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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

I myself don't notice the dj change one bit. Which makes me inclined to keep it.
(Hilary hates it, sold!)
Though there was also a "doublejump puts you in CH so you can't tech airthrows" rather than locking assist calls thing I was gonna test. But been too busy.

zeknife said:
I'll go ahead and shamelessly quote myself because I'm curious about this
Kanchou becomes more useful as a tool, I'm fine with it.
zeknife said:
Also, the smaller explosions from instant airtoss > normal still use the full size visual explosion effect which looks a bit confusing
They are scaled, unless you found a bug. Vid?

mcpeanuts said:
If this change stays would there be any consideration for stuff like Filia air L Hairball, which lets you get to double jump height without using a double jump?
She can't block during it or go backward.

Stuff said:
EDIT: I was told I could never do what I crossed out. Although I coulda sworn I've done this before. Maybe I'm confusing this for something else.
After being reset in the air you're in superjump mode so you aren't able to call assists at all.
 
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Fuzzy_Snugs said:
I really dislike the double jump change
Bit_Strife said:
Glad I'm not the only one who isn't a fan of it.

*looks at mains* I can see why yall don't like it. All double jump characters.

Edit: I usually go solo parasoul but when i do use a double jumper i rarely called assists from a double jump anyway. I usually don't want the assist starting my combos cause of the scaling.
 
mcpeanuts said:
If this change stays would there be any consideration for stuff like Filia air L Hairball, which lets you get to double jump height without using a double jump?
It's not just a height thing but also about
uh
"committing"

- Superjumping makes you go high/far and has your attacks turn around on crossup, but doesn't allow you to call assist and going high/far also means that the opponent has an easy time reacting
- Airdashing gives you access to really fast overheads and quick horizontal speed, but you can't block during it (nor can you cancel it into block, but only into further unsafe attacks)
- Same thing with various other air mobility options such as Filia LK.Airball - which only allows you to go forward and doesn't allow you to block

Doublejumping makes you go high/far while being able to adjust midair depending on what is going on (jumpforward DJ-back ; jumpback DJ-forward, etc), while being able to block during it, while also being the best mobility option to get out of air resets, ..

With assist lockout on them, if you compare them to superjumping, they gain the ability to call assist at height (jump - assistcall - doublejump; vs SJs where you have to call assist on the ground) as well as allowing you to adjust your midair movement - at the cost of being slower and not having attacks turn around on crossup.

Seems to me like more of a decision now; while SJs were previously sort-of.. overshadowed.
 
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Tank said:
*looks at mains* I can see why yall don't like it. All double jump characters.

Well, duh? Of course it won't effect people who don't play double jump capable characters, Sherlock.
 
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gllt said:
Well, duh? Of course it won't effect people who don't play double jump capable characters, Sherlock.

It does effect people who don't play double jump characters cause i still have to fight against a double jump character.
And I think i'm more of a Watson.
 
I think it's good to keep in mind that character choice affects peoples view of the change.

I know there are a lot of good Val/Squigly players who don't like the change. A lot of the players who are indifferent about it or in favor of it may feel that way because they play characters who don't have double jumps, or at least don't have characters who tend to use more height in their neutral.

I play 3 double jump characters and other than Squigly vs Peacock being harder I like the change.
 
Dolfinh said:
I think it's good to keep in mind that character choice affects peoples view of the change.

I know there are a lot of good Val/Squigly players who don't like the change. A lot of the players who are indifferent about it or in favor of it may feel that way because they play characters who don't have double jumps, or at least don't have characters who tend to use more height in their neutral.


This is true, but it isnt a standalone fact, i dont think. I play lots of double jumpers and some charatcers that dont have double jump. The characters i play at a somewhat competent level are painwheel, double, parasoul, peacock, bigband, and im planning on picking up fukua and robo fortune respectively because both have counterpicking attributes that i really want for my team.

Big band himself has2 modes of play at neutral, the turtle band waiting to engineer a psychic a train or unblockable or brass on your approach, or a jumpy band that uses dash jump jlk for air to air and offense, and double jump spam for stalling and pushing the opponent into the corner or gaining height priority to use j.lk on its way down.


Im a jumpy band, it suits me better and i play band second on most teams. I have felt the double jump nerf and i personally really like it.


I think those that dont like it are the ones that have gotten used to using it and dont want to give that use up. Clarencemages link to sirlins "cocaine logic" very accurately describes the situation, from my point of view.
 
I don't particularly have a problem with the change, but could there be a way to allow the assist call only while rising/falling from a double jump? Idk what would be better overall, but this might remedy the whole squigly/val player "dilemma" while still limiting abuse of vertical play.
 
Mike_Z said:
@Negus Eyoel
@Hilary

Are you against it specifically because it affects your own play?

@Jason
You're assuming it ain't broke. If you assume it am broke, would you keep it?

I dislike it because I don't think it's a thing the game needs, nor do I think it makes the game better or fun(which I understand is subjective). I just think that people haven't truly adjusted to the new preblock changes yet. As a result up back at the moment is very good, people have a hard time getting their offense started, and this change was a knee jerk reaction result of that.
 
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I imagine that the issue would still be there since you could call it roughly at the apex of the jump.

A work around would be a height cap (can't call assists above some height whether you are flying, double jumping, or super jumping), but that seems like a duct tape solution.

I do hate that the change buffs Peacock as I fucking hate her. But I do love that it buffs PW. I'm actually pretty indifferent to it though.
 
Negus Eyoel said:
I just think that people haven't truly adjusted to the new preblock changes yet.

It has been several months since preblock changes hit beta. That's enough time to adjust strategies, get over initial learning humps, and learn to play the "new" way better. Doublejump->assist call was proving far too brainlessly strong an option with no really convincing counters, that naturally rose to the top of many neutral game options.

Read my essay post a few pages back if you want a breakdown of how and why it has very little risk, pretty good reward, and too many avenues of counterplay for how low-commital an option it is. If you have a sufficient answer for beating doublejump+assist call consistently, one that I haven't mentioned, then by all means share it with us.
 
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I like the change because it encourages me to think about what I want to accomplish out of risking a jump, and what i've prepared in my team as a whole. It also eliminates the "What is the mix-up once this character jumps so far away from me the camera starts to shift in their favor" issue

I can be assured I can challenge just the character in the air if they don't call an assist and they double jump, which lets me anti-air the taste out yo mouf.

The way I see it is that you can also just delay your jump if you intend to go in and are confident your assist will force your opponent to react (or get hit).

Yeah
 
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ClarenceMage said:
Doublejump->assist call was proving far too brainlessly strong an option with no really convincing counters, that naturally rose to the top of many neutral game options.
I'm just gonna say, I still disagree with this.

I am okay with the doublejump change for other reasons, but I think your view is incorrect. :^)
 
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ClarenceMage said:
It has been several months since preblock changes hit beta. That's enough time to adjust strategies, get over initial learning humps, and learn to play the "new" way better. Doublejump->assist call was proving far too brainlessly strong an option with no really convincing counters, that naturally rose to the top of many neutral game options.

Read my essay post a few pages back if you want a breakdown of how and why it has very little risk, pretty good reward, and too many avenues of counterplay for how low-commital an option it is. If you have a sufficient answer for beating doublejump+assist call consistently, one that I haven't mentioned, then by all means share it with us.

Now that I've taken the time to read your essay, I see a couple things in there I disagree with. For one thing it just seems like you really want a super hard punish for double jump call assist, and the current perfectly viable ways to fight it that you actually listed. You list gaining ground and counter calling assists as weak options when that's definitely not the case. You also forget the fact that up backing means putting yourself more into the corner, where the closer you are to there the more likely that you're going to get double snapped and have your assist killed. I will not deny that double jump call assist is a very good option but i strongly disagree with the idea that it's brain dead or that it's too good.
 
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There is no gaining ground against the pattern in a rote way. Jump backwards> double jump forward, results in no loss of space.


Also, think about backdashes:


You cant block during backdashes even though "they corner you" for using them. And while in a backdash you can be high/low'd or even crossed up. In the air you cannot be high/low'd and positioning gained is hard to airthrow for non double jumpers and double jumpers alike.

Winning by backing the opponent into the corner might be good if one could actually do that, but this pattern says no. Jumpback land... Yeah, you can corner that, backdash... You can corner that, its very hard to corner a double jumper for spamming double jump. This was never an issue before the upback change because you could punish double jumping with a strong jumpin situation as the fouble jumper landed. Now... You basically cant.
 
You can still punish the double jumper by y'know hitting the assist and pressuring them as they land by being on the ground.
The fact that you can't keep them grounded when you jump does not magically eliminate the other options.

The thing I like about not being able to call assists when you doublejump has to do with both height (why you can't do it when superjumping) and changing your air trajectory while remaining safe and being able to assist. IDGAF about the air preblock bit, I think that whole line of thought is bunk.
 
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Can we give s. hp more armor or make it come out faster for Robo? I feel like as her only safe option since she has no invincible startups, I still get punished for throwing it out as a defensive tactic either because they break armor due to it coming out slow
 
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Negus Eyoel said:
I dislike it because I don't think it's a thing the game needs, nor do I think it makes the game better or fun(which I understand is subjective). I just think that people haven't truly adjusted to the new preblock changes yet. As a result up back at the moment is very good, people have a hard time getting their offense started, and this change was a knee jerk reaction result of that.
Haven't been in this thread in a while but I side with Negus on every comment he's made in the past week. Especially this one. I would love dj assist to come back and I would like to see the braindead people beat me with it

Izzmo said:
Can we wait for Robo to have all of her tools before asking for things she'll probably be ok without anyway.
Im pretty sure Mike already stated she will be getting no invincible moves and that is why he gave s. HP armor for one hit. I just think it's not enough
 
Mike_Z said:
@Jason
You're assuming it ain't broke. If you assume it am broke, would you keep it?

If there is a problem that needs fixing, which I'm not convinced there is, I'd be ok with keeping it.

I'm not viciously opposed to the change it just seems unnecessary to me.
 
MegamanDS said:
Im pretty sure Mike already stated she will be getting no invincible moves and that is why he gave s. HP armor for one hit. I just think it's not enough
Remember how Iron Man and Magneto and Storm have no invincible moves and nothing with armor?
 
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MegamanDS said:
Im pretty sure Mike already stated she will be getting no invincible moves and that is why he gave s. HP armor for one hit. I just think it's not enough
Yes, he did say that iirc. I'm not certain whether it was also including supers but I don't feel that matters much anyway. She's still missing things is the issue. Her zoning/neutral might become incredibly oppressive with whatever the heads are good for or a different special/mechanic/super she might be getting we know nothing about yet. It's totally fine if she has garbage defense as long as she has tools to avoid having to rely on it. She might even be getting a really fast non-invincible super your supposed to cancel into from s.HP. Who knows? We certainly don't.

She's not done, so any sort of balance call is still too early.
 
My favourite thing about Robo Fortune being the last DLC character is that when she's done I will no longer have to read balance suggestions for characters that are two weeks old and not even remotely finished.
 
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ClarenceMage said:
My favourite thing about Robo Fortune being the last DLC character is that when she's done I will no longer have to read balance suggestions for characters that are two weeks old and not even remotely finished.
Mike may stop listening...

But we'll never stop.
 
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Mike_Z said:
Remember how Iron Man and Magneto and Storm have no invincible moves and nothing with armor?
are you saying that robo may turn into one of those 3? Don't tease me
 
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Since the issue with double jump assist calls is hitting SJ height and calling assists, is it possible to set a height limiter on when you can call assists instead?
 
Wouldn't that be a bit confusing, though? At the moment, you always know your available options as you can remember "ok, I super/double jumped, so I can't call an assist here". With a limiter it would be more "hm, I hope I'm not 1 pixel above the set no-assist height yet/still".
 
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I haven't set up SG on Steam yet to help with the beta, but FWIW in my opinion the double jump change makes sense logically.

p.s. Loving what I've seen for the 2 unreleased new characters! All these DLC characters are like candy to me, so much so that I am totally going to main them XD
 
Soviet voice pack is BEST
 
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genuine question here does the train stage cause motion sickness for anyone ?
 
PandaGirlBingo said:
genuine question here does the train stage cause motion sickness for anyone ?
The only thing it does for me is make it slightly harder to distinguish the height of a character when its going along the lake area. Not typically an issue outside of doing stuff like beowulf chairless c.HP and trying to link a hop j.MP.
 
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