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Painwheel Assist Discussion

Anyone have advice on Painwheel/Fortune?

I'm new to Fortune, and Painwheel is really the only character I'm good with right now. I'd like to have Fortune on point (at least for a while) so that I get practice with using her. They don't seem good together, but I'm a fan of playing who I like. No idea what assists to use though.
 
Well once you learn Fortune more, you could always stick her in back with Fiber Upper.
 
ButterKnife said:
Anyone have advice on Painwheel/Fortune?

I'm new to Fortune, and Painwheel is really the only character I'm good with right now. I'd like to have Fortune on point (at least for a while) so that I get practice with using her. They don't seem good together, but I'm a fan of playing who I like. No idea what assists to use though.
actually nota bad duo, I think. You can take PW 2MP assist to extend Fortune's pressure to absolutely disgusting length and the obvious HK fiber upper for both DP assist and the best alpha counter in the game. It is difficult to confirm from, but PW is probably better than most at it because flight strings make it easy to bring an opponent to the ground .
 
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ButterKnife said:
Anyone have advice on Painwheel/Fortune?

I'm new to Fortune, and Painwheel is really the only character I'm good with right now. I'd like to have Fortune on point (at least for a while) so that I get practice with using her. They don't seem good together, but I'm a fan of playing who I like. No idea what assists to use though.

Painwheel will always love DP assists, even if it's the hardest one to convert from. On the plus side, while it is more difficult to convert from than Updo or Napalm Pillar, Painwheel is one of the few characters generally in a position to convert from it. Painwheel's c.MP is a good assist for Fortune as well, and can make both head-on (left/right crossup mixups) and head-off (zoom/nom timing and traps) pressure pretty nasty.

That said, Fortune builds meter infinitely better than Painwheel and really well compared to the rest of the cast, so it's usually a good idea to put her out first. It's also nice to have the install DHC available, and Fortune doesn't provide a safe DHC in the other direction. Neither character is easy to reset in the air due to great/mashable air supers.

Despite some neutral tools you may lack for not having approach assists for either character (careful with Peacock or Parasoul), it's also worth mentioning that you probably have the hardest hitting two-man team in Encore. Both characters have crazy combo damage.

Painwheel is one of the best for carrying someone to a corner while preserving the OTG, meaning that a DHC Furserker will actually let you extend the combo with Fortune if you want. Similarly, fiber loops will get someone to the corner well if you want to Install Painwheel.
 
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ButterKnife said:
Anyone have advice on Painwheel/Fortune?

I'm new to Fortune, and Painwheel is really the only character I'm good with right now. I'd like to have Fortune on point (at least for a while) so that I get practice with using her. They don't seem good together, but I'm a fan of playing who I like. No idea what assists to use though.


Were it me i would DEFINITELY go fortune/painwheel. Painwheel gives you a safe on block dhc. Neither assist particularly great for either character, but painwheels cr.mp assist has one of the Best lockdowns in the game since it has many hits but doesnt knock down or far away, like hairball or cerecopter.

Do what you feel is best though.
 
Anyone know any good assists from/for Fukua?
 
Momijibot said:
Anyone know any good assists from/for Fukua?

My facourite Fukua assists are MK clone, HK drill and LK clone

EDIT: Wait, this is the Painwheel thread what.

In that case the ONLY assist you should be using for Fukua is 2MP. If you want an assist for PW, I'd still go with what I said above with Fukua.
 
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So nobody likes to use PW's H Buer to catch jump-ins? :O Right now, the configuration I'm trying is PW/Double/Bella, and I did use 2MP as PW's Ensemble choice for a while but that seems kinda redundant with Cerecopter. I mostly want something to hold me over if I ever decide to switch out to Double with that Bionic Arm DHC (get it?), and the biggest issue my Double has is with the opponent positioning himself over her since it doesn't look like she has any good AA options at all outside of the H Luger. I know that both PW and Cerecopter have lockdown assists and AA grab-ish assists, but I like Cerecopter's increased hitbox size more for the lock-down, so I decided to opt with PW's H Buer assist.

Thoughts?
 
It can be tough to time, and depending on the button they press, you're toast due to Painwheel sticking out this gigantic vulnerable arm before the move goes active.
 
If you already have a lockdown assist, MP.Nail (or maybe even HP) generally does a good job of providing cover for your approaches, upping your space control and making moves of yours safe.
Another option is to change the lockdown assist of your other char and run Bella with H.LnL. What's your Double assist anyways?

HK Buer assist is pretty shit - hard to convert out of, easy to get hit out of, range isn't any good, it whiffs against grounded characters etc
 
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you might as well run excellabella and pw cruel lily. excellabella has a way better hitbox than hk buer. cruel lily isn't as big as cerecopter but its faster and still an ok anti air. I think however you should use hp LnL. It helps out both pw and double a lot since it kinda forces the opponent to deal with it and consequently forces them to deal with your point. And use mp nail since having a projectile to cover you while you tumble run, flesh step, or luger is always nice.
 
My double assist is M Bomber, but I'm heavily considering switching to L version for the added invincibility. That's my approach/anti-pressure when PW's out. One thing is that I have a really scrubby trigger finger, so I often end up using her for lock-down as well when I probably should be using Bella's Copter, so it might actually be in my best interest to switch that Copter assist. I know H LnL is a good option; what about MGR for a mix-up while flying in (most probably on knock-down)? Possibly go for a MGR assist coupled with flying air-grab/attack?

Just trying to size up all my options now that I'm certain that I'm getting rid of H Buer assist.
 
Adeveis said:
does anyone use sguigly/painwheel? Honestly I think that's a pretty amazing pod and might one day be one of those teams everyone uses ( val/filia, peacock/double). I'm thinking pinion dash m or h would be good with squigly but what's a good assist for painwheel? I'm mainly thinking between center stage, silver chord, drag n bite, and cr.hp. If anyone has tried those assists with pw or just want to state their opinion, I'm all ears.....eyes, um well you understand.
I do Pain and Squigly plus Ms.fortune, and its going pretty good. when fortune or painwheel are out I ususally use silver chord as an assist, and when squigly is on point I make sure to charge Serpents tail cause it affects assists too. Anytime i need people closer for fortune its great against peacock as long as you have an opening. Otherwise Drag 'n' Bite is good when you are flying towards opponents.
 
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I sometimes play with PW/Squigly/Bella. When I do, I usually use Center Stage to surprise the opponent and/or make it easier for PW or Bella to get in. Center Stage also lets me keep up the pressure or a combo after a MK Buer or HK Buer, especially when charged. Sometimes, I also like to use Arpeggio because it helps with lockdown, but it's pretty redundant with PW's c.MP and Bella's 'copter. I actually prefer the uncharged version of Arpeggio as an assist, because Seria Arpeggio causes a slide that's hard to combo off of.
 
I run PW/Squig right now, and I'll be adding either BB or MF to my team eventually.

I run 2.mp with PW, but it really doesn't matter because by the time PW gets swapped out, her life is low enough that I'm not usually calling her. The lock down does help Squig who has a hard time getting in. I was largely unimpressed with Pinion Dash. Throw might be worth trying on PW as well since Squig has good innate lockdown.

I run 2.hp with Squig as the lockdown + low compliment PW more than I can express.

The down side? You now have two characters, neither of which have good reversals, who buckle under pressure. They both need some sort of defensive assist and neither have it.

It does get worse when you look at adding a third. You know you need a defensive assist. You know they need to be meter independent because PW doesn't build meter for shit, her only reversals require meter, and Squigly eats meter like she's paid to. So you get pretty limited. I think you're likely looking Updo, BB, or Fiber.

Parasoul as Isa will tell you is likely a bad choice. Double wants meter, so... she's not a great choice. Eliza DP seems awful on assist... plus meter.

So yeah, it is a blast, but I doubt it will be a "top tier" team... ever. Hell, I don't see people picking up PW anyway as she has a steep learning curve to perform at a similar level... hell, my Squigly is already pushing more consistent than my PW with significantly less hours than my PW. And Squigs isn't exactly known for being OP.
 
Right now, the way i see it, the 2 best assists for pw are fiber and cerecopter. Pws best overall assist us still cr.mp, but, its so bad that picking things such as mp nail, throw, st.mk etc etc arent that bad of choices since the power of cr.mp isnt that high in and of itself.

The primary thing i keep coming back to when watching taludas painwheel... Is his assists... Namely fiber and copter. The other thing ive really seen and made note of is bella raw tag. Everyone knows how good it is, but i think the synergy it has with characters that have bad reversals, as a tag... Is eye opening.

So, footsies speaking, fiber and copter seem to be pws best assists to use. Until something better is found... And many things have been tried.
 
I find M H.Bomber to be pretty good because it kinda combines the best of both worlds. It's got enough invincibility to be used defensively, but it can also help a lot with lockdown and it's not too hard to combo off of. The only problem is that Double needs that meter...

I've been playing around in training mode, and I think DD could be a useful assist for opening someone up or scoring a reset, especially with a set-up I've been trying out. Right after you fly-cancel out of a grounded block-string, you simultaneously fly 9 grab and call DD assist at the same time. You have more than enough time to react to Bella scoring the grab, re-position yourself, and combo the opponent right out of the grab before he goes anywhere. If the opponent jumps, he goes straight into the grab. To mix things up, you can always j.LP to account for the tech or j.HP to account for a counter-attack of some sort. This is pretty situational, but I thought it might help with PW's troubles in opening up an opponent.

Thoughts?
 
DD + FU?

I think with a dp assist, your options as a second assist are wide open as dp covers her biggest problem (reversal). Plus FU acts as a lockdown so you don't necessarily need another lockdown.

I think there is definitely some value to throw assists. I've been caught off guard vs them for sure. But I'll be assed if I can figure out how to use it properly. It was basically free hits on my PW when I tried it.

Anyway, let me know how it works out for you. I'd be curious.
 
Dd is a good theory try. Go for it. I had the idea a looooong time ago, and it can be useful but it just doesnt have that utility that pw needs... At least from my perspective.

M bomber is good for pw if you can manage to corner the opponent.

At midscreen though it is merely a poke or a semi situational gtfo that opponents that know how to deal with... Can simply disrespect (by jumping over it in its spawn point deadzone, allowing them to put pressure on pw without needing to worry about bomber much at all)

Pw doesnt have troubles opening her opponents... No one with a good throw does. And painwheels throws are gdlk. Painwheels problem is making good opponents block in the first place. She has a hard time just making contact with the opponent. Things like sing that would seem to help dont so much because painwheel also has problems with her overall priority.
 
I'm iffy on sing. I've rarely seen it used well and when it is used well, I generally think I can figure it out enough to shut it down. So on QM it might get some wins, but I don't know if it would have a lot of success in a race to 20 or so.
 
I play BB/Painwheel, and I've been using Light Pinion Dash assist lately and having much more success with it than cr.mp. It could just be due to my play style, but I feel like it complements BB better than cr.mp does.

I'm not sure how reliable it is, but I'd like to do a little exploring into cr.lk purely for the idea of low mix-ups.

MP Stinger - I see a lot of people saying to consider this as an assist, but I feel like it's just way too slow and easy to avoid. Do people just use this to help their approach?
 
yeah cl.lk is a bad assist choice. Pinion and mp/hp stinger are good though. Stinger is especially nice because pw will chill out next to you and as BB's giant size will keep anyone from reaching her if you use it reasonably.
 
I think it's possible to call Stinger assist just before you rush punch to make the rush punch safe-ish on block; the Stinger should hit them if they try to punish Big Band. I do something similar with Peacock's plane assist, so I don't see why it couldn't work here.
 
I was talking about stinger with @ClarenceMage just yesterday.

He might be able to contribute.

I'm interested in trying it with my Squig as I'm underwhelmed by c.mp, and giving Squigly a tiny bit of range that might force a block could be awesome.

I'd avoid c.lp.

You might also try a throw assist. Elda seems to love it.

Also, how is BB/PW working out for you? It seems the exact opposite of how I'd have run it.
 
mcpeanuts said:
I think it's possible to call Stinger assist just before you rush punch to make the rush punch safe-ish on block; the Stinger should hit them if they try to punish Big Band. I do something similar with Peacock's plane assist, so I don't see why it couldn't work here.

M-Nail makes Bella's headbutt safe.

I don't know BB frame data, but if brass is like -17f on block or better, it should make it safe with the right timing.
 
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Spencer said:
You might also try a throw assist. Elda seems to love it.

Also, how is BB/PW working out for you? It seems the exact opposite of how I'd have run it.

I know you can't throw an assist character, but can you tech a throw-assist? Or are you forced to jump or throw out a throw-invincible move?

As for BB/PW, it's working out a lot better for me than PW/BB did actually. The biggest perk has been having the safe DHC into Hatred Install, and it's nice too that PW's tag is pretty legit compared to BB's, so overall I feel like I can manage the team better, I have more options from the start. I could definitely benefit from adding a 3rd character, but that's a whole separate discussion.
 
theDMAGS said:
I know you can't throw an assist character, but can you tech a throw-assist? Or are you forced to jump or throw out a throw-invincible move?

As for BB/PW, it's working out a lot better for me than PW/BB did actually. The biggest perk has been having the safe DHC into Hatred Install.

You can tech normal throws used as an assist.

Opportunities to mash into install (on block or on hit) are always good. Definitely better than PW point imo, especially when considering PW's meter build abilities and matchups against common point characters.
 
Like Hilary said, you can tech them.

I can't get them to work for me, but they seem strong in situations in which you've got your opponent hunkered down in block mode.
 
Val's throw assist is incredibly stupid, IMO.

Opportunities to mash into Install are good, but I find that PW kinda flounders as an anchor without an assist to help her out. It would probably be better on a 3-man team where she can be middle.
 
Spencer said:
I was talking about stinger with @ClarenceMage just yesterday.

He might be able to contribute.

I was trying it out when I was dicking around with Team Pali, specifically as a way to boost Parasoul neutral game.

What I found was that M Stinger was ridiculously versatile at every range.

Full screen- Call assist, do L shot. Dash in, and you're following in two fireballs. If your opponent jumps, swat them with j.HP, if they block, they fall down and get to block the M Stinger setting up mixups. If they get hit by the shot, then L shot will combo into the stinger, and you can convert into full combo.

Mid screen- j.HP + Stinger to cover multiple angles, M Shot + Stinger to cover the angles. Stinger + L shot to Harass, all pretty safe.

Close - Close up pressure game is boosted greatly by Stinger, by doing blockstring into Stinger, L shot, you dash up while they have to deal with stinger. It creates more situations that are unavoidable by pushblocking. Because of how long it travels and its long startup time, it can come out when you're in the middle of a special, leaving you safe after many things that are normally punishable.

Incoming Mixup - Incoming mixups with a slow traveling fireball are great. Go back, call assist, then super jump j.MK hold and hover left-right for an unseeable left-right with the fireball coming out.

That's what I remember, but there were heaps of small situational uses that I made up on the spot. I haven't explored it with other characters, but I found it worked really well with Parasoul.

This is why I rate it higher than c.MP assist - It allows characters to play the game at more ranges, and if you are able to be a threat at more ranges then matchups will probably lean more to your favour. c.MP is great as a lockdown assist, but that requires you to already be close to your opponent, and having an assist dedicated to PURELY close-up lockdown is redundant when every single character has fantastic pressure/mixup game when point blank.

Edit: Come to think of it, dedicated lockdown assists aren't redundant if they're SUPER RIDICULOUS like Sekhmet MUDAMUDAMUDA. However, Painwheel's c.MP does not lock down nearly that hard to be a worthy pick.
 
If you want to use mp stinger assist i say go for it. Ive tried it and found it lacking for a number of reasons (it DOES have more utility than cr.mp but its overall utility plus its general situations that its really good in, imho pale to cr.mp in cr.mps best situations)

To wit, the problems that you will have to overcome to use stinger well:


At full or midscreen, it is horrendously slow and easy to jump over, so making an opponent block it is rather hard especially once they get used to actually playing against it. ESPECIALLY when the opponent gets used to the fact that parasoul has no other assist that has high priority. With cr.mp however i find that throwing it out on the ground in neutral to simply keep someone from dashing in on me... Is pretty decent. Which is one of the primary things that mp stinger would be used for anyways.

At close range it loses to cr.mp in power, exponentially.

So i couldnt find any ranges where it felt... Powerful. Not like cr.mp at its best range at the very least.


But i fully hope that people try it out for themselves and come up with good stuff for it.. It wont be easy. I havent played against one mp stinger user that made me think it was worthwhile. A mild annoyance sure but it doesnt scare me like the occasional cr.mp assist does.


With squigly i think it could have some beneficial use to use much like how BB brass is used. To cover the horizontal dash in plane so that people have troubles dashing under squiglys j.hp.

In fact this kind of horizontal control is the only thing i REALLY have any respect for mp stinger for. Unfortunately only fukua and squigly can really use it in this fashion.
 
I know with my PW/Double/Bella team, M Nail is a pretty good assist for Double, since she can command dash through the opponent for a left-right mix-up that she can convert into full-combos, and it can make teacup and Wesker-shot safe.
 
I've started experimenting with using MK.Buer as an assist for my Parasoul and Peacock, perhaps due to a lack of vastly superior options, perhaps aside from c.MP. The move comes out fast, and has absolutely stupid range. Seriously, test it out. Peacock can call Painwheel and teleport behind at quite a good range for a mix-up. The biggest downfall of this is that it's difficult (but not impossible) to convert into a combo. For Peacock, though, the fact that the opponent gets knocked away certainly isn't a terrible thing in most of those cases. With Parasoul you generally have enough time to dash in and start pressuring once they get up if you fail the conversion. It can be used in combos with both characters, because it's fairly easy to hit the opponent before they get sent flying. It does 1400 damage and only hits twice, so it won't mess with damage scaling too much. Any thoughts on this? Dumb?
 
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Just be aware that there is no invincibility on the move and PW sticks her hurtbox out really far when she does it, so she most probably will lose any 'assist wars' you may have planned, especially since she can't grab assists with Buer. It also doesn't have the greatest start-up. It's true, though, that PW's assist options are kinda crappy.
 
Those are all fair points. I hadn't thought about the fact that it wouldn't hit other assists. But in the event that it does land on the point character it does gain invulnerability until the damaging hit comes out, I think? It can even hit the assist character if they're close enough. So there's that, at least? But yeah, it does put her hurtbox out there. Nonetheless, it has the exact same start-up as MP.Nail, with no travel time.
 
The difference is that MP nail puts out a projectile that can make any of your moves safe from any distance (in front of PW). For instance, MP nail could make a cross-up teleport safe. It's also much easier to combo off of, IMO. There's also the question of what exactly do you want to do with this assist? Are you fishing for a hit to combo off of? Do you just want to get the opponent away from Peacock? Just trying to tack on extra damage? In all of those cases, there are better options than M Buer. In the specific case you've presented where PW is assisting Peacock, it also requires Peacock to be a little close to the opponent before you can even begin to go for the teleport mix-ups that would make it slightly viable. 1.4K definitely isn't something to sleep on, but it just doesn't seem as useful as PW's other options to me. Are you running Peacock point or is this just a set-up in case you have her out with PW as assist at some point during the match?

That's just my opinion, though, so if you can make it work, go for it. I'm actually a little jaded myself, 'cause I tried to make H Buer work as an assist for a pretty long time to no avail. Switching to M nail worked wonders and I've seen most other PWs use c.MP.

Edit: Another reason I don't really like M Buer in this particular set-up is that its blind spot is also Peacock's blind spot (a little above and in front). H buer and H nail cover this spot, but there are really better chars for that job.
 
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