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Skullgirls Beta Aug 5th Patch Discussion

Finally got around to some Big Band and the armor on giant step feels jank. Don't think he should have that tbh.
 
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RemiKz said:
Finally got around to some Big Band and the armor on giant step feels jank. Don't think he should have that tbh.
The goal to all of Band's buffs are to make him not so free against the zoning characters.. H Giant step having armor isn't a bad idea at all. I completely respect the decision
 
@Mike_Z Are you comfortable with the way the game is now? or are there more changes/balances in the works? just really curious as to how you feel about it
 
.... But Band was never free to Zoners to begin with. He had all the tools needed to negate hard zoning from Characters like Peacock and Robo Fortune. Yeah sure it required a tiny bit of skill and the knowledge of when to use His Parry and His Brass Knuckles but other than that, He's just fine.

But I have to side with RemikZ Armoured Step is way too funky and doesn't actually add anything to when it comes to taking out Zoning from full screen. The way I use H.Step is when the opponent is half screen away, yes it's much more risky, but from certain set ups I can force the opponent to jump allowing me to have a covering assist back me up during the recovery of H.Step.
 
Ninja said:
.... But Band was never free to Zoners to begin with. He had all the tools needed to negate hard zoning from Characters like Peacock and Robo Fortune. Yeah sure it required a tiny bit of skill and the knowledge of when to use His Parry and His Brass Knuckles but other than that, He's just fine.
Not a Band Player, or a Pea player, but I am a Robo player... Band is pretty free to Robo specifically, snuffing Brass with H beam and any Giant Step attempts are quickly sniped out with j.M beam. Never lose my Robo to a Band unless she's snapped in and i don't block the incoming and following reset/mixups. If Robo or Pea start their game it's very hard for Band to play it. I can't speak for everyone, I can say for myself Band, the character and not the player behind him, has a very difficult time against zoners
 
The H step however covers more than just zoners. You literally have an armored overhead that can beat a lot of things if timed correctly. Sure, you might have to work without an OTG in some cases, but at that point Big Band will be right in your face. I'd vouch for giving it projectile armor instead of normal armor, but as it is Big Band is getting some well-deserved buffs.
 
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Mike_Z said:
If someone else wants to explain, feel free.
bulldogmicro said:
@Mike_ZIf Parasoul could get a extra frame or two of hitstun on most of her attacks that would be great or maybe I'm just bad with her xD I dunno, but I drop A LOT of her combos.
THINGS THIS COULD MEAN:

1 or 2F to sMP would eliminate 1F links from shot if he tries them.

1 to 2F faster recovery / more hitstun on L Shot would give her new routes but help with links after for new players.

Extra frames on 5LP and x2 would give her more confirm time, and also let her delay her jabs to restand the opponent if she's accidentally juggling them.
(more frames in between 5lk x1 and 5mk X1 also make things easier)

Added frames to JLK and JMP and JMK would make her JLP ~ JLK ~ jMP \/ /\ JMK ~ JHP restand much easier and not super difficult on light weights especially when it hits OTG.
 
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Rabbleflaggers said:
The H step however covers more than just zoners. You literally have an armored overhead that can beat a lot of things if timed correctly. Sure, you might have to work without an OTG in some cases, but at that point Big Band will be right in your face. I'd vouch for giving it projectile armor instead of normal armor, but as it is Big Band is getting some well-deserved buffs.
NOW the argument is valid.. Never even realized as i play Val and Robo so I'm almost never on the ground to begin with.. But yeah all of you guys are so right maybe projectile armor only...
 
Increasing hit stun on Parasoul's s.LP would make it so s.lp > f.mp is no longer a reset. It is by 1f iirc.
 
My problem with giant step having armor is that it doesn't only beat zoners. It's a fairly large overhead, unblockable from a distance, and can lead into a combo if close enough, on top of having a hit of armor now that can be used against any character. BB still has parries and well placed brass knuckle to deal with zoners. He really doesn't really need the extra hit of armor IMO.
 
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Yeah, I agree he doesn't need the armor, but instead we're gonna try shortened startup and recovery.
I...don't really think he's free to zoners? Just Robo H beam. :^P
 
KTFS said:
Suggestion: Now that Big Band's H Giant Step has armor, is it possible to add some visuals to differ from L and M Step?
it's really going to help if I can tell if I'm going to hit Big Band or hit his armor.
Even without the armor I think it would be good to have some sort of tell since H Step has the earthquake too.

let me guess, it already exists and I'm blind
 
missingno said:
Even without the armor I think it would be good to have some sort of tell since H Step has the earthquake too.
let me guess, it already exists and I'm blind
There's intentionally not a tell, because that way you can use the LK version to make people jump.
(Based on Potemkin 6K and Slidehead.)
 
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at this point in the game, would there be any significant fuckery from adding spiral/dnb link buffer to tear shot. admittedly this is selfish, and i want to 6HP shot 5MP against wider chars more often than i do

also what if bella 5MP property on 6HP
 
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yes please do that or somethinfg for napalm shot buffer
 
Speaking of the princess, is her bike super supposed to do like 400 dmg at max scaling too? I actually forgot the actual amount, sorry, but I remember it not doing much more than sniper. It's a good super for chip/reversal purposes, but it'd be nice to have a slightly better damage ender in exchange for not getting the sniper shot set ups.

My Parasoul is kinda mediocre in the current meta so maybe there's more to that super than what I know though.
 
dekillsage said:
Speaking of the princess, is her bike super supposed to do like 400 dmg at max scaling too? I actually forgot the actual amount, sorry, but I remember it not doing much more than sniper. It's a good super for chip/reversal purposes, but it'd be nice to have a slightly better damage ender in exchange for not getting the sniper shot set ups.

My Parasoul is kinda mediocre in the current meta so maybe there's more to that super than what I know though.
- Increase minimum scaled damage on Motor Brigade from ~500 to ~1000. (me)

Already in the beta version since first patch.

Here's some cool Bike ender damage
 
So to add on from what liam said.

Straight up i do think L shot should get more buffer for the link.
Reason being is that if a parasoul places the tear correctly and detonates it with a normal then the combo is now being watched.

Problem being is that to make sure everything is snug and ready to go. you are using c.lk or s.lk s.mk s.hp s.hp which brings you closer and because it brings you closer you want to use s.lp s.mp. by this point you used up your buttons.

an even more prevalent issue is the combo that allows for corner carry

c.lk s.mk s.hp s.hp l shot, s.mp(this is the problem.) b.hk H egret.

The issue with this is that its a 2f or 1f link to do this rather useful combo. This is alleviated by doing s.lp s.mp b.hk right? nope. this is notoriously dropped on bella(ESPECIALLY) and others after a certain distance. the thing is, i look at osiris and dnb loops and i think, "why not soul?"

another thing about soul is M egret. if it could absorb more till he actually jumps up or traveled farther for a meatshield that would be interesting to experiment.
 
whoa I guess I must have totally not seen it? That's good, I'm glad she got that. 1k though that's surprising.
 
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I don't want to add a buffer after Tear Shot.
Comparing characters that are vastly different is dangerous, because it's not usually as favorable when you compare the entirety of them. :^P
L Shot at point blank is +11. s.LP is 7f, that gives a 3f window; s.LK is 8f, that gives a 2f window; and each additional frame the tear travels gives another frame of leniency, and you are generally not hitting at point blank, you're hitting after 1-2f of travel minimum, sometimes 3-5f. s.MP is a 1f link at point blank but you have other options that work, and are as lenient as Eliza or Squigly even with a buffer. If you choose to do s.MP you are going for a harder combo. Eliza and Squigly have no M options to link after Spiral/DnB, and those moves have no way to give them extra frame advantage, and Parasoul's LP reaches hella far, so if you think "Why not Soul?" then I'd like to point out that if I compared the characters after knowing all that...what if I added the buffer for LP/LK and also made it impossible to link M at 3-4f of travel...? Then they're really all the same.

Alternatively, what if I added the buffer for every button but it went from +2 on block at point blank to -4 or -6 or even -8 (because you're generally not hitting at point blank, again)? That also seems fair.

Cadenza said:
is l step, practically an overhead tho?
Huh?
I meant, you can do L Step from far away to force them to jump and recover faster. It's useful, just like Pot's 6K is.
L Step is an 18f overhead. So is Pot's 6K. I'm really not sure what you meant here.

dekillsage said:
whoa I guess I must have totally not seen it? That's good, I'm glad she got that. 1k though that's surprising.
1k is the de facto basic minimum for a Lv1 that doesn't cause hard knockdown (or in some cases when it's their less-damaging super, like Eliza, even when it does).
 
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@Mike_Z would you consider adjusting Parasoul's OTG hurtbox? Stuff that works on every other character like Double OTG c.LK s.MK is really inconsistent on Parasoul.
 
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still waiting for marie bugfixes
 
mcpeanuts said:
@Mike_Z would you consider adjusting Parasoul's OTG hurtbox? Stuff that works on every other character like Double OTG c.LK s.MK is really inconsistent on Parasoul.

wasnt this already fixed or i am reading wrong?
''Increase the height of Parasoul, Fortune, Robo-Fortune, Squigly, Peacock, Filia/Fukua, and other applicable characters’ on-the-ground hitboxes so that things which OTG most characters will also OTG those characters (Cerebella c.MP, etc) reliably, even when they are OTG’d while flat on the floor before bouncing up.''
 
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Mike_Z said:
Ground scalpels up close is -31. Air scalpels up close can be as little as -6. I hope that answers your question as to why air scalpels aren't also fully invincible though startup. :^P
Yeah, I totally understand. Hell, I'm even ok with all projectile supers having no invul frames at all.
It just bothered me that the scalpels showed up and just go right through.
Now that I realized it's frame perfect, I'm going to be less salty when it happens.
Thank you
 
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Receita Federal said:
wasnt this already fixed or i am reading wrong?
''Increase the height of Parasoul, Fortune, Robo-Fortune, Squigly, Peacock, Filia/Fukua, and other applicable characters’ on-the-ground hitboxes so that things which OTG most characters will also OTG those characters (Cerebella c.MP, etc) reliably, even when they are OTG’d while flat on the floor before bouncing up.''
Can't believe Mike went back in time and added my change after I asked, what a guy
 
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Mike_Z said:
1k is the de facto basic minimum for a Lv1 that doesn't cause hard knockdown (or in some cases when it's their less-damaging super, like Eliza, even when it does).

Maybe I'm surprised cuz doubles car got a buff in damage and still doesn't do 1k (does like 970 I think????) so I was like whoa 1k supers do exist xDDDD
 
mcpeanuts said:
Can't believe Mike went back in time and added my change after I asked, what a guy

Uhh, pls go test it out on the beta version to make sure it's OK now. It's what the beta's for!
 
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render said:
Uhh, pls go test it out on the beta version to make sure it's OK now. It's what the beta's for!
I will when I get home
 
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For training mode would it be possible to add a number on attack data showing how much meter you have or how much you build during a combo?
 
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Mike_Z said:
you have other options that work, and are as lenient as Eliza or Squigly even with a buffer.
Squigly's Drag N Bite link is 5F + a buffer, which seems to be about six frames from my testing, maybe more or one less.
So the sLP link is something like 11F.
sLK is 9F.

Eliza's is 4F to sLP from Spiral.
3F to sLK, which leads to 11F and 10F if it's the same buffer used on DnB.

So both of those are MORE lenient than Parasoul's even without a buffer, and then they become don't even have to look at the screen easy with the buffer.

The bolded sentence in your quote, I can only assume you mean from a non point blank hit which is midscreen or something?

Any time Parasoul takes the opponent to the corner or plays against a character with hitboxes like Double midscreen, she is expected to be making 2F links into sLK (Because you'd be putting sLP on watch early).
Mike_Z said:
Alternatively, what if I added the buffer for every button but it went from +2 on block at point blank to -4 or -6 or even -8 (because you're generally not hitting at point blank, again)? That also seems fair.
I guess I better respond to this so it doesn't happen.

This puts her overhead at -2 instead of +2. (You'd have to use L Egret instead of Shot now, or else you're -4/6/8)
A huge hit to her pressure game.

Also I think this assumption that you're not hitting often at point blank isn't true.
If you're in the corner you'll be hitting at point blank on block. -4/6/8
If you're trying to stop your block string short with shot anywhere it's going to hit at point blank on block. -4/6/8

If that's jab punishable.... Lol.

I've tried for this change in the past several times and I know it's not happening, but I just wanted to make sure that you know "It's not all the time" does not mean that Parasoul is not required to hit 2F links in her Bread N Butter combos where she has no more options.

Eliza and Squigly can go for 9F+ links when they feel like it for added damage on their combos / combo spacing corrections / and Undizzy shaving.
Which I agree does not make them comparable.
They have different purposes.
 
@Mike_Z i was implying lk teleport is usless, i failed at that. We were having a discussion at the discord channel about useless specials.

So i asked you that because i find jumping and other teleports a better option against zoning and aproach.

So the request i wanted to make was, could we experiment with some buff for lk teleport? Maybe it being a hit but it wouldnt let you combo after it.
 
Liam said:
Parasoul is [...] required to hit 2F links in her Bread N Butter combos where she has no more options.
She is not required to do that, because that is not what BnB means. BnB MEANS EASY, universal, works off most/all starters, and not optimized but decent damage. If it's hard, it's not a BnB. "The combo I do all the time as a good player" is not usually a BnB. Really difficult optimal things are not BnBs.

Liam said:
A huge hit to her pressure game.
Please make my character better this way because I feel it is unfair. Please do not make my character worse in any way as a result.
???
C'mon, man.

Also you ignored the other suggestion, which I feel is more reasonable if characters are going to be compared*. Although that would eliminate close tear into s.MP entirely, it would put far tears into s.MP at [buffer time]f links.

-4 at worst wouldn't be Jab punishable, but would be SSJ-able, and is still a huge hit to her pressure game.

ninja-nutria said:
So the request i wanted to make was, could we experiment with some buff for lk teleport? Maybe it being a hit but it wouldnt let you combo after it.
Not sure Peacock needs buffs...? Not sure I want to give her a fullscreen-anywhere-to-up-close...hit...not to mention what that does to the other teleports when one of them is a thing you have to block...


*what I really meant was, stop comparing the characters this way because it doesn't really work. :^)
 
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Mike_Z said:
She is not required to do that, because that is not what BnB means. BnB MEANS EASY, universal, works off most/all starters, and not optimized but decent damage. If it's hard, it's not a BnB. "The combo I do all the time as a good player" is not usually a BnB. Really difficult optimal things are not BnBs.
I said BnB because I meant BnB.
Unless you are thinking String > Launcher (Which doesn't work at mid / far range) ABC JHP land ABC sHK Scope which uses no Napalm Shots then sure.
If using her extremely basic special then getting a combo after it is advanced and not for bad players then okay...?

Mike_Z said:
Please make my character better this way because I feel it is unfair. Please do not make my character worse in any way as a result.
???
C'mon, man.
???

She doesn't do anything new.
She does the same things she was doing before but she doesn't die for it.

And YES.
Please do not think making this characters completely basic special that is one of her absolute key tools, completely garbage in pressure, is a decent trade off for easier combos.

You suggested one change, I responded to it with my thoughts because I did not want it.
Don't c'mon man me lol.

To respond to the other change.
Parasoul is already used to doing 2F links with sLK/cLK.
Far sMP is 2F, and moving it to extreme buffer period but removing the option of close sMP when you need it is also something I'm not a fan of and I don't know if other people want it.
 
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cloudKing211 said:
Is midscreen tear to s.lp a 2 to 3 frame link?
Far range tear is not 3F.
Close range tear sLP is 3F.

Close range tear LK is 2F

Close range tear MP is 1F.
 
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