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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Adeveis said:
Because of the change to j.lk, Filia now has a much faster close range overhead.
She totally does not.

j.HK = 4f jump startup + 13f attack startup = 17f.
IAD j.LK = 4f jump startup + 5f min airdash height + 1f dash startup + 7f attack startup = 17f. Waddayaknowaboutthat? Additionally, versus some crouching characters j.LK hits later on as it falls.

The key differences are:
- j.HK is just UF+button, which is both difficult to flub and you have a 4f window to get the fastest version, whereas IAD j.LK has a 1f "link" in it if you want the fastest timing...you can input the airdash during jump startup, but you can't input the LK until you're dashing. So in general you will probably get somewhere between the 1st and 3rd frame, which makes it on average slower.
- Dashjump j.HK could randomly cross up, j.LK can't anymore, without requiring me to mess with j.HK more.
- IAD j.LK is easier for opponents to read, compared to an instant j.HK. Same startup, but it really is easier to see it coming.
- After blocking IAD j.LK you no longer have to guess if it's going to be a double overhead or not, because you have used up your airdash and j.HK is no longer overhead.
- IAD j.LK leads to less damage, both because it does less damage as a starter and because you'll generally add j.HK to confirm, which adds scaling. The first 3 hits are pretty important.

IsaVulpes said:
Can we remove that btw / is there a reason it's there?
Cancels out of L don't have this "issue"; you can do L-M or L-H "asap"
Cancels out of M/H feel very weird with this delay in place, I think
Don't really get why you have to wait for the Bomb to appear onscreen to do the next one?
You don't have to wait for the bomb to be ONSCREEN, you have to wait for it to EXIST. If you cancelled earlier than that there'd be no bomb created. (They are not created on the first frame of the animation because otherwise you couldn't hit her out of it without the bomb coming out anyway.)
L bombs do have this "problem" since you can't cancel it until she tosses the bomb. That was in fact where I got the minimum number from.

@Raz @Zidiane
There was indeed a problem with their downed frames, and it's been fixed. All the old stuff works again.
 
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Mike_Z said:
You don't have to wait for the bomb to be ONSCREEN, you have to wait for it to EXIST. If you cancelled earlier than that there'd be no bomb created. (They are not created on the first frame of the animation because otherwise you couldn't hit her out of it without the bomb coming out anyway.)
L bombs do have this "problem" since you can't cancel it until she tosses the bomb. That was in fact where I got the minimum number from.
Oi, L.George actually DOES have that. You just have to be too fast for it to be any realistic, I guess.

Anyway my idea wasn't that you cancel the Bomb before it's created, but just to add some extra buffer to how soon that chaining works - meaning I press QCF-MK-LK asap and then it just does the MK->LK chain as soon as possible.
I just do the bombcancels with multiple QCFs because that always works, and the timing for "just chaining" feels weird to me - since there are three different possible timings, depending on which bomb one did first.

I'd much prefer if it just worked like normals do, where I press LP-MP and the MP will always come out as soon as it can, no matter when I pressed it (and it isn't cancelling the LP's startup either).
 
Cynical said:
Cancel into DP or MK servant.

You cannot combo off a sweep unless the opponent doesn't tech or you use said sweep as an otg

So for the purpose of utility, you mostly gain positioning.
 
The idea is you use the sweep to get into the range of one of your really good specials.

Learn the range of HP DP, and 2HKxx623HP to punish Peacock tossing damn near any projectile. Or, at closer range, a whiff-canceled 2HKxx236MK gives you a full combo on hit and puts you + on block.

Also, raw 236HK from a distance is shockingly good in this matchup. Especially if you use an assist to eat any ground bombs, to guarantee that you can get an easy 2MK conversion, but even if you can't, you've gained position.

I mean, shit, I complain about Peacock more than probably anyone else, and I don't think this matchup is very bad.
 
Matchup is actually good for Liza

Couch, Grab Thing, c.HK xx DP/Servant, general mobility, Sekhmet, etc whatever; everything is good or at least useful

If Peacock-Liza is a matchup so problematic for Eliza that she needs buffs, Peacock is busted
 
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IsaVulpes said:
Matchup is actually good for Liza

Couch, Grab Thing, c.HK xx DP, general mobility, Sekhmet, etc whatever; everything is good or at least useful

If Peacock-Liza is a matchup so problematic for Eliza that she needs buffs, Peacock is busted

The problem is even getting c.HK to come out because Eliza gets hit out of the startup against good projectile + assist patterns. Using sekhmet to get in seemed pretty futile and was generally a huge meter/life gamble. I don't feel like making c.HK a few frames faster or just having the projectile super armor activate sooner is a huge buff.
 
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You can always lock out the assist. That forces gaps into her game.
 
Especially because you can jump cancel HP DP, you can either c.HK->HP DP or just HP DP the assist and you are always safe.
 
Nap1400 said:
You can always lock out the assist. That forces gaps into her game.
That usually requires you risking a trade with a projectile that is backing it up, which can result in peacock hitting with argus and just resetting the assist timer.

Would having the projectile armor activate sooner into the start-up really be a significant buff?
 
Yes Peacock is strong at full screen and sometimes you have to work to do something against her

What does Peacock do against an Eliza in her face?

Can you tell me what like, every character not-Valentine does against Peacock, when a character whose entire toolset is anti-projectile-specials can't handle her :\
 
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RemiKz said:
Would having the projectile armor activate sooner into the start-up really be a significant buff?
React post-flash to scalpels or Fukua's fireball super or BB's level 3 or Parasoul's Lv3 with c.HK into full punish. Yes.
 
Mike_Z said:
React post-flash to scalpels or Fukua's fireball super or BB's level 3 or Parasoul's Lv3 with c.HK into full punish. Yes.

I wasn't suggesting to have the armor active on frame 1, I just said sooner into the startup. You also can't cancel into c.HK like you can a special/super unless I was hitting an assist so those things would only be hitting me if I was already not blocking.
 
Because Peacock > Month 1 Eliza strats
 
Mr. X said:
Because Peacock > Month 1 Eliza strats

She'll probably own 12 month Eliza strats. Peacock + Assist is oppressively good vs most of the cast.
 
I deal with Peacock/assist all the time with Cerebella by herself. Maybe it's not that she's really good and more that people don't know what to do and get frustrated easy.

Though that may be unfair to say, cause deflector is really good.
 
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cerebella does fine vs peacock
Its not a good mu imo, but its no parasoul/painwheel vs peacock etc etc
 
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Bella Peacock is like 5-5 imo, but I'm a scrub that got punched in the face by a solo Bella at EVO so that probably doesn't amount to much.
 
I win vs Pea-assist as solo-Wheel too. Occasionally I even win vs her as Squigly!!!

She's still really freaking good.

And her damage... @ninja-nutria ToD'd me for 3 bars 1v1 the other day...
 
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My issues have been:

Dashing towards peacock is hard because of how tall she is during her dash so you can't avoid things like HK George like other characters can with a dash so she constantly has to stop and crouch. Although she can airdash, she is often stopped from doing this because of HK george/SoiD/assist. Poking from a distance is futile more often than not due to expanded hurtboxes trading with stray bombs. HP DP has usually been my saving grace but stray bombs can cut short your punish. Couch/Grab/c.HK are used to get through her zoning, but each one has it's share of startup.

I didn't think I was being out of line by suggesting a slight startup speed up on c.HK or having the projectile armor active a bit sooner.
 
Man can't you do stuff like super jump air dash sek axe if they commit to throwing a bomb or something idk

like if its a bad mu rip in pepperoni it is what it is l m a o
 
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Spencer said:
I win vs Pea-assist as solo-Wheel too. Occasionally I even win vs her as Squigly!!!

She's still really freaking good.

And her damage... @ninja-nutria ToD'd me for 3 bars 1v1 the other day...
the lenny reset i guess though. without that the most i do i think is 8k-9k 1bar midscreen.
 
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Most characters aren't hitting 8k with 1 bar mid screen and no one to the best of my knowledge is hitting 9k!

But yeah, the Lenny reset. I was really damn impressed. All I remember is Lenny > Hole (missing the Lenny) > Argus > SOID > Argus... which alone is buku damage.
 
Cerebella can hit 9k midscreen on a lot of the cast for 1 bar.

Peacock, Fukua, Cerebella if they're good average at around 8k minimum with 1bar I believe.
 
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Cerebella hits almost the entire cast for 9.6k for one bar from at least 60% of the screen (only misses Big Band, and I can get 8.5k on him for one bar), and the rest of the places you can get 9k. In her least optimal positions she can still break 8k.
 
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Well, if anyone needs me, I'll falling short of 9k in the corner.

EDIT: wait, forgot that draugn punch got it's damage tweaked, can cross 9k with squigly in the corner with a punch charge.
 
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Speaking of eliza buffs,
can you make her boat just be able to knock band/bella out of their rush punches??
or make cr. mk's first hit a sweep so she has a proper way of dealing with it? Or make chair count as a sweep

just throwing out fun/pointless(not really) buffs
 
agent13 said:
Speaking of eliza buffs,
can you make her boat just be able to knock band/bella out of their rush punches??
or make cr. mk's first hit a sweep so she has a proper way of dealing with it? Or make chair count as a sweep

just throwing out fun/pointless(not really) buffs
Actually her boat already does that. It still contains sweep properties like everyone's c.hks
 
You know as Eliza you can DP one of Peacock's projectiles and SJ in, which is something nobody else can do. You also have a fullscreen command grab, which nobody else has.
And no, I don't really want to speed up the c.HK armor because there are other characters than Peacock in the game.

Moving on from this...
 
The boat beats the rush punches, but only if done preemptively. The startup is too long and the hurtbox matches completely with the hitbox, so I can never reactively use her sweep. Maybe a younger man can, but I'm too slow for that
 
lol just tried the iad j.lk change for Filia
this takes away its ability to be ambiguous so that's nice.

edit: Though it is making my usual Filia combo harder to do lol
j.mk hairball airdash j.mp is harder to land and then landing j.hk restand after that is even harder v-v
 
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There's some odd things happening on combos with j.mk and j.hp I think.. On the corner s.hp > j.hp > j.hk > xx Hairball > xx adc > j.mk > j.hp the last j.hp will not come out.

And that one reset midscreen... s.hp > iad > j.lp will whiff the j.lp. A huge delay before airdashing is needed now.
 
Yeah getting the spacing for that is really hard now. It can work, but sometimes even when j.hp hits it doesn't hit low enough to the ground to get the follow up you used to get. (the corner thing)
 
noaa said:
There's some odd things happening on combos with j.mk and j.hp I think.. On the corner s.hp > j.hp > j.hk > xx Hairball > xx adc > j.mk > j.hp the last j.hp will not come out.
You have to delay the start of your air chain a bit. The corner combo works just fine when you do that.
 
Swiftfox-Dash said:
Actually her boat already does that. It still contains sweep properties like everyone's c.hks

well yeah it can, but you can't really do on reaction like parasoul's/val's and ect
 
noaa said:
There's some odd things happening on combos with j.mk and j.hp I think.. On the corner s.hp > j.hp > j.hk > xx Hairball > xx adc > j.mk > j.hp the last j.hp will not come out.

And that one reset midscreen... s.hp > iad > j.lp will whiff the j.lp. A huge delay before airdashing is needed now.

The corner combo still works. Either wait until you are higher after the launcher or delay j.HK just slightly after j.HP
 
i think you just have to do the restand j.hk earlier than before. i do j.hk > h airball > j.mp(1 or 2 hits) > j.hk. where as in retail its about 3 or 4 hits of j.mp.
 
for the record mike i'm a painwheel player and i'm ok with reverse dp motion contrary to popular belief :P
 
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Negus Eyoel said:
for the record mike i'm a painwheel player and i'm ok with reverse dp motion contrary to popular belief :P
Noted! (Though until yesterday you were specifically self-declared not a player. :^)
My only gripe with it is that she doesn't need a damn DP motion.

@dekillsage
As mentioned, you can still do the corner ball j.MK j.HP combo, just delay a bit before the j.HK.
Anything that no longer works with New Filia is pretty much not going to work anymore because it's a result of the fixes she needed.

(How 'bout New Fukua anyone...)
 
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