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Mighty No. 9

Balder said:
But still, the "ask the fans" thing is a necessary evil for crowdfunded projects, make people feel they hold some degree of power over the final product.
Many crowd-funded projects have been successful without fan involvement. Heck, the original crowdfunding success story, Minecraft, didn't have anything to do with it. It might get you more money, but it's not a requirement.
Although the transparent development process, taking suggestions from fans, and (especially) mod support are things I'm very much in favor of, I just feel like letting fans alter the base game will end up creating a big mess. I just hope Mighty Number 9 doesn't run into these issues.
 
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Bump.

Also, updated OP to reflect the current Mighty Situation.
 
Well, this thread is pretty dead. At the same time, I don't really wanna make a new thread just to push this thing. Oh well.

Over on the MN9 forum, a friend and I have come up with the idea to give one of the lost Call designs a chance at a new role, but we need the support of the community to make it happen! Head over thisaway for more details.
 
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Well, it's probably dead because there's been fairly little news in terms of the game itself, aside perhaps from the announcement that the final phase of the Call design contest starts on the 19th.

Having said that, I replied on that thread, because I kind of agree with it.
 

He talks about how this feminist is on the MN9 team and how she probably wants certain things to change.
 
"Mighty Number Nope" - I admit I chuckled. Well played.

I won't even comment on the Tumblresque drama or the "Beck needs to be female because I never heard of Shantae now look at my wonderful art of Beck with lipstick and eyelashes that's as convincing as Cloud in drag."

What I find most crucial in this story:
- Never played a Megaman game
- her art, while not bad, has nothing to do with the aesthetical style of the game
- Got there because of connections
And this person is a designer/community manager becauuuuuuse?
 
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BrandX+ said:
He talks about how this feminist is on the MN9 team and how she probably wants certain things to change.
OH GOSH FEMINISTS! They've come to ruin our video games!
Oh god the video starts out making fun of Anita Sarkeesian... this very nearly made me made me stop watching. I mean for fuck's sake I don't 100% agree with all of her arguments but just the thought that someone is saying women are under represented in gaming set off this massive horde against her... Fuck I hate these people. They make 30 minute arguments out of nothing but ad hominem. This guy is also using the word "retard" a lot. And he just referred to everyone who doesn't agree with him as "white knights." This is gonna be hard to get through.

>"Potential agenda that she might be pushing" so genderbending beck this one time is the end of the world? Also what the fuck is he talking about with his evidence on her political agenda:
She retweeted a post about not making dating game protagonists rapists. She retweeted a post about liking the new Anita Sarkeesian video. She tweeted something about disliking Bayonetta's constant sexualization. She tweeted about liking a strong female protagonist. She supports personal pronouns. I'm waiting for the insane views to come in.

>Out of context twitter post about not being an MM player- apparently this means she hasn't touched megaman once in her life and knows nothing about megaman. It's also nice to note that after he goes over this he continues to say that she's lied. He even says things like "all the lies" which make it sound like she's lied more than once... and then he plays a song about her being a liar at the end. This is pretty much it, and it's an exaggeration to even call this a lie.

>It seems like she was decently qualified for the job in addition to having connections. She speaks fluent japanese and english apparently, and according to her post she had some experience in the Japanese gaming community, so her connections helped her get a job she was already qualified for. I don't really see the big problem with this.

>Locking her twitter and deleting tweets was probably an overreaction to waking up with an angry mob after you. Not exactly a good choice, but the whole thing where she was trying to separate her personal and professional life is at least believable considering that's the real problem here- she was too casual about political views and people got pissed off. It wasn't a great idea to delete the tweets, but people aren't really perfect, they do stupid things when they're in shock.

But this argument has really committed the major flaw of having no real evidence. You can say whatever you want about HER, but the end result is her work, which is what you're supposed to criticize... the problem is you haven't seen any of it yet. So at this point it's people being critical about absolutely nothing. If some weird shit that obviously doesn't belong in mighty number 9 comes out and we find out it's Diana's fault, then I'll change my tune (although I guarantee I won't change my tune to "feminists shouldn't be working on this project") but until we find something to complain about this is really just an empty argument. I really don't see her somehow ruining mighty number 9, and there's no real evidence that she's ruining character designs, so at this stage it's fine to be inquisitive but any argument that states she's having any negative impact on the game is null.
 
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Nooo call E lost... By far my favorite design. I would be fine with F if I didn't know that the other more creative and interesting designs were available. Ohhhh wellllll.

Edit: is it me or does the youtube play button overlapping the title graphic over lapping his waist make it look suggestive?
 
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All the top brass is already well defined so I doubt her influence over the final product is all that much. At most, she might design a common enemy or two that later has to be approved.
That leaves her role (or should I say "Roll"?) as a community manager and in that sense, picking someone with little knowledge of the franchise's history as well as it's fandom wasn't a good choice or, at least, not the optimal choice. And personally, I think that foisting preferences and, in some cases, ideas is not something a official community manager should do.
If there is any argument to be made, it's that it looks like the forums already look as open to criticism as Capcom Unity. "Looks". I've not access to the whole thing so my perception of it is obviously limited to what was shown.


Was gonna ask about Call but I just remembered "not Roll" won. Boo! Boo Megaman fans! Boo!
EDIT: Thought it was over. It's not. Mea culpa
 
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SpaceCadetKeon said:
Wait, Roll Call won? Lame.
Ain't nobody won yet. The final poll should start on Dec. 19. Still, Roll Call does seem to have the upper hand. If you guys wanna save any of the losers, I suggest you get campaigning.
 
Yeah, the second Call Vote hasn't happened yet guys! I believe E and D are still in the running, yes?

Anyway, concerning this "Dinafune" debacle, I think one of the craziest things in that video is how the guy criticized her for having not played Megaman. Is that really so bizarre? Heck, I bet her limited knowledge of Megaman before working at Comcept was already more expansive than Heath Ledger's knowledge of the Joker before he worked on Dark Knight. Like Horseman said, at the end of the day, you judge people for their work!

On that note, I wouldn't be surprised if stuff like this is what eventually leads to the death of Twitter. People really shouldn't be at risk of losing their jobs because of such harmless blobs of text.
 
KaboomKid said:
Yeah, the second Call Vote hasn't happened yet guys! I believe E and D are still in the running, yes?

Anyway, concerning this "Dinafune" debacle, I think one of the craziest things in that video is how the guy criticized her for having not played Megaman. Is that really so bizarre? Heck, I bet her limited knowledge of Megaman before working at Comcept was already more expansive than Heath Ledger's knowledge of the Joker before he worked on Dark Knight. Like Horseman said, at the end of the day, you judge people for their work!

On that note, I wouldn't be surprised if stuff like this is what eventually leads to the death of Twitter. People really shouldn't be at risk of losing their jobs because of such harmless blobs of text.
That would be E and H. The D campaign is for a whole nother thing.
 
Weeginji said:
Ain't nobody won yet. The final poll should start on Dec. 19. Still, Roll Call does seem to have the upper hand. If you guys wanna save any of the losers, I suggest you get campaigning.
KaboomKid said:
Yeah, the second Call Vote hasn't happened yet guys! I believe E and D are still in the running, yes?
Ah. That explains why I haven't seen anything about it on the official forums (which I finally got around to activating my account for).

In that case, onward Call E!
 
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Balder said:
All the top brass is already well defined so I doubt her influence over the final product is all that much. At most, she might design a common enemy or two that later has to be approved.
That leaves her role (or should I say "Roll"?) as a community manager and in that sense, picking someone with little knowledge of the franchise's history as well as it's fandom wasn't a good choice or, at least, not the optimal choice. And personally, I think that foisting preferences and, in some cases, ideas is not something a official community manager should do.
If there is any argument to be made, it's that it looks like the forums already look as open to criticism as Capcom Unity. "Looks". I've not access to the whole thing so my perception of it is obviously limited to what was shown.
Everything really points to her not having much agency in the project, so I agree that the most she's doing is making some common enemies.
Although if she really does have agency maybe she can convince them to make mighty no.8 a girl again.

She's probably not the best choice in the world but she's not vastly under qualified, it's not a case of nepotism as having connections in the company is a serious plus not just in bias but in application since she's already accustomed to the people she will work with. You would have to find someone who was trying to get the same job and was amazingly better than her for it to really seem like she got hired off of pure connections. It's also never been a requirement of these jobs to have a full understanding of the community beforehand, because out of all the things you could figure out on the job that's the easiest.
She didn't ever push her views on anyone in the forums, these are all comments taken from her personal twitter. I don't know why a community manager can't hold these opinions, especially if it doesn't affect her work (which it really wouldn't have if users of the forum hadn't brought it into the community.)

Weeginji said:
Ain't nobody won yet. The final poll should start on Dec. 19. Still, Roll Call does seem to have the upper hand. If you guys wanna save any of the losers, I suggest you get campaigning.
Yeah, but it's been pretty clear that not roll would win for a while now. People are a little too attached to the "ha ha this totally isn't megaman" element of the project to really let it do things out of the box, so I expect it to go like that in all the votes.
 
Gah, I haven't been focusing on MM9 since the funding ended and I got my forum access. I just decided to check in for today and saw the massive backlash...wow.

In the end, I highly doubt she's going to have a major influence on the designs, things don't just make it into the game because someone drew up a design. There's a process of approval and planning. I hope things don't get screwed up because people are calling for refunds. It would be a massive tragedy if the game was terribly hurt (or canceled) because people are freaking out about an unlikely possibility rather than an existing problem.
 
Weeginji said:
That would be E and H. The D campaign is for a whole nother thing.
That's right, I forgot about LBD Call. Actually, I might end up swinging H's way if they give her a more interesting outfit. I still miss Call C myself.

But c'mon, let's all try to be nice to Call F when she wins. Poor thing is probably scared to death after seeing all of these messages about Dina. If people will act this rough towards a real woman, imagine how they'll treat a fake robotic one!
 
Shockdingo said:
In the end, I highly doubt she's going to have a major influence on the designs, things don't just make it into the game because someone drew up a design. There's a process of approval and planning. I hope things don't get screwed up because people are calling for refunds. It would be a massive tragedy if the game was terribly hurt (or canceled) because people are freaking out about an unlikely possibility rather than an existing problem.
Well, I don't think kickstarter will give them refunds considering what a mess that would be with stretch goals and such, and I sincerely hope that that many people don't want refunds, since that would be like hundreds of thousands of people demanding refunds because a feminist had some vague input on the game- I mean seriously, that's just disgusting.
Although at this point, unless all the female characters are rewritten as sex slaves somebody's going to cry "political agenda" when the game comes out.
 
I wonder if I'm weird in that I'm pretty fond of all three Call candidates, lol.

H is cool in that she's basically a Roll Caskett expat. MML Roll was a pretty awesome Roll if you ask me; she's not my favorite of the three, but I'm not going to be grumpy if she prevails, given MML3's dead-in-the-water status.

F is nice in that she's a cooler remake of the original Roll. I'm not as against "Roll 2" as others are, because it seems odd to me that no one who objects to Call F being too much like Roll minds Beck basically being a thinly veiled Megaman.

If we're helping Inafune reclaim one of his characters, why does the other one need to be radically different? It's a very weird double standard. On top of which is that I kinda like the half-emotionless face and the idea that her jacket hides a very robotic body/arms. It just strikes me as odd that no one objects to Beck, but Call being too much like Roll is a sin.

Call-E is my favorite, by a large margin, but it's really just the difference between an A and a B+ for me. I'd like her more than F but if F wins I'm going to be nearly as happy. None of the final three are a bad outcome to me. We really weeded out the ones who were only good at the lab assistant or the PC but not both.
 
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SunnyRei said:
but it's really just the difference between an A and a B+ for me.

Clearly you're not Asian.
 
I'm most fond of E myself, just because she looks enough like Call F without being a complete knockoff of Roll. She's got the two-toned hair we saw on Call-F and I'm incredibly fond of that more robotic expression she had, with the squared eyes.

Oh well, as long as H doesn't win. Really don't see the appeal of that design.

I'm also kind hoping that the final design and color scheme votes end up being separate, to make things a bit more fair.
 
I forgot which one had the astro boy character design...I liked her the best :(

*Astroboy fanboy*
 
Horseman said:
She didn't ever push her views on anyone in the forums, these are all comments taken from her personal twitter. I don't know why a community manager can't hold these opinions, especially if it doesn't affect her work (which it really wouldn't have if users of the forum hadn't brought it into the community.)
She kinda barged in the boards with "MMX is best MM". As I said, my objection is a personal one, like a minor transgression of etiquette, nothing to get worked up about. I just think that when the head honchos tout their preferences around, it potentates a board of sons and stepsons, with members being sycophants to the admins/mods and those that might get on their bad side for not marching to the beat of that drum. Again, I'm not saying it's a sure thing but from my experience in other boards it's something I see happen.
Also, if those screencaps of the board in the video are of any indication, mods responding my editing the OP is ridiculous. Even if people make absurd claims, they are backers (or should I say "Beckers"?) and there's no need to antagonize them. If they bothered replying, then reply with a post arguing that there's no need to be worried because a) b) c) and lock the thread.

Anyway, looks like this video generated a massive shitstorm. It even got stickied on 4chan.
While I think that people are overreacting I think I can partly understand the reaction: people see the term "Art Director" and then look at what night terrors are made of. And on that note, I'm curious what that "Art Director" means - because if it means the Art Director presented in the KS pitch has left and she took over then I can see very very palpable reasons to get worried. Out of curiosity, I checked her Twitter to look at her work. I won't say it's bad but it's not exactly good either; at best, it's derivative. The kind of blasé thing we see in literally dozens of DA pages (people can talk all the shit they want about Alex Ahad's work but at least you call tell his work almost immediately).
But indeed we'll have to wait and see if this has any implications or not.

Personally, her genderbend proposal just sent shivers down my spine mostly because the "art" is a head stumped to a body it doesn't belong to. And it's a little self-defeating. If she says the change has no consequence whatsoever, then why change it?
I'm not opposed to a female character and I do agree we need more good female leads but putting make-up on Beck and send her through the door with a slap in the ass is absurd and as a Art Director she has no excuse to not make something better. Even if it's just a lark, she's putting herself on the spotlight with it and people will draw their conclusions.
And honestly, if a guy penciled that drawing there would outrages about how it's just adding make-up to a male character...her design is basically a caricature of the "man with boobs" female character Sarkeesian discussed.
Overall, I think there needs to be more and better female protagonists but not for the sake of meeting some quota as some make it out to be. "There's X male heroes so there has to be X female heroes too." That's not the way to go about it.

Sorry folks. It's not my intention to bring that discussion here but just felt like playing Devil's Advocate. But I've said my piece.


When's Not Dr Wily? :3
I hope they pick the suave guy in the suit as the main villain. He looks pretty cool.
 
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Balder said:
While I think that people are overreacting I think I can partly understand the reaction: people see the term "Art Director" and then look at what night terrors are made of.

Honestly, this was my favorite reaction.
tumblr_mxm6uz3zM31r8wetoo1_1280.jpg

I'm... ambivalent about it. I don't think being the "Community Manager" has any real impact, so I don't care much about that despite her very, very, very poor start at PR. But her art is unappealing enough (for this particular project) that I hope she's not actually designing things, which a deleted tweet said she was.

And they're being sorta doublespeak about it on the forums, saying "don't worry the community manager doesn't make any design decisions," which is true, but still sort of sidestepping an actual answer if she's a designer too. Guess we'll see.
 
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Balder said:
She kinda barged in the boards with "MMX is best MM". As I said, my objection is a personal one, like a minor transgression of etiquette, nothing to get worked up about. I just think that when the head honchos tout their preferences around, it potentates a board of sons and stepsons, with members being sycophants to the admins/mods and those that might get on their bad side for not marching to the beat of that drum. Again, I'm not saying it's a sure thing but from my experience in other boards it's something I see happen.
Also, if those screencaps of the board in the video are of any indication, mods responding my editing the OP is ridiculous. Even if people make absurd claims, they are backers (or should I say "Beckers"?) and there's no need to antagonize them. If they bothered replying, then reply with a post arguing that there's no need to be worried because a) b) c) and lock the thread.

Anyway, looks like this video generated a massive shitstorm. It even got stickied on 4chan.
While I think that people are overreacting I think I can partly understand the reaction: people see the term "Art Director" and then look at what night terrors are made of. And on that note, I'm curious what that "Art Director" means - because if it means the Art Director presented in the KS pitch has left and she took over then I can see very very palpable reasons to get worried. Out of curiosity, I checked her Twitter to look at her work. I won't say it's bad but it's not exactly good either; at best, it's derivative. The kind of blasé thing we see in literally dozens of DA pages (people can talk all the shit they want about Alex Ahad's work but at least you call tell his work almost immediately).
But indeed we'll have to wait and see if this has any implications or not.

Personally, her genderbend proposal just sent shivers down my spine mostly because the "art" is a head stumped to a body it doesn't belong to. And it's a little self-defeating. If she says the change has no consequence whatsoever, then why change it?
I'm not opposed to a female character and I do agree we need more good female leads but putting make-up on Beck and send her through the door with a slap in the ass is absurd and as a Art Director she has no excuse to not make something better. Even if it's just a lark, she's putting herself on the spotlight with it and people will draw their conclusions.
And honestly, if a guy penciled that drawing there would outrages about how it's just adding make-up to a male character...her design is basically a caricature of the "man with boobs" female character Sarkeesian discussed.
Overall, I think there needs to be more and better female protagonists but not for the sake of meeting some quota as some make it out to be. "There's X male heroes so there has to be X female heroes too." That's not the way to go about it.

Sorry folks. It's not my intention to bring that discussion here but just felt like playing Devil's Advocate. But I've said my piece.


When's Not Dr Wily? :3
I hope they pick the suave guy in the suit as the main villain. He looks pretty cool.
I was talking about feminism, when you said "fostering ideas" were you actually talking about her liking MMX over MM? Because I think that's pretty minor...
The fact that posts got edited is scary, but it's just an entirely different issue. Dina probably didn't even do that. But yeah, mod edits should never be used like that, it just makes the situation about 1000x worse because people feel like they're being silenced, if the thread is out of hand then lock it if it's not then answer their questions. It almost goes without saying. I've modded a forum before and if any of us had done that we would have gotten in big trouble.
I don't think she's the art director of the whole project, that wouldn't be withheld from us, and she pretty much said that she's just good friends with some of the character designers and gives them input. She didn't even directly say that she made any designs. I really don't think she has the agency to do much, especially now that hundreds of people have said they don't want her to have anything to do with it. Although if she actually does... I really wouldn't worry about it, with plenty of people that are far above her in the company's hierarchy, I still can't imagine the game getting cataclysmically worse from just from her presence.
The genderbent Beck (which has absolutely no chance of getting in and anyone saying otherwise is just freaking out way too much) is... uhh... well, she's just not doing the whole feminism thing correctly. Disregarding for a moment that the design is terrible and kind of looks like the head of a 1940's pin-up stapled to beck's body, she doesn't really get the whole female protagonist thing. Because one of the worst sins of character design is to go back and change a bunch of character's genders or races because there's some sort of strange minority quota that you need to hit. If you never thought of the character as female until the end when you decided that you need more female characters, it's going to show, and the character is just going to end up sloppy.
So basically, I agree with you there, but all of the stuff about her views on gender equality are just such a terrible discussion. It's perfectly fine for her to hold feminist views, and give some art direction, and be a community manager. That's the thing here that really makes me angry; not that people criticize her community management or the beck design, but that most of these people are so mad just because she's a feminist. Like she's going to infect the game with evil feminism voodoo.
 
Considering the OTHER video game feminist and how she acted, that type of thing doesn't really leave the best impression. It's a kneejerk reaction at that point.
I'M NOT saying I agree.
 
CapnWTF said:
Considering the OTHER video game feminist and how she acted, that type of thing doesn't really leave the best impression. It's a kneejerk reaction at that point.
I'M NOT saying I agree.
...you mean Sarkeesian?
And how she closed her video comments and stuff in response to the absolutely ridiculous amount of mindless insults that were drowning out anything else, hypocritically proving that someone really ought to make some videos talking about feminism and gaming? It's just so difficult to have an actually logical conversation about her videos, since the most common response is "how dare she touch the sacred and innocent gaming medium! BURN THE WITCH!" and it's getting really old.
Of course, this is a MN9 thread and not a feminist frequency thread, so I'm not going to go into detail about Sarkeesian and my thoughts on her, but if the whole Sarkeesian ordeal taught you anything it should have been that we desperately need to clean up our act as a community, because at the moment the gaming community's response to just about anything it doesn't like is downright disgusting, let alone its attitude toward sexism in general.
 
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Horseman said:
I was talking about feminism, when you said "fostering ideas" were you actually talking about her liking MMX over MM? Because I think that's pretty minor...
Goodness, no! That would be a unfair accusation. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt in that regard and assume she separates her political and professional lives though I understand part of the shitstorm comes from the combination of her tweets and her genderbecked Bent "art". People put those together and assumed she's pushing some social justice agenda. I think it's too early to say such a thing. Nonetheless, I'd still give her shit for being a average artist or at least one that so far looks unsuitable for the project. :3
Again, I agree she probably has little power over the project and everything likely goes through Inafune but when we read/hear "Art Director", it's natural to assume it's a position that has some weight to it.
But as community manager, I assume she has some power over the feedback that makes it to the team and from there pretty much cherry pick what she wants (and where kissing admin/mod ass kicks in full force) and likely be the one appointing the mods (and if that mod activity is the norm, they're basically white knighting her because it's more than trying to contain a situation, they're outright disrespecting her detractors/doubters). Just speculating, not accusing.


Anyway, to those unaware, the protagonist of YAIBA: NINJA GAIDEN Z is getting a DLC Beck costume.
http://www.4gamer.net/games/184/G018408/20131212066/

The game still looks tackier than a porcelain dog.
 
002.jpg

HE LOOKS SO FUCKING WEIRD OH GOD.
It's like a creepy old janitor is wearing a Beck mascot costume.
 
The complaints I've read so far involving the new person amount to slippery slope fallacy goodness like "Oh no a feminist is on the team, she will make all of the robots transgendered abominations", or quality tidbits like "she's merely played SOME of the Megaman games as opposed to ALL of them, this totally matters in her art design position which has no effect over the gameplay"

I feel like the backlash against this person stems from a wave of anti-feminism that's been riding on the coattails of Anita's kickstarter for over a year now, with no respect to the reality of the situation regarding this person. She's not a BIG BAD EVIL PERSON because she is a feminist, or has only played a few Megaman games, or temporarilly closed her twitter after receiving many hateful tweets. The fact that so many people are viciously trying to chip away at her character to find something to act unruly about (like that awful video on the last page) tells me that they don't care about the quality of the game as much as they care about bringing down someone who thinks differently than them.
 
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I dont mind Call F even if she looks like roll sue me I like roll, however I do like H and E, but I'm probably the only person who likes Call I. Heh
 
Lunerstep said:
I dont mind Call F even if she looks like roll sue me I like roll, however I do like H and E, but I'm probably the only person who likes Call I. Heh
I don't really hate call F. I still like E way way way better but F is alright, maybe like my third or fourth choice? The big problem I have with her is that she's winning by such a large margin mostly because she looks so much like roll. It makes it feel like nothing else has any hope of winning. I hope that in the next couple of design votes, no one submits designs that look like the character's megaman counterpart, just to even the playing field a little bit.
 
I can respect that. Like I said tough since it's one of the designs I like I'm not to bugged, but when somethings to one sided I do see where your coming from Horseman.
 
Lunerstep said:
I dont mind Call F even if she looks like roll sue me I like roll, however I do like H and E, but I'm probably the only person who likes Call I. Heh
Call I is decent.
 
The only points of reference for commmunity managers I have is guys like Seth Killian, Filthie Rich, and Combofiend. They're all people that represent to communities they were managing. I can see how making someone whose only visible community contribution is gender swapping the main character the community manager would he disconcerting. Then her having friends/bf that were working on the game (and having that tweet subsequently removed) makes it seem especially grimey.
 
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