• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Make Counter Hit sweeps have a ceiling bounce property.

Seriously though, I don't think that just because something doesn't have great and obvious and easy to use benefits means that it needs to get those things.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gllt, Killjoy, Icky and 1 other person
The math is bad on the tech chase. Use it if you like of course. But not rolling because of undizzy at midscreen, is like not reversaling because someone might block. Its a gamble.


But I'd rather make my opponent make a really difficult read on my tech than give them an untechable knockdown that will still give them around 5k damage at max undizzy and much more if they dhc to level 1 or 3.

The math on midscreen tech chase is like 25/25/25/25 which are odds that i as a defender will go for everytime, and i as an offender will never allow my opponent to have if i can help it.
 
Well then don't use it midscreen? Not every move needs immediate practical use, but sure experiment with it. Man these filia counter hit sweeps gonna be good
 
Idk like nobody uses sweeps at all during neutral. So maybe getting a hard knockdown on counter hit could provide more uses. Its like one of the most least used move across the cast
 
SonicFox5000 said:
Idk like nobody uses sweeps at all during neutral. So maybe getting a hard knockdown on counter hit could provide more uses. Its like one of the most least used move across the cast
Except big band or against big band.

I don't believe this certain aspect needs a change tbh. and why are we talking about tech chases when at midscreen they're not exactly amazing unless you got one of the high mobility characters? of course its very viable in the corner but midscreen? what you gonna do? tech chase? with who? Bella? i guess? PW? i guess you could with all characters now that i think about it, but this is gonna be a gamble much more risky than resets in that regard.

Atleast resets you can control how people press buttons and such and you give out a good amount of pressure. tech chases you have to guess which way they tech and then provide a mixup and when you tech chase you're committed to a direction you think they will tech. Its not bad though.

TL;DR; I don't believe in the presence of skullgirls we need to make sweeps more relevant just because it gets overshadowed by some other aspects of the game.
 
SonicFox5000 said:
Idk like nobody uses sweeps at all during neutral. So maybe getting a hard knockdown on counter hit could provide more uses. Its like one of the most least used move across the cast
A large part of that is that it's a heavy.
How many characters really use sHK in Neutral? Valentine (and Fukua if you count whiffcancels).
sHP and cHP have a bit more widespread use, but still aren't really buttons that most of the cast presses a lot during the neutral game.

Sweeps are Armorbreakers (useful!) which present you with a low option at a distance / point in a chain where one otherwise wouldn't have one, eg:
- BB sweeps at midrange, where his opponents just standblock to avoid both Atrain and GStep
- Parasoul can cLK cMK cHK to hit people who hold back/upback after the cMK to avoid the 4HK overhead
- Bella cHK will become more useful now that 6HP can be upbacked to avoid people just jumping away from MGR at midrange
Sure, none of these lead to ton of damage, but that's why Sweeps deal 1200+; people can't just go and keep eating those over and over either.

Aside from that, Sweeps often times have a bonus component that makes them useful even if you don't plan to hit with them
- Peacock Sweep is crucial now as a mobility option
- Eliza uses Sweep xx DP to get through projectile hell
- Filia/Fukua can use cHK whiffcancels to get into position for things (xx Updo / xx Dart)
- Parasoul can cHK as the best antiair in the game (#1 tech!!)

I really don't feel they're half as weak as you think they are
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mcpeanuts
If you have a two hit sweep and a good assist you can convert from the first hit (of sweep) since it doesn't immediately count as a sweep. You just gotta be fast enough. Yay fortune!
 
Stuff said:
If you have a two hit sweep and a good assist you can convert from the first hit (of sweep) since it doesn't immediately count as a sweep. You just gotta be fast enough. Yay fortune!
You can combo after her sweep with fiber
 
yeah but I'm thinking for other characters that have a two hit sweep (Although I'm not aware of any 'cept maybe val)
(it's also much safer the way I want to do it on block)
edit: and I guess adding an assist to L fiber makes it safe too now that I think of it
 
So, if you get a hard knockdown on counterhit sweep, won't that make Eliza suuuuuper good vs peacock and maybe fukua?
 
IsaVulpes said:
- Parasoul can cLK cMK cHK to hit people who hold back/upback after the cMK to avoid the 4HK overhead
You can also cr.lk, cr.mk xx napalm quake + assist to get the same effect + a combo if it hits. I NEVER have seen anyone do that though
 
Icky said:
You can also cr.lk, cr.mk xx napalm quake + assist to get the same effect + a combo if it hits. I NEVER have seen anyone do that though
ayyy you're about to see it soon
 
dekillsage said:
ayyy you're about to see it soon
Yo, are you for real? Did you not know about that? D: I "came up with" that tech in September 2013 but was too bad to ever properly do it so I just told better Parasouls about it...who never used it :(
 
I run parasoul on anchor, i never get the option
 
Icky said:
Yo, are you for real? Did you not know about that? D: I "came up with" that tech in September 2013 but was too bad to ever properly do it so I just told better Parasouls about it...who never used it :(

You told me about it last year before I played parasoul so I forgot. But I'm switching teams and my new team should be able to use this much better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Icky
I PM'd Mike about this but I suppose I should copy/paste it here to encourage discussion.

After finally getting to experiment with the changes in the beta in matches, I think that the new Tremolo is a bit much. Giving her a tracking low that has enough pushback to let you charge another stance risk free, as well as making it projectile invulnerable makes her zoning a little too strong, in my opinion. Also, it gives her a mixup tool in 6hp startup cancelled into tremelo which she didn't really need, as her mixup is ridiculous enough as is.

I feel like making it a mid again, taking away the projectile invulnerability, or reducing the pushback on it are all viable balancing options, because having all 3 of those makes matchups like Big Band vs. Squigly nighunwinnable. It was extremely fun touse, but I think it's just too good.
 
Icky said:
You can also cr.lk, cr.mk xx napalm quake + assist to get the same effect + a combo if it hits. I NEVER have seen anyone do that though
You can also just cLK cMK, cLK. :p This was not meant to be an exhaustive list etc

But yeah, Quake could use some users
Too bad it doesn't work with my assists anymore
Maybe I can do Quake+Assist xx Bikes or somesuch
 
Yaya said:
I PM'd Mike about this but I suppose I should copy/paste it here to encourage discussion.

After finally getting to experiment with the changes in the beta in matches, I think that the new Tremolo is a bit much. Giving her a tracking low that has enough pushback to let you charge another stance risk free, as well as making it projectile invulnerable makes her zoning a little too strong, in my opinion. Also, it gives her a mixup tool in 6hp startup cancelled into tremelo which she didn't really need, as her mixup is ridiculous enough as is.

I feel like making it a mid again, taking away the projectile invulnerability, or reducing the pushback on it are all viable balancing options, because having all 3 of those makes matchups like Big Band vs. Squigly nighunwinnable. It was extremely fun touse, but I think it's just too good.

After Tremolo it takes another 60 frames to get another stance charge. They've got 65 frames to move forward before you can do another one. That's more than enough for emergency break into super jump forward which is pretty much the entire screen distance.

Or there's just the threat of Giant Step while she's charging to make her interupt her charge to jump.

I mean, I'm sure its annoying but "neigh unwinnable" is a massive exaggeration.
 
cloudKing211 said:
Think about it like tech chasing in smash bros, just off of sweep. They have 3 options: tech in either direction or take knockdown. Now a tech will take away what appears to be half of currently built undizzy. This a tradeoff for being to act sooner. However, keep in mind that you still have to respect a mixup on a correctly read chase and the benefit for your opponent is greater due to less undizzy. Also blockable post flash would still happen if you are hit with a full combo into sweep, since after the tech you 50% undizzy, so your opponents mixup is still safer than it used to. So either option is a risk your opponent takes, the only downside is that it gives your opponent options, and the tech chase is a gamble in itself. Higher risk, higher reward.
Not teching a knockdown in smash allows the opponent to combo into attacks they shouldn't be able to, just like in SG. It's ALWAYS better to tech a knockdown ASAP in smash. In fact, not teching puts you at risk of a forced stand up in melee, jab locks in in brawl, and damage + followup in smash 4.

I was making the point that you force yourself into a situation where you pretty much HAVE to take a 50/50 with the inability to use a post-flash unblockable super. Teching does only remove half undizzy, but the opponent usually has to guess which direction you will tech, assuming they don't have a setup that covers both options.
 
Last edited:
I use sweeps at neutral in situations you think you'll trade, because you get a big damage hit and a knockdown, the same reasons people use them in Marvel 2. It's not often but it's not never either.
They are also good at the end of blockstrings as staggered final hits.
I do not at all like the idea of untechable knockdown from a low big poke as a trade, which is precisely why they work the way they do in the Versus games also.

@SonicFox5000 "the community doesn't do X" is still not a good argument for X being bad in this community. Yet. <3
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SonicFox and gllt
I actually used Peacock's sweep quite a bit during my blockstrings and then cancel into L george if they didn't get hit by the sweep (As people often seem to stop blocking when I go for delayed c.hks). Not sure if it's still a good option now that george is minus but hey yeah I did use sweep.
 
Swiftfox-Dash said:
I actually used Peacock's sweep quite a bit during my blockstrings and then cancel into L george if they didn't get hit by the sweep (As people often seem to stop blocking when I go for delayed c.hks). Not sure if it's still a good option now that george is minus but hey yeah I did use sweep.
"Minus" is not "punishable" agh.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chip Blaster
Daily reminder that Bella's c.hk is 0f on block.
 
And hits at like further than halfscreen away.
 
I didn't say it was punishable, it's just that I'm not fond being Peacock and -2 in my opponents face =p
 
  • Like
Reactions: mcpeanuts
Colossi said:
Daily reminder that Bella's c.hk is 0f on block.
Most characters can make their sweeps safe too. Double and Filia should be getting that in the next patch, which I believe would mean everyone would have safe sweeps for no meter.
 
Filia's c.HK > fake ringlet is punishable by a lot of things, even at max range. It's only really safe if they block the very last bit of it.

Beowulf also doesn't have anything safe once he goes to do a c.HK.

Not sure about Fukua but I assume canceling into LK drill makes its safe?
 
-4 is still pretty much unpunishable except for supers.
 
Colossi said:
Val's is -18f on block, @Zidiane.
Whoops, misread the frame data. Anyway, Val's c.hk has 17f of blockstun. You can on block cancel into your 17f startup lk bypass, which hits on the first frame after blockstun (so they have 1f to input something, unless there's a buffer window, I don't know if there is), and end up -4. Only punishable by 2 supers in the game I think. Should have made it clearer, but this is what I meant, most characters can cancel into something to make their sweep pretty safe (Peacock's c.hk into george is +2 I believe).
 
George is -1 now I think. Still unpunishable, but not quite as good.
 
RemiKz said:
Filia's c.HK > fake ringlet is punishable by a lot of things, even at max range. It's only really safe if they block the very last bit of it.

Beowulf also doesn't have anything safe once he goes to do a c.HK.
I thought Filia was supposed to be getting something that gave her a safe block string?

I don't consider unfinished characters in any balance discussions. Everything's "may not resemble final product" until he hits retail as far as I'm concerned, or at least until all his art and voice work is done.

Not addressing quoted post: Val has a 1f frame trap that's -4 on block off c.hk, and I think Big Band is also not great with c.hk into lp brass being -6 on block. Filia may or may not have a safe block string thing coming. Anyone else have not-perfectly-safe sweep options? I consider Fukua pretty safe, she only fears Big Band's SSJ.

Nap1400 said:
George is -1 now I think. Still unpunishable, but not quite as good.
Parasoul's c.hk light tear is +2 (in retail). Does she win the c.hk contest?
 
Last edited:
Zidiane said:
Parasoul's c.hk light tear is +2 (in retail). Does she win the c.hk contest?

sweep stancel is at least +6
 
Krackatoa said:
Device lister during controller select is a godsend. Thank you, @Mike_Z
Fun Fact: My webcam is a game controller.
It accepts all devices in the categories that any game controller I've encountered reports itself, this includes categories that are mostly used for cameras or my Razer Blade's Sentient Tactile Keys or whatever. Better safe than sorry.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back