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Painwheel MDE Combo Thread (Page 3 Onwards)

Spencer said:
How does IPS work with assists?

Assist + Ground Start = Stage 2 > Use the Corner Carry

Assist + Aerial String = Stage 2, Ground String = Stage 3 > Omit the first string of the corner carry + You get 15 more Undizzy to Play with. (Effective range about 35% of stage, give or take based on weight)

If you're like way midscreen, just reset or burn meters until they dead.
 
About how much damage are you guys getting from Car > Install?

I'm getting about 9.2k (@ 1.00 damage) from LK Hornet Bomber > Car > Install and it seems low for the meter, but I dunno if that's normal since the MDE/Encore Undizzy changes or if my combos need a lot more damage:dizzy optimization.
 
hlvn said:
About how much damage are you guys getting from Car > Install?

I'm getting about 9.2k (@ 1.00 damage) from LK Hornet Bomber > Car > Install and it seems low for the meter, but I dunno if that's normal since the MDE/Encore Undizzy changes or if my combos need a lot more damage:dizzy optimization.

Just post the notation and I'll give you a better combo if there is one. :|
 
hlvn said:
About how much damage are you guys getting from Car > Install?

I'm getting about 9.2k (@ 1.00 damage) from LK Hornet Bomber > Car > Install and it seems low for the meter, but I dunno if that's normal since the MDE/Encore Undizzy changes or if my combos need a lot more damage:dizzy optimization.
That seems pretty good, I'm only getting 8k from Big Band super DHC to Install. Car is arguably a better super for it though, with Big Band the DHC only works on hit if your back is to the corner, and you need to burn your OTG right away.

This is what I'm doing for that if anyone like @Krackatoa has something better:

Super Sonic Jazz, DHC to Hatred Install, dash,
OTG L Buer Reaper xx Fly,
j.LP xx H Buer Reaper,
j.MK xx H Buer Reaper xx fly,
j.HP xx H Buer Reaper,
j.HK xx H Buer Reaper,
c.MP, s.HP xx L Buer Reaper

I should probably figure out a better way to end this combo too if I don't have meter for a Death Crawl :x
 
mcpeanuts said:
That seems pretty good, I'm only getting 8k from Big Band super DHC to Install. Car is arguably a better super for it though, with Big Band the DHC only works on hit if your back is to the corner, and you need to burn your OTG right away.

This is what I'm doing for that if anyone like @Krackatoa has something better:

195 Undizzy... You can always do more. <_<

Character specific, but try this on medium/lights. (I'm in class right now and can't sit down with the game)

L.Buer xx Fly >
9j.LK xx Air.HK.Buer >
j.MK xx Air.HK.Buer >
j.MP(4) xx Air.HK.Buer xx Fly >
9j.HK(5) xx Air.HK.Buer >
s.LK xx LK.Buer xx Fly >
3j.LP >
s.LP,s.LK,cr.MP,s.HP xx LK.Buer xx Deathcrawl

The problem is midscreen you can't land the whole j.HP, so it's not worth the undizzy. j.MP costs 20 drama, and does just as much damage (Certainly more than j.HP(3)). O:
 
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Krackatoa said:
195 Undizzy... You can always do more. <_<

Character specific, but try this on medium/lights. (I'm in class right now and can't sit down with the game)

L.Buer xx Fly >
9j.LK xx Air.HK.Buer >
j.MK xx Air.HK.Buer >
j.MP(4) xx Air.HK.Buer xx Fly >
9j.HK(5) xx Air.HK.Buer >
s.LK xx LK.Buer xx Fly >
3j.LP >
s.LP,s.LK,cr.MP,s.HP xx LK.Buer xx Deathcrawl

The problem is midscreen you can't land the whole j.HP, so it's not worth the undizzy. j.MP costs 20 drama, and does just as much damage (Certainly more than j.HP(3)). O:
I can give it a shot, but worth noting: with my team it's always gonna be a corner combo if I'm doing it at all. You can't combo off Super Sonic Jazz DHC to Hatred Install midscreen.
 
mcpeanuts said:
I can give it a shot, but worth noting: with my team it's always gonna be a corner combo if I'm doing it at all. You can't combo off Super Sonic Jazz DHC to Hatred Install midscreen.

This will still be better. <_<

If you want corner optimized, I'll have to think about it. Swap the cr.MP for s.MK then.

Edit. If you're already at the corner, you can do stuff like HK.Buer to catch them, then go into raw Air.LK.Buer into stuff. Way more optimal path.

Also,also. You can just DHC the third hit of SSJ to get a full midscreen ground combo. <_<
 
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Krackatoa said:
Also,also. You can just DHC the third hit of SSJ to get a full midscreen ground combo. <_<
Does this really work? You can certainly DHC into Death Crawl if you DHC on the third hit, but I wouldn't think you had the frames to get a full Hatred Install combo. I'll have to check that.
 
The thing that made me realize I wanted a good install combo really was PBGC LK Bomber, which isn't always in the greatest places. It's kind of weird to compare notes from different supers midscreen since we may have different teams, but I figured there was enough PW/Double player overlap that it was worth asking.

Krackatoa said:
Just post the notation and I'll give you a better combo if there is one. :|

lol, fair enough.

Midscreen LK Butt > Car > Install:

LK Buer xx Fly xx (TK9)HK Buer
j.MK, HK Buer,
j.LP, j.LK, j.MK, HK Buer,
c.MP, st.HK,
j.MP, j.HP*, [Buer | Thresher if meter]

*thinking the j.HP can be swapped out for the j.HK > crossup j.HK Taluda reset since it's so high up.
 
hlvn said:
j.LP, j.LK, j.MK, HK Buer,
c.MP, st.HK,
j.MP, j.HP*, [Buer | Thresher if meter]

8|

You have normals here that cancel into other normals.

What is this? Non-Buersville?

Also, you guys should remember that since we're talking about DHC combos, you have access to assists. :D

Edit: And just so I'm not talking out my ass. Here's a (tested on Filia and Parasoul) combo.

9.3k Corner SSJ DHC Hatred Install with no Deathcrawl Ender feat. Beat Extend

Super Sonic Jazz (4 Hits /Back to Corner) DHC Hatred Install >
OTG L.Buer xx Fly >
9j.LK xx Air.H.Buer >
8j.MP xx Air.L.Buer xx Fly >
3j.HP(4) xx Air.L.Buer xx Fly >
9j.MK xx Air.H.Buer >
s.LK xx LK.Buer xx Fly >
6j.LP* >
s.LP,s.LK,cr.MP,f.HK (Mash and call Beat Extend on Second Hit) xx Fully Charged H.Nails

*Because of Install you need to do 6j.LP in this instance. 3j.LP won't connect after L.Buer during Install.

This does about 10.9k if you land BB's s.LK(2),cr.MP(2),cr.HP xx H.Brass Knuckle first. 11446 with Taunt Stocked (With BB facing the corner).

This gets Double 10.1k off of a string into Car xx Install. No enders.
 
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Alright after testing this for two seconds you can in fact do 3 hits of Super Sonic Jazz, DHC to Hatred Install, then combo into L Buer Reaper and get a midscreen combo. I don't know why I thought you couldn't. I think maybe what I did was try c.LK and when that didn't work I was like "welp guess it doesn't work"
 
mcpeanuts said:
Alright after testing this for two seconds you can in fact do 3 hits of Super Sonic Jazz, DHC to Hatred Install, then combo into L Buer Reaper and get a midscreen combo. I don't know why I thought you couldn't. I think maybe what I did was try c.LK and when that didn't work I was like "welp guess it doesn't work"

If you can't reach after the DHC. You can kara-buer with cr.HP for a bit of added range, making it easier to connect if you DHC just as the 3rd hit connects.

The only reason I found that you can combo after the 3rd hit of SSJ so quick was that I went through the same thing with Double Car. <_<
 
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So yeah.

During full corner combo. If you omit j.MP, j.HP xx Air.LK.Buer xx Fly > j.HK restand > Final String.

And do j.MP xx Air.LK.Buer > j.HK restand > s.MK(4) xx LK.Buer xx Fly > 6j.LK > Final String.

You do more damage. <_<

Ooops.

So this is new optimal path. Works on Bella, Parasoul, Double(!)... probably other mediums.
 
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Does anyone here have anything above 7.5 k midscreen one meter, non character specific, no counter hit, cr.lk starter?


Ive been topping out at 7.5k no matter the route i take.

Hard links, easy links, early lk buer, late lk buer, omit as many lights as possible... Etc etc... Cant get over 7.5k.
 
Dime_x said:
Does anyone here have anything above 7.5 k midscreen one meter, non character specific, no counter hit, cr.lk starter?


Ive been topping out at 7.5k no matter the route i take.

Hard links, easy links, early lk buer, late lk buer, omit as many lights as possible... Etc etc... Cant get over 7.5k.

Check out Krackatoa's combos. If he doesn't have highest, he's toward the top. From the look of it, if you are mid screen you are better off resetting until you get into corner carry range.
 
Spencer said:
Check out Krackatoa's combos. If he doesn't have highest, he's toward the top. From the look of it, if you are mid screen you are better off resetting until you get into corner carry range.

I cut a little bit of damage out of them for ease of use, but for the most part they're wonderful.
 
Dime_x said:
Does anyone here have anything above 7.5 k midscreen one meter, non character specific, no counter hit, cr.lk starter?


Ive been topping out at 7.5k no matter the route i take.

Hard links, easy links, early lk buer, late lk buer, omit as many lights as possible... Etc etc... Cant get over 7.5k.

50% to stage edge, your options for damage open up as the s.MP Launch > Raw Air.LK.Buer xx Fly > 9j.MK xx Air.LK.Buer xx Fly > j.MP(4) xx Air.LK.Buer > OTG Something becomes available
 
Spencer said:
Check out Krackatoa's combos. If he doesn't have highest, he's toward the top. From the look of it, if you are mid screen you are better off resetting until you get into corner carry range.


Yep, but krack is a corner/character specific/weirdo starter specialist (not that that is bad, it just isnt what I'm looking for right now). Im looking for top end midscreen damage with no fluff (ch, assist,weird starter,character specific etc), primarily to see if im eeking out the optimal damage when my resources are low or nonexistent. I basically see all those things listed as resources since one can never be sure to have them available... With the exception of weirdo starters.. But they happen so rarely.

And yep i know and agree that resets are better midscreen... Though ive started to adopt corner carry more...corner carry is a gift that has the potential to continue giving the entire match, whereas a midscreen reset, especially a full undizzy reset only gives so much. I'm still working on whether or not its better to corner or reset midscreen... But i guess its more about my team, me and my opponent. If I'm capable of destroying my opponents entire team in the corner... Then corner carry is likely the best option... But if my opponent can break the corner routinely... Its probably better to just reset.


@Krackatoa

Yeah, ive been using your st.mp lk buer tech. I like it a lot. But ive been using it differently. Mainly i use it to do an otg j.mp from further out of the corner than the j.mk works at. It even works of the j.mp is burstable cause painwheel can cancel the first hit and fastfall and block the burst. Then she can call a lockdown assist or something to bait the after burst reversal that is usually coming.


Question:

Whats your best combo into st.mp, air lk buer, j.mp otg in the corner?

I'm not a corner technician or id figure it out myself, but its been doing my head in.

Also ive been using these as my starters:


Cr.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx lk buer fly j.lk, lk buer, j.lp,cr.mp,st.hk


Or


Cr.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx fly j.lk,st.hp xx lk buer fly j.lp,cr.mk,st.hp xx lp stinger, fly j.mk st.hk


Or


Cr.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx j.lk,cr.mk,st.hp xx lk buer fly j.lp, st.mp


Which of these are the best to go into the j.mp otg in your opinion and what can be done from there?

All of those combos are easy enough to be able to make into a bnb, I'm just not great at finding optimal ending paths.
 
If you really can't do the full air series, I would call assist during j.MP OTG to set up the s.HK reset.

Usually I do one of two things as a default:

1. Combo > j.MP(4) xx Air.LK.Buer OTG Something into s.HK(2) xx Fly > 9j.MK ambiguous crossup (Mixed with other options).

2. Combo > j.MP(4) + Call Bomber > s.HK(2) xx Fly > 9j.MK ambiguous crossup (Mixed with other options).

PW will land in front of the opponent after the crossup, more often than not. This leads to a 6.1k reset for 1 meter at full Undizzy. Starting at 130 or lower (Due to CH or whatever) nets you 7.5k. It's also an air reset.

So you do like 8k on the lead up, then another 6k on the reset, which is pretty much a dead character in 2v2.
 
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BETA FUN - WILL BE GONE SOON


Also, yo. Do any combo into L.Stinger on Big Band, then dash jump j.LP > Uncomboed j.MK :|
 
It's like headbanging
 
what are painwheel's bnb's? I run Parasoul what is Painwheel's best assit? Any guides/Tutorials I should watch or read?
 
IknowReal said:
what are painwheel's bnb's? I run Parasoul what is Painwheel's best assit? Any guides/Tutorials I should watch or read?

There was a phenomenal tutorial that went down with the site crash a few months ago. I really wish the author (whoever it was) would put it back up if they have it saved. I've been tempted to write one myself though I have almost zero time, and I haven't been playing much lately.

BnB: Look up Krackatoa's stuff (he's got a youtube). I would strongly recommend coming up with one yourself, at least initially. It will give you a better understanding of IPS, and your moves. After that, I would seek to optimize.

Some common assists:
PW-Double is probably the most common PW pair that I see.
You'll find PW on quite a few teams of 3 as point (usually).
PW and Parasoul seems strong and is what Noah runs.

I'll leave the assists question to someone who actually plays PW in a team.
 
BnB: Look up Krackatoa's stuff (he's got a youtube). I would strongly recommend coming up with one yourself, at least initially. It will give you a better understanding of IPS, and your moves. After that, I would seek to optimize.

I remember when I looked up Krackatoa's guide to learn new BnBs and got disappointed when his stuff only did about 100 more damage than mine (._.()

-Sad trombone-

PW and Parasoul seems strong and is what Noah runs.

At this point I am convinced that Parasoul works with pretty much everyone.
 
PS does go well with everyone but it's a good shell because of the other way around. Cr.mp assist gives lockdown, and unlike Butt it allows for awkward/long-range confirms and you won't use otg. Just as well shot>install dhc is pretty darn good.
 
Yeah Parasoul is strong as an assist.

Any of the invuln DP assists + Double generally go well with anyone (MF less so).
 
GO TO HELL said:
I remember when I looked up Krackatoa's guide to learn new BnBs and got disappointed when his stuff only did about 100 more damage than mine (._.()

-Sad trombone-

Undizzy changes normalized damage numbers across a number of routes, so there's not a lot of extra juice to squeeze if you're doing full combos. Best I got is like 9.6k on three characters with assist and 1 meter.

The midscreen corner carry is the most useful combo in there, because it does hobillions meterless damage that sets up a 6k ambiguous air-crossup reset. That's usually a dead character in same ratio, and has a very lenient space requirement (Just over halfway across the stage? You're good.)

Some modular CH routes are also on my channel, which lead into the same sweet PW resets with the right assist (You can do 10k meterless into a 6k reset for 1 meter on Heavy and Medium CHs 25% to the corner)

What are you using currently?
 
Krackatoa said:
Undizzy changes normalized damage numbers across a number of routes, so there's not a lot of extra juice to squeeze if you're doing full combos. Best I got is like 9.6k on three characters with assist and 1 meter.

Yeah, it really did. I'm definitely not complaining though!


The midscreen corner carry is the most useful combo in there, because it does hobillions meterless damage that sets up a 6k ambiguous air-crossup reset. That's usually a dead character in same ratio, and has a very lenient space requirement (Just over halfway across the stage? You're good.)

Actually, that's the only one I picked up from your guide. That thing is definitely super useful.


Some modular CH routes are also on my channel, which lead into the same sweet PW resets with the right assist (You can do 10k meterless into a 6k reset for 1 meter on Heavy and Medium CHs 25% to the corner, that's over 50% versus solo for 1 bar...)

!!!

Sweet!

I really need to figure out ways to optimize damage off of fully charged CH normals. I hit with them often enough (Once per game, usually) that it'd be really good to have in my back pocket. Given that I play solo, I really ought to be able to convert into a kill off of it, or get really damn close.

Also, one of the funniest things you can do is fully charged cr.HP CH -> Hatred Install -> charge st.HP -> flight -> charge jHP.

Massive waste of meter, and it prorates your combo to hell, but it's pretty funny.
 
GO TO HELL said:
I really need to figure out ways to optimize damage off of fully charged CH normals. I hit with them often enough (Once per game, usually) that it'd be really good to have in my back pocket. Given that I play solo, I really ought to be able to convert into a kill off of it, or get really damn close.

In the corner, due to charged H normals leaving them grounded, you can't launch and get multi-buer Stage 3/4 goodness, I think it's actually best to look at an immediately s.MP launch, or even cr.MK,s.HP xx L.Nail > s.MP or cr.MK,s.HP+Assist Call > s.MP launch, then go into the carry's major air series (Raw Buer).

The reason being is that you want to preserve your jumping lights for more buers towards the end of the combo to get full damage. It's a really wonky situation.
 
Krackatoa said:
In the corner, due to charged H normals leaving them grounded, you can't launch and get multi-buer Stage 3/4 goodness, I think it's actually best to look at an immediately s.MP launch, or even cr.MK,s.HP xx L.Nail > s.MP or cr.MK,s.HP+Assist Call > s.MP launch, then go into the carry's major air series (Raw Buer).

The reason being is that you want to preserve your jumping lights for more buers towards the end of the combo to get full damage. It's a really wonky situation.

tbh, if I hit the armored CH st.HP, I just chain the ground LK buer on and go into the (3)j.LP, st.MP part of the corner carry combo you came up with.

i highly doubt it's optimal, but it's simple enough and it usually ends up being 8-9k+ anyways because of the hatred damage share depending on what PW ate on startup.
 
hlvn said:
tbh, if I hit the armored CH st.HP, I just chain the ground LK buer on and go into the (3)j.LP, st.MP part of the corner carry combo you came up with.

i highly doubt it's optimal, but it's simple enough and it usually ends up being 8-9k+ anyways because of the hatred damage share depending on what PW ate on startup.

LK.Buer forces scaling to 50% + 1 Hit (I think). You're wasting a ton of damage by going right into Buer.
 
Lk buer does indeed scale to 50% as does lp stinger.
 
Krackatoa said:
LK.Buer forces scaling to 50% + 1 Hit (I think). You're wasting a ton of damage by going right into Buer.

welp
 
Dime_x said:
Lk buer does indeed scale to 50% as does lp stinger.
The thing about L.Stinger around the 4th hit is at least you're not burning a j.LK/LP extension. A move like LK.Bomber is better, because that would put you around Hit 8 before the first Buer after:

Charged cr.HP Crumple > cr.MK,s.HP xx LK.Bomber > s.MP > LK.Buer

Optimaaal. Maybe omit cr.MK completely for s.MK(4) xx LK.Buer later in the combo.
 
You can also link c.hp pretty easily after charge hp as well
 
konkrete said:
You can also link c.hp pretty easily after charge hp as well

Yeah, but no Stage 3 Raw Buer > Stage 4 Raw Buer, and you burn 30 Undizzy on blah damage. Edit: Welp. I shut myself up pretty quick.

Best I got right now on Combo-soul is this:

Regular Bob-Joe Charged HP Corner Combo

Charged HP (Either) >
cr.HP+LK.Bomber >
s.MP >
Air.LK.Buer xx Fly >
9j.MK xx Air.LK.Buer xx Fly >
j.MP(4) xx Air.LK.Buer >
OTG s.MK(4) xx LK.Buer xx Fly >
6j.LK >
s.LP,s.LK,cr.MP,f.HK(x4) xx LK.Buer xx Deathcrawl

Does 9200 damage without any Hatred Guard (Also Requires Assist). Compare this to a cr.LK starter which is 9450 with Assist. PW does like 8.5k off a similar Assistless route, whereas off cr.LK she gets 9200.

Juiced Corner CH Version - 10.3k

Charged HP (Either) >
cr.HP+LK.Bomber >
s.HK >
Air.LK.Buer xx Fly >
9j.MK xx Air.LK.Buer xx Fly >
j.MP(4) >
s.MK(4) xx LK.Buer xx Fly >
6j.LK >
s.LK,s.MK(4) xx LK.Buer xx Fly >
3j.LP >
cr.MP xx MK.Buer >
OTG s.LP,s.LK,s.MK(4),s.HP xx LK.Buer xx Deathcrawl

There must be a better route than this, I think, but I can't see it. The reason why Painwheel does not-that-much-more-damage-on-CH is because Painwheel has to start burning two normals for the sake of combo extension (Any lights and heavies that don't cancel directly into Buer can be considered not as efficient, Mediums, j.HP(Maybe) and f.HK get a pass due to their Undizzy/Damage ratios, with Buer being the #1 Priority save for the opening hits). Her combos are front loaded, and if she gets more Undizzy to work with, she literally runs out of good moves to spend it on. I ended up sticking s.HK in the front just because I needed access to MP later on in the combo.

As I was writing this post I found this. Hahaha.

SUPER JUICED Corner CH Silly Version - 10.420k

Absorbing s.HP,HP from Parasoul gives 11377 Hobillion damages

Charged HP (Either) >
cr.HP xx Fly > Whiff 2j.MK
s.HK >
Air.LK.Buer xx Fly >
9j.MK xx Air.LK.Buer xx Fly >
j.MP(4) >
s.MK(4) xx LK.Buer xx Fly >
6j.LK >
s.LK,s.MK(4) xx LK.Buer xx Fly >
3j.LP >
cr.MP xx Call Bomber Assist + LK.Buer >
s.LP,s.LK,cr.MP,f.HK(x4) xx LK.Buer xx Deathcrawl

For reference, CH Uncharged cr.HP xx HK.Buer starter route (Good for Super Punishes), with no Hatred Guard Damage, does 10.3k... CH cr.MK starter does 10.2k... CH j.MK Starter does 10.7k. Very Properly Spaced CH j.HP nets just shy of 11k
 
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Burst-Proof Beta-Proof Buerspalooza Corner (From Instant Overhead j.LP on Big Characters)

[1] j.LP,j.MK,j.HP(4)*Bomber xx Air.LK.Buer >
[2] j.LP,j.MK,j.HK >
[3] j.LP,j.MK,j.HP(4) xx Air.LK.Buer xx Fly >
[4] 9j.LK,j.HP(4) xx Air.LK.Buer >
[5] OTG Deathcraaaaaawl

6.8k, functions under new Beta Fly-From-Special conditions. "[X]" denotes IPS Stage

*Call LK.Bomber the instance before cancelling into Buer. Make sure j.HP is done as low to the ground as possible to ensure third hit of bomber connects. Should be easier with MK and HK Bomber.

Works on Double and Big Bando Husbando.

 
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That half-full undizzy bar was bugging me so I tried it out with cat-heads.

I don't know the Double routes/enders for BB yet, but i'd imagine the 10k mark's breakable, and could be used to set up undizzy burst baits from fastfalls and such.



"[X]" denotes IPS Stage

That helps a lot. I usually write/organize my combos by chain, and this makes it way easier to follow.
 
hlvn said:
That half-full undizzy bar was bugging me so I tried it out with cat-heads.

I don't know the Double routes/enders for BB yet, but i'd imagine the 10k mark's breakable, and could be used to set up undizzy burst baits from fastfalls and such.

Er... If you want to break 10k, you simply do a full PW corner combo into DHC. The whole point of the combo there is that it's max damage if you're starting at Max Undizzy. The entire thing cannot be bursted ever.
 
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