Shared undizzy

[SkippyMcYay]

When you've built up some undizzy and go for a reset, there is some messed up risk-reward going on. If your reset lands, you get to do a short combo after. If you go for a reset and your opponent reversals you, they can frequently do a full combo on you at the cost 0-2 meters. Even if you block, they might have a safe DHC. It's very favorable for someone to go for reversals when they expect a reset because they have so much more to gain than their opponent (momentum shift, more damage, pressure on block).

I propose that if you do a move with any invincibility frames, then your opponent gains your undizzy value (you still have it too). That way, if you land a reversal, you can't get massive damage when your opponent's damage potential is much smaller. Of course, they would still have reset opportunities, which is fine! They just couldn't do a reversal into a full combo with its full potential for resets everywhere. Furthermore, if someone did a reversal into a safe DHC and started pressure, the blockstun would lock your undizzy so if they went straight for a 50/50 they couldn't full combo you.

Originally I was going to suggest that there just be a single undizzy bar that players share, but I figure people would be upset if they hit with a non-reversal move after their opponent built up undizzy, nerfing their combo for no decent reason.

 

[Broken Loose]

Okay, now armored reversals are awesome and invulnerable reversals aren't.

 

[Evilweevle]

this game already has a lot going on in the form of IPS tracking, undizzy meter, blue/green/red tech bounces, blue/green/red bursts etc etc. please no more system mechanics!

 

[Negus Eyoel]

yeah man darn those blue bounces.

on a serious note it's not adding a mechanic to the game it's the further tweaking of an existing mechanic. i for one would love to see this become an experiment in beta.

 

[TheMightyBox]

Am I
missing something here?
Why would you punish someone for accurately predicting a reset?
The whole point of the IPS and undizzy was to force people to have to either go for the risk-reward situation of a reset or just end the combo and go back to neutral game.

 

[IsaVulpes]

The very *idea* of Undizzy deteriorating, rather than going back to 0 instantly, is to reward you for resetting early.
Shared Undizzy goes entirely against said idea, instead causing me to reset during/after my last string, cause that carries "Zero Risk" - if they reversal Updo xx Gregor and I got hit, they're now in Stage3 and I sit on 260 Undizzy.

This also has obvious issues with armored reversals, DP assist calls, invincible moves midcombo (Fortune landing c.LK s.HK xx L.Fiber suddenly gets +100 Ud?), invincible moves that aren't really reversals (Opponent lands a full combo into slide KD on me, then tags, I wake up, he dashes in and I hit him with Sing xx SBO - why am I sitting at 200 Ud now?), being a blanket nerf to all reversals which you can get combos out of (eg you might see Thresher as too good, but does M.Bang xx Argus xx Gregor deserve the same treatment?) while not touching those which deal a ton of damage by themselves at all (non cancelled Bella 360, SSJ), probably more I'm forgetting

Not too hyped?

 

[Broken Loose]

Am I
missing something here?
Why would you punish someone for accurately predicting a reset?
The whole point of the IPS and undizzy was to force people to have to either go for the risk-reward situation of a reset or just end the combo and go back to neutral game.

Yeah, it's not like reversals don't have risk. If I bait your reversal, not only will your drama probably drain to 0 during your attack, but I'll also get a gigantic counter-hit combo.

Shit, the part where spending up to 2 meters constitutes "some messed up risk-reward going on" makes me wonder what the fuck Skippy'd consider an appropriate cost to be. If I'm on offense, I'm likely using 0 meter to reset while very often baiting my opponent to mash super. That's already heavily in the attacker's favor!

The whole point of a reset is that you risk a reversal or a block. In exchange, you get a shitload of damage and meter (I mean a minimum of 3k damage tacked on basically anywhere), positioning control, and the opportunity to either do it again or pick your combo up where you left off.

 

[Nap1400]

Ha, you guys are seriously expecting Skullgirls players to bait reversals. :^)

 

[SkippyMcYay]

The very *idea* of Undizzy deteriorating, rather than going back to 0 instantly, is to reward you for resetting early.
Shared Undizzy goes entirely against said idea, instead causing me to reset during/after my last string, cause that carries "Zero Risk" - if they reversal Updo xx Gregor and I got hit, they're now in Stage3 and I sit on 260 Undizzy.

This also has obvious issues with armored reversals, DP assist calls, invincible moves midcombo (Fortune landing c.LK s.HK xx L.Fiber suddenly gets +100 Ud?), invincible moves that aren't really reversals (Opponent lands a full combo into slide KD on me, then tags, I wake up, he dashes in and I hit him with Sing xx SBO - why am I sitting at 200 Ud now?), being a blanket nerf to all reversals which you can get combos out of (eg you might see Thresher as too good, but does M.Bang xx Argus xx Gregor deserve the same treatment?) while not touching those which deal a ton of damage by themselves at all (non cancelled Bella 360, SSJ), probably more I'm forgetting

Not too hyped?

I'm not sure why you would say zero risk in your first point, even if it's in quotes. By landing the reversal you have flipped the game momentum and are able to do a quick reset, or if the undizzy is full, you can do an (obvious) burst bait. Nevertheless, you will have done some damage and have the initiative.

For invincible moves midcombo being an issue, if you mean that it could give you less undizzy, the rule could be that you can only gain undizzy, not lose any.

I'm not too worried about armored moves because most moves with armor have several non-armored frames to start, so they shouldn't get you out of a lot of resets anyway. Feel free to make me eat my words on that with some frame data, but armored moves can be included if that's the case.

Invincible assists are not great to throw out when you expect a reset, cause 1. You can't can't call assists when you recover in the air, 2. It does nothing if you block the mixup wrong before the assist starts, and 3. You can get happy birthday'd if you got hit.

Ha, you guys are seriously expecting Skullgirls players to bait reversals. :^)

You better have some fantastic baits or you're gonna be blocking catheads/SBO/PW rushdown afterwards. With these kinds of possibilities on a blocked super, why do they need to get a full combo on hit too?

 

[dekillsage]

Are safe dhc's really that big of a deal? Like I get doubles, but the rest are whatever lol.

Also this proposal is ehh to me, but at this point I don't really care what changes about the game.

 

[Mr. X]

The undizzy the attacker cranked up should go to him if the defender escapes the reset by hitting you with a reversal.

Reason being that the potential full combo from the "use to be defender" is too much punishment on the attacker who made a bad choice with the reset (who could've completed his full combo instead).

I'm just seeing if I understand this.

 

[SkippyMcYay]

Yep that's the gist of it.

 

[gluemchen]

It seems counter productive to what the game actually is ment to be. Burst baits are there to bait people to mash shit or if they are smart about it wait it out and counter accordingly. Getting a reset to increase dmg after having built up too much undizzy is your choice. How one defends against that is up to the individual. Predicting tendencies or reading peoples play styles and winning mentality is all something that comes into play. But punishing the damage output of someone just because they either read their opponent or mashed a reversal is not something you want to include into a game that is all about mixups, baits and resets. If you got hit you got hit. Deal with the outcome of your decision of going for a reset with getting your ass whopped for huge damage. Because your not going to get rewarded for being too predictable. So yeah deal with the damage you rightfully received. I really don't like this idea at all. It defeats the entire purpose of "I read you like a book, but hey i'll deal with damage decrease because i'm not convinced of my play".

Not calling anyone out. Just stating my oppinion on the idea of this mechanic.

 

[SkippyMcYay]

Alright, I'll admit this idea is misguided. I still hate the complete momentum shifts plus big damage off reversals but it kind of goes hand in hand with the insane offensive options in this game. Any change to the former would need changes to the latter to maintain balance, but system changes this wide would be too ambitious.