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Mashing Supers

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Pali

Pali

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Why is top level play in skullgirls people mashing out supers and getting a BNB from it?!?

I don't think high level in any other game has that type of play, in my opinion i can see how certain crowds aren't interested in the game when they have to deal with that among other things in skullgirls. Also character balance, in my opinion vanilla skullgirls was most balanced since everyone had high damage and potential to fuck you up with a hit. Since this version is "reset" heavy that only leads to filia being better and just add on some booboo ass lockdown assist for 4-5 overheads in a row that you have to take, i don't like having to pick up a bullshit character just because shes good.
 
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This is a dead serious topic, i can upload tournament footage recently and show my theory is truth.
 
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Idk man when I play with Woofly and Peck none of us regularly benefit from mashing out supers (other than Peck's Bella 360s, but that was around in SDE and Vanilla too) and I'm not exactly top 8 material. Hitstop is still balls though.
 
Option A: Deal with it
Option B: Pick Filia.

Choose one.

there's a reason why everyone puts Filia at the top of the tier list now.
 
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Dagwood said:
Option A: Deal with it
Option B: Pick Filia.

Choose one.
I don't wanna deal with it, i wanna be like the people who complained about HK hornet bomber i want it patched up and fixed.
 
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konkrete said:
The alternative is what it is before, where if person a mashes super, person b is able to counter super, which led to a combo anyway.
depends on which character you're using, some supers lose to others.
 
Pali said:
Why is top level play in skullgirls people mashing out supers and getting a BNB from it?!?
If you don't bait their mash correctly you get punished.
If you bait their mash correctly and make them whiff you made them waste a bar and get a full punish.
 
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Pali said:
depends on which character you're using, some supers lose to others.
Well yeah, but it all "depends." Not all characters get combos off of supers, and you need to be anywhere but not right up close to be able to react against a super.
 
What would tournament footage prove? We start at Top 8 or Top 16 when everybody enters and the skill level of players is from new to veteran fighting game players.

Oh shit, the vet is taking advantage of the noobie's tourney nerves and is inputting super expecting a drop.
Oh shit, the new guy is in panic mode inputting super hoping the vet doesn't expect it.
 
Serious question, how long have you been playing encore? I swear, people pick it up for a few days and think they know everything. =/

It's not vanilla/SDE anymore, deal with it.
 
Mr. X said:
What would tournament footage prove? We start at Top 8 or Top 16 when everybody enters and the skill level of players is from new to veteran fighting game players.

Oh shit, the vet is taking advantage of the noobie's tourney nerves and is inputting super expecting a drop.
Oh shit, the new guy is in panic mode inputting super hoping the vet doesn't expect it.

Lol you're trying to make it sound more technical than it is, mashing super is not a skillful thing so don't try to make it sound like it.
 
The meta right now is similar to early SSF4...

Just bait it, you can block and punish, PBGC, reset and read the mash and punish accordingly.

The game gives you plenty of tools to not put yourself in that situation.

Even then the game is hella scummy, but thats just how it is I guess.
 
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Pali said:
I don't wanna deal with it, i wanna be like the people who complained about HK hornet bomber i want it patched up and fixed.
Burst bait their mashing.

Kind of like safe jumping/Os'ing people who love to mash.(Unless your name is Mu. Seriously, FUUUCCKK Origins.)
 
I've just been testing the waters online.

I just do the reset, but instead of button I just block.

If niggas are pressing buttons I burst bait the next time.

I am being so sincere right now when I say the most "mashy" character I have seen so far is Fortune.

Just LOOOVEESS to hit that air jab when getting air reset.
 
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keninblack said:
The meta right now is similar to early SSF4...

Just bait it, you can block and punish, PBGC, reset and read the mash and punish accordingly.

The game gives you plenty of tools to not put yourself in that situation.

Even then the game is hella scummy, but thats just how it is I guess.

You will eventually always get in that situation unless you're just dominating the whole match. This game is like a worse umvc3 you kill the point char you'll pretty much always win, especially if you have a good lockdown assist.
 
Pali said:
You will eventually always get in that situation unless you're just dominating the whole match. This game is like a worse umvc3 you kill the point char you'll pretty much always win, especially if you have a good lockdown assist.

Not if you bait the mash though, safe dhcs are just something you have to deal with though :/

And yeah thats true, its a lot like MVC2 in that sense. The best thing you can do is make sure you're equipped with meter and a strong solo anchor.

I'm not really arguing though, because this game is scummy as fuck and you bring up good points. I just seem to like the scum haha.
 
keninblack said:
Not if you bait the mash though, safe dhcs are just something you have to deal with though :/

And yeah thats true, its a lot like MVC2 in that sense. The best thing you can do is make sure you're equipped with meter and a strong solo anchor.

I'm not really arguing though, because this game is scummy as fuck and you bring up good points. I just seem to like the scum haha.

I don't mind the scumbag stuff when i'm the one doing it, but if i'm not using the character ofc i'm going to complain.
 
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I still like how everyone says just bait it but eats the same thing i'm talking about frequently.
 
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People mash because everyone is garbage, and
1) Mashing is easy
2) Other crappy players lose against it

Stuff like Vanilla MvC3 didn't look less scrubby because the game was better, but because the players were.

Vanilla Double was broken beyond belief btw
 
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Thread title changed to be more descriptive.
 
Preemptively hitting super at a point when you predict a reset is coming seems a valid option to me.

Let's look at it this way, there are 6 ways you can be hit in a reset. Throwing, the 4 different block mix up directions, and the opponent blocking in prediction of a super/reversal. Assuming we take reaction or prediction out of the equation and are just forced to guess, than:

Blocking: 4/6 chance of dying (Loses to everything except one specific mix up block direction and the opponent blocking)

Throw: 4/6 chance of dying (loses to all directional mix ups, wins against blocking and tied with throw attempt)

Hitting buttons that aren't invulnerable: 5/6 chance of dying (because everything is so safe, you'll only live if they try to block)

Super: 1/6 chance of dying (Usually beats all 4 directional mix ups along with throws. Only loses to blocking)


Now, the reason why mashing sucks, is that shit tends to only come out half the time. However, with finesse, it seems to me that you can still hit super at almost all the times when you think your opponent will reset you for the super to come out if they choose any of them.
 
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Mashing is a thing because either mash or hope you guessed right.
 
Honestly more a player issue then game issue. I take advantage when opponents mash out a super unintelligently and then I take my free damage/opponent loss of meter/gain momentum shift then say thank you afterwards.
 
At least it's not like SDE where people could reset the shit out of you without punishment of their own.
 
I don't like the mashing, but I do think its a necessary evil. As has been illustrated, trying to block shit just gives a really bad risk/reward ratio ESPECIALLY when even if you block correctly, you are probably subject to mire mixups. Beating one of these multi mixups is extremely hard/nigh impossible without using super reversals.
 
Think more about your offense. Just because you got the hit doesn't mean you shouldn't have to think about anything anymore. If she mashes super when you drop your combo, you shouldn't be dropping your combo. In no game is dropping your combo a positive thing. If you are comboing and want a reset, you just have to reset a little differently than normal. I'm experimenting with this kind of stuff:


Understanding what this character you are up against can mash is important.

Like, Parasoul, everything she'll mash (Pillar, mostly, cancelled into bikes probably, or she could mash lvl 3) beats instant overheads free, so don't do those when you fight her.

When you are fighting Double, everything Double can mash beats most forms of attacks you can do, so a safer bet would be neutral jump and block (while calling any assist you may have), or resetting her in the air.

Cerebella, everything she mashes beats things you do on the ground or in the air, so same deal with Double, you should either reset her in the air or neutral jump.

Against Filia, going for air resets is bad cause every one of them probably gets beat by Gregor (maybe Painwheel's j.hp into super would beat it though), so reset her on the ground with armor, or with crossunders.

Things like this, thinking about them, make me really believe mashing is going to become extinct as soon as people work all of this out for each character with each character.
 
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Pali said:
I don't wanna deal with it, i wanna be like the people who complained about HK hornet bomber i want it patched up and fixed.
Pretty sure the hitstop change in beta is related to this.

People are free to mashed reversal supers because they do unsafe resets/don't block, so experiments were had where if you didn't do stupid stuff/learned to block you weren't free. Of course people could have just learned that on their own since it's not like we couldn't do that before, but where's the fun in that?
 
Zidiane said:
(maybe Painwheel's j.hp into super would beat it though)
That sounds like a good idea, actually. I will see if that works later.

People always use Filia as an example on this topic.
In every fighter there's always one character that's place high tier for one reason or another.

Dropping the combo + blocking a little early, dropping + blocking at reset, doing your super before she does,
not doing the same old thing even though you know the player mashes super when getting wombo combo'd...
Pick one.

Don't get all bent out of shape; you can do the exact same thing. It's fair. Really isn't a big deal. Just adjust your gameplay and you'll be fine.
 
StripeyBoosh said:
Dropping the combo + blocking a little early, dropping + blocking at reset, doing your super before she does,
not doing the same old thing even though you know the player mashes super when getting wombo combo'd...
Actually, doing your super before she does isn't a good strategy. They could be holding back while you're comboing them, which is something a lot of people do, and if they do anything other than mash then you get punished. And even if they mash, with the beta change so you can block if you weren't doing something, they may be inbetween mashes and get to block anyway.
 
Zidiane said:
Actually, doing your super before she does isn't a good strategy. They could be holding back while you're comboing them, which is something a lot of people do, and if they do anything other than mash then you get punished. And even if they mash, with the beta change so you can block if you weren't doing something, they may be inbetween mashes and get to block anyway.
It depends. If you have a safe DHC, you can use that if you guess wrong and they blocked.
 
Zidiane said:
Actually, doing your super before she does isn't a good strategy. They could be holding back while you're comboing them, which is something a lot of people do, and if they do anything other than mash then you get punished. And even if they mash, with the beta change so you can block if you weren't doing something, they may be inbetween mashes and get to block anyway.
I didn't consider that actually. I was just assuming they were mashing their super.
But even so it depends on the situation.
 
I don't really think the risk-reward at that point is really worth it though. I do know that that strategy never works vs anyone with a dp assist though. I've tried haha
 
St.hp into crawl can do the same sort of thing.
 
So the lesson of the day is to play PW until everyone learns to stop mashing.
 
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