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Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

Played a few games, didn't notice the Peacock damage nerf too much, did notice the difference in 3 v 2 when it came to getting j.hp clips though but it's only really 300 per hit. Didn't find myself trying to use lenny all too much as I went up against the likes of Filia, Val and Fortune who can just ignore it and got for a hit to combo away from the bomb or back off if blocked. I just need to try it in other matchups where it might be more reliable. I didn't notice too much difference when I went for Mp bangs, and if I'm not mistaken I still got low profiled by Val or Fortune.

I still wish her air light wasn't so slow or had better range, I just don't get why she has to have a 9 frame light for air to air confrontations. Also one thing Sage pointed out to me before, but is it possible to have Argus align better against aerial opponents? This is especially apparent in my corner combos where I argus but since their feet get clipped by the beam, they only eat about 10 to 15 missiles instead of about 25. It seems to vary on character weight and height.

As for Bella, the Dynamo change did cost me a couple of times when I was cornered and the foe was attacking directly above me, quite sad about that but I'll have to adapt to it. And I'm curious as to why her level 3 lost damage. I know it's only a few hundred but as far as combos enders go; in retail level 3 only did about 700 more than titan knuckle-copter-dynamo and now that's down to about a 500 difference. Though in all fairness this is talking about the corner mostly. Midscreen the level 3 does about 600 more than a standard dynamo ender, but you can get a titan knuckle after level 3 wall bounce for an extra 400 or another dynamo. Guess it's not a big deal in the end, but just curious as to why it lost damage at all.
 

Did a overview of the patch notes last night on stream. So yea, some of this stuff you guys already know, but made a video anyways for those who haven't seen it in action.
 
Swiftfox-Dash said:
just curious as to why it lost damage at all.
Probably because people were complaining about how strong of a reversal it is compared to other lv3s
 
Hello Everyone!

Im loving the new patch, Lenny is awesome with robo second <3
But im having an issue

Im a squigly main and love doing seria cancel pressure, resets, etc. and this new patch is causing something

I play on an xbox 360 controller, normal macros, so usually when i do a seria cancel, i in essence do a qcf. grab motion, starting with X to A (Lp -> Lk)

As of this update, whenever i try to do that, it doesnt cancel, instead, Riger mortis comes out. Is there a way to fix the priority's or do i have to learn to reverse that?
 
BlueFeena said:
In response to Eliza button priority:

If I understand this correctly, isn't this about being able to do lazy inputs and still get a DP? In Retail the other night, I was able to do:

CQF + Assist = Servant with Assist
DP + Assist = DP with Assist
QCB + Assist = Sekhmet with Assist

... if I understand this correctly, then wouldn't changes to the button priority make it impossible to do Servants + Assists along with Sekhmet + Assist? That seems like a really bad tradeoff just for being able to do lazy inputs; I would prefer the option to either DP / Servant when I want and Sekhmet + Assist seems far more scary than Osiris Spiral + Assist. In the button priority thread, the only real effect I see this having is being able to mash DP on wakeup and get DP + Assist; this might help her defense but I'm not sure about neutral. Put me down for "leave it alone." As always, weight my opinion for what it's worth since every other Eliza posting here is better than I am.

it's also about being able to use preblock OS like other chars can, which i value far more than servant+assist in neutral or from resets. clean 62387 is a very difficult input to get without accidentally getting a quarter circle in there. regular DP+assist is easy enough with current input priority.
 
You'll have to explain to me what it is you're trying to do, I'm not familiar with any pre-block OS's. An OS for Eliza sounds like a good defensive (?) tool but I'm afraid I don't understand what you're trying to do? Tiger Knee into something? Based on the 62387 input you provided at least (DP + Upback?)
 
Did anyone mention Squigly not being able to combo off her airthrow if the opponent called an assist since the assist takes the divekick hit? If not, can this be fixed?
 
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Swiftfox-Dash said:
Also one thing Sage pointed out to me before, but is it possible to have Argus align better against aerial opponents? This is especially apparent in my corner combos where I argus but since their feet get clipped by the beam, they only eat about 10 to 15 missiles instead of about 25. It seems to vary on character weight and height.
Having argus in general tug airborne players downward a bit would make the second part more consistent regardless of if they got tagged as a combo finisher or if they whiffed a mid-argus punish.

The lack of sound cues when Lenny gets pushed really jarring now that projectiles and argus aren't "hitting" it in quite the same way. I hope that's not final.

While irrelevant to the patch itself. I feel like Tenrai Ha itself is kinda garbage. I asked around about it and the only useful use I've heard was that it serves as a decent time to tag Peacock out and get someone else in since it locks them down for a spell. I disagree with that usefulness since any other L3 item gives enough time to tag during the hard groundbounce, but putting a TRH up as a wall between you can work, I suppose. Other than that, it doesn't have that much going for it. It can and will ruin Argus Agony if it hits in between the super's parts, the latter hits of TRH are all level 2 item drops and can trip IPS or undizzy bursts in some edge situations. Every single hit of TRH builds undizzy if it doesn't hit early on in the combo. Avery has a tendency of screwing up TRH to the point where neither of them will combo together (at best I could suggest to make TRH into an "Avery" move so that his projectile disappears but that wouldn't solve cases where Avery is spawned in between the distinct hits of TRH). I just don't see any practical reason to go out of my way to get a TRH when I could just stick with regular item drops and try my luck for a Road Roller instead.
 
Dagwood said:
I agree P > K for eliza

and, I think Parasoul's m egret is pretty bad now... especially with peacock getting those buffs

Also a Suggestion: Something I've always wanted for awhile, is the ability to select Blind Pick when i make a lobby
It's especially annoying in online tournaments, Since i play several teams and like to counter pick, It feels like you're at a disadvantage if you pick first. But waiting for the other person to pick feels jerk-ish too.
In an offline tournament you tell a third party your team and have the opponent do the same.

Third party verifies that both players didn't counter pick.

Adding blind pick would mean translating the "Blind Pick" text into a bunch of languages and adding UI stuff so that's no good.
 
Would it be possible to have HK+LP and HK+MP not call the same assist ?

It would allow people to do motions that requires HK to choose which assist they wanna call at the same time (for example Parasoul's Napalm Pillar + assist 1 or 2).

It may be something like that :
LP+MK / LK+MP / LP+HK = assist 1
MP+HK / MK+HP / HP+LK = assist 2

But I guess more characters need to have the two options on HP idk
 
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BlueFeena said:
You'll have to explain to me what it is you're trying to do, I'm not familiar with any pre-block OS's. An OS for Eliza sounds like a good defensive (?) tool but I'm afraid I don't understand what you're trying to do? Tiger Knee into something? Based on the 62387 input you provided at least (DP + Upback?)

this os but with eliza.

every character with a DP can do this more or less, with assist as well.
 
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Something that always bugged me was that Fortune can't hit her head out of the recovery of her head attacks (she has to wait for the move to end, and enter the cooldown before you can hit it again).
Now that sneeze goes this high, I want to hit it even more. Can we let her hit her head out of head attacks after the active frames? Or is that too good for reasons I don't know?

Edit: The height is nice, especially vs Painwheel, but because it goes so high, it also takes much longer for it to land, so it's impossible to do combo > sneeze > combo > any head move since the head is still in cooldown. Could the cooldown be reduced to compensate?

Also, the 10% nerf mainly bugs me because it will mess up my damage calculator.
It is impossible to know, from training mode, what the base damage of Head-on 5HK is now with this change because it always gives the 10% scaled version.
 
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Sneeze going higher, input buffer and invincibility is pretty great, it feels awesome to be able to hit painwheel out of the air with it, but one thing that I used to do a lot was ending combos with it and doing a left/right mixup very much like the old fukua M shadow vortex (without looping back into itself), but now they go too high and can sometimes hit the head after recovering, which throws off the timing for a mixup on the ground, also with the current angle it can whiff from pretty close during a sandwich combo, and it'll whiff after zoom > feral edge in the corner if the head is on the other side of the screen (but you can move it midcombo so this is not that big of a deal). If other players are ok with it, would it be possible for it to have to old knockback and be slightly more angled?

And also, is there a reason as to why you have to wait for the startup of the jump to end to input a throw? With buttons you can input it the frame after you hit 8 and they still come out, but if you do the same for a throw you get nothing.

And can 6698 not give you and airdash? It's the most infuriating thing in the world when you're trying to dashjump but end up getting an airdash and dying for it...

And one more thing, can bigband get a buffer for inputs done after e-brake? It would make some corner routes much more accessible.
 
CaioLugon said:
And can 6698 not give you and airdash? It's the most infuriating thing in the world when you're trying to dashjump but end up getting an airdash and dying for it...
I noticed this too, but it wasn't Fortune specific and my inputs were a little different. I told Datagram about this the other night, but apparently you can do "lazy" airdashes by doing UpForward -> Neutral -> Forward. I kept wondering why my dash jumps were turning into airdashes too.
 
BlueFeena said:
I noticed this too, but it wasn't Fortune specific and my inputs were a little different. I told Datagram about this the other night, but apparently you can do "lazy" airdashes by doing UpForward -> Neutral -> Forward. I kept wondering why my dash jumps were turning into airdashes too.
I wasn't just talking about fortune with this and the throw thing, this actually bothers me the most as peacock because she needs to dashjump in some combos and since you don't get a button when you get the dash I'd just get hit for it.
 
@Mike_Z Since you made the change for Fortune that you can hold HP to make her head walk, maybe the command list should be updated to say that "Zoom!" is to tap HP and the head walking is done by holding HP.
 
CaioLugon said:
And also, is there a reason as to why you have to wait for the startup of the jump to end to input a throw? With buttons you can input it the frame after you hit 8 and they still come out, but if you do the same for a throw you get nothing.
Maybe there's a buffer on normal inputs and air dashes but no buffer on air throw, similar to the Val issue of not being able to do 44,6 Air Throw that was fixed.
 
Ok so I haven't been around for a long, long time obviously, but have been floating around again recently, especially with the new wave of beta changes.

For the most part I've really been liking the changes in beta, though I don't understand the need to completely shake up Fukua, I also don't play her and have no issue. The Fortune changes are amazing, being able to move the head around completes her, something I've been wanting since way way back. (turning sneeze into nocatu isn't bad either)

However I'm completely confused with what's going on in regards to Robo. I've played her since she was first in beta and she is no doubt one of my mains, but I fully dislike the angle she is taking.

Robo has basically lost every single pressure option she once had, some of the frame data changes, perhaps were needed or at least shoudl have happened, but she's been left with garbage options off everything now. 5[MP] going from 6 ~ 0 is unbelievably harsh, I could pretty much understand every other frame data nerf she received if this stayed at least around +3 or so, it's multihit and therefore murdered by PBGC anyway.

The other change I'm really not happy with is the double jump overhead, though I can understand why this was done, in pretty much any situation where this was actually a threat, is was as a reset, or was pushblockable (aka PBAG-able) so I don't feel it was necessary (I'm possibly missing something big of course. Considering double jump j.HK left/right still works fine, this really just means it's another nerf to her pressure which was one of the main things I liked about her to begin with. The j.MP > dj.LP/land low mixup was strong, but required putting the opponent in blockstun in the first place, did people have trouble pushblocking/PBAGing this?

I'm sure I could keep going with this, headrone RAM tracking is now absurd at the cost of frame advantage which actually matters quite a lot when using it as an opening, though I guess I would take this either way as the tracking really does make it's space coverage pretty absurd.

Seems that the idea is to completely remove her offensive options as a coutnerbalance measure for buffs to her runaway reward. Personally I always played her as an agile hit and run character, knowing that beams were not a long term viable keep away tool and more a fullscreen poke, I feel she completely lost that playstyle in this transition to full on keep away/run away character. There are probably other Robo players out there who are completely happy with that and I know my complaints don't really matter in the long run, I just feel that she had a very unique place in the game before and is now moving more into a space that peacock and parasoul kinda already fill albeit in a very different way.
 
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worldjem said:
Also, the 10% nerf mainly bugs me because it will mess up my damage calculator.
It is impossible to know, from training mode, what the base damage of Head-on 5HK is now with this change because it always gives the 10% scaled version.
Wait, so like are normals scaling your whole combo by 10% more or something? I thought the patch notes just meant head-on normals all just have 10% less base damage, that's the new base for them.

Speaking of which, it would be nice if Training Mode could tell you how much damage scaling is at. There's an empty space in the attack data where it could fit.
 
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Neat I think I've only seen tekken tell the scaling. Please do
 
I don't play Valentine but here's something that came into my mind with the vial assist changes- what if by holding down the button she kept loading the vial up until level 3? Maybe the button combinations used for peacock item drop assists could work for her green, orange, and purple vial levels.
 
acfan said:
I don't play Valentine but here's something that came into my mind with the vial assist changes- what if by holding down the button she kept loading the vial up until level 3? Maybe the button combinations used for peacock item drop assists could work for her green, orange, and purple vial levels.
uhh i dont think that is a good idea
 
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acfan said:
I don't play Valentine but here's something that came into my mind with the vial assist changes- what if by holding down the button she kept loading the vial up until level 3? Maybe the button combinations used for peacock item drop assists could work for her green, orange, and purple vial levels.
No
 
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fenster said:
This this this this this
What about old Robo with new damage? Because the lower damage is staying.
KTFS said:
I guess the message from this patch to Robo players is "Man, you should zone" @@
I'm not sure how much of it I like, but experiments are experiments.
Tomo009 said:
Personally I always played her as an agile hit and run character, knowing that beams were not a long term viable keep away tool and more a fullscreen poke
Sure, except they her long term keepaway IS viable now. SOooooooo...what, would you rather go back to that not being the case?

Actually, I guess I should ask this:
WHAT about new Robo do you* like less?

* that's you, everyone.

zeknife said:
This does seem to have added at least one inconsistency
How important is that? I ask because it's hard to fix...I think...maybe not...

havick9 said:
okay, I tried them all and only squigly's was unblockable
Oy. Fixed that too.

KTFS said:
there's no collision box when getting hit grabbed and Valentine would just go right through...so close.
Oh, well I can fix Mortuary Drop to not do that, that's easy.

Cadenza said:
Could holding shadows auto correct when you release them perhaps?
No way. Not havin' you run past a held shadow and get nailed in the back, nope. No.

Dagwood said:
Also a Suggestion: Something I've always wanted for awhile, is the ability to select Blind Pick when i make a lobby
[snip]
Since i play several teams and like to counter pick
Be less of a douche. :^P Waiting for them to pick first is the appropriate jerk-ish response if you want to be a jerk.
In seriousness, it's really hard so no. It's already broken in 3/5 Quickmatch that I have to fix....someone remind me of that next week please. :^P

BlueFeena said:
Put me down for "leave it alone."
Me too, but the overwhelming consensus here has been "don't leave it alone because my DPs are not slick".

Swiftfox-Dash said:
And I'm curious as to why her level 3 lost damage. I know it's only a few hundred but as far as combos enders go
You use it for other things than ending combos, is why. CH 7k, DHC 5.5.

Triviality said:
qcf. grab motion, starting with X to A (Lp -> Lk)
As of this update, whenever i try to do that, it doesnt cancel, instead, Riger mortis comes out. Is there a way to fix the priority's or do i have to learn to reverse that?
This, I can fix.

worldjem said:
It is impossible to know, from training mode, what the base damage of Head-on 5HK is now with this change because it always gives the 10% scaled version.
That would be the base damage, then. (^.^) They don't add scaling, they just do less damage.

CaioLugon said:
And also, is there a reason as to why you have to wait for the startup of the jump to end to input a throw? With buttons you can input it the frame after you hit 8 and they still come out, but if you do the same for a throw you get nothing.
That's on purpose, if you want to AA throw then I want you to be better at it. :^P
CaioLugon said:
And can 6698 not give you and airdash? It's the most infuriating thing in the world when you're trying to dashjump but end up getting an airdash and dying for it...
Send me a replay file where you do that at the beginning, I'll see if I can fix it.

missingno said:
Speaking of which, it would be nice if Training Mode could tell you how much damage scaling is at. There's an empty space in the attack data where it could fit.
Maybe this is possible, not sure.
 
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can you then make the m shadow bounce like how it was when it was first implemented and not the big bounce one we had before this change?

Edit: still no buffer or indicator or anything to initiate movement after held shadow.

Double Edit: can the shadow hurtboxes be reduced by 10%
 
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CaioLugon said:
And one more thing, can bigband get a buffer for inputs done after e-brake? It would make some corner routes much more accessible.

Speaking of buffers, could Big Band's parries get the button dash buffer thing that Parasoul got for L Shot?
 
Completely random almost insignificant gripe incoming. Why can't parasoul set off any of the fireworks in nmo arena? Every character except her can do it. Story thing maybe?
 
Tank said:
Completely random almost insignificant gripe incoming. Why can't parasoul set off any of the fireworks in nmo arena? Every character except her can do it. Story thing maybe?
Wrong thread, but Parasoul doesn't set them off because she doesn't have a second strength screen shake move.
It's not NMO, it's every stage.
 
Mike_Z said:
I might be a terrible theory-based game designer, as every Robo player thinks right now, but when I design by feel I can do it pretty well. :^).

You're right! These new normals along with the no overhead djc is kind of extreme I feel. Her offense went from scary, to good, to "why?" Although on retail I prefer zoning as Robo rather than rushing down, there are times where zoning just isn't an option and you have to rush down. For instance the small handful of people who play anchor Robo. No need to nerf her offense into the ground at least give her something. I don't even know what to ask for at this point
 
Mike_Z said:
You use it for other things than ending combos, is why. CH 7k, DHC 5.5.

Oh is this referring to straight up DHCing into it raw? I was wondering how we were talking about Bella level 3 on CH lol. Man, my Lenny into Rocks never can catch a break =p
 
Ignoring Robo, Skullgirls has 2 rushdown characters, 1 zoner and 10 characters who space normals and specials to look for a way to get their offence started when it's good for them.

We already have "poke with projectiles and let them come to you, and then transition into your pressure when you find an opening" that's Valentine, Parasoul, Fukua.
Other characters can space with really good normals to force the opponent to get closer, such as Painwheel, Squigly, Double.

Retail Robo falls into the 10 catagory because her zoning wasn't good enough to keep people out and run away enough to actually kill very good players reliably. It was very sub-optimal and required tons of effort, and a lot of MU's were extremely difficult with just zoning.

Skullgirls has another shot at obtaining a zoner and nobody likes it because they just want to spin into peoples faces with fuzzies / left rights until they open them up for an easy 7.7K after annoying them with beams for 5 seconds. [That's retail]
Oh well. 1 zoner, 11 other, 2 rushdown it is.

BigEffinDud said:
Although on retail I prefer zoning as Robo rather than rushing down, there are times where zoning just isn't an option and you have to rush down.
YES, and then Beta solves this and lets her zone in all match ups because she got way more reward and tools to help her do it.

I'm apparently one of the few people who want to see her be a better zoner for the trade off of being worse up close.
She should not have both, that is not balanced or fair.
So if all votes are against the current beta changes, don't change her at all.
 
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do people like the l/m laser sliding knockdown more than the other knockdown thing during detonate mode?
maybe it was too OP because magnet causes explosion every time now but it was much easier to confirm a magnet after old detonate weak/medium laser knockdown
hard knockdown's pretty nice but isn't landing explosion more important though
 
Liam said:
YES, and then Beta solves this and lets her zone in all match ups because she got way more reward and tools to help her do it.

I'm apparently one of the few people who want to see her be a better zoner for the trade off of being worse up close.
She should not have both, that is not balanced or fair.
So if all votes are against the current beta changes, don't change her at all.
I'm all for her being worse up close. I don't mind reducing her block advantage, I admit s.LP->s.MP(hold) was kinda dumb if your opponent likes to press buttons, but from +6 to +0?? As stated previously it was already super vulnerable to PBGC because of the multi hit. Being able to poke more than once is a big deal in a fighting game like skullgirls I don't want to see her lose that. I completely understand and accept no djc overhead I completely accept lowering block advantage. I do not accept the extent at which he has done so.
 
Liam said:
We already have "poke with projectiles and let them come to you, and then transition into your pressure when you find an opening" that's Valentine, Parasoul, Fukua.
[glances at team] [glances at Ibuki, Akuma, B.B. Hood]

I'm fine with the previous damage nerfs and losing DJC pressure, I could still play the hit-and-run game with just a little more emphasis on running over hitting. In fact I'm liking that Robo better. I just don't want to completely lose the hitting. The new framedata seems like that's waaay too harsh, especially on top of the existing nerfs. Now it feels like she just can't go in at all.

If she's just supposed to be a pure zoner now with no other options, I guess that's not the character for me anymore.
 
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BigEffinDud said:
Her offense went from scary, to good, to "why?"
missingno said:
no other options
Everyone in the entire game has low-throw, and she still does 7k+ when she hits you.
NOT everyone in the entire game has zoning abilities. NOT everyone in the entire game has alphacounter level 3, or even level 3 activation, or missiles.

Let me spell this out for you: All of her buttons that are +0, can chain at any time into s.HP, which has a hit of armor and is VERY FAST. +0 is not punishable, it is safe. She has a normal speed s.LP, which means the only characters that can poke out without trading are Filia and Fortune. She has L Danger, which beats tons of fast pokes. And this is IGNORING s.HP, which is the option you use to check your opponent's desire to press things after you do something that's negative unsafe neutral on block.

Like...I get that people who initially picked her up may have done so because of rushdown, and therefore you might not like that she's a good zoner. You may enjoy her less because she's not as rushdown focused. This stuff I'm willing to listen to.

But I'm REALLY DAMN TIRED of people equating "requires thought on offense" with "has no offense". All that statement really says, is something about your ability to open people up. Try actually using the tools she has first, rather than just complaining because the tools she used to have are gone.

I do agree the throw thing is probably not necessary, though.

Adeveis said:
Did anyone mention Squigly not being able to combo off her airthrow if the opponent called an assist since the assist takes the divekick hit? If not, can this be fixed?
Fuzzy_Snugs said:
This is a very good post. This is some good suggesting right here right here.
Can't fix it unless you want one of the strengths of divekick to not hit assists at all. ??
In which case it still might whiff if they're big, I dunno.
Unless you have some other idea that isn't "make airthrow hold them in place long enough for the divekick to hit".
(Also, Fukua can't. :^)

havick9 said:
do people like the l/m laser sliding knockdown more than the other knockdown thing during detonate mode?
maybe it was too OP because magnet causes explosion every time now but it was much easier to confirm a magnet after old detonate weak/medium laser knockdown
hard knockdown's pretty nice but isn't landing explosion more important though
With sliding you can still confirm into it, you just don't get it as OTG - but you also have the option to not let them tech half a screen closer to you if you don't Magnet, which is way more useful if you don't have 4 bars or want to get Robo out for alpha counter shenanigans. This is overall a stronger option by far.
 
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Mike_Z said:
Can't fix it unless you want one of the strengths of divekick to not hit assists at all. ??
In which case it still might whiff if they're big, I dunno.
Unless you have some other idea that isn't "make airthrow hold them in place long enough for the divekick to hit".
(Also, Fukua can't. :^)
Air SBO when
 
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