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Painwheel general discussion AKA GET OUT OF MY THREAD

Help me catch Val!

This MU is boring as shit. A lot of jumping. A lot of flying. I think 90% is catching her, but she is so freaking mobile.
 
Flying is pretty decent against her. Depending on her assist she can't do much to you as you can reaction air suber/lk buer to bypass. Just keep your distance until you can get above her, then come down on her.
 
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Great advice.

How I handle the matchup is different though, maybe it's what hlvn eludes to though. I just try and read the Val's movement patterns like so:

Is she bait based or offensive?
Is her offense with air dash j.hp?
Does she double jump a lot?

If she's bait based, I play it kinda like konkrete... Try to get above her and come down on her... "Footsie push" her to the corner since she's so concerned with staying out of attack range and baiting stuff.

If she's an airdash j.hp abuser... That won't last long cause I've got pillar on my team.

If she double jumps alot, like in the bait based style... It can be hard to get above her. So what I try and do is read her double jumps and coincide my assist to make contact with her as she's landing.

Much of sg strategy and marvel strategy is concerned with making an opponent land into some bad position.

So basically, I try to take her on midair, as little as possible.

It isn't the greatest strategy but it works well when used in conjunction with all the other stuff painwheel has.

Don't ever forget lvl 1 hp stinger flight cancel either... This is one of painwheels best neutral game techniques and covers a huge amount of space especially when used in conjunction with an assist... And space is what Val needs to use her best attributes.... So taking away space can be a good thing.


It might be worth it for a defensive painwheel to try out an assist such as peacocks airshow since it tracks now... It might be really good with mp or hp stinger to close off a lot of space and allow painwheel to brute force her way into a neutral game mixup...
 
So how is painwheel feeling to you guys with the new 240 undizzy?

I feel neutered. My damage is less, throws suck, assist resets suck, my reversal is still kinda a joke and I have to let people out of my pressure.

I don't see any real buffs painwheel got from the 240 undizzy. But I do see some nerfs. Just want to see what you guys think. Is there a stealth buff or 2 that I need to take notice of?

All I'm seeing is more forced neutral (not good for pw) less ability to use assists cause of lockdown (also not great for a not so great neutral having character) and I have to reset more than I used to, but certain characters seem to still be able to kill in ratio 1 wi 1 reset plus dhc...

Is there a stealth buff or 2 I'm not seeing?
 
Dime_x said:
So how is painwheel feeling to you guys with the new 240 undizzy?

I feel neutered. My damage is less, throws suck, assist resets suck, my reversal is still kinda a joke and I have to let people out of my pressure.

I don't see any real buffs painwheel got from the 240 undizzy. But I do see some nerfs. Just want to see what you guys think. Is there a stealth buff or 2 that I need to take notice of?

All I'm seeing is more forced neutral (not good for pw) less ability to use assists cause of lockdown (also not great for a not so great neutral having character) and I have to reset more than I used to, but certain characters seem to still be able to kill in ratio 1 wi 1 reset plus dhc...

Is there a stealth buff or 2 I'm not seeing?

I like it. I always had a fairly reset heavy game so I don't notice the difference almost ever.

That said, I still feel the damage is too high especially on certain characters (I didn't like the compromise though I understand it).
 
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Dime_x said:
So how is painwheel feeling to you guys with the new 240 undizzy?

I feel neutered. My damage is less, throws suck, assist resets suck, my reversal is still kinda a joke and I have to let people out of my pressure.

What the fuck are you doing that you have to let out of pressure? Painwheel can easily do 95% off one tight reset at 50% stage at matching ratio for 1 meter (Throw included for the reset). She kills 2v2 after said reset if she has optimal starter. I'm hitting that magic 14.3k damage barrier for one bar while riding max undizzy after a midscreen corner carry + Assist setup. That's nutsofubar. A love tap or DHC ends people.

I have to reset in 2v3 a total of once midscreen with one meter in most circumstances. Solo, it's two touch kill across the board meterless. :|

She does... horrendous damage, and I'm not even doing her "best" combos. The stealth buff is that everyone does less damage, and Painwheel still does monstrous damage in the corner after max undizzy, and everyone else is shit babby damage town.
 
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Krackatoa said:
What the fuck are you doing that you have to let out of pressure? Painwheel can easily do 95% off one tight reset at 50% stage at matching ratio for 1 meter (Throw included for the reset). She kills 2v2 after said reset if she has optimal starter. I'm hitting that magic 14.3k damage barrier for one bar while riding max undizzy after a midscreen corner carry + Assist setup. That's nutsofubar. A love tap or DHC ends people.

I have to reset in 2v3 a total of once midscreen with one meter in most circumstances. Solo, it's two touch kill across the board meterless. :|

She does... horrendous damage, and I'm not even doing her "best" combos. The stealth buff is that everyone does less damage, and Painwheel still does monstrous damage in the corner after max undizzy, and everyone else is shit babby damage town.
...you said corner... Haha. I win in corner.


Midscreen damage is what I care about.


Also, what is this 14.3k damage combo you are doing? Or are you talking about a reset as well?
 
Dime_x said:
...you said corner... Haha. I win in corner.


Midscreen damage is what I care about.

The corner carry I use does damage very similar to the full corner combo, and it works at 50% stage. That means if I land a hit, it's quite often going to end in murderdeath for the opponent.

Anywhere else, I just do L.Nail > Dash Forward > s.HK(3) xx Fly > crossunder.6j.HK mixups for a reset that ruins people without good air options. Wholly ambiguous, meaty and unreactable.

Dime_x said:
Also, what is this 14.3k damage combo you are doing? Or are you talking about a reset as well?

Been ending corner carry and corner combos with Assist(L.Bomber) that allows me to combo into Charged Nails. Leads to them falling from an airborn state into a standing mixup. Spaced correctly, it can be very tricky to reversal out of.

The entire sequence allows me to spend a grand total of one meter after a corner carry to take out someone from full life in 2v2.
 
Dime_x said:
So how is painwheel feeling to you guys with the new 240 undizzy?

240 Undizzy is the standard.

Counter-hit adds undizzy, 25 for lights, 50 for mediums and specials/throws, 100 for heavies.

Hatred Armor reciprocates damage based on the attack damage taken.

With all of that in mind, which character can semi-reasonably often sometimes occasionally go fishing for a hail-mary counter-hit and bust you for MDE damage + whatever she took during startup?

BxO51o5.jpg

Which characters can only watch in horror as {spoiler above} does that kind of damage to them?

KtxXWa3.jpg


Also all that stuff Krackatoa said. He is very smart, helpful, and creates combos with lots of Buers (which by the way have a crazy damage:stun ratio) that are great for the current version if you don't have your own routes yet.
 
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I don't really plan around counter-hits. I don't really need to. It's really good when you land a hit with your back to the corner. Just go into L.Stinger reset back in the other direction. You'll then get a full combo.

That being said, we really need a Red Undizzy bar for when it goes into the negatives.
 
I think I a start messing around with pbgc lk buer... No invincibility, but it can be canceled into install on hit or block so that alone should make it worth experimenting with.
 
Dime_x said:
I think I a start messing around with pbgc lk buer... No invincibility, but it can be canceled into install on hit or block so that alone should make it worth experimenting with.

It's gonna be situational. Not only is it not invincible, but it has a massive hurtbox before it's active.

I think the problem you're going to run into is that you're going to have a tough time reacting to the certain situations where it'd be a good idea.

The crazy thing about Buer though, is that you can option-select Install. Install doesn't come out on Hit just anywhere in the animation, it needs to happen during or after impact of the second "Hit". On block, there's only one hit, which has no cinematic, and is fully cancelable, and the cancel window is far earlier than the cancel window of Hit-Buer.

So no Install if it hits, Install if it doesn't.
 
Krackatoa said:
It's gonna be situational. Not only is it not invincible, but it has a massive hurtbox before it's active.

I think the problem you're going to run into is that you're going to have a tough time reacting to the certain situations where it'd be a good idea.

The crazy thing about Buer though, is that you can option-select Install. Install doesn't come out on Hit just anywhere in the animation, it needs to happen during or after impact of the second "Hit". On block, there's only one hit, which has no cinematic, and is fully cancelable, and the cancel window is far earlier than the cancel window of Hit-Buer.

So no Install if it hits, Install if it doesn't.

What PBGC are good staples to have for PW? Is it easy to PBGC into charged hp? Into ground super?
 
Ground super is the only thing that will come out for sure. Everything else could get stuffed in startup. Depending on the matchup lk buer is decent against fireball and lnl-type blockstring enders.

On a different note: I'm trying to use flight more to get around crossunder setups. Its also a decent os with super or hk buer. Better than trying to block the setup.
 
konkrete said:
On a different note: I'm trying to use flight more to get around crossunder setups. Its also a decent os with super or hk buer. Better than trying to block the setup.

I've had a lot better luck using plain old falling j.LK against Val's j.LK crossunder reset.

Depending on the air chain she used to put you up there, flight works well on Parasoul's crossunders though.

Haven't seen/played enough Doubles to mess with those, but I would imagine flight to be the better option in case they panic > car.
 
Yeah you guys are all right... Still gonna work on it and see where it can fit in... But how about install as a pbgc? It's safe on block and can probably be done straight into armored st.lp (2 hits of armor in install) or basically any of her armor moves... I'm just theory fighting up stuff with her. Probably won't work out great cause of armor startup... But you never know, things that don't seem as if they SHOULD work.... Sometimes do.


All in all pw is off my teams for now... She doesn't feel as strong on point for me as in mde or even sde...so I have to theory fight up a completely new team designed for her on point, or I need to design a new team for her with her at second or third to make use of install cheese.


The primary problem that I've been having with her now, is getting out zoned because my assists get locked out... Which makes me call assists less, which makes me have no real neutral game "pokes" with her besides the highly telegraphed stingers and such... Basically I find myself having to use a more bait oriented strategy... Which I can't stand because bait oriented strategies just remind me of sf4...
Anyways, that's just my problems.... I still like pw... But I'm struggling to find a niche with her in this new version.
 
Dime_x said:
...

I fly solo PW so I can help a bit with being assist-less, but I think the straight and simple truth is that PW without assists is a constant uphill battle (more so than a lot of the other cast). Your entire game revolves around catching your opponent fucking up which means they have the moment up until you confirm.

What specifically is giving you problems (or who rather?).

I like stingers into flight to get some breathing room, and a random stinger when you are given space will occasionally luck out and assist lock the enemy. j.mp into flight cancels on random hits is super important to maintaining pressure. Charged j.hp will get you through most zone. I actually have a far harder time vs Parasouls and Peacocks that bulldog me because my priority is so shitty. If they zone, it is just a matter of time for me to catch them usually.

I mostly play her for her aesthetic though, and no doubt I am a bit biased, but I think she is a touch less viable than a lot of the cast (solo anyway, I've no idea how she is in a team). I can't think of 1 MU in PWs favor, and I can think of quite a few that aren't.

Anyway, none of this might address your concerns, but there you go... wall o' text.
 
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Dime_x said:
Yeah you guys are all right... Still gonna work on it and see where it can fit in... But how about install as a pbgc? It's safe on block and can probably be done straight into armored st.lp (2 hits of armor in install) or basically any of her armor moves... I'm just theory fighting up stuff with her. Probably won't work out great cause of armor startup... But you never know, things that don't seem as if they SHOULD work.... Sometimes do.

Install is actually amazing because it immediately puts PW at +5 when coming out of the animation. This guarantees you a super if you see they're not blocking, or lets you reach the s.LP/cr.LP armor window if there isn't an active hitbox sitting on you as you come out of the Install animation.

It doesn't guarantee you a hit (Unless the person did a non-meaty, shitty thing and they don't have meter/a good cancel option), but it makes a great reversal, because it effectively nulls the current mixup and gives PW frame advantage.
 
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Spencer said:
I fly solo PW so I can help a bit with being assist-less, but I think the straight and simple truth is that PW without assists is a constant uphill battle (more so than a lot of the other cast). Your entire game revolves around catching your opponent fucking up which means they have the moment up until you confirm.

its not that I have a problem playing painwheel assistless... I don't even think its that hard, its just that playing a team based painwheel, assistless is hard. in other words... assisted painwheel (teams) and assistless painwheel (solo) are almost completely different characters to me... ie... I do an AA thresher into fullcombo for solo pw... my risk reward is much lower on the risk end, and much higher on the reward end... so its scarier.

but assisted painwhel can threaten things that solo pw never can... such as flying around and just calling a pillar or updo for someone trying to jump in and hit her during flight.

the problem is, right now im not seeing the damage, as a trio, for how kinda crappy her teams neutral has become.

What specifically is giving you problems (or who rather?).


specifically its just getting baited to overextend, to much. its just not the game I intended to play with pw. I know how to beat the strategy. I just don't like the fact that things that beat the (bait) strategy, open me up to strategies that I CANT beat, or have a overly hard time beating...


I mean, that's what I want to do to other people... not have done to me.


I like stingers into flight to get some breathing room, and a random stinger when you are given space will occasionally luck out and assist lock the enemy. j.mp into flight cancels on random hits is super important to maintaining pressure.


yeah this is good. the problem is reliability though... it isn't something that I think pw can really base her game around... though MAYBE she can base a bait based game around it... I should probably try that out. problem though, is that is bait based... im really trying to stay away from bait based strategies with her... cause I don't really feel like they are in her best interest.

but yeah, point taken. though I of course already do use stingers with her. maybe I should try and design a point team around her stinger? idk...

Charged j.hp will get you through most zone

I haven't found that to be true. I mostly just make shit wiff in fly then go in, or I dash empty jump. but that's just me.

I actually have a far harder time vs Parasouls and Peacocks that bulldog me because my priority is so shitty. If they zone, it is just a matter of time for me to catch them usually.

I concur, though ive only ever met one really good attacking peacock.


I mostly play her for her aesthetic though, and no doubt I am a bit biased, but I think she is a touch less viable than a lot of the cast (solo anyway, I've no idea how she is in a team). I can't think of 1 MU in PWs favor, and I can think of quite a few that aren't.


im pretty much agreed here as well. I mean she DID get better, much better in fact, from sde... but it was pretty much almost all to her secondary or 3rd abilities. all she really got was better install which makes it a great dhc, and for neutral she got stingers...but they are slow. and she actually got a stealth nerf by losing her very good lvl1 pinion...but I digress.

perhaps I just need to make her stinger game a priority on point...


yeah that's probably it... I cant think of anything else that isn't supremely bait based. I will say that I think pw does really well against offensive fortunes... pws armor is highly applicable in the matchup as ar as current meta is concerned, imho.
 
I feel she's super good, but that's just me. She has plenty of ambiguous setups, with assists and without, that do a sizable amount of damage relative to the rest of the cast. I also find her neutral game is pretty good. I get a ridiculous amount of mileage out of j.MP, j.HP, j.HK, Air Buer, and a shit ton of proper spacing. Her air momentum is highly volatile with the fly cancels, so air-throwing and air-to-airing her is difficult if you stay mobile. I'm never not fly cancelling, and it works.

Also, I feel like she's really good solo, simply because everything she does at that point is two or one-touch to death. With a duo, she's wins because math. With trio, look at Taluda and his rolling over of PC Skullbats the other day. He does magical, unreactable things with assist cover.

Painwheel's damage looks much better if you break down her resets into points where they do the most damage total, and make sure you only have to do it so much before Undizzy limits your options.
 
Krackatoa said:
Snip


Hmmm... At this point I'd rather see your vids than hear your words. Taluda doesn't make painwheel look good... He makes him look good, like sako makes ibuki look good and daigo makes ryu look good.

But Rufus makes Rufus look good and zero makes zero look good... If you smell what I'm cooking.


You have peaked my interest though.. Mass flight cancels you say? Id like to see this since I haven't tried it before. Seems dubious on paper, but upclose her flight cancel game is pretty crazy. At neutral... I just don't see her being good there. You have parasoul and peacock and Bella to deal with, who imho have a better neutral than pw if they disrespect her and go in. And then bait her tries to keep them from doing so.


But like I said..
It's much easier said than done. Ima go watch taluda versus sage again and see if I can't come up with something against Bella... But I'm guessing that it's almost all sage just respecting pw a bit much... Which I understand, but don't necessarily agree with.
 
I feel like dealing with Bella, Peacock and Parasoul specifically require a TON of flight cancels. Especially for Peacock. If you can keep her guessing between how you're going to use a flight cancel (You charge j.HP xx Fly > then move forward and either charge another j.HP or whiff a normal downwards), she has a very tough time setting up her fullscreen baloney.

Dime_x said:
But like I said..
It's much easier said than done. Ima go watch taluda versus sage again and see if I can't come up with something against Bella... But I'm guessing that it's almost all sage just respecting pw a bit much... Which I understand, but don't necessarily agree with.

Land a Hit > L.Stinger > Dash > s.HK(3) xx Fly > j.HK crossunder/not-crossunder vortex. It let me take a game from Taluda without doing anything fancy (Ate through his whole team). It's Bella-proof, cause she's heavy and has no air options.
 
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Krackatoa said:
I also find her neutral game is pretty good. I get a ridiculous amount of mileage out of j.MP, j.HP, j.HK, Air Buer, and a shit ton of proper spacing. Her air momentum is highly volatile with the fly cancels, so air-throwing and air-to-airing her is difficult if you stay mobile. I'm never not fly cancelling, and it works.

Also, I feel like she's really good solo, simply because everything she does at that point is two or one-touch to death.

This applies only to PW solo:

I disagree with the neutral game bit. Her ground game is slow as fuck and her air game isn't much better. She has some tricksy stuff she can pull with cancels, but those are a tad niche.

Her air game is slightly better. It is unique in that once the move comes out, it is pretty solid, but the priority is shit. I cannot count the number of times I've been thrown doing a j.mp or j.hp, and j.hk is great, but it has pretty tight parameters when it should be used and isn't something that can just be thrown out. And aside from that... that's it. j.lp and j.lk are half worthless as anything but combo transitioners, and j.mp is super solid but specific. I find I get most use out of it as the next step in a confirm.

While you are right that her damage is scary, keep in mind that she buckles under pressure and due to terrible confirm and every team having a dp assist, she 100% needs her opponent to fuck up. She has zero momentum at the start of a match. Not to mention that it needs to be done at least twice on another solo (and I find more), and at least once per character on a team (though I find twice is more accurate) meaning you need to confirm up to 6 times. Admittedly, her reset game is scary, so if you can get in and get that hit, momentum swings dramatically in her favor, but that hit can be pretty awful to get.

Not to mention that when cornered, PW goes from okay to fucked really fast since she has zero quick move to mash out. I'd really love to see her super travel farther, at least that way when I'm being air pressured, I could super under and reset to neutral for meter.
 
Priority? These moves all have some of the dandiest receded hurtboxes in the game. Stop being predictable and people will stop airthrowing you. You want to start these moves out of air-throw range, and let the giant ass persistent hitboxes do the rest.

Also, as far as mash goes, she has Install, which I consider one of the best reversals in the game.

I think you are all bad at Painwheel.
 
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Krackatoa said:
Priority? These moves all have some of the dandiest receded hurtboxes in the game. Stop being predictable and people will stop airthrowing you. You want to start these moves out of air-throw range, and let the giant ass persistent hitboxes do the rest.

Also, as far as mash goes, she has Install, which I consider one of the best reversals in the game.

I think you are all bad at Painwheel.

Maybe.

But I don't see a lot of solo PW matches (see also: none) by those who talk about how good she is.

j.MP is the only one off-hand that has a largely receded hit box. And it is good. Slow as fuck (I believe it has the most start up of any normal, but I could be wrong), but good. It beats almost everything when it is out. The only other two I can possibly imagine you mean is j.hp and j.hk. j.hp is beat by everything below it, and j.hk is beat by everything above it.

And by mash, I didn't mean supers. I meant normals. But yes, install is good in most situations.

If you'd like to 1v1 PWs, I am almost always down. Maybe I'll learn something.
 
Quick questions:

1. Any tips on getting the j.HK at the end of (launch), j.MP, j.HP xx fly, j.MK, j.HP, j.HK? I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be fly cancelling or not, but when I don't, she's too close to the ground and just land cancels before any hitboxes come out.

2. What are you guys using for doublesnap combos/loops? Everything I've tried to find on my own allows for way to much healing on the point character while I kill the assist.
 
hlvn said:
Quick questions:

1. Any tips on getting the j.HK at the end of (launch), j.MP, j.HP xx fly, j.MK, j.HP, j.HK? I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be fly cancelling or not, but when I don't, she's too close to the ground and just land cancels before any hitboxes come out.

2. What are you guys using for doublesnap combos/loops? Everything I've tried to find on my own allows for way to much healing on the point character while I kill the assist.

Snap > Dash > cr.MP,s.HP xx L.Stinger > Dash > (1)s.LP,s.LK,cr.MP,s.HK xx Fly > 3j.LK(Whiff) > Restart from (1)

When OTGing after snap, don't bother letting the cr.MP hit fully, later hits whiff on characters like Bella sometimes.
 
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Krackatoa said:
Priority? These moves all have some of the dandiest receded hurtboxes in the game. Stop being predictable and people will stop airthrowing you. You want to start these moves out of air-throw range, and let the giant ass persistent hitboxes do the rest.

Also, as far as mash goes, she has Install, which I consider one of the best reversals in the game.

I think you are all bad at Painwheel.


Airthrow? I can't remember the last time I got airthrown. Neutral airthrows aren't what I generally lose to.

Receded hurt boxes some of the best in the game? I don't think you know some of the other characters then, because receded hurt boxes are something that mike tried to give almost every character at least 1 of. Fortune doesn't have any worth talking about afaik, but peacock has her j.hp, and j.hk Avery.

Double has j.hp and avery

Val has j.hk


Bella has j.mp and j.hp


Don't know what squiglys or bigbands is.

Filia has j.hp as well as others that are situational... But j.hp is more than good enough.

Etc etc etc

Painwheels j.mp is damn good... IF you start with spacing away from the opponent.

But when you are upclose she loses since j.mp is slow.

As far as always doing "these moves out of range and letting the giant ass hitboxes do the rest" I think you are talking about j.mp... None of the other hitboxes qualify as giant when compared to the truly gigantic hitboxes of sg.

And you know how often my j.mp gets beat or trades? ALL THE TIME. So much for letting it do the work for me.


But meh on all that... I don't want to come off as an asshole here... For all in i know you might the next coming of christ/shin painwheel x gurumaster of the 4th power supersaiyan shizzle dizzle.

But of all the painwheels I've played, none have been on some old other shit to bust out the things you are talking about. They all win because they are smart, not because painwheel is some secretly uber powerful character.

As far as getting a win against taluda... Nice.

But I got a win against duck in our set... So...nice? Not really. As far as resetting Bella in the air... Yeah I've been doing that since 2-3 months into vanilla pre patch. It's getting the hit that's hard, and it's hard because Bella can throw HER receded hitboxes at painwheel all day, and have a serious speed advantage to boot:


Bella j.mp is 14 frame startup. Painwheel j.mp is 22 frame startup. In order to beat Bella's j.mp painwheel has to press her button 9 frames faster than bella.... That's an eternity in fighting games.

Bella can also double jump to get higher than painwheel ever can and if painwheel even thinks about using air armor, Bella j.mp xx j.hp shuts it down flat.

Bella can run xx diamond dynamo to take painwheel out of the air if Bella has cats backing her... Which she generally does.

And spencer made a good point that at the start of the round, painwheel has not so great options. Since she is out of range of ALL her normals and the only way to get into range is to use her slow dash or her slow flight startup or her slow j.mp.

But like i said before, rather than try and kill each other via conversational analysis... How about you tell us who you play against, what team you use, what team they use, and post up a video or something? I mean you've got loads of combo videos posted afaik... But no match videos afaik... If I'm wrong I apologize, pls link me to them?

I want to learn, so if what you say is true, then I think I could learn a lot from watching you play.

Other than that though I just can't take you to seriously till I see you play against good players and do well.


Not trying to start a fight, just want to see this in action... Seeing is believing.
 
Pff. I never said I was some kind of amazing player, but I'm not going to shit on a character when there's still work to be done. I've never felt that I was personally out of options in neutral, or that my options are somehow lacking. If I get hit by something, all I feel is "Oh. Huh. I could have done this instead."

Taluda is no magic man. He just did his labwork.

See this post. You liked it yourself. There's still work to be done for everyone.
 
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Krackatoa said:
...

Look, when I talk about disadvantages in this game I'm talking like 4-6. I think most comps are viable. I do complain some. A lot of it isn't me asking for buffs, etc. And yes, there is tons of work to be done.

My point is rather frustration at some of PW's deficiencies one of which is a weak neutral. You may disagree with me, but you'll notice that I'm not asking for it to change, but I am acknowledging it as something that must be over come. Her moves are slow by design. Super slow... in many cases, they come out slower than any other comparable normal. This puts her at a disadvantage at neutral.

Her flight is amazing, but you can't block and it is height capped... which makes her a more risky, less mobile Val in many cases. Again, I am not asking to change that, but I think we need to be honest about it. It is something you have to work around (my problem is likely that I fly all together too much).

Similarly, I think it is pretty honest that a solo PW has no starting momentum and instead has to rely on a mistake or a lucky confirm to swing the momentum back to her.

She does have strong points. Very strong points, in fact. Her reset game makes me giggle. Her damage is lovely. I think she can fit well into a team. And her aesthetic is amazing.

I think in summary, what I am trying to say is that yeah, 90% of the problem is me. I could most definitely spend some time in training. I have a poorly optimized combo for example, and I float my j.hk crossover far more than I should. That doesn't mean that 10% of my problem is the metaphorical slamming my head into a wall that is PW at times.
 
Krackatoa said:
I don't really plan around counter-hits. I don't really need to. It's really good when you land a hit with your back to the corner. Just go into L.Stinger reset back in the other direction. You'll then get a full combo.

That being said, we really need a Red Undizzy bar for when it goes into the negatives.

I kind of just watch it to see if it does/doesn't move while going through the more braindead/opener part of a combo. If CH, I'll jazz up the end of the route or go for a reset way earlier.
 
Spencer said:
Now there's the Dime we've come to know and love.


I wrote waaay to much there... Will probably delete in a day or so....


Death by words seems appropriate for that mass of opinion.
 
Ooook i guess I'll just put in my two cents here.

Painwheel's neutral game is actually really good aside from a few bad matchups (Parasoul and Peacock) and converting off of assists is REALLY easy with her imo. She just needs a good assist that covers a lot of ground (MK bomber, DnB, LnL, BB's rush punch, HK hairball ect ect ect).

She's not one of the top characters, but she's really not underpowered at all. Her biggest fault is her lack of defensive options, which can by partly solved with a good old DP assist.

As for her ability as a solo character..... i think she's one of the worst. She REALLY needs some sort of DP assist and she's sooooo god damned scary with MK bomber or a similar assist. She's best played in a team of 3, or a team of 2 imo
 
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@Dime_x

If you really want to start bringing up player rep in videos, I don't think I've ever seen you win a match.
I admit I was not converting off of my assists very well in my set against Khaos, but I haven't exactly been in the best state of mind the last month or so, and its really effected my play.
Its also kind of silly to just judge a character's ability from only videos you've seen. Not every match is recorded, so just because theres not a video of something happening, it doesn't mean its not true.

Her air conversion is amazing and I have nooo idea how you're saying its bad. I have enough time to react from a confirmed DP assist to jump, press j.mp, and confirm into a combo.

J.mp is an amazing normal. Huge range, braindead-easy to convert from, multihit, and has a disjointed hitbox.Sure its slow, but you deserve to get hit out of it if you try to throw it out there up close. If you don't know how to use that move to it's full potential, you don't know how to play Painwheel.

You also seem to not know of the strength of her j.lp. You can use her J.lp similar to how Parasoul uses hers. Dashjump j.lp j.lk j.mk is fucking AMAZING on hit or on block. While it obviously doesn't have the range of Parasoul's, its still very quick and extremely easy to convert from, and if you whiff it, OOPS OH NO you can just FC into another attack or run away or whatever.

TLTR: you're a dingus she's great at converting off of everything and don't base everything from videos
 
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Domo is special said:
You also seem to not know of the strength of her j.lp. You can use her J.lp similar to how Parasoul uses hers. Dashjump j.lp j.lk j.mk is fucking AMAZING on hit or on block. While it obviously doesn't have the range of Parasoul's, its still very quick and extremely easy to convert from, and if you whiff it, OOPS OH NO you can just FC into another attack or run away or whatever.

This fucking tip. <3
 
@Domo is special

You are talking about things that I'm not. I'm talking about conversion via hitconfirming with an assist. You are talking about anticipating assist hits and converting.

As far as j.mp is concerned... I don't see how that applies since j.mp isn't an assist. Though I will admit that by saying "conversion" instead of "assist confirming" that I allowed the 2 things to be interchanged when they are anything but interchangeable... One is safe, one is not.

Having said that, though, I think I actually learned something from your post, the way you've been converting bombers with pw has been via anticipating hit, not actual confirming. I will definitely try that, unsafe as hell though it is, it's worth it with painwheels low upclose priority to do something hard to punish/slightly unsafe, to maximize rewards from anticipated assist conversions.


Still, it is no hitconfirm if you have to do something unsafe before the assist hits (such as fly with the assist)... But then again I guess even doing cr.lk is unsafe, technically.

So kudos.
 
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