantrums are the ones who don't even play the game.

You have two posts on this whole forum and they're both just crying about this.
Thats because I haven't used this fourm in over a decade. I was actually quite active here before I shitposted a little too hard for you guys. I have 400 hours in this game. Not to mention all the copies of this game that I had given away on stream and anonymously. So shove it, asskisser.
 
despite disagreeing with a lot of the recent changes (cough, Robo and Fukua, cough)
How could you :PUN:
Fukua was always canon.

Yeah, if the change was given the reason that it was more graphic than they are comfortable with, I don't think most people would have bat an eyelid. But it was specifically stated that it was removed due to "references to racial violence in Big Band’s Story Mode" and filed under Racial Sensitivity, which I (and it seems a few others) found a bit strange.
That was the weirdest part for me too.

Also, wasn't there a feral cop who participated in beating up Ben? Wasn't there an implication that Canopy Kingdom still has some prejudice against ferals? That situation looks even weirder, considering that.

Maybe the devs were trying to play it as safe as possible, I don't know.

The people throwing tantrums are the ones who don't even play the game.
Reminds me of the story with the Annie achievement, really.
And I still think that the devs should have prioritised people who bought the Season Pass and got the achievement, instead of the ones who would never play it again.

Oh my God are you actually siding with Mike Z???
Maybe it's the man himself.
He have changed, you know.
 
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Just to be safe, censoring some of the art did not stop me because I always respect their decision and not act like darn babies. It's just crap that censoring some of the art is irrelevant to what's really important to me on the basis on doing such. Even racial violence against a black cop? That's sounds impermanent.
 
So shove it, asskisser.
Quit it with the personal insults. This is your first and last warning.

EDIT:

Additional moderation message regarding discussion on the Content Update and Mike Zaimont:

Okay, the topic is veering into Mike and what he might have or not have done. This is my personal plan of action as a third-party moderator here. I am not affiliated with Autumn Games, Hidden Variable Studio, Future Club, or any past devs of Skullgirls.

This current discussion topic is related to the recent content changes announced by the devs. I'm keeping this line of discussion open so users can voice their support, disagreement, feedback, and general discussion of the merits or lack thereof of the relevant changes. However; do note that this topic is actually not something is forum was designed to include. You can see here that this thread is actually in the subforum "Story & Skullgirls Universe". There is no General topic chat or art-related subforum on Skullheart, by design.

However; and this is my personal opinion as a third-party moderator, I think this is a relevant topic to the fandom and I believe we should have a proper, well-moderated place to voice our opinions on changes to and the future of the game we all love. So I'm spending my personal time making sure things stay in line. If things get out of hand, I don't have any other option but to do a lock-down on this topic.

Regarding Mike Z, we have all seen the allegations against him, and there are documentations of his responses available online. Everyone is free to review all the available information and come to your own conclusions. The parties involved are disputing each other's claims in an ongoing lawsuit which has not been resolved. It's not appropriate for me to say anything one way or another about this, as a moderator.

However, the topic of Mike Z is completely irrelevant to the topic of the Content Update. He is no longer involved with this game's development and speculations whether things would be different with or without him is frivolous at best.

So, any further discussions on Mike Z will be considered off-topic, and further posts discussing that may be moderated or deleted, and their respective posters will be warned. Any repeat offences may result in more severe moderator actions.

EDIT2: I also want to point out I'm not the only moderator on this forum. Other moderators or admins may have different criteria for applying the rules and can take their own actions.
 
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So, any further discussions on Mike Z will be considered off-topic, and further posts discussing that may be moderated or deleted, and their respective posters will be warned. Any repeat offences may result in more severe moderator actions.
Just out of curiosity, does this apply to discussion of the removal of the Soviet announcer? Because that was his voice that was removed, and the predominant theory as to why is that it's because he voiced that announcer (bolstered by the fact that the game reverts to the default announcer for the Season 1 characters, as he is unable to voice additional names).
 
Just out of curiosity, does this apply to discussion of the removal of the Soviet announcer? Because that was his voice that was removed, and the predominant theory as to why is that it's because he voiced that announcer (bolstered by the fact that the game reverts to the default announcer for the Season 1 characters, as he is unable to voice additional names).
You can discuss the removal of the Soviet announcer yeah. Mike being removed from SG development is a fact, but discussions on his conduct and the events around his removal would be considered off-topic.

So for example, these are fine:

- I think the Soviet Announcer should have been removed because Mike is gone and the game should have nothing to do with him
- I think the Soviet Announcer should not have been removed even though Mike is gone because I don't like that content is removed

These are not fine:

- Soviet Announcer should have been removed because Mike is a terrible person who harassed people and treated his friends badly
- Soviet Announcer should not have been removed because Mike did nothing wrong

Hope that's clear

EDIT: To make it extra clear, this extends to other devs or people involved with the game as well. Whatever you think of any of the devs as person or group have no bearing on the content update in and of itself. Criticise the ideas, not the people.
 
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Maybe removal of the Soviet Announcer has no relation to Mike at all.
Maybe they were just trying to play it safe, because it might look tasteless right now.
 
There's a comment someone left on our tumblr post discussing the changes and we think it really sums up our feelings on the whole ordeal:
View attachment 17070
I mean, yeah, I love SG and I hope that at least this change will at least be worth it if it helps the game sell better in the future, but that comment itself is exactly the kinda thing that I was worried about lol. "This game will still always be embarrassing". Yeah, they removed some stuff that were turning off some people, but the game still retain most of the stuff that were stopping many people from buying it in the first place.

Most of the praises I have seen on the decision came from people who have already got in the game anyway. I'm not sure I've seen any significant voices in the along the line of "oh yeah, I didn't want to buy this game before but now I'm gonna pick it up cause of this change". Or maybe there are?

I think the more significant effect would be if this change allow them to use advertising channels they might not have been able to used before because of certain visuals in the game. If it helps increase the exposure for the game, I think that would be the best result I could hope for.

Maybe removal of the Soviet Announcer has no relation to Mike at all.
Maybe they were just trying to play it safe, because it might look tasteless right now.
I've heard this theory being floated around but I kinda doubt it. Even Nintendo, a company who plays things super safe, stopped the release of the Advance Wars remake at the beginning of the war, but now has basically decided that the controversy is way past and allowed the release of the game. Other references to Mike in the game have already been scrubbed before, it seems more likely that they are just finishing the job.
 
There's also the fact that Soviet Announcer is missing lines for all the new DLC characters, and can never be updated to add them.
 
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Will they bring back the soviet announcer if they have someone else voice it? I don't use it myself but it's kind of a disservice to those who backed it financially and those who want to use it. Also, the devs could have avoided this whole controversy (that they knew was gonna happen) if they added a censor toggle for it. No disrespect, just saying.
 
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There's also the fact that Soviet Announcer is missing lines for all the new DLC characters, and can never be updated to add them.
Yeah that's a good point. The more new characters are released the less complete the voice pack is. And then new people will start questioning why this particular voice pack isn't being updated, which is gonna be difficult for the current devs to answer.

Will they bring back the soviet announcer if they have someone else voice it?
I highly doubt it. The whole point of the pack was that it was the funny Russian accent Mike used to do when he made tutorial videos for Pot and Tager in GG and BB respectively. For better or worse it's his thing. Having it re-recorded is likely gonna open a whole can of worms.

I don't use it myself but it's kind of a disservice to those who backed it financially and those who want to use it. Also, the devs could have avoided this whole controversy (that they knew was gonna happen) if they added a censor toggle for it. No disrespect, just saying.
I think that's the biggest issue with removing it yeah, since it was a crowdbacking reward tier. Also, the point of the exercise is to remove things they think will cause problems. Having a toggle means they are still in the game, which defeats the whole purpose.
 
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Honestly, I'm just more baffled as to why now and why these changes? I mean, we're currently 3 characters and story modes deep into the season pass and suddenly they make changes for Filia's hair, Big Band's story art, and the art comp? Granted, they are minor changes sure, but I feel they should have been more open towards the community. If they said "Hey, you guys can vote on this issue" or "Let us know in the comments about these changes before we implement them" things would be fine.

Stranger still, didn't we just have a story mode in which Black Dahlia and her gang of scantily-clad bunny girls go on a murder spree, kill Eliza, Vitale, Lorenzo, and many others, all set in a nightclub and later a grotesque hell-dimension? Why make these changes now? Wouldn't it make more sense to start making changes immediately before you do anything with the stories?

Don't get me wrong, I believe the devs could have handled this better and should make appropriate changes to satisfy those upset by them-- like returning Big Band's story, redesigning the Egret bands, and restoring the art comp. I'm still very much excited for Marie and what else is to come and I hope this is beneficial down the road, but the devs-- as much I have been enjoying their stuff-- should respond to this and be more careful with changes next time.
 
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Stranger still, didn't we just have a story mode in which Black Dahlia and her gang of scantily-clad bunny girls go on a murder spree, kill Eliza, Vitale, Lorenzo, and many others, all set in a nightclub and later a grotesque hell-dimension? Why make these changes now? Wouldn't it make more sense to start making changes immediately before you do anything with the stories?
They're all explicitly adults(I think? at least Bookie implies they're all old enough for cover jobs), Filia is school-aged.

I was sure she's 16 but since there's no such info in the wiki, just going with the official description.
 
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They're all explicitly adults(I think? at least Bookie implies they're all old enough for cover jobs), Filia is school-aged.

I was sure she's 16 but since there's no such info in the wiki, just going with the official description.
You're right on that. I'm saying that these changes come right after story modes that have been pretty par for the course for Skullgirls. Violence, lore, attractive women doing insane stuff-- it's not like these changes were the very first things they implemented in the game. I admit that it should have been handled better and I agree that they should revert these changes, but I'm just tired of people on both sides screaming their heads off over it. There are people who believe Skullgirls should die or should stay dead and they're giving their opinion. What are they doing here then? If they hate the game so much, why even bother?

I genuinely am excited for what Skullgirls has in store and I hope this all blows over and the only thing that comes out of it is just people blowing hot air online at each other.
 
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They're all explicitly adults(I think? at least Bookie implies they're all old enough for cover jobs), Filia is school-aged.

I was sure she's 16 but since there's no such info in the wiki, just going with the official description.
Yeah like our logic with this whole situation is that art, and media, etc. are sort of like conversations.

The game essentially "asks" you to find the bunnygirls attractive. Things such as dialogue, camera framing, actions, etc. can imply to a watcher/player that these are entities you're meant to find sexy. And this is alright! They're adults and seem to be happy doing this.

What's not cool is, say, the framing of the camera originally in Filia's story mode. She's being sexually harassed, and the framing is "asking" the watcher/player to oogle her with the harasser. That's already something, but her being school aged and in school uniform bumps that up another tier past comfort. That's a real problem in life that can fuel super gross mentalities! That's why it's a damaging thing to communicate.

I do hate to say that these things come in "tiers" but... they do, genuinely, they really REALLY do.

To circle back to the armbands, it's not necessarily the armbands that are the problem: It's having the armbands AND the story asking you to sympathize/like characters who wear them. You're meant to like Parasoul, even while she's leading a bunch of military men in red armbands. THAT is asking a lot for people who still experience violence from hate groups, AND get their trauma brushed aside daily.

To us, actively including elements in a game (Still being sold!) makes a statement, and, overtuned or not, removing elements also makes a statement. And we gotta be honest: we're a lot lot more receptive to the current statement then the last one.

(also, and maybe this is just us after being harassed by actual thousands of fans on twitter after saying maybe something insensitive should be changed in a video game, we have massive respect to a game studio who makes the change on their own terms, not even needing to be asked for it. That to us communicates a care for quality and respect to the audience, idk.)
 
What a mess, geez. The changes are very evidently defense tactics to protect themselves from being targeted for political insensitiveness, racial appropriation, and sexual inappropriateness. However, they missed the obvious fact that people get irrationally mad on the internet over removed content, regardless of what it is.

Some stuff was always cringe, even 10 years ago. Filia's grope was yuck regardless of her being canonically underage or not. Always was. And that was partially the point. It was a setup to show she has a parasite who protects her. It's a basic narrative device. As time's changed, it's now seen as even more heavy handed and uncomfortable than it once was. You can serve the same narrative benefits by doing this in other ways. Just not showing the gratuitous grope already makes it less bad. Sexy stuff is cool, but on a cheap sexual assault plot device it just comes off in bad taste. Tweaking this makes perfect sense.

The armbands are kinda cringe and kinda whatever - they're used in other contexts too, like the typical Japanese chief armbands used everywhere (e.g. Suzumiya Haruhi). No one made a fuss about them, but you can see how at some point they might, with the war continuing to escalate and its resemblance to the soviet iconography. Same for Mike's voice pack. It's absolutely understandable why they'd want to take this off, and it really doesn't impact anything substantially. Parasoul's default palette doesn't even have the armband.

Other stuff gets more needless, and I think it's what added the main fuel to the fire. More tentacles to hide minimal skin exposure that wasn't even particularly sexy, nonsensical panty recolor, comb gone. It generated a ton of comparison images that people are using to make the ridiculous claims about censorship and driving this whole fiasco.

I think the best move for them might be to walk back the entire update. It has generated such disproportional backlash that it probably outweighs any negative feedback they could've gotten from any of the things changed. Make it seem like you're listening to the community, and try to calm down the people overreacting.
 
First things first - I don't use forums, hence why I only registered now to make this post, but I wanted to say something about the current update issue, and this seems to be the place where I won't be screaming into the void.

First, I can call myself an old fan of Skullgirls. I remember this game back when it was on Kickstarter, and I have an Endless Beta on my Steam account that hasn't been launched since 2014. I've seen all the drama this game was dragged through. And I see people now make a fuss about this update, mostly pondering one question - why.

I think I have an answer. No, it's not related to any specific agendas or any such thing. The real issue, I believe, is the state Skullgirls found itself in at this point.
Skullgirls was largely developed by two people, MikeZ and Alex Ahad. Mike handled the gameplay, Alex handled the art. Many other people joined later, but at its core, Skullgirls was the brainchild of those two, and Alex specifically, because he gave the game its distinct art style and atmosphere, as well as the story.
As you might know, Alex left the development quite a few years ago, and it was a nasty breakup. There was a court case, and he walked away with an undisclosed settlement. Obviously, this was a big blow for the development team - like I said, he was the art guy. And without him, how do you expand the franchise that still has places to go?

When you can't go deeper, your only option is to go wider. Give the license to other people, and see what they make of it. It was successful for many other indie games, Cuphead being a clear example. You can't just put your new characters alongside Alex's in the game because that would look... bootleg-ish, but you can do that in other media done by other artists. Basically, Skullgirls needs to become a multimedia franchise.

There is one hiccup though - Skullgirls is raunchy. It has girls in purposefully lewd costumes, violence, and a lot of dark themes. And not in the conventional "haha look how silly this is" way you'd find in modern adult animation.
So if you, for instance, wanted to make a cartoon for the general audience, this NEEDS to be toned down. Not just Filia's panty shots or what have you, but everything - unsavory references, gore, etc. For instance, a scene where a pig cop beats up a black man on the street might bother your future partners. And so would an entire faction of people wearing pretty unambiguous red-on-black armbands. It's not something you'd want in your new marketable (and cartoony, which is very important) media franchise, especially if there's even a chance that you could sell it to the kids.

And so, the editing process begins. Butts covered, armbands removed, beaten black men moved out of frame. Nice and clean. And naturally, you can't just deliver this to your current audience as-is, they'll call you a corporate sellout. And this is not the reputation you'd want for your co-op indie development team with a goddamn rainbow on their logo. So, you spin it as much as you can. For example, you can say that your creative vision has shifted, and certain content has undermined the many things that make Skullgirls truly unique and special. Of course, this is all hogwash and you know it, but your friends at Polygon will do their best to sell it, and it doesn't really matter who buys it as long as the future financial partners do. The future for Skullgirls is brighter than ever indeed.


tl;dr - Do not assume complex agendas in places where good old-fashioned corporate greed can explain everything.
 
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Having a toggle means they are still in the game, which defeats the whole purpose.
If it still pleases everyone (fans and the sensitive audience alike) in the long run, I don't think it matters wether or not it's in the game.
 
That's a real problem in life that can fuel super gross mentalities! That's why it's a damaging thing to communicate.
so the berserk manga is damaging because of things it communicates? it's not even like sg was portraying that act as good thing in the first place. how do you explain the shantae series when shes the same age a filia and blatantly sexualised? why not just age up filia and pain wheel? and the comb? no one was bothered by the comb yet that had to go for some reason?
"haha look how silly this is" way you'd find in modern adult animation.
So if you, for instance, wanted to make a cartoon for the general audience, this NEEDS to be toned down. Not just Filia's panty shots or what have you, but everything - unsavory references, gore
invincible was able to get away with gore no reason skullgirls couldn't plus there are a bunch of anime that have panty shots. the megaman battle network anime has blatant fanservice and Capcom recently uploaded every episode to their youtube channel unedited
If it still pleases everyone (fans and the sensitive audience alike) in the long run, I don't think it matters wether or not it's in the game.

exactly just have the censored version on by default. bayo 3 had a toggle, no reason it wouldn't work for this game,
 
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The last time a few frames were redrawn, they explained that implementing a toggle to put them back would be a lot more work to maintain than you'd think. They didn't do it then and won't do it now.