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Painwheel MU Thread

It depends on his assist, obviously. The one that rushes forward and grabs you out of the air can be rough to deal with, especially since that is your avenue in vs Peacock.

Anything else, shouldn't be too much of a problem for you since you fly over most of it, or its range isn't "the entire screen".

I make sure to lock him out or put the damage on. Peacock is generally playing keep-away, so she can't punish you going in on an assist like others can... so go in on the assist.

What assist was giving you trouble?
 
Spencer said:
Peacock is generally playing keep-away, so she can't punish you going in on an assist like others can...
?? Peacock is the #1 assist protector, being able to safely toss projectiles in your face as punishment for attempting to hurt her assists, or even stop you from attempting the punish altogether by keeping you locked down via Item Drop + Plane + etc.
Every other character risks eating a happy birthday and has to be rather careful.
 
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I've found the opposite as PW. Fly into j.mk into fly/block is borderline immune to projectiles as it happens so fast. If you've already baited out air George and SOID, you can generally hit a full round of j.mp which with solo ratios and increased assist damage puts the hurt on pretty nicely (and from my experience, most Peacock's are doing this all in a fairly predictable pattern, so you don't even need to really bait the moves... just wait). And air George is easy as shit to dodge while flying and SOID is almost always mp and Big Band rushes forward keeping me out of SOID tracking range. Peacock's other moves won't hit you until you land... so cancel back into flight.

The exception of course is his rushing air throw move which would make the above completely moot.
 
Solo I can handle him now. He's really easy to destroy since he's so huge.
His combos are sick though so I gotta work on a better defense->counter.

I haven't ran into many pea/bands, so I haven't had much practice on it.
I'm doing much better against Peacock teams though since the last time I mentioned them.
The Idiomatic still takes a dump on me every time I play him, but what can I say?
He's a lot better than me lol. So I'm okay with that.
 
OK, I have a pretty big issue with Fukua. No doubt part of my problem is the fact that I own a PS3, so I've never gotten the chance to actually learn what Fukua can do. I kinda just learned all of her moves by playing against her online. Now that I realize some of what she can do, I'm pretty terrified. Can we kinda piece this MU apart?

For starters, how do I deal with that grab (is it a command grab)? It has armor and it's taken 4+ of my hits so I don't know if that armor has a limit or not. It also seems to be a real grab, not one I can block. Can I tech it? Sorry if Fukua's stuff is common knowledge at this point.

Also, to verify something for myself, if I push-block Fukua, I should always block high immediately afterwards because of that phantom overhead (or w/e it is), right? Thanks a lot in advance for the help!
 
bubbaking said:
OK, I have a pretty big issue with Fukua. No doubt part of my problem is the fact that I own a PS3, so I've never gotten the chance to actually learn what Fukua can do. I kinda just learned all of her moves by playing against her online. Now that I realize some of what she can do, I'm pretty terrified. Can we kinda piece this MU apart?

For starters, how do I deal with that grab (is it a command grab)? It has armor and it's taken 4+ of my hits so I don't know if that armor has a limit or not. It also seems to be a real grab, not one I can block. Can I tech it? Sorry if Fukua's stuff is common knowledge at this point.

Also, to verify something for myself, if I push-block Fukua, I should always block high immediately afterwards because of that phantom overhead (or w/e it is), right? Thanks a lot in advance for the help!

It's a command grab, so it isn't techable, and it has forty hits of armor IIRC so you're not gonna break it wthout sweep. However it's really slow so you can just jump or fly when you see it and get a full punish. As for the phantom things, just look at Fukua's animation when she calls it. She has different ones for the overhead, sweep, and launcher. So you'll be able to see if it's overhead and react accordingly. Otherwise you should just be blocking low because the phantom is basically the only overhead she has.

Once you get used to it this matchup actually seems really bad for Fukua. Painwheel can fly right over her ground game, armor through her fireball game, and Fukua doesn't have great reversals so you can kind of just go in hard. At least that's the experience I've had.
 
Painwheel can't fly over her ground game. Medium clone hits Painwheel at max height if memory serves. That one move alone can put some not insignificant pressure on a flying PW.

I don't know how I feel about the MU yet. Most of the ones I've played aren't terribly great. The ones that are would likely be better than me anyway. She is 100% Peacock style annoying though.
 
Spencer said:
Painwheel can't fly over her ground game. Medium clone hits Painwheel at max height if memory serves. That one move alone can put some not insignificant pressure on a flying PW.

I don't know how I feel about the MU yet. Most of the ones I've played aren't terribly great. The ones that are would likely be better than me anyway. She is 100% Peacock style annoying though.


Yeah the matchup seems to be "thou shalt use jhp armor to stand a chance" its almost as if fukua is armor training in general. Without armor this matchup seems like totally bad for pw.
 
Spencer said:
Painwheel can't fly over her ground game. Medium clone hits Painwheel at max height if memory serves. That one move alone can put some not insignificant pressure on a flying PW.

It's one hit and reactable. Seems like jHP fodder to me. Plus it doesn't really cover that much of the screen, and I don't know how fast Fukua recovers in that situation but I don't think she can get much out of it unless it hits you?

Dime_x said:
Yeah the matchup seems to be "thou shalt use jhp armor to stand a chance" its almost as if fukua is armor training in general. Without armor this matchup seems like totally bad for pw.

But why would you be without armor? Yeah it'd be bad without it, but out of the whole cast Fukua seems the most vulnerable to it.

I dunno, maybe I don't know what i'm talking about but in my experience + theory fighting IDK what Fukua is supposed to do in this matchup besides pray you make a mistake she can capitalize on. What are Fukua's options against a flying Painwheel?
 
i can answer that @RanagastDB

the matchup for PW is actually hilarious. if fukua plays keepaway PW can adapt...the funny thing is if a fukua actually zones in a specific area the matchup sucks for PW

both need to go in to do damage however your nails cannot beat her fireballs. what do you do? you fly. but wait Shadow M keeps you a bay. so you just wait out the shadows but here's her answer which is J hp and if she wanted to she can also fireball if any silly PW decided to try j hp armor and the better part of all of this is that she can also do double jump combos to keep you on the ground. and even then you would have to watch out for air throw set ups from fukua. so if fukua gets in. PW is done if fukua is in and only needs about 2-3 guesses(depending on how much meter) to be kill PW solo.

meanwhile PW needs atleast 3-4 guesses to kill fukua.

MEANWHILE take into account fireball super will cause Hard KND which can really hurt PW but that's just me.
 
Watch Fukua's pose when she throws the shadow, and its easy to react to
 
IsaVulpes said:
- MK.Shadow, H.Dart
- j.Anything xx ADart
- j.MP
all beat j.HP armor

MK.Shadow > H dart and j.Anything > dart are spacing specific and don't convert into anything, I think? and jMP would really only work pretty up close where PW has less of a reason to be charging armor instead of hitting with the tip of jMP or airthrow or jHK or something. These are helpful tools, granted, but I don't see them evening out the matchup very much.

IsaVulpes said:
PW is slow enough that spacing with c.HK/s.HK is very efficient

How so?
 
RanagastDB said:
MK.Shadow > H dart and j.Anything > dart are spacing specific and don't convert into anything, I think? and jMP would really only work pretty up close where PW has less of a reason to be charging armor instead of hitting with the tip of jMP or airthrow or jHK or something. These are helpful tools, granted, but I don't see them evening out the matchup very much.

Absolutely wrong. i've j lp into fireball and you can jump again since she has double jump to combo and to bring her back to ground which is PW's shittiest place she wants avoid. and sucks vs ground resets which fukua can very well do via shadows or cmd grabs. or even lk drill into a meaty grab

How so?
 
Dreamepitaph said:
Close range....you ain't blocking on reaction.

Actually, Shadows are completely reactable at close-range. All the poses to launch the shadow are different. Once you know them, they're slower than Para's b.HK (And b.HK is reactable). If you're relying on them for mixups (Without assist cover), you're going to find your offense getting blocked time and time again by good players.

Online is a different story, depending on how you buffer the move. GGPO hacks off the start of the animation if you do it from neutral, but if you hit a cancel window early on in an input buffer, it will seamlessly go into the move without rollback.

Also, Fukua's resets are no scarier than any other character. They're solid, and lead to good damage, but Painwheel can take a hard read and do just as much damage back to her if you don't have assist cover. If PW has a defensive assist of her own, she can be tough to lock down.

Also, also, Fukua is free to grab resets. I have a new setup that beats... so much... and forces Fukua to tech against a throw mixup or eat a hobillion damage. (Yay for PW having the highest damage throw combos in the game)
 
Krackatoa said:
Actually, Shadows are completely reactable at close-range. All the poses to launch the shadow are different. Once you know them, they're slower than Para's b.HK (And b.HK is reactable). If you're relying on them for mixups (Without assist cover), you're going to find your offense getting blocked time and time again by good players.

Online is a different story, depending on how you buffer the move. GGPO hacks off the start of the animation if you do it from neutral, but if you hit a cancel window early on in an input buffer, it will seamlessly go into the move without rollback.

Also, Fukua's resets are no scarier than any other character. They're solid, and lead to good damage, but Painwheel can take a hard read and do just as much damage back to her if you don't have assist cover. If PW has a defensive assist of her own, she can be tough to lock down.

Also, also, Fukua is free to grab resets. I have a new setup that beats... so much... and forces Fukua to tech against a throw mixup or eat a hobillion damage. (Yay for PW having the highest damage throw combos in the game)
however the shadows also allow a mixup since fukua can move after shadows... it isn't as simple as you think
 
Dreamepitaph said:
however the shadows also allow a mixup since fukua can move after shadows... it isn't as simple as you think

Shadow is a free pushblock. Your offense ends when shadow is blocked.
 
Krackatoa said:
Shadow is a free pushblock. Your offense ends when shadow is blocked.
what if i told you the shadow was actually a shadow(HINT HINT)? her shadow isn't that simple to understand. with fukua allowed to run around. nevertheless its simple but def is not solved just like that.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
what if i told you the shadow was actually a shadow(HINT HINT)? her shadow isn't that simple to understand. with fukua allowed to run around. nevertheless its simple but def is not solved just like that.
The startup on shadow means I get a guaranteed pushblock if I block it. This forces you away, and any character recovers fast enough out of pushblock to be considered "at neutral" due to the amount of space you have to cover to get back inside. You are not in an advantageous situation if you don't have assist cover to cover your shadow. This isn't something up for debate.
 
It sounds lose/lose to me. She has a strong neutral (stronger than a lot) meaning that pushblock is at least partially advantages. A pushblock on a good zoner (like Fukua or Peacock) is no real punishment, and not blocking it is negative (right?).
 
Spencer said:
It sounds lose/lose to me. She has a strong neutral (stronger than a lot) meaning that pushblock is at least partially advantages. A pushblock on a good zoner (like Fukua or Peacock) is no real punishment, and not blocking it is negative (right?).

I don't understand your words. I'm sorry. How is forcing Fukua back to neutral after she's in your face with advantage a bad thing? How is that possibly ever worse than sitting there eating mixups?
 
Krackatoa said:
The startup on shadow means I get a guaranteed pushblock if I block it. This forces you away, and any character recovers fast enough out of pushblock to be considered "at neutral" due to the amount of space you have to cover to get back inside. You are not in an advantageous situation if you don't have assist cover to cover your shadow. This isn't something up for debate.
welp you didn't get teh hint tho! Oh well. I'll just tell that's not what i was debating about. but yes your statement about pushblock is obviously correct.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
welp you didn't get teh hint tho! Oh well. I'll just tell that's not what i was debating about. but yes your statement about pushblock is obviously correct.

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. If you're saying that the threat of shadow keeps me on the ground so you can walk up and command grab, that's... also entirely wrong.
 
bubbaking said:
The threat of shadow shouldn't keep you on the ground because up+back still blocks everything other than the dedicated jump in > airgrab, right?

Well, we were more talking about hypothetical point-blank Shadows. Shadows will catch Up+Back if they connect during the first 4 frames of your jump animation (Prejump), since they don't trigger proximity block. Blocking shadows super-low to the ground also slash their blockstun by a huge margin.

In other news: End any combo in L.Stinger > Fly, then Call Cilia Slide and whiff 3j.MK. Throw immediately upon landing to set up perfect meaty Throw timing followed by Cilia Slide which hits in frames 3-4 of prejump. Fukua can't do much about the setup but throw tech.
 
bubbaking said:
I have a question about these elaborate set-ups. Can't one good reversal (like a super) just destroy all of that and lead to a full combo?

Well, that's the thing about Fukua. Almost all of her options are Throw Vulnerable, this goes for most of her supers. You can also do this setup with other assists, like invuln assists, to get the same effect (And make them completely super-proof)
 
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Well....would you look at that... I feel rather silly now. I've had SG since day 1 of the initial release, and I just found out that Fukua is hidden under Big Band. Until now, I'd thought that she was only released on the PC and that I was just running into PC owners who were using her. (>.<) Guess it's time to learn her first-hand...

Edit: Oh, I can just do j.HK > j.HP three times for an auto 5k at the beginning of a combo... That's funny...
 
bubbaking said:
Well....would you look at that... I feel rather silly now. I've had SG since day 1 of the initial release, and I just found out that Fukua is hidden under Big Band. Until now, I'd thought that she was only released on the PC and that I was just running into PC owners who were using her. (>.<) Guess it's time to learn her first-hand...

Edit: Oh, I can just do j.HK > j.HP three times for an auto 5k at the beginning of a combo... That's funny...

She was released April 1st.
 
To bring it back to Fukua... any help would be appreciated.

Some of it is definitely a lack of MU experience (@Dreamepitaph would you like to get a set in)?

Some of it is I just don't know what to do at any range. I'm fairly safe at long range, but I'm also completely useless. No PW in her right mind wants to be close range, and j.mp range (medium range) puts you in mp.shadow range and charge through mp.shadow is definitely risky.

Her mixup game seems pretty scary, though like I said... that is in large part just a lack of experience. I don't even know when to start looking for a mixup.
 
Dreamepitaph said:
i can play now.

Edit:i will be lagging since i'm at my friends.

I can't actually. I've got work early as shit and am going to be right now.
 
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