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Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

Isn't airball > dash cancel > jab (the fastest followup to airball on block to keep pressuring right?) NOT a true blockstring anymore? That makes it so the options for both players are:

Airball > dc > jab: Filia frametraps any non reversal button after airball and gets a hit, opponent shouldn't press buttons unless it's invincible if he reads a jab followup.

Airball > dc > block: Implying Airball was low enough so it's not an air dash and she's not committed to it so buttons don't stuff it. Thus wouldn't be much different from doing any + move that she already has with the added benefit of extended gap closer potential for less speed (versus air dashing).

For both of these the defending player can pushblock by the end of airball and never get into this state at all. And IF he does read an airball gap closer, it's easily reversable... kinda like Wulf Cannon but worse I guess?

I don't play Filia anymore, but I don't think this is strong enough to be taken off already. My perspective now is that of a defending player, and I don't think it would be hard to deal with so I'm all up for it.
 
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Mike_Z said:
@dekillsage regarding Airball dash cancel on block
Does it make her more fun, though? :^) Cuz I'm still not seeing busted, I'm just seeing "I'm not used to it".
Also what's the opinion about Birthdays vs getting all 3 heads?

I'll respond more tomorrow, just mentioning these before I forgot.

I'd be having fun if I played Filia and I could airball at an opponent in the air and then airdash cancel out of the way if it got blocked. I'm okay with it as a blockstring when you airball into the ground, but when you start using it as an air to air move its like hey I'm gonna just airball into this guy or do it just to move and if its blocked I'm in, and if its hit I got a combo so it works out.

If the idea was to give Filia reward for moving around in other places that was originally semi risky, she did not need it, even as a solo. If the idea was to make her more fun then zzzzz idk that's a little odd to me.

I personally would rather risk getting happy birthday'd and getting all 3 heads always. I can play around the happy birthday stuff way more, I feel.
 
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happy birthdays are fun
3804ae39cd.jpg
 
@Mike_Z

About fortune.

Can Fiber be strike invuln and headroll be throw invuln?

also can you pretty please take a look at 2lk 5mk not being a auto pushblock bait. its really really frustrating to have to deal with fortune's long low and you want to pushblock and you get hit cause you missed it by a few frames.
 
About fortune changes:

Fiber scaling only really affects damage from reversal H fiber, you just have to do c.hp routes now, and they always did more damage midscreen anyway...

The early slide route is still a max range confirm, has the biggest meter gain, consistent happy birthday and carries as far as a full fiber loop ending in slide and doesn't lose any damage from fiber scaling (and does more than regular fiber loops with s.hk starter).

H gato change doesn't also doesn't really affect damage, j.hp j.hk H gato j.hp j.hk M gato s.hp into fiber loop still does over 10k, and this also "affects" optimal headless routes with nom into j.hk H gato j.lk j.hk H gato (don't know if this matters though, and either way M gato on the second one only loses like 30 damage)

Headless change is cool I guess? Not a huge fan of having to commit to a move after moving the head or not being able to kick it though, if that's how it works.
 
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Yeah I don't know if that change is going to affect hold HP stagger headbutt pressure either, that's pretty important for her.
 
Again, the main thing I see wrong with airball > adc is the setups that now exist for an ambiguous high/low situation.
 
Liam said:
Not safely and reliably hitting directly above you without risk of failure is a universal problem because not everyone is given 6P anti-airs.

Unless you're Robo, she gets to do that all the time with Mine / sHP / L Danger / Magnet to cover each of the air approach angles.

Everyone else usually has to bet on a super or DP.

Filia 5HP Filia 5HP
Filia 5HP Filia 5HP
Filia 5HP Filia 5HP
Filia 5HP u Filia 5HP
Filia 5HP Filia 5HP
Filia 5HP Filia 5HP
Filia 5HP Filia 5HP
Filia 5HP
Filia 5HP
o_o
|
/ | \
|
/ \​
 
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Could replace filia with eliza and 5HP for 5MP and it would still be accurate
 
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Initial anti-air directly above you thoughts. I don't think peacock needs a buff in this regard but...

BB- 5HP (kinda), 2MK, 623P
ELI- 5MP, 5HK (kinda), 2HP (on a read), 214K series (kinda), 236MK, LVL3

PNW- 5MP, 5HK (kinda) not really a problem considering not many characters can get above painwheel

CER - 5MP, 5HP, 5LK (kinda), 2MP, 2MK, 623MP, 623T (kinda, it's more likely to work than not)

FIL - 5HP, 2MP (not as good as fukua's), 623P/623PP

FUK - 5HP, 2MP, drill super???

FOR - 5HK (kinda), 2HP, 5HK-headless (better than head on), 623K (head on)

VAL- 5HK, 2MP, 2HP, LVL 3 (kinda)

DOU -5HK (kinda), 2MP (kinda), 2HP (kinda)

ROB - 2LP, 2HK (doable), 236LK

BEO- 5HP(kinda), 2HP, 214KK
BEO w/o C- 2HP, 214KK

SQU - 5HK (SLOW, not very god but it's there.), 623P(p bad w/o charge), 214LK+HK

PEA -2LK (kinda)

PARA- 5HP (Slow af, only use on a read), 2HP(nobody is gonna use this and it doesn't even work 90% of the time), flashkick doesn't even help here tbh, 236PP (on the hardest of reads)

Peacock, Parasoul, and Squigly are imo the most lackluster in terms of anti-airing people directly above them. Painwheel's for the most part fine cause who's ever above you, Beo has a dedicated anti-air super that will hit people directly above him. Most of the cast has at least something rather decent without meter and with meter they can typically call someone out who's directly above them. Peacock's definitely the most lacking but maybe she needs to be? Para definitely is lacking but she's ok at the moment

...although I do get tight at stuff like
ihE0k6I.png

Squigly's lacking but she does at least have a dedicated anti-air directly above her super so she's ok when she has meter for the most part and or sing on deck.

Note: I know air-air's are a thing people use to "anti-air" but honestly I consider those to be two different things. Nobody in the military refers to an Airplane as a anti-air option, they refer to tanks with anti-air ballistics as anti-air. So, imo anti-airing and air to airing are two different things. Especially, because jumps have like 4f(???) startup and the earliest thing most characters can do is like 6f, so that's like most people Medium on the ground. I know Para's is like 7f (jLK) so that's 11f, which is the same speed as her 2MP.

Note2: This isn't in regards to anti-airing in general, It's just to point out that most characters at least have some sort of button that hits people directly above them in some regard, whereas a few characters do not have very effective tools in this regard. Peacock and Para specifically. This isn't a bad thing but it's just something I would like to point out.

I don't think she needs a buff in this regard because besides the fact that she is the worst at this particular aspect of her gameplay she makes up for it with shortburst screen control, bomb threats, and just generally being a nuisance a zoning to a LOT of players especially with a good assist and meter. That being said she also s**ts damage.

Note3: I'm not asking for anything, I just wanted to help out the convo with some info.
 
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Masqman said:
I know air-air's are a thing people use to "anti-air" but honestly I consider those to be two different things. Nobody in the military refers to an Airplane as a anti-air option, they refer to tanks with anti-air ballistics as anti-air. So, imo anti-airing and air to airing are two different things.
Just wanted to quote this so that people who TL;DR your message can see this out of context.
I've never heard someone refer to an air move as an anti-air, btw. It's usually just called a good air to air move.
 
If you do an air-to-air with the intent of beating their aerial approach, is that not anti-airing?
 
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Masqman said:
...although I do get tight at stuff like
ihE0k6I.png
This was fixed two patches ago.

fffff.png

It's also pretty clear from your list you play Parasoul :P
You made sure to point out hers are awful and didn't list Napalm Pillar, yet Double's sHK, Painwheels sHK and Cerebella's cMK + many others get mentioned as anti airs.
 
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Cadenza said:
anti-air is usually regarded as a grounded move to defend yourself against aerial attacks. wtf?
Usually. I've always viewed situations like this as anti-air and I don't see why it's not. Different action, same idea. Admittedly, it's not what people would traditionally call an anti-air, but you are acting against an aerial approach, sooo... it makes sense in my head
 
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Liam said:
didn't list Napalm Pillar,
Flash kick = napalm pillar
 
Tank said:
Flash kick = napalm pillar
Masqman said:
flashkick doesn't even help here tbh
I meant what I said.
He didn't list flash kick as a move that helps as an anti-air.
He mentioned it and made sure to exclude it from the list.

(I just think it's way more viable for hitting someone out of the air than a lot of those other moves, which was what I was getting at.)
 
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Liam said:
I meant what I said.
He didn't list flash kick as a move that helps as an anti-air.
He mentioned it and made sure to exclude it from the list.

(I just think it's way more viable for hitting someone out of the air than a lot of those other moves, which was what I was getting at.)
I also made a particular to note directly above the opponent which is why I specifically didn't mention Flashkick as an option. Same with Luger etc. Although they can Anti-air I was under the impression we were talking about moves/character who deal with anti-airing directly above them. Note the "(kinda)" on all of those
DOU -5HK (kinda), 2MP (kinda), 2HP (kinda)
They aren't "real" but they still technically work against a character directly above you (in this case Val who I tested on).

Liam said:
This was fixed two patches ago.

View attachment 13826

It's also pretty clear from your list you play Parasoul :P
You made sure to point out hers are awful and didn't list Napalm Pillar, yet Double's sHK, Painwheels sHK and Cerebella's cMK + many others get mentioned as anti airs.
Also, has it? really? Cause I still can never hit her when she's does that right above me so I just assumed it was never changed. Huh, I guess I'll use something else or try and time it better so she's not directly above me.

Bella, Band and others has other moves that anti-air without having the opponent being directly above them, with them being in front slightly. However, unlike these moves, (kinda) means they are more likely to work as anti-airs in that sense just not in dealing with people directly above your head which I believe I mentioned a bunch of times.
"Initial anti-air directly above you"

In order to determine this I went into training mode used val to test what works and what doesn't. Pillar(Flash kick) didn't work at all. Which is why I mentioned "yes flashkick is by definition an anti-air but it doesn't work here because...blahblahblahramblerambleramble".
"flashkick doesn't even help here tbh"
...ok maybe I was a bit unclear there. Being thorough and short is hard ok...

Not saying I think that her having mediocre anti-airs directly above her is bad, I think she makes up for this with good aerials in general and screen control using tears in front or around you. I've used a tear above my head with 28LK before but that's takes some prep and setup to have there and then use. Unlike, Eliza 5MP, Band 2MK, etc. The reason I mentioned Para (and Squigly, and Peacock who I despise in this game) because these are problems specifically relating to them. Double as well, but imo not as much those three. Cause H Luger while not hitting directly above is still HELLA good in general.

hilaryyy said:
bruh

b r u h
:P, I meant at least from what I've watched with this character it's been people trying to anti-air her not vice versa. When someone is above her it's not because she's at neutral or something but because she's in blockstun and she's trying to defend something. I don't see the situations of "someone's jumping in on a Painwheel on the ground and she needs to defend against it" nearly as much as "someone's jumping in on a Peacock, Squigly, other... on the ground and she needs to defend against it".

Basically I've haven't seen her actually on the ground enough to come up. Just from watching Tourney's and lobby matches and streams etc.

Mod Edit: Please do not triple post.

Masq Edit: Sorry I'm still getting used to foruming I usually just lurk and laugh.
 
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Zidiane said:
There are a couple moves in the game that give different hitstun depending on how it's used, like Bella's j.mp, the new Fortune axe kick change, Eliza's s.hpx3, Squigly's s.mk, etc., so I think this kind of solution would fit well.
Chained/used more than once/used more than once/vs air. None of those is "inside a combo vs not". (New Parasoul tear j.LP yes yes.)

Knocking them backward doesn't prevent the reset.

The difference here is this: If you reset WITH L or H shadow, you can't do that same reset again because you started the combo with it. If you reset OFF M shadow, you can use it again after that reset. That is the thing I'd like to do away with.

noaa said:
Airball > dc > block
This option doesn't exist, because it's not a regular dash. The only things you are able to do after a dashcancel are attack, or wait for the dash animation to complete. You can't crouch, jump, or block during it. It is ONLY possible to continue pressure. And the pressure is frametraps only.
(also @dekillsage)

dekillsage said:
I'd be having fun if I played Filia and I could airball at an opponent in the air and then airdash cancel out of the way if it got blocked.
(Emphasis mine)

After an Airball dashcancel, she's already used her Airball, and she doesn't have an air DP. Unless she does Gregor Samson, Filia is required to either go through the entirety of a 20f dash where she is not allowed to block, or 1f of a dash and 18f of j.LP startup-through-recovery, before she is able to block again. Six of those frames are during your blockstun, but for the remaining at-least-12 you're free to do whatever you want.
Additionally, she's already used up ALL her air options, so if she's still airborne you know exactly where she's going to be.
I get that you're frustrated, but you're usually pretty good about analysis...

The dash isn't CH state, but that doesn't mean she's free. And I could actually fix that! :^P

PME said:
Again, the main thing I see wrong with airball > adc is the setups that now exist for an ambiguous high/low situation.
?

Cadenza said:
also can you pretty please take a look at 2lk 5mk not being a auto pushblock bait. its really really frustrating to have to deal with fortune's long low and you want to pushblock and you get hit cause you missed it by a few frames.
Those are on the list. Fortune and Robo are the only two characters that have any L->M chain that isn't a blockstring.

Making Fiber throwable is a BIIIIIIIIIG DEAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLL...but I would probably leave headroll invincible.

CaioLugon said:
The early slide route is still a max range confirm, has the biggest meter gain, consistent happy birthday and carries as far as a full fiber loop ending in slide and doesn't lose any damage from fiber scaling (and does more than regular fiber loops with s.hk starter).
Perhaps you're misunderstanding - ANY jump-able Fiber at ANY point scales by an extra 40%.
CaioLugon said:
H gato change doesn't also doesn't really affect damage, j.hp j.hk H gato j.hp j.hk M gato s.hp into fiber loop still does over 10k
No it doesn't, see above.

OH @CaioLugon or @PME or whoever plays Fortune, if you have input suggestions for being able to move the head and end without it attacking, I'm all ears! Currently it is [HP] + UF/F/DF/DB/UB/B. Perhaps releasing HP while holding an U direction wouldn't attack or something, but I tried to figure out how to make that not confusing...and couldn't...

Masqman said:
Initial anti-air directly above you thoughts. I don't think peacock needs a buff in this regard but...
PNW- 5HK (kinda) not really a problem considering not many characters can get above painwheel
PW s.MP is 14f, hits directly above her, and if it armors anything she autocorrects. Why would you use s.HK?

Okay now, for dekillsagearino
dekillsage said:
The change to item drop not letting you drop it until you leave blockstun or w/e it was, I'm sorry I don't 100% remember the change, screws over peacock way too hard. You can force her to charge level 2/3 item drop removing it from play.
This is totally false. As soon as she lets go of the button the item stops getting bigger, even during blockstun, so she can still drop a lv1 item after 2 minutes of blocking stuff.
Though you can't PBGC into the item drop...
Strangely, I might agree some small buffs to her zoning may be in order...though they still don't help her once you get past it.

dekillsage said:
I can't see how people think she's an amazing S tier character.
dekillsage said:
What makes her good:
-High damage output on hit. The best in the game
These equate directly, especially for Japanese players, considering she isn't missing basic movement options and can overhead you or throw you into the same huge damage. If Peacock has to hit you once and you die, compared to Robo having to hit you 4-5x, it matters.

I'm also kinda sick of people equating "doesn't have a reversal" with "sucks when you get in on them". EVERY CHARACTER IN THE GAME CAN BLOCK (nobody say 'Sekhmet"), and players like Hayao or Kuroda (or 159man!) prove that having defense is possible, which it is even in SG. Not being able to immediately hit back is not the same as guaranteeing you will get hit.
 
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Can we do (if possible) Fukua shadows not going off screen if you walk forward? Like they stay and move with the wall if as though the wall is pushing them? Or if not, make shadow distances go longer? Though the latter might be a bigger, yet necessary, buff.


So without revealing into too much tech, stuff like this can work?
 
Mike_Z said:
Making Fiber throwable is a BIIIIIIIIIG DEAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLL...but I would probably leave headroll invincible.
I think she should have an invincible meterless DP.
She's had it since day 1.

But maybe H doesn't have to be jump cancelable on whiff, and M can take H's height for jump cancels as the movement option. (L being for combos.)
Gives each version a use, unless people use M for something I'm not thinking of already.

(That's a huge nerf though, idk)
 
MegamanDS said:
Can we do (if possible) Fukua shadows not going off screen if you walk forward? Like they stay and move with the wall if as though the wall is pushing them?
I haven't got a problem with this, because if you run past one it still goes behind you rather than at you, so it's only useful on crossup.

MegamanDS said:
So without revealing into too much tech, stuff like this can work?
The less tech you reveal in the Beta, the less helpful you are. :^P
 
Mike_Z said:
PW s.MP is 14f, hits directly above her, and if it armors anything she autocorrects. Why would you use s.HK?

I totally didn't take into account armor when I did this. It does. I guess I just didn't notice the hitbox as I was going through them. I can add that to the list if anyone cares.
 
Mike_Z said:
I haven't got a problem with this, because if you run past one it still goes behind you rather than at you, so it's only useful on crossup.

It's not only useful in crossup, it would be useful to Fukua on combo extensions as well. Unless I misunderstood you or you misunderstood me.

For example, this would work too if shadow stayed on screen or went further.
 
MegamanDS said:
It's not only useful in crossup, it would be useful to Fukua on combo extensions as well. Unless I misunderstood you or you misunderstood me.
Nah, you're right. What I meant was it specifically WOULDN'T help the case where you put out a shadow and run away, and the opponent gets past it, and then you let it go.
 
@Mike_Z unless I dont understand what you mean, Off of j.hk h gato j.hp j.hk m gato I still get 10.9k in 1.O counterhit. I use L fiber first as the 15th hit, so I don't know if the scaling matters at that point.

edit: if this was non counter hit then Im sorry for being dumb
 
Cadenza said:
wait till the patch hits perhaps?
I said the first time i use l fiber is as the 15th hit, which I thought was when a combo was at max scaling (stating that the h gato loop still does almost similar damage avoiding l fiber)
 
like i said wait till patch hits. Mike has said there was alot more in the patch than what he showed and we haven't gotten it yet. that is all i meant. I do see your point. i just want to see the build in action and confirm if that is possible.
 
Mike_Z said:
ANY jump-able Fiber at ANY point scales by an extra 40%.
oh boy rip fiber routes

But either way, if the goal of the nerf is just to reduce her damage I'd much rather lose damage on her attacks than having to avoid fiber, and this would also nerf gato loops and keep her combos the same (do you not want that?).
OH @CaioLugon or @PME or whoever plays Fortune, if you have input suggestions for being able to move the head and end without it attacking, I'm all ears! Currently it is [HP] + UF/F/DF/DB/UB/B. Perhaps releasing HP while holding an U direction wouldn't attack or something, but I tried to figure out how to make that not confusing...and couldn't...
What about 22[HP] to go into "walking mode" with the head and have it hittable and not attacking after you release the button? I don't think I'd have any problems with this.
 
Mike_Z said:
The difference here is this: If you reset WITH L or H shadow, you can't do that same reset again because you started the combo with it. If you reset OFF M shadow, you can use it again after that reset. That is the thing I'd like to do away with.
Assuming this response means all of my suggestions are no good.

What about making it so if the move hits on the ground it's old m shadow, but if it hits in the air it's new m shadow? Like, the hair does the pincer thing then drags them into the grab thing. You can only combo into M shadow from c.mp, c.hp, which puts them in the air, so it would remove the vortex.
 
Mike_Z said:
I get that you're frustrated, but you're usually pretty good about analysis...

As soon as I finished playing against it I went and tried it for myself in the scenarios it was annoying me and the result the majority of the time was me getting counter hit for pressing after airball. So yeah, I was pretty frustrated with those results. Apparently that's not supposed to be the case???

Mike_Z said:
This is totally false. As soon as she lets go of the button the item stops getting bigger, even during blockstun, so she can still drop a lv1 item after 2 minutes of blocking stuff.
Though you can't PBGC into the item drop...
Strangely, I might agree some small buffs to her zoning may be in order...though they still don't help her once you get past it.

You're right. It's just so easy to get stuck in blockstun and then hit by a mix up that I would just hold the button anyways and try and drop it when I needed it. Hardly works out.

Mike_Z said:
These equate directly, especially for Japanese players, considering she isn't missing basic movement options and can overhead you or throw you into the same huge damage. If Peacock has to hit you once and you die, compared to Robo having to hit you 4-5x, it matters.

Her damage afaik is based on her starters, and her best starters are either from bomb teleport mix ups/grabs/assists. Not sure how she gets huge damage off of throw without spending a ton of resources, but whenever I start a combo off of a bomb or throw the damage isn't that ridiculous.

Her ridiculous best damage in the game starters are hard to land. It's actually hard to get into a spot where you can make them happen, exceptions are routes like the one peanuts does where he resets into a 50/50 level 2 item drop mix up. Sure I only need to land one hit, but I had an easier time landing those 4 hits as robo fortune to kill a solo with a level trio robo fortune. Having a combination of good pressure, get off me tools, get in tools, ridiculous speed, and easy hit confirms made it feel super doable. Peacock a lot of the time I get stuck in weird spots where my hit confirms just barely miss, or my item drop misses cuz the opponent moved an inch forward, or where I would need to create a specific distance between myself and my opponent and dashing kinda took too long and jumping didn't help much.

Also in the 3v3, you can die in 2 resets, or in 2 full combos depending on the combo you do. So I guess I don't really feel like it makes much of a difference for me when I don't get hit by her very often and whenever other characters hit me I can die almost as easily? Like if big band, beowulf, or cerebella hits me it's the same feeling as when peacock hits me. It's only in 2v3 or 2v2 where its like MY HEALTH YOOOOOOOOOO SHE'S DEAD. Does that make sense?

Mike_Z said:
I'm also kinda sick of people equating "doesn't have a reversal" with "sucks when you get in on them". EVERY CHARACTER IN THE GAME CAN BLOCK (nobody say 'Sekhmet"), and players like Hayao or Kuroda (or 159man!) prove that having defense is possible, which it is even in SG. Not being able to immediately hit back is not the same as guaranteeing you will get hit.

Well, yeah. But.... I mean.... *twiddles fingers* 159 man reversal'd me so good on defense.... almost every time.... was pretty cool.

Having good reversal options just help, but even without them other characters have an easier time dealing with some of the stuff I feel Peacock just can't handle too well.
Eliza for example doesn't have amazing reversal options. Like she has a dp, but it can be thrown, and you can do safejumps or jump over her to beat it clean. But Eliza also has the option to anti air people with st.mp if they decide to jump above her wrong, and the option to IAD j.lk j.hp vs people who are respecting DP too much or if she reads grab. She also has an amazing airthrow that scoops people from... the craziest spots sometimes. With Peacock, all I want is a way to get out of the corner you end up retreating too so often. Something to stop Filia from IADing at me so hard when I push block her out. Something to tell parasoul hey if you jump at me you better watch out for this cool button that might hit you as you come down.
 
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Zidiane said:
What about making it so if the move hits on the ground it's old m shadow, but if it hits in the air it's new m shadow?
[snip]
You can only combo into M shadow from c.mp, c.hp, which puts them in the air, so it would remove the vortex.
You can hold it, so this isn't true.

dekillsage said:
As soon as I finished playing against it I went and tried it for myself in the scenarios it was annoying me and the result the majority of the time was me getting counter hit for pressing after airball. So yeah, I was pretty frustrated with those results. Apparently that's not supposed to be the case???
It's a frametrap, of course you'll get CH for pressing a non-invincible button if she attacks right away.
She can't repeat the pressure because she can't jump out of the dash (if grounded) and she already used up her airball (if airborne). Airball has very low priority and does pitiful damage per hit so trading with it if she uses it as an advancing move is pretty much impossible to be on the worse side of...if you pushblock the last hit of Airball she has three normals, counting ground and air and crouching, that will actually make contact after dashing, and the ones that do are immediately PBGC'd because you recover 2-3f after it touches you.
There's a 1f gap before fastest-possible s.LP, and 2+ before every other move. It's a good frametrap, but you can DP, armor, or assist clean because she has no options after that dash that allow her to block at all - to beat reversals she either has to guess DP if she landed or guess Gregor if she's airborne.

Yes, it gives her another pressure option. I thought it would be pretty broken, but in practice it seems not to be. There already exist other characters with longer pressure strings from Airball's start distance that leave them at better advantage with fewer holes. The best she can possibly do after that is mix you up.

dekillsage said:
Sure I only need to land one hit, but I had an easier time landing those 4 hits as robo fortune to kill a solo with a level trio robo fortune. Having a combination of good pressure, get off me tools, get in tools, ridiculous speed, and easy hit confirms made it feel super doable. Peacock a lot of the time I get stuck in weird spots where my hit confirms just barely miss, or my item drop misses cuz the opponent moved an inch forward, or where I would need to create a specific distance between myself and my opponent and dashing kinda took too long and jumping didn't help much.
That's you, though. You find it easier to play some characters, that's why you play them.
Not everyone plays the way you do - some people play looking for very specific openings to kill you off one when they get it. (Me, for example. :^P It's how I play everyone I play, in every game. I found it easier to land hits as Tron or Juggernaut in MvC2 than I did as any of the god tier characters that had a billion ways to mix someone up, because I'm not fast enough to utilize those kinds of mixups properly; but when a situation happens that I know I can capitalize on, or I can condition you in some way, I DO it. And when I land my hit, you die.)

dekillsage said:
Also in the 3v3, you can die in 2 resets, or in 2 full combos depending on the combo you do. So I guess I don't really feel like it makes much of a difference for me when I don't get hit by her very often and whenever other characters hit me I can die almost as easily? Like if big band, beowulf, or cerebella hits me it's the same feeling as when peacock hits me. It's only in 2v3 or 2v2 where its like MY HEALTH YOOOOOOOOOO SHE'S DEAD. Does that make sense?
Sure, it makes sense. But if you read what you said again, you said "this character that has fullscreen chip ability, lots of projectiles, huge meter gain, a teleport, etc...hits like grapplers and Big Band". You're trying to use that as a downside because the bruisers hit just as hard, but those are the HARD HITTING CHARACTERS! And Peacock has strengths at ranges they do not have.

dekillsage said:
Well, yeah. But.... I mean.... *twiddles fingers* 159 man reversal'd me so good on defense.... almost every time.... was pretty cool.
If you count getting CH as a possible reversal attempt, and ignore upbacking (which he DOES do a lot) or improper blocking and getting hit, there are 4 reversals from him in this whole set against you:
By contrast, I reversal 4x before my first character is half dead. :^P
..........?
 
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Liam said:
Gives each version a use, unless people use M for something I'm not thinking of already.
I use it for the Marie specific corner max combo.
...
Does forced scaling apply to Marie...Hmm that would be annoying, no more 44440 death combo. On the other hand I still have a fiberless combo that deals okay damage, but it's hardly comparable in the end...
*crawls back into its home dimension*
 
CaioLugon said:
What about 22[HP] to go into "walking mode" with the head and have it hittable and not attacking after you release the button? I don't think I'd have any problems with this.

I was kind of curious about NE after walking inputs if you only wanted to move the head, something like this sounds awesome.
 
filia needs buffs dont nerf filia pls uwu

Also DO NOT HIDE TECH HOLY SHIT

I had to give up so much cool stuff to Mike for the better ( ;_; ) SO YOU SHOULD TO BEFORE A FINAL RELEASE
 
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Mike_Z said:
You can hold it, so this isn't true.
I keep forgetting she can hold shadows. What about changing the hitstun for m shadow (old) so they always land on the ground before recovering if it hits vs ground (either adding hitstun or making the launch smaller, idk), but still had the new m shadow on-hit hit effect vs air? She would be able to reset still, yeah, but it would be a lot easier to deal with. She would just get either a high, low, or throw instead of that ontop of left rights. It would basically make it light osiris spiral, since you can do abc osiris, abc osiris, reset, repeat, and no one is complaining about that being too good.
 
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for fukua, I think if old M shadow is gonna come back at all the best way is just old M shadow at neutral, new M shadow in combo. Do they start with the same animation while held so it could be something like with the hitstun check used in new m shadow; like if they're in hitstun do new, if not do old? (I would say if she gets this then it should still be the pre-change beta M shadow where they got knocked away, I always thought her getting a full combo off m shadow hitting from 3/4 screen was pretty dumb). I also dont play fukua so maybe no fukua players would want it this way but it seems like the simplest solution to what people want M shadow for.
 
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