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SF4-style unblockable?

the most annoying move ever just got dumber...

does this work on anyone else beside filia???
 
Doesn't look like an unblockable. I just looks like Filia is getting crossed up by Valentine's J.Hp sometimes.
 
Look more closely, first he tries holding back. Hits filia. Then he tries holding foward anticipating the cross-up, still hits. Then for the hell of it he down backs and down fowards, still hits.
 
could you set the training thing to gaurd so we can see if it is truly unblockable or just a tricky cross up?
 
DeathArcana said:
could you set the training thing to gaurd so we can see if it is truly unblockable or just a tricky cross up?

he tries to block it both ways and fails so it would fall into the category of unblockable.

i dont think that setting the training dummy to block everything is really a good way to test it since it is known that there are some weird situations that cause the dummy not to react correctly. plus the fact that a dummy could block it is in no way an idication as to whether a human could do it.

the way he has tested it (by recording the dummy performing it and then trying to block it himself) is definately the best way to test it. you can see that you have to block it on the exact frame the hit connects which is the only way to beat (some) of the unblockables in SF4, which obviously is nearly impossible.

if this only works on filia however then i take back my previous statement and it can stay.
 
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Rizil said:
Look more closely, first he tries holding back. Hits filia. Then he tries holding foward anticipating the cross-up, still hits. Then for the hell of it he down backs and down fowards, still hits.

Well yeah, of course. But if it's crossing him up unpredictably, then it has a chance of hitting him regardless of which way he's blocking. He might have just gotten unlucky with each failed block attempt, as would be the case for every failed block attempting assuming that this move does in fact cross up unpredictably in the corner.

I'm not saying it isn't a random unblockable, I'm saying it doesn't look like one. Try what DeathArcana said and set the computer to block after first hit so we can see if it ever takes the hit or not. The computer shouldn't ever get crossed up.
 
Evilweevle said:
the fact that a dummy could block it is in no way an idication as to whether a human could do it.

That's not the point though. It's not a matter of whether or not a human player can block it, it's a matter of whether or not it CAN be blocked. If the game is dropping inputs on frames like SF4 (which it isn't), then perhaps it actually is a random unblockable. But I doubt that is the case here.

If Val's J.Hp does in fact sometimes cross the defending player up in the corner, then testing this against the computer should be the best way to test for this. The computer shouldn't get crossed up, even if the move is crossing it up in an unpredictable manner.
 
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people need to get off this idea of whether a computer could block it.

you could set a comp to all block marvel3 style 1 frame high/low unblockables and it doesnt all of a sudden make it realistic to actually block them.
 
It's not about it being realistically blockable though. It's about it being blockable at all. Hard-to-blockables have been perfectly fine so far. Unblockables are a different matter.
 
Evilweevle said:
people need to get off this idea of whether a computer could block it.

you could set a comp to all block marvel3 style 1 frame high/low unblockables and it doesnt all of a sudden make it realistic to actually block them.

Well yeah, but once again that isn't the issue here.

The point is to test whether or not it's crossing up, not whether or not it's an unblockable. If it's crossing the defending player up, then the computer should block every attempt no matter what. If it is truly an unblockable (single frame high/low, dropped inputs, etc.), then the computer should fail to block it just like a real person would.

Like IsaVulpes said, he manages to block the move a few times given the same situation. This leads me to believe that it's just crossing Filia up. If you can prove otherwise, then go ahead.
 
Maybe the same thing that made Peacock's backdash behave randomly (frame rounding?) makes Val randomly (not) cross up. The j.LK would definitely allow you to cross her up, if just by a pixel.
 
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Yeah, I'm seeing just a really weird corner setup here that sometimes crosses up and sometimes doesn't based on whether you're a frame or two early or late. Not the only Val thing that behaves that way.
 
the combo is pre-recorded, so idk how you can make it a frame difference issue. best bet is it might be where filia stands at the start of the combo changes where she lands by a pixel, and that difference is what determines where she lands to make it cross up or not. even then however, its so completely random filia has a damn near impossible blocking choice. my big question however, is can you mash an updo in that 1 frame and stuff it before its a thing in the first place.
 
All I want to know is... can Filia Updo? Fenrir?
 
I don't see what changed that made it blockable at the end?

SF4 "unblockables" is something with the character turning around and moving a few pixels creating a dead zone.

This is not that. This is like Filia got nudged out the corner maybe creating a corner crossup.
 
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Oh god, I hadn't even noticed that the combo was a recording, and the controls were showing what the defender was doing.

It looks like what made it blockable at the end was waiting until he was out of hitstun to attempt the block, maybe? Which would be a fucking weird bug, and one that definitely needs to be fixed.
 
SF4 'unblockables' are actually 1f blockable.
If you hold back = You get hit
If you hold forward = You get hit
If you press back on the correct frame = You block it

That's exactly what seems to happen here.

I'm not sure how people, after watching the video and reading the title, come to ideas like "It randomly crosses up" or "Test whether the CPU on all block can defend against it" (obviously they can, a HUMAN blocks it in the video..)

Skullmageddon said:
If the game is dropping inputs on frames like SF4
This is the first time I hear about SF4 randomly dropping inputs, can you link me some article??
And what does this have to do with anything either way?
 
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IsaVulpes said:
SF4 'unblockables' are actually 1f blockable.
If you hold back = You get hit
If you hold forward = You get hit
If you press back on the correct frame = You block it

That's exactly what seems to happen here.

I'm not sure how people, after watching the video and reading the title, come to ideas like "It randomly crosses up" or "Test whether the CPU on all block can defend against it" (obviously they can, a HUMAN blocks it in the video..)


This is the first time I hear about SF4 randomly dropping inputs, can you link me some article??
And what does this have to do with anything either way?
I think he's accusing the frame skip which doesn't skip inputs.
 
IsaVulpes said:
I'm not sure how people, after watching the video and reading the title, come to ideas like "It randomly crosses up" or "Test whether the CPU on all block can defend against it" (obviously they can, a HUMAN blocks it in the video..)
Because I don't know what an SF4 unblockable is (because I don't play SF4), and the video and post gave me no other idea of what I should be looking for.
 
It's just like IsaVulpes said, you have to block in the frame that it hits.
It has something to do with the character moving a bit and by that changing the direction he needs to block.
He should have turned on hitboxes so we could see it better.
 
Rizil said:
my big question however, is can you mash an updo in that 1 frame and stuff it before its a thing in the first place.
guitalex2007 said:
All I want to know is... can Filia Updo? Fenrir?
The reset actually hits Filia while she is still airborne (otherwise she could crouch under it). And it actually beats Gregor Samson and j.HK, which I didn't include in the video since it wasn't particularly relevant.
 
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Cynical said:
Because I don't know what an SF4 unblockable is (because I don't play SF4), and the video and post gave me no other idea of what I should be looking for.
The title specifies "SF4-style unblockable". So if you have no idea what's so special about SF4 that its 'unblockables' have a name on their own, you could try googling "SF4 unblockable" and would end up here http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/94351/what-does-unblockable-mean (first result).

Mr. X said:
I think he's accusing the frame skip which doesn't skip inputs.
SF4 has frameskip?
 
Cynical said:
Because I don't know what an SF4 unblockable is (because I don't play SF4), and the video and post gave me no other idea of what I should be looking for.
Here's an excellent video explaining SF4 unblockables, which I linked to in the video description:
 
Actually I think it has to do with landing rather than directionality.
I doubt you could find a similar setup where she's not landing on the exact frame she's being hit.
SG's blocking is based on what side of you they're on each frame, but that value is stored internally to the sprite at the beginning of each frame (so "must hold Left to block this frame" / "must hold Right to block this frame"), so there isn't any "if you switch sides this frame then you suddenly were holding the wrong direction" junk.
That doesn't mean this shouldn't get fixed, but it's not SF4-style. SF4-style is a whole different class of screwup. :^)
 
ok, so I thought this was just the fuzzy thing coming out of standing hitstun, till I rewatched and saw the high block on the first try.

Tested it with slowmo and it looks like the airborne preblock frames shift her center forward, making holding right move her center further left.
 
Mike_Z said:
Actually I think it has to do with landing rather than directionality.
I doubt you could find a similar setup where she's not landing on the exact frame she's being hit.
SG's blocking is based on what side of you they're on each frame, but that value is stored internally to the sprite at the beginning of each frame (so "must hold Left to block this frame" / "must hold Right to block this frame"), so there isn't any "if you switch sides this frame then you suddenly were holding the wrong direction" junk.
That doesn't mean this shouldn't get fixed, but it's not SF4-style. SF4-style is a whole different class of screwup. :^)

you can definitely do it on a completely airborne filia
 
Fukua has the same thing, center is at different spots depending on preblock or not.
 
Well, okay. Filia/Fukua are the only one with the problem, but this is a thing that's covered by the fact that we have to fix a lot of stuff on Filia related to air frames anyway. NEATO.
 
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i wish people would actually pay attention to what is actually going on in videos before they post their misinformation.

dont trust the dummy options people! i remember i once found a ms fortune "unblockable" against the cpu on all block except when i tried blocking it myself it was easy and never worked.
 
IsaVulpes said:
This is the first time I hear about SF4 randomly dropping inputs, can you link me some article??
And what does this have to do with anything either way?

That's my bad, I wrote the wrong thing and didn't catch myself. SF4 does have frame skip issues, but it doesn't have anything to do with unblockables in that game since it doesn't eat inputs as far as I know. Maybe I was thinking of another game or something, I dunno. Anyways it's my fault for not thinking or proofreading myself well enough.

At any rate, Age's video really helped. I didn't realize from the original post that the successful block attempts were from blocking on the same frame. I have trouble properly reading that small input display that shows current position sometimes since it's rather subtle. Setting input display to all really helps.

Also it sounds like Mike is familiar enough with the situation to problem solve it when he gets the chance.
 
I knew Val's j.HP was dumb because it can randomly cross up but not look like a cross up, but god damn.
 
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