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Quality of Life Changes Suggestion Thread

Lex

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Ms. Fortune Valentine Double
Edit: Ideas for features/modes/anything outside of SG's combat goes in the feature suggestion thread: https://skullheart.com/threads/feature-suggestions.11590/

So I thought it might be worth making a thread where we compile various Quality of Life suggestions for every character. Before I go any further, I should probably give a definition of what a QoL change is to avoid confusion/make sure we're all on the same page. Here's my definition (if people have ideas for a better worded definition lmk):

A QoL change is one that makes something more consistent/easier while having a minimal impact on overall balance or the tool's strength in general.
Some examples of QoL changes would be:
- Adding lenient button dashing
- Modifying Fortune's L Fiber hitboxes so that sHP L Fiber combos point blank vs everyone
- Filia/Fukua snap hurtboxes being adjusted so that they consistently hit OTG

Hopefully with the above definition of what a QoL change is we can stick to rather uncontroversial suggestions and avoid the problem of just suggesting buffs while calling them QoL lol.
 
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Sorry for the double post, I just wanted the subject post to stand on its own.
So here are my suggestions for QoL changes for the characters I main (Fortune, Val and Double):

- Slightly extend the range of Rekka so that sHP Rekka combos at sHP max range
- If there isn't one already, a buffer for dash after Feral Edge would make it easier to convert consistently
- There's a range where grounded head toss will hit twice but won't stagger
- Add a buffer after Rekka x3. Rekka x3 OTG sLP is really common in corner routing but it often feels really tight, especially vs heavy/mid-weight characters

- Headless CSF is punishable on hit if the first few hits kill or you hit a dead body and she's hitting her head (incoming character comes in and punishes). Would be nice if Fortune got the Bella Dynamo treatment to avoid this (where the opponent's incoming is delayed slightly if the first few hits of Dynamo kill to avoid Bella being punishable). EDIT: This also happens with Feral Edge if the early hits kill and you're hitting the head.
- In the right side corner; sHK M Rekka Headbutt sHK H Fiber sometimes doesn't hit the head unless you walk forward on the sHK vs Beo but in the left corner it always works vs him, even without the walk forward. I think this is due to some weird collision stuff where Beo and Fortune's collision boxes appear to overlap in the left corner. I'll try and get an image for this later.
- IAD jLK jMP will whiff on the jMP Vs short crouchers. Maybe fix by extending jLK's hitbox close to Fortune's centre down very slightly so that it hits earlier in the active frames? Idk
- Nom will fly in different directions in the midscreen optimal route depending on which direction you're facing and your Nom timing. I know Liam is already aware of this but thought I should include it anyway for completion's sake. Suggested change would be to make the head always fly behind Fortune (which is what it does in most situations).
- Rekka, Zoom doesn't work on Double in the corner and midscreen it's inconsistent/strangely difficult
- OTG Gato (decap attack) link into button doesn't work Vs Double in the corner since the decap attack doesn't restand her like it does vs everyone else (aside from Band since he's to wide for Gato to hit the head here).
- Headbutt and Zoom assists lock you in place when AC'd into until they've finished startup (could be a headless alternative to dash assist if it weren't for this). You can't even block during them which seems weird/unnecessary if it's intentional.
- Comboing after CSF without OTG when the head is behind you is extremely character specific (this one isn't too big a deal since you can reroute to avoid it at the cost of some damage). If a change was to be made to make it more consistent then different launch angles off CSF might be worth considering? Idk, it's not a big deal and changing it does run the risk of making other situations more inconsistent/harder so it's probably fine as is. Just thought I'd mention it.
- M Gato loops (sHK […] jMK M Gato Zoom) are very inconsistent and character dependent timing wise: This isn’t strictly necessary (can always just say "git gud and learn the timings") but it would make the character a lot more consistent and much easier to learn given this is essentially her standard/beginner midscreen bnb. I think this is one of the biggest things that stops people from going from head-on to headless (since it's obviously not character strength). It would have to be done in a way that would have as little an effect as possible on the rest of the game as well so I’m not sure how that could be done. Maybe increase Zoom’s trailing hitbox (add a hitbox to a bit of the blood spray)?

- Please add the air H Bypass fix back in. It fixed Val's biggest QoL issue and felt really good. H Bypass whiffing often leaves you in a situation where you are HCH punishable (or at least easily jab punishable) so you often just die if it doesn't spawn the hitbox. I don't think it should lead to any new routes that give better damage than her current optimal stuff and even if it did, the increase would likely be minimal.
- Delay when Val changes the direction she’s facing till the end of the super/DHC cancellable portion of ground H Bypass and blocked/whiffed EKG: I’ve gotten EKG simply failing to come out and Scalpels where I wanted lvl 3 quite a lot due to Val changing the direction she’s facing during H Bypass. Similar for blocked/whiffed EKG into safe DHC, often I get the wrong DHC or it just doesn't come out cus Val turns around so quickly. Dunno if it happens to other people but seems like a simple QoL change.
- Increase ground H Bypass’ range very slightly: Ending ground string into sHKx3 H Bypass sometimes whiffs when done midscreen vs certain light characters. Increasing the range slightly would fix this and shouldn’t have much of a balance impact since it’s never used while point outside of combos and the assist already reaches fullscreen. This can be seen by doing the standard midscreen combo starting with your back to the corner vs Fortune (remove the dash before sLP).
- There are a couple of strange counter situations. One is that if you counter the opponent on the same frame that they hit your assist then the counter comes out but the opponent isn't frozen, forcing you to block and hitting your assist.
- Would be nice if countervenom placed the opponent in a standard position. You don't get much time to judge if the opponent is in a position where you can crHP after CV a jump-in which makes converting weird sometimes.
- Could Acquisitive Prescription (counter w/o vial loaded) please revert Sekhmet back to Eliza if you hit her out of the counter freeze state? The same way it gets rid of armour and brings Double back when you counter Car. Otherwise you're forced to use OTG immediately on a sweep punish (used to be you had to throw/snap Sekhmet).
- H Bypass crHP TK L Bypass AD jHP sometimes crosses up on Parasoul in the corner (this is likely more to do with Para hurtboxes than Val I'd guess).
- This probably counts as more a bugfix than QoL but this should maybe be removed (do a throw/hitgrab during counter's startup and scaling is at a higher value leading to massive damage). These same properties apply to Annie's taunt counter so I guess this is intentional? It seems weird/unnecessary to me but if it is intentional then that's ok, I don't think it's a huge deal either way.
- Extend DHC window on ground scalpels. This window feels overly small, I've resorted to basically mashing my DHC input now because I don't trust the window.
- Extend the hitbox of crMK(2) slightly so that the second hit no longer whiffs when done at max range.
- Could the hitstun of jHK(1) be extended slightly so that L and M Bypass combo off it? In some combos, vs certain characters, the first hit of jHK can connect when you weren't expecting it to (eg crHP jHP H Bypass delay jHK M Bypass usually only has 1 hit of jHK but vs Band and a couple others both hits can happen) so having a bypass that will always convert off of either hit would be nice. jHK(1) H Bypass should still uncombo for the easy double snap though.
- Could the hitbox on the 2nd hit of jMK be extended upwards slightly close to Val's body (not at the edge of the move, just towards Val's centre)? Sometimes the 2nd hit of jMK will whiff if the first hit makes contact high up.
- I'm not super fond of this idea but if people want to fix the "Val is blind" problem of crHP whiffing through opponents then the collision box could be extended upwards during its startup. This would remove a couple kinda gimmicky resets but it'd probably resolve the issue (those said people could also just learn to put a button like sLK or sMK in front of crHP instead but eh).

- Make it easier to DHC towards the end of Car super (especially on whiff). I've missed so many Scalpels DHCs after Car and while I should also get better, it'd be nice if the window was just a bit more generous.
- The 2nd hit of sMKx2 sometimes whiffs through opponents when you hit them in the air w/the first hit. Would be nice if something could be done to stop this from happening or make it happen less (though I imagine this would probably ruin someone's favourite jank reset lol).
- I don't think this is a particularly big deal since it's easily avoidable/rarely comes up but Double is - after Car in the corner if she's already used OTG (if the car knocks the opponent back into the corner). How - depends on the character (eg vs Band she's very punishable but vs PW she's slightly +) but changing this so that Double isn't punishable/- on hit might be worth considering. Not a big deal tho since it is easy to avoid if you know about it.

I'll try and record a video with examples for some of the things I've mentioned here later, along with add details for the stuff that is character specific.
 
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Valentine: Make it a little easier to DHC the final hit of EKG while keeping the same side. Maybe add a frame or two of hitstop or just keep her on the same side longer?

Robo-Fortune: Extend Cannon's DHC window a few more frames after the final hit.
 
Supers that can cross up, hit, and be insanely minus like feral edge or air drill of my dreams to NOT do that. They should just combo like all air supers do in crossup. If the super hits it should just work.

Whatever this bug is

Also extend the range Buer Overdrive goes since it doesn't work fullscreen with some supers likely because of how they knockdown, I'd ask that it just keep going until it hits something but I like that it can also work as a very expensive escape option.
 
For whenever they put in resource indicators & extra meters to Ui, something for filia’s ability to dash-cancel out of hairball would be cool possibly unless it’s something people feel they never lose track of it. tho small, it is a special mechanic to her being able to dash-cancel a special
 
Make annie’s beam super vacuum them slightly lower so she doesnt get only like 5 hits of it in certain scenarios
 
I'm not gonna ask again for something half the Valentine players would want, but half would hate.
I'm talking about her special moves priorities, that currently is K>P when airborne and P>K when grounded.

Just wanna sum up my opinion on it before giving the idea I have to try and make everyone happy:
priority should always be K>P, not only is that way better (just like Painwheel has K>P, cuz idk why you would want the projectile instead of your most damaging combo tool) but you can sometimes get bypass anyway if you are used to doing assist macro for dead cross.

Considering people wouldn't want to change grounded priority, could we at least give priority to H bypass? Most Val players are probably never using HK when doing Dead Cross + Assist, and the assist macro doesn't use HK. So, if it somehow could give top priority to HK it would at least give her best confirm at the price of nothing(?). So at the end her grounded priority would look something like this HK>P>K.

Edit: best confirm with assist and depending on the assist ofc.
 
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I have no idea how much discussion went on with Fortune during Encore over the new ways to push around the head with normals, but it'd be interesting to explore some new ways to move around the head with lesser-used normals like 2MK.
 
Not sure if this should go here, didn't see a place for feature suggestions.

If a dummy is set to block After First Hit, they should continue blocking after a burst until they touch the ground. Currently, dummies don't bother blocking after they burst.

There's some training mode oddities with attempting to perform things As Reversal (like upback) that would be nice to see addressed.
 
Not sure if this should go here, didn't see a place for feature suggestions.

If a dummy is set to block After First Hit, they should continue blocking after a burst until they touch the ground. Currently, dummies don't bother blocking after they burst.

There's some training mode oddities with attempting to perform things As Reversal (like upback) that would be nice to see addressed.
There's a feature suggestion thread in Gameplay General (https://skullheart.com/threads/feature-suggestions.11590/) though I understand missing it cus you'd think it'd be in beta discussion lol.

I'm not gonna ask again for something half the Valentine players would want, but half would hate.
I'm talking about her special moves priorities, that currently is K>P when airborne and P>K when grounded.

Just wanna sum up my opinion on it before giving the idea I have to try and make everyone happy:
priority should always be K>P, not only is that way better (just like Painwheel has K>P, cuz idk why you would want the projectile instead of your most damaging combo tool) but you can sometimes get bypass anyway if you are used to doing assist macro for dead cross.

Considering people wouldn't want to change grounded priority, could we at least give priority to H bypass? Most Val players are probably never using HK when doing Dead Cross + Assist, and the assist macro doesn't use HK. So, if it somehow could give top priority to HK it would at least give her best confirm at the price of nothing(?). So at the end her grounded priority would look something like this HK>P>K.

Edit: best confirm with assist and depending on the assist ofc.
I didn't mention this in my original list of QoL suggestions since I wanted to at least start off w/non-controversial suggestions but since P vs K priority for Val has been brought up I'll add that I'd really like Val's air priority to be reverted to P > K. Was originally swapped to K > P because some Val/H Beam players wanted it for the occasional H Bypass to crossup + H Beam in neutral but I think air Dead Cross + assist is a much more widely useful neutral tool that is hard to use right now due to the K priority (and air Bypass + assist rarely comes up in general).

I've spoken about this at length in the beta discussion on discord but it should absolutely remain P>K on the ground as Dead Cross + assist is an important neutral, confirm and blockstring tool while Bypass+assist is almost exclusively a combo tool and it's not that hard to input assist~bypass in most combos + you can always sacrifice a bit of damage to make it easier w/M or L Bypass anyway. Plus it's much harder to do difficult inputs in neutral than it is in combos due to the added pressure+bigger risk if you misinput.

I don't have a problem with HK>P>K priority on the ground though since you'll rarely if ever use HK when doing Dead Cross+assist as you said. In the air I think there are situations where it could come up but ground is the big thing here for proponents of K>P to my knowledge. It would be adding another exception to the game since, to my knowledge, no character has anything like this but *shrug*.
 
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It would be cool if DHC'ing of Puddle was a little bit easier.
Missed so many combos on that just because the DHC of puddle wouldn't come out.
 
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it being so hard to DHC out of robo beam super on final hit wouldn't be as annoying if there wasn't a chance for assists to get locked out if you DHC'd on the wrong frame at any point before final hit

really feels like a 50/50 on if beam counts as hitting post DHC and you get locked out of assists, It would be nice if that could get fixed if full robo beam super>DHC isn't going to get easier as a design decision
 
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I know this thread is intended for char-specific QoL, but...

I've had a high enough percentage of games vs wifi players just go all wrong, even when they start off just fine with low jitter. So for the last year or so of playing this game on and off, I've had a pretty strict no-wifi policy when it comes to QM.

The thing is, sometimes, I find myself wanting to play some quick matches at odd hours when there aren't a ton of people online. So I sit in the queue for 10, 15 minutes, then someone joins... and they're on wifi with 50, wait, 250, wait, 20, wait, 300 ping. Or it's good ping and low jitter. Or it's some mix.

So I back out and queue up again. Then another new player joins, almost immediately. Same deal. Quit. Remake. Rejoin. Quit.

And the cycle continues until one of us decides we aren't gonna play QM that night, or a third person shows up and matches with one of us. And it sucks.

What would suck a lot less would be if I could toggle some option on the QM screen that indicates that I don't have any interest in playing vs wifi. That way, that one other wifi player wouldn't have me in their way, and I wouldn't have them in mine, and we both would get to play matches that we have a higher chance of enjoying.

I get an approximation of the feature I want by manually backing out... but it just makes me not wanna play anymore, by the 10th or 15th time I match against the same player I'm not interested in.

Edit: Ended up talking to a dev about it in discord immediately after posting this. Apparently, a tweak to qm to disable matching against recently-rejected players is coming soon, which pretty much solves the problem I had. Ignore me
 
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I know this thread is intended for char-specific QoL, but...

I've had a high enough percentage of games vs wifi players just go all wrong, even when they start off just fine with low jitter. So for the last year or so of playing this game on and off, I've had a pretty strict no-wifi policy when it comes to QM.

The thing is, sometimes, I find myself wanting to play some quick matches at odd hours when there aren't a ton of people online. So I sit in the queue for 10, 15 minutes, then someone joins... and they're on wifi with 50, wait, 250, wait, 20, wait, 300 ping. Or it's good ping and low jitter. Or it's some mix.

So I back out and queue up again. Then another new player joins, almost immediately. Same deal. Quit. Remake. Rejoin. Quit.

And the cycle continues until one of us decides we aren't gonna play QM that night, or a third person shows up and matches with one of us. And it sucks.

What would suck a lot less would be if I could toggle some option on the QM screen that indicates that I don't have any interest in playing vs wifi. That way, that one other wifi player wouldn't have me in their way, and I wouldn't have them in mine, and we both would get to play matches that we have a higher chance of enjoying.

I get an approximation of the feature I want by manually backing out... but it just makes me not wanna play anymore, by the 10th or 15th time I match against the same player I'm not interested in.

Edit: Ended up talking to a dev about it in discord immediately after posting this. Apparently, a tweak to qm to disable matching against recently-rejected players is coming soon, which pretty much solves the problem I had. Ignore me
There’s a features thread as well for things like this for additional feedback https://skullheart.com/threads/feature-suggestions.11590/ & yeah it’s been brought up a number of times on discord. Idk why the features channel wasn’t just set to read-only over disappearing it for search purposes…but anyways, most ‘obvious’ stuff seems to have been said at some point
 
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Would really love some more dhc frames (hitstop frames?) on fenrir ground hit so doing dhc into, for example, bella lvl3 or para bikes wouldn't drop out randomly if you do it prior the hit, or you risk missing the window entirely.
 
Sorry for the double post, I just wanted the subject post to stand on its own.
So here are my suggestions for QoL changes for the characters I main (Fortune, Val and Double):

- Slightly extend the range of Rekka so that sHP Rekka combos at sHP max range
- If there isn't one already, a buffer for dash after Feral Edge would make it easier to convert consistently
- There's a range where grounded head toss will hit twice but won't stagger
- Add a buffer after Rekka x3. Rekka x3 OTG sLP is really common in corner routing but it often feels really tight, especially vs heavy/mid-weight characters

- Headless CSF is punishable on hit if the first few hits kill or you hit a dead body and she's hitting her head (incoming character comes in and punishes). Would be nice if Fortune got the Bella Dynamo treatment to avoid this (where the opponent's incoming is delayed slightly if the first few hits of Dynamo kill to avoid Bella being punishable).
- In the right side corner; sHK M Rekka Headbutt sHK H Fiber sometimes doesn't hit the head unless you walk forward on the sHK vs Beo but in the left corner it always works vs him, even without the walk forward. I think this is due to some weird collision stuff where Beo and Fortune's collision boxes appear to overlap in the left corner. I'll try and get an image for this later.
- IAD jLK jMP will whiff on the jMP Vs short crouchers. Maybe fix by extending jLK's hitbox close to Fortune's centre down very slightly so that it hits earlier in the active frames? Idk
- Nom will fly in different directions in the midscreen optimal route depending on which direction you're facing and your Nom timing. I know Liam is already aware of this but thought I should include it anyway for completion's sake. Suggested change would be to make the head always fly behind Fortune (which is what it does in most situations).
- Rekka, Zoom doesn't work on Double in the corner and midscreen it's inconsistent/strangely difficult
- OTG Gato (decap attack) link into button doesn't work Vs Double in the corner since the decap attack doesn't restand her like it does vs everyone else (aside from Band since he's to wide for Gato to hit the head here).
- Headbutt and Zoom assists lock you in place when AC'd into until they've finished startup (could be a headless alternative to dash assist if it weren't for this). You can't even block during them which seems weird/unnecessary if it's intentional.
- Comboing after CSF without OTG when the head is behind you is extremely character specific (this one isn't too big a deal since you can reroute to avoid it at the cost of some damage). If a change was to be made to make it more consistent then different launch angles off CSF might be worth considering? Idk, it's not a big deal and changing it does run the risk of making other situations more inconsistent/harder so it's probably fine as is. Just thought I'd mention it.
- M Gato loops (sHK […] jMK M Gato Zoom) are very inconsistent and character dependent timing wise: This isn’t strictly necessary (can always just say "git gud and learn the timings") but it would make the character a lot more consistent and much easier to learn given this is essentially her standard/beginner midscreen bnb. I think this is one of the biggest things that stops people from going from head-on to headless (since it's obviously not character strength). It would have to be done in a way that would have as little an effect as possible on the rest of the game as well so I’m not sure how that could be done. Maybe increase Zoom’s trailing hitbox (add a hitbox to a bit of the blood spray)?

- Please add the air H Bypass fix back in. It fixed Val's biggest QoL issue and felt really good. H Bypass whiffing often leaves you in a situation where you are HCH punishable (or at least easily jab punishable) so you often just die if it doesn't spawn the hitbox. I don't think it should lead to any new routes that give better damage than her current optimal stuff and even if it did, the increase would likely be minimal.
- Delay when Val changes the direction she’s facing till the end of the super/DHC cancellable portion of ground H Bypass and blocked/whiffed EKG: I’ve gotten EKG simply failing to come out and Scalpels where I wanted lvl 3 quite a lot due to Val changing the direction she’s facing during H Bypass. Similar for blocked/whiffed EKG into safe DHC, often I get the wrong DHC or it just doesn't come out cus Val turns around so quickly. Dunno if it happens to other people but seems like a simple QoL change.
- Increase ground H Bypass’ range very slightly: Ending ground string into sHKx3 H Bypass sometimes whiffs when done midscreen vs certain light characters. Increasing the range slightly would fix this and shouldn’t have much of a balance impact since it’s never used while point outside of combos and the assist already reaches fullscreen. This can be seen by doing the standard midscreen combo starting with your back to the corner vs Fortune (remove the dash before sLP).
- There are a couple of strange counter situations. One is that if you counter the opponent on the same frame that they hit your assist then the counter comes out but the opponent isn't frozen, forcing you to block and hitting your assist.
- Would be nice if countervenom placed the opponent in a standard position. You don't get much time to judge if the opponent is in a position where you can crHP after CV a jump-in which makes converting weird sometimes.
- Could Acquisitive Prescription (counter w/o vial loaded) please revert Sekhmet back to Eliza if you hit her out of the counter freeze state? The same way it gets rid of armour and brings Double back when you counter Car. Otherwise you're forced to use OTG immediately on a sweep punish (used to be you had to throw/snap Sekhmet).
- H Bypass crHP TK L Bypass AD jHP sometimes crosses up on Parasoul in the corner (this is likely more to do with Para hurtboxes than Val I'd guess).
- This probably counts as more a bugfix than QoL but this should maybe be removed (do a throw/hitgrab during counter's startup and scaling is at a higher value leading to massive damage). These same properties apply to Annie's taunt counter so I guess this is intentional? It seems weird/unnecessary to me but if it is intentional then that's ok, I don't think it's a huge deal either way.
- Extend DHC window on ground scalpels. This window feels overly small, I've resorted to basically mashing my DHC input now because I don't trust the window.
- Extend the hitbox of crMK(2) slightly so that the second hit no longer whiffs when done at max range.
- Could the hitstun of jHK(1) be extended slightly so that L and M Bypass combo off it? In some combos, vs certain characters, the first hit of jHK can connect when you weren't expecting it to (eg crHP jHP H Bypass delay jHK M Bypass usually only has 1 hit of jHK but vs Band and a couple others both hits can happen) so having a bypass that will always convert off of either hit would be nice. jHK(1) H Bypass should still uncombo for the easy double snap though.
- Could the hitbox on the 2nd hit of jMK be extended upwards slightly close to Val's body (not at the edge of the move, just towards Val's centre)? Sometimes the 2nd hit of jMK will whiff if the first hit makes contact high up.
- I'm not super fond of this idea but if people want to fix the "Val is blind" problem of crHP whiffing through opponents then the collision box could be extended upwards during its startup. This would remove a couple kinda gimmicky resets but it'd probably resolve the issue (those said people could also just learn to put a button like sLK or sMK in front of crHP instead but eh).

- Make it easier to DHC towards the end of Car super (especially on whiff). I've missed so many Scalpels DHCs after Car and while I should also get better, it'd be nice if the window was just a bit more generous.
- The 2nd hit of sMKx2 sometimes whiffs through opponents when you hit them in the air w/the first hit. Would be nice if something could be done to stop this from happening or make it happen less (though I imagine this would probably ruin someone's favourite jank reset lol).
- I don't think this is a particularly big deal since it's easily avoidable/rarely comes up but Double is - after Car in the corner if she's already used OTG (if the car knocks the opponent back into the corner). How - depends on the character (eg vs Band she's very punishable but vs PW she's slightly +) but changing this so that Double isn't punishable/- on hit might be worth considering. Not a big deal tho since it is easy to avoid if you know about it.

I'll try and record a video with examples for some of the things I've mentioned here later, along with add details for the stuff that is character specific.
Finally got around to recording some examples for these so here's the video demonstration.
Head-on Fortune:
- sHP H Rekka whiffing at max sHP range
- Head Toss hitting twice but not giving stagger

Headless Fortune:
- IAD jLK jMP, the jMP whiffs vs some crouchers
- CSF in the corner, if done post-kill leaves you punishable if you hit the head
- sHK M Rekka Headbutt sHK H Fiber hits the head in the left corner consistently but misses the head in the right corner if you don't walk forward vs Beowulf.
- Rekka Zoom doesn't work vs Double in the corner
- OTG Gato (hits head) doesn't restand Double

Valentine:
- H Bypass can whiff vs some characters after sHKx3 in Val's ending ground chain (FI, FU, MF, AN). Consistent setup for demonstrating this is BDAD jMK(1) jHP (fastfall).
- jHP often crosses up during TK Bypass combos vs Parasoul
- The 2nd hit of crMK whiffs after crLK crMK at max crLK range
- Sometimes the first hit of jHK will hit certain characters in combos where it normally whiffs and no bypass combos off of the first hit of jHK, catching you by surprise and resulting in blocked bypass
- If the first hit of jMK connects vs someone above Val then the 2nd hit can whiff, making confirming off this button difficult/inconsistent

Here are a couple images for the headless corner specific one vs Beowulf showing that in the left corner, Fortune and Beo's collision boxes overlap
1629200162254.png

1629200170972.png
 
assist change.png


I would like to re-propose this as a QoL change, with assist call inputs not overlapping some assist + special moves will be a lot easier to do and much more consistent as a result.
 
Just a few things on this
- Headless CSF is punishable on hit if the first few hits kill or you hit a dead body and she's hitting her head (incoming character comes in and punishes). Would be nice if Fortune got the Bella Dynamo treatment to avoid this (where the opponent's incoming is delayed slightly if the first few hits of Dynamo kill to avoid Bella being punishable).
- Nom will fly in different directions in the midscreen optimal route depending on which direction you're facing and your Nom timing. I know Liam is already aware of this but thought I should include it anyway for completion's sake. Suggested change would be to make the head always fly behind Fortune (which is what it does in most situations).
Having incoming lockout on squigly tag would be really nice as well, I dont want to buff tag but tagging into squig after a kill is a bit annoying as is.

Personally, I really like nom as it is now. It always flies away from the closest edge of the screen, which enables some really cool stuff. I wouldn't mind if it was changed that much, though.
 
I have a small Parasoul suggestion:

"Held Tears will travel beyond the edge of the screen"

This won't break anything that currently works. It just enables more creativity on more spaces of the screen.

An example below: this setup only works when you have your back at the corner, so the H tear travels to the ground. It is not possible midscreen.

Making it so held tears are able to travel freely will enable some fun routes I think.

:pray:
 
P>K in the air for Val would be amazing, and definitely the better choice (in neutral) for a majority of Val players. Neutral execution should be prioritised over combo execution. Plinking assist to 236P in neutral at a moment's notice without accidentally getting bypass is hard :(

I'm down with HK>P>K on the ground though, that sounds fine if a little convoluted.

A small thing I'd like is to make the Pummel Horse post-hit animation even shorter (it was made shorter before, but even shorter would be even better). The main idea is just so both players don't have to sit through the animation for as long so the game flows better, but there will be a side effect where characters in the back of both teams will regenerate slightly less red health, and Pummel Horse becomes a slightly worse tool for winning by timeout. The move can't be picked as an assist, so it's not going to screw anyone's combos up.
 
Been a minute, but random but for Val, if vial projectile speed could be bumped up to squigly charged chord speed. Would love to actually make throwing it a thing again but rn it’s too telegraphed & can’t be thrown from too far. Loading takes commitment so just makes sense to me. I like risky ‘shooter’ situations & having more reason to use would be nice.

Also can we please change vial input to qcf p+k? I’m always hitting vials despite trying to light tap or something else
 
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If you're talking about accidentally chucking your vial when you wanted to throw shurikens, it should be completely impossible to get an accidental vial if you throw shurikens with negative edge. 236P will throw a vial if, after the quarter circle, the P input is held for 8f or longer. Val goes into the projectile toss animation once the special input is detected, and if P is held for the first 7 frames, she'll switch from shuriken startup to vial startup.

So if you hold down a P button, input 236, then release the button, Val won't even enter the projectile toss animation until after the P button is already released, which ensures 0 button down frames every time.

I made a whole video explaining what negative edge is and what kinds of things it can be useful for in the context of SG, but I'll probably only put that here if somebody asks for it. I'm kinda self-conscious about unsolicited self-promotion, and about making videos with lots of text instead of voiceover because my mic's busted and I keep forgetting to replace it.
 
If you're talking about accidentally chucking your vial when you wanted to throw shurikens, it should be completely impossible to get an accidental vial if you throw shurikens with negative edge. 236P will throw a vial if, after the quarter circle, the P input is held for 8f or longer. Val goes into the projectile toss animation once the special input is detected, and if P is held for the first 7 frames, she'll switch from shuriken startup to vial startup.

So if you hold down a P button, input 236, then release the button, Val won't even enter the projectile toss animation until after the P button is already released, which ensures 0 button down frames every time.

I made a whole video explaining what negative edge is and what kinds of things it can be useful for in the context of SG, but I'll probably only put that here if somebody asks for it. I'm kinda self-conscious about unsolicited self-promotion, and about making videos with lots of text instead of voiceover because my mic's busted and I keep forgetting to replace it.
I feel you. just feel like negative edge shouldn't be a standard for using a simple projectile -- hence quality of life. but ill definitely look into that to use instead. when things are tense I know some including me might press buttons a little harder or for a few more frames. overall main ask was vial speed.
 
multiple times the last few weeks I've had point characters drop out of hdrill fireball happy birthday and fukua is unable to convert into otg on both characters in the corner. happens when assist eats one of the hits of the fireball super, even when hdrill hits cleanly all hits on both characters
anecdotally it happens the most to me on Eliza assist

hdrill is a below average but usable reversal so it sucks to see a big thing it has going for itself, contesting assist calls out of corner and converting into snap, not feel 100% consistent. I can't really think of other characters dps having this problem?
if it was just the assist that consistently dropped out I wouldn't mind it that much

just a lame way to lose a set, would be cool to have slight vaccum hits on either move or something to prevent it from happening
 
Lately when digging through replays after a long set, I've found myself wishing that the Replay Theater's menu displayed the stage that the replay takes place on. The data for this is kept in the .ini file for every replay already, so I imagine that implementing this feature wouldn't be too difficult, even if it's just another line of text.

I know that this QoL suggestion isn't exactly gameplay-related, but it would improve QoL and I'm not sure where else to post it
 
Lately when digging through replays after a long set, I've found myself wishing that the Replay Theater's menu displayed the stage that the replay takes place on. The data for this is kept in the .ini file for every replay already, so I imagine that implementing this feature wouldn't be too difficult, even if it's just another line of text.

I know that this QoL suggestion isn't exactly gameplay-related, but it would improve QoL and I'm not sure where else to post it

I’d put here —> Might be good to put in OP
 
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So I know Cerebella can't titan knuckle or sweep Band after Ddrop and not sure if anything can be done to alleviate that. But apparently in the corner, Robo is the only character you can't hit OTG with titan knuckle after dynamo. So if you do any combo that retains otg and want to get that extra titan knuckle damage at max undizzy, you can't against her. Making titan knuckle hit lower to the ground would fix that.
 
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I'd like to see Tumbling Run changed to just always have the same duration regardless of which version you do. There's already a precedent for this; Painwheel doesn't have to worry about remembering to technically always fly with HK at neutral because LK and MK have shorter duration, and she can Unfly whenever she wants anyway. Double can Flesh Step with any K she wants and she'll get the same thing. When other movement specials don't want weird variations, they tend to just not have them. Which makes Tumbling Run just kind of weird (probably because Tumbling Run is the oldest move like that in development order).

It's not a high priority; and a lot of Bella players have been remembering to always run with HK at neutral for almost a decade now. But it feels silly having to remind new players that it's technically always better to run with HK at neutral so you don't come up short of the place you wanted to run to. Just a thought.

It also caused an argument with a friend of mine once, which is more funny than relevant. He had noticed on his own that the LK and MK versions run less far, and just came to the conclusion on his own that the only possible explanation is that the LK and MK versions must be able to armor more hits or something. "Clearly there MUST be SOMETHING to justify the shorter duration; the idea that a move in a fighting game could be pointless or useless, especially after many balance patches, is so unthinkable that it proves I must be right. Look how silly you sound, implying that a fighting game designer would intentionally make a move pointless. There's no reason to do that, so clearly, they didn't!"
 
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I feel as a QOL change aegis reflector should either keep the opponent in additional hitstun or have a slight pull in effect so that the hits while its traveling always works. Theres many instances where they get hit by the first 2 hits of the super and then just drop out while standing. It’s really weird.

The second QOL change would be make DHCing OUT of reflector a bit easier. Sometimes I think the timing is when you see the “FLASH” part of the super and it’s not. It’d be cool if once it got to that part, the dhc didnt just totally disappear if you dhc’d too early, because chances are if you did retina reflector instead of flash, you want the mirror out always.
had in mind for some time but sonics comment (from umbrella alpha thread) reminded me

sidenote, similarly eliza LoS, making early DHC window right when she jumps out her chest but hasnt made contact yet a little easier. right now at least for myself it’s very Tough timing that visual cue, and only time I can dhc is after bouncing off the opponent in which case is too late. referring to being really close or right up on them. Not saying impossible but it’s incredibly easy to screw up.
 
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Launch Option called "Tournament Edition" which defaults Random Stage Select to SGCS series, to be updated as a branch whenever for that context sensitivity
 
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and following tangentially off retina, don’t need anything else w/SBO on squigs but if it could last as long as retina before its first hit would appreciate that. Actually using it as a tactical implement that doesn’t disappear so fast. Majority of observed use is mainly DHCs or confirms which i dont sneeze at, but as Such a diverse super able to block (certain) projectiles, block certain approaches, etc, feel like this picks up more slack while fitting with her flexible-neutral team glue identity. just feel it disappears a bit too fast. As one of the few truly neutral-focused supers it's been a thought for a while especially w/slower meter gain.

edit: after hopping in training mode untouched SBO is about 3.5secs then disappears, whereas retina is 5.5secs after superflash.
This sounds like it would belong more in the beta discussion thread no? After all, this isn't really a QoL change but just a buff to the super.
 
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This sounds like it would belong more in the beta discussion thread no? After all, this isn't really a QoL change but just a buff to the super.
Sure. moved.
 
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- making the basic bnbs a bit more consistent, i know that these can be solved by just getting better at the game but like these are the most basic bnbs for these characters and i still struggle to hit them sometimes even after playing the game for 6 years, i dont expect these to actually get into the game but if i could have any qol change for the characters i play

i wish fukua's j.hk -> s.mk was more consistent, i always get counter hit from a mash super while doing her bnb when the ping is high, the button hits mid and isnt too useful in neutral afaik so maybe make it a bit faster but with more recovery frames (?)

another one is double's barrel loop with j.hk -> m barrel, i wish she would fall faster with the opponent during m barrel so that the opponent is less likely to get caught in avery esp with light characters, i dont really see m barrel used outside of combos but i can see that this might have some unforeseen ramifications

edit: actually i changed my mind pls pls pls make fukua c.mk vacuum, it would help stabilize high undizzy restands and help her convert punishes with it more consistently, she's already so stubby as a character so having one button to help punish mbang on block or spaced brass would be so helpful

- moved to another thread pause button in replay theater? i know you can pause with the pause menu but i maybe there could be a pause that doesnt bring up the menu

- sub menus in training mode or the option to have sub menus, esp with the addition of umbrella's settings, the training mode menu feels too cluttered
 
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- pause button in replay theater? i know you can pause with the pause menu but i maybe there could be a pause that doesnt bring up the menu

- sub menus in training mode or the option to have sub menus, esp with the addition of umbrella's settings, the training mode menu feels too cluttered
Launch Option called "Tournament Edition" which defaults Random Stage Select to SGCS series, to be updated as a branch whenever for that context sensitivity
The feature suggestions thread might be a more appropriate place for these ideas: https://skullheart.com/threads/feature-suggestions.11590/
Since this thread is just supposed to be for stuff directly related to gameplay.

Sorry to be posting two times in a row telling people "this isn't the right place for that" But your ideas will probably have a better chance of being seen if they're in the appropriate thread.
 
The feature suggestions thread might be a more appropriate place for these ideas: https://skullheart.com/threads/feature-suggestions.11590/
Since this thread is just supposed to be for stuff directly related to gameplay.

Sorry to be posting two times in a row telling people "this isn't the right place for that" But your ideas will probably have a better chance of being seen if they're in the appropriate thread.
yea np, ive moved it to that thread, seems other people there also already had similar requests
 
can that low eliza airdash be easier to do pls
 
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Can we get a slight increase in Peacock's c.MP, or even make it two hits so that both hits vacuum? First hit pulling out the arm, second hit the eyes coming out. Or even halfway through the eye animation being 1 hit and then the second when they are fully out.

Or even item drop vacuuming SLIGHTLY more when it combos.
 
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Can we get a slight increase in Peacock's c.MP, or even make it two hits so that both hits vacuum? First hit pulling out the arm, second hit the eyes coming out. Or even halfway through the eye animation being 1 hit and then the second when they are fully out.

Or even item drop vacuuming SLIGHTLY more when it combos.
What
 
please make air gregor invincible enough to not get air thrown please god