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Possible new IPS

I'm concerned how this would affect Double. You see barrel loops so often because she has very few other options available to her to extend a combo after ABC Launch.
 
Ghodere said:
I'm concerned how this would affect Double. You see barrel loops so often because she has very few other options available to her to extend a combo after ABC Launch.
Or because everyone is a lazy fuck? You can do one barrel, one Gunshot, one j.HP rejump .. oh wait, you can't - because you can only launch twice anyways, so it really doesn't matter.
 
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Chris G had to relearn the game yesterday while playing and look at how well he did. (I'm still screaming, by the way)
But yeah, I'm definitely willing to try this new IPS out. I've always personally been more afraid of opponents who have good resets as opposed to those who just use one or two optimized combos and don't know how to create a setup out of it to keep pressure on you. If it encourages people to go for more resets and shows them the importance of baiting out reversals and the like then I'm all for testing it out. My only hope is that it doesn't limit combo creativity too much (not that the current loops are all that creative), but we'll have to see how that goes.
 
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DARKNESSxEAGLE said:
I can't see the benefit of ignoring chain starters, people can just replace what would be the end of their usual launcher with their Updo or Napalm Pillar assist and their combo is extended that extra bit (yet another disadvantage for players going solo, wooo...).
This is equivalent in the current IPS to doing a chain, calling your assist, and then continuing with some attack that normally wouldn't link from the end of your previous chain...which you would never be able to use to start a chain anyway, but your next character might have used. So...no real change in either the solo/team dynamic or the getting-around-a-restriction bit?

Also, in that case it would count as linking off your whatever-normal-you-called-the-assist-after. (s.LP->s.MP + assist, s.LP = linking s.MP to s.LP from your character's perspective.)
 
I'm kind of worried about Ms. fortune's head being ignored by this system, but I might just be worrying too much. As it is the only Valentine combo I really use remains untouched (well, the corner version needs to replace one of my s.HPs with s.HKHKHK or maybe HKHK).
 
As dumb as it may sound, i really think people should check this out ON BETA before making apocalyptic theories and dropping their loved combos in their minds...

While you can think of many combos and scenarios where the change could be beneficial or detrimental, There's too many variables to reason and give a 100% accurate view of that matter. Even Mike Z may find some unexpected effects with changes like that AND HE MADE THE F***ING SYSTEM IN FIRST PLACE!

And a small tip trying (and ultimately failing) to prevent some extreme comments: I know by now we're surprised with the new idea, we're excited (or scared) with the change, we're putting ideas and opinions on the table, and that's good. But don't say right now things like "the new system is good" or "the new system is bad" or even more definitive things like "mike you've ruined the game, i'm dropping skullgirls for life!". WAIT UNTIL IT IS TESTED, WAIT UNTIL WE HAVE SOLID, REAL INFO TO DISCUSS!

Worst case scenario: it goes into beta, people hate it, explain why they hate it and the idea is discarded for now! Lab Zero always listened to their players/consumers/fans. Nothing is really lost!


On a different note. Guys, just think how blessed we are to make part in beta testing an idea that could potentially change a huge part of the game flow! Little-to-no other developers (and i think no other fighting game developer AT ALL) was so open and honest about what they were doing (double helix is kinda close on that matter). I do hope that in 5 or 10 years this becomes the norm.

Thank you kindly for reading.
 
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Mike_Z said:
Yes, it'll get tried in the Beta. This stuff is the reason we have a Beta. It will NOT be on console in the upcoming update. Though of course if it sticks, it will be in a future update.
If the console patch is not getting this in the upcoming update and this new IPS change decides to stay for PC, please find a way to update it fairly quickly for console. I know it is not lab zero's fault the patch is taking a while but I don't want to finally get MDE on console just to realize all the combos I am learning are obsolete because of the new IPS change.
 
So Mike. did you ever find out why projectiles weren't working with it or is that still somewhat of an issue here?
 
I can't accurately give my judgement on this new IPS yet until I actually try it on the Big Band Beta for a few days.

Sounds great on paper (Sorry to some people that have to relearn optimized combos) to make the game less like a one sided piano recital, but it can potentially bring out some new unforseen issues though.

Edit: On a side note, love how this game has an active Beta where experiments such as this can happen at ease completely independent from the main game. Not all fighters have this luxury. We have to remember experiments for change doesn't automatically mean the apocalypse is upon us.
 
When's Skullgirls said:
So Mike. did you ever find out why projectiles weren't working with it or is that still somewhat of an issue here?
Nah that's all fixed, I missed a spot to tell it "don't do that".

Also uh. With some preliminary testing not only do you not need to worry about damage, but that person who said "have both types" might be right. Or undizzy. You'll see.
 
So when will the beta patch with SPI be added? And yes for ease of use I will be sticking to calling it SPI, but if we end up combining both I am tempted to call it IPSPI. The infinite protection system for the protection from infinites.
 
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Personally Im not a fan of shortening combos and making this game more focused on resets. A game where you have to do 3-5 resets to kill and every character has a 0 frame reversal doesn't click with me. To be honest having to reset someone in this game is not very fun when I have to bait a reversal that's sometimes even safe. If a change like this happened and I had to reset to win it would be nice if my opponent had to block my resets instead of just mashing their get out of jail "free" card. Whatever its not a big deal, nothing is final until I sit down and play the game so if I don't like it I'll just play differently or stop playing all together. (Its all for fun anyway)
 
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Mike_Z said:
With some preliminary testing not only do you not need to worry about damage, but that person who said "have both types" might be right.

E X C E L L E N T
 
IsaVulpes said:
There are zero characters in this game with a 0f reversal

Think Filia LP Updo is the quickest traditional reversal at 8 frame, but I think he was talking about mashed supers acting as pseudo reversals.
 
Number 13 said:
Think Filia LP Updo is the quickest traditional reversal at 8 frame, but I think he was talking about mashed supers acting as pseudo reversals.
Those are ~4f, the fastest being 3f Fenrir
There is no 0f Reversal in this game (or any game, I hope).
 
This sounds interesting. I'm looking forward to fleshing it out in training mode, but my gut says it will lengthen combos.

If it only counts the last move in your chain then in order to optimize you want to include as many hits as possible per chain (excluding a nicely scaling opener I guess).
 
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Hard to really "get" what all this is until I get my hands on it.

I've never been GREAT at the game but I just really really wanna try it out because experimentation is neat.
 
Wow, I'm kind of glad I've been putting off this game for a while. Can't wait to try SG2 #Kappa
 
IsaVulpes said:
Those are ~4f, the fastest being 3f Fenrir
There is no 0f Reversal in this game (or any game, I hope).

In Melee (and probably other versions of Smash bros) Fox's down B (The reflector/shine) is 0f startup 1f active, and it's jump cancelable on whiff/block/hit after like 3-4f.

The 1f active is fully invulnerable.
 
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worldjem said:
In Melee (and probably other versions of Smash bros) Fox's down B (The reflector/shine) is 0f startup 1f active, and it's jump cancelable on whiff/block/hit after like 3-4f.

The 1f active is fully invulnerable.
"why smash is not respected"
 
I look forward to testing out this new IPS. It should be interesting.
 
Perspective from a new SG player.

1. Loops are dumb, always have been. This goes for any game.
2. There are a lot of players who are real bad at everything besides long looping combos when they do get a hit. Maybe they will learn other aspects of the game.
3. This isn't a final change, this is an experiment that will be in beta testing. Try it out before u start thinking the world is ending. Don't fear change.
4. If this means shorter combos where people have to go for more resets new players will not be scared off, but rather be more attracted to the game. What do u think the typical noob thinks when they start playing and get comboed/looped to death after one hit? If there are more resets necessary, then there are more opportunities for the player to escape the combo.
5. Combos are only one part of a fighting game. Hopefully this promotes more creative combos as well as requiring more resets and less of a TOD feeling.
 
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Mike_Z said:
It's very interesting hearing all the negativity, like I said, I would expect more people would be happy it's getting run by everyone instead of just put in and Deal With It.
I'm begging you mike, please make the combos shorter
this game needs shorter combos like SF4 needs less vortex game
 
... After some somewhat more clearheaded thinking. I do like the prospect of a new ips... If only because I don't like undizzy decay. With undizzy out, resets will be better than the crappy versions we are currently using.

Having said that I agree with @winnie about the mashable reversals and making resets more pronounced. not only that but there is the very real problem of offline sg in this ips being even more different than online sg is currently from its counterpart. Sitting head to head will make the game very different from playing online, in a game where hearing your opponents button presses, matters, alot.


Having said that... I do like loop combos. I've always liked loop combos. I think they are cool to look at and do. I understand that some/most people don't like them but personally I've only disliked loop combos when the loop goes past 4 repetitions or so. I don't think there is a problem with triple, double or single loops, but I guess I'm in the minority as usual.

Also.. I don't think it takes more skill to do "different combos" it just takes more muscle memory which means more time in training mode doing boring stuff like learning combos rather than time in training mode doing fun stuff like finding new setups and synergies. Also, I don't mean to burst any peoples bubbles... But shorter combos does not mean easier combos.

I only state that because I think there are some people out there that think short equals easy which is the true reason why they want shorter combos (not all just some)

But anywho whatever, it's gotta be better than undizzy decay.
 
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Dime_x said:
Also.. I don't think it takes more skill to do "different combos" it just takes more muscle memory which means more time in training mode
so people will have to learn more than one combo? damn we might lose like half the player base if that goes through
 
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You know it's weird that people say more resets will make the game more friendly to new comers, but I hear new players complaining about the resets all the time too.

EDIT: Though now that I think of it, the most common complaint I see about this game is that it isn't street fighter, so I guess we should just disregard those people.
 
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CaioLugon said:
That would be a bitch.

Maybe it's just that I'm not used to it, but sounds pretty counterintuitive(if this is a word in english).

Skullgirls is a combo based game, I would appreciate if it stayed that way.
I dont like this at all....removing undizzy i think is fine, but honestly...enders? Really. Hell...valentine would fall apart simply put. I mean people complaining about long combos? Really...REALLY? You've seen marvel & Blazblue right? I'm sorry if i sound ignorant or otherwise, I sincerely apologize, but gimme a break.

And just when people are getting into the game making combos, etc...everything will have to change....AGAIN. who knows, maybe I'm not understanding correctly, but I think it's ridiculous. Long combos...right.

destruction_adv said:
You know it's weird that people say more resets will make the game more friendly to new comers, but I hear new players complaining about the resets all the time too.

new players complain about a number of things half because they just aren't used to things and the other half because they dont like losing...but unfortunately must get used to it. But honestly if people just depend on resets, it'll just fall on who has better resets and who knows the most. That's another issue in itself :P I mean I love resets for sure, but as the game is now people complain enough about resets :P

---- ---- ---- ----
THE CONCLUSION
---- ---- ---- ----
Perhaps this is partial kneejerk, but after thinking about it more I still strongly feel the same way

Mike...I like the enthusiasm (or whoever thought of it) & you know like apparently everyone thinks you're God & you're super cool, but dude.....give us some time to breathe for a second. Please. My dad likes to constantly experiment with food and when i say i like something or express interest...he just always does something to mess it up. I feel like that right now. Don't take it the wrong way ok, respectfully speaking.

Just saying that this is a game for fighting gamers by fighting gamers like you and lab zero. People who are beginning/complaining are gonna have to learn the ropes and just buck up. I hate to be mean, but losing, like I mentioned in my silly vid is part of it. There is no easy button. The game is fair...and most importantly it's fun still. Trying to appeal to the vocal minority who often move on or otherwise won't help the people who've really stuck with the game (I'm not speaking for everyone of course...just assuming).

And another thing...I saw the example combos...I'm at a loss for words. I'm not in the mood for matches that take the entire alotted time -_-'' I could go on...but it's what it is...this game is based on combos, and the swag you can pull off with them. Don't make that go bye bye.

Oh and also, Squigly would fall apart...and die. Again. And the 3 people playing her would sink into the shadows...ok maybe not, but come on...squigly?? :( Forgive me for blaspheming, but people complained about blazblue's constant iterations...combo changes..etc? This would basically be the same thing.

I can't help but think....how random this is...wait...please don't tell me it's not cuz of that fight w/you and wingzero....>_> like im half serious. Now im paranoid to play cuz things may change any minute -_-
 
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Nuuance said:
it'll just fall on who has better resets and who knows the most.
yeah because defending yourself against resets is impossible right
 
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Nuuance said:
Hell...valentine would fall apart simply put.
I'm just going to leave this here

Nuuance said:
I mean people complaining about long combos? Really...REALLY? You've seen marvel right?
I have seen Marvel, yes.
Storm vs Storm, 100% life gone in 4 touches, 3 of which don't go beyond 5 hits.

In SG terms, 4 touches = ~3.5k in 1v1, or ~4k in 3v3, that's ABCLaunch>Airstring.

Nuuance said:
People who are beginning/complaining are gonna have to learn the ropes and just buck up. I hate to be mean, but losing, like I mentioned in my silly vid is part of it. There is no easy button. The game is fair...
Actually there is an easy button, it's learning an 8k damage combo in 30 minutes training mode and killing characters of people far better than you with random stray hits into combo reset death.

(I'm not speaking for everyone of course...just assuming).
Maybe you should stop assuming.

And another thing...I saw the example combos...I'm at a loss for words. I'm not in the mood for matches that take the entire alotted time -_-''
This is plain hilarious

Oh and also, Squigly would fall apart...and die. Again. And the 3 people playing her would sink into the shadows...(ok maybe not, but come on...squigly?? :( )
http://skullgirls.com/forums/index.php?threads/possible-new-ips.716/page-2#post-19924 GOOD TO KNOW
 
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Couldn't have said it any better^
 
Valentine won't be destroyed, the Pulsr combo will. There is a difference.

It really is a good thing I'm not a mod because I would just lock this thread until the beta patch was out, people are making heavy claims that they can't know without testing it. Why?
 
Dime_x said:
.Also, I don't mean to burst any peoples bubbles... But shorter combos does not mean easier combos.

I only state that because I think there are some people out there that think short equals easy which is the true reason why they want shorter combos (not all just some)

Amen.
 
Mike_Z said:
It's very interesting hearing all the negativity, like I said, I would expect more people would be happy it's getting run by everyone instead of just put in and Deal With It.

I don't think anyone is against trying it (I hope), its more about the initial shock of "nothing I'm doing right now will work anymore".
 
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