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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Dime_x said:
I heard inuchiyo was a fukua player now and that "may" have something to do with it? Afterall we never ever see his or his friends play, but we know he's strong enough to have made top 8 at evo so he must have so e good amount of experience at the game and therefore some decent players to play against.
He wasn't top 8, he was top 16. And for what it's worth, I didn't see anything special about his Fukua when I beat him 2-0 in pools. Don't get me wrong, I was playing awful too, but his Fukua wasn't scary in the slightest.
 
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Out of curiosity, why do you think Fukua is bad? The only glaring weakness I see to her is having a reversal that is not grab invincible. She can still do an instant j.HK if she predicts a grab attempt and can cancel into fireball to keep herself mostly safe.

Her zoning is great with an assist and deals out damage with no effort from anywhere off practically any hit. Command grab leads into a full combo anywhere on screen with meter and no assist (something cerebella can't even do with diamond drop).

She's not the best but nothing about her is necessarily bad.
 
Also after having played Sage and SF's Fukua I have to admit she seems extremely good. At least when we still play in retail, her combos kill me quickly and I have a hard time getting in with Bella. Even Peacock's zoning is quite the risk as long as she has a bar. Plus those resets are such powerful 50/50s , throw in an assist like LNL and it's guaranteed death.
 
Mike_Z said:
*I* think Fukua is pretty bad, I still thought she sucked even before Evo. She is EASY, yes, and frustrating to fight if you aren't good at approaching on the ground...which is NOT the same thing as GOOD.

If you think Fukua is pretty bad, why is she getting nerfs? Why are you not compensating by buffing what you think her weaknesses are? Are you just nerfing what players use as a crutch, like with the other major changes to characters recently?
 
Man I still want somebody to tell me about the MK Shadow vortex stuff :(
 
FuLLBLeeD said:
Man I still want somebody to tell me about the MK Shadow vortex stuff :(

Go into training room and find mixups from MK Shadow.
 
I like the new fireball change for the most part, my only irk is that (as people have pointed out above) the tracking isn't aggressive enough. If you miss jumping into it, it slings around you and forces you to stop if you want it back right away. As fun as doing this with the return fireball is, it's awkward to keep zoning momentum as it is now.
 
ClarenceMage said:
Go into training room and find mixups from MK Shadow.

I probably should do that but I thought people were referring to something much more specific.
 
FuLLBLeeD said:
Man I still want somebody to tell me about the MK Shadow vortex stuff :(

oh hit? some examples (Every -> is what you'd do after mk shadow)

cr.mp -> crhp -> mk shadow

-> air throw(sliding knockdown)
-> st.hp (burst bait)
off of st.hp if you read they don't burst -> HK shadow or air throw(sliding knockdown)


-> Same side cr.lk, hk shadow, or command grab
-> Cross up "" ""
-> Fake cross up "" ""
-> j.hk j.hp (burst bait)
if they don't burst off this you can do hk shadow, cr.lk, air throw, command grab

With assists
-> Cr.hk + assist cross up
-> fake out cr.hk + assist.
Can do lk or hk shadow, or drill on the same side.
 
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- PP+K is now a valid pushblock command again, but is still not a valid throw tech command. As long as it doesn't do both things at once there is still no OS, but taking away ALL the functions of that button combination is a little harsh. Thank you random Japanese person.


Thank you random Japanese person indeed!

I much prefer this implementation.
 
Maybe make it so that the fireball returns imediately if it connects, but has to come back slowly if you miss, then at least the zoning will have to be more careful
 
Mr Peck said:
He wasn't top 8, he was top 16. And for what it's worth, I didn't see anything special about his Fukua when I beat him 2-0 in pools. Don't get me wrong, I was playing awful too, but his Fukua wasn't scary in the slightest.
I was talking about th evo i was at, 2k13. Where he made top 8 and beat ken and lost to khaos, i was only saying he was strong enough to have made top 8, not that he was that in 2k14. The only things i really know we out evo 2k14 is the top 3 finishers and that sage won and duck didnt.

Not that I'm trying to argue or anything. I can see that i wasnt succinct enough since i mentioned inuchiyos fukua and he only used her at evo 2k14, not 2k13 like in my example.
 
ClarenceMage said:
If you think Fukua is pretty bad, why is she getting nerfs? Why are you not compensating by buffing what you think her weaknesses are? Are you just nerfing what players use as a crutch, like with the other major changes to characters recently?
Because they're experiments? Whether people treat them as final is not my problem.

I'm just looking at what people bitch about to see if there's a solution to the bitching that satisfies me. There may not be! Whether or not I think it's REASONABLE that people complain about her fireballs, nonetheless they do and people's PERCEPTION being something is not something I should unilaterally ignore, whether it's because they are right or not.
She has a lot of tools, so she doesn't necessarily have a buff-able weakness aside from no invincible reversal until Lv3, and that weakness is intentional. She does decent damage (less now), she's decent at range (less now), she's decent up close. None of them are fantastic, and she's not great at dealing with pressure.

I also disagree with people thinking she's nerfed into the ground with this or any other recent change, which is the same overreacting just the other way around.
 
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Pretty much have the same opinion as most of the others have shared (except somewhat Negus and Fox). It forces Fukua players to strengthen their rush-down game. I like that.

I also agree with Caio's suggestion.
 
Also quick note:
Fukua is NOT broken, even the retail version. Its just shes really good, but she can get bodied by smart play. Some are just overreacting lol
 
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Maybe what people are really complaining about is that she's too easy to play.

Also, I like the new fukua mini fireball recharge thing, just think it should get faster once it's near you.
 
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I like how the new fireball effect looks, it is nice to see when it is usable again, pretty
I think it is a fair drawback with increased damage it dosnt appear to hamper combos and she can still have a super fireball out

my only concern is that the tracking is a bit weird in my opinion, like if you jump it struggles to find you and starts to orbit around Fukua in a way
 
worldjem said:
Maybe what people are really complaining about is that she's too easy to play.
Oh I'm entirely sure that's what it is, but I also don't want to change that because it would involve changing j.HK drastically, which changes the character a lot. :^)
I also like that she's easy because it helps newer players.
 
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Ok @Mike_Z
OMFG MY FIREBALLS.....BUT MY DAMAGE WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?
Give me back the old fukua with infinite fireballs!

after analyzing my play and reviewing the changes over and over again. I would like this change *under certain ideas*
My only gripe is that you have to stay put in order to gain the fireball power back. and at times even a double jump at seemingly close distances really mucks up the pick up time. The damage/chip buff is staggering! Personally i *would* like fukua back to fireball without charge. However it seems very fun and more interesting. My thoughts on the changes is that its.....passable its only awkward that when you whiff the fireball and you stay put a bit to pick up fireball you pretty much might as well block or else you could go for 2-3 seconds without a fireball.


This is not a request for change nor anything of the sort cause i know you do not want to give her anymore moves, but i'm very curious cause the creation of fukua was really not explored. when you created this character in 3 days what was the inspiration other than your old code? Did you ever tried a fireball trap mine idea? Like a certain command allowed fukua to plant one fireball and detonates either by touch or by negative edge? or did you just go automatically to the fireball?
 
noaa said:
Thanks Mike, now my favorite thing in this game is to try to run away from the fireball I threw for as long as I can.
lmao imagine how weird it would be if the mini fireball was active the whole time

EDIT : actually does anyone know what happens if fukua tags/dhcs while mini fireball is out?
 
SonicFox5000 said:
Also quick note:
Fukua is NOT broken, even the retail version. Its just shes really good, but she can get bodied by smart play. Some are just overreacting lol

Easier said than done tbh. Considering how solid her neutral is and how fast she nets out damage it doesn't really feel like I'm playing on an even playing field vs other characters in the cast. I've played her for a little over a month, and winning has never been as easy as it is now.

You already know this but I'm going to say it anyways, it is true that once you hit her she doesn't really have any good reversal options. HDrill is okay but you can always reset her in the air or do a throw reset, or call your dp assist and block if you have one. What she doesn't have is the problems peacock has when under pressure. The way you reset Fukua is more or less the same way you'd reset Peacock, but when they're blocking Fukua has a faster/better pbgc reversal option (HK drill -> fireball super) as well as having way faster air to airs (j.lp j.hk). Both which lead to positioning or damage that's way too good lol


A lot of that has been addressed though. With the current experiments everything good about her has gotten slightly worse, but not enough to make me think she's still not top 3 or 4 in this game.

Fireballs are annoying, sure. I don't care as much because cerebella can reflect projectiles and double can flesh step -> punish if you time it properly. Hell parasoul could always sniper shot her on reaction for doing an air fireball, but now you get a crumple off it. Blocking fireballs and waiting isn't the end of the world, but having her cause preblock while she was in the air doing j.hk fireball is stupid. That shouldn't be the case anymore, so I don't see the problem really.

Current Fukua fireball takes too long to come back to you. Looks pretty though I guess.
 
Hoping Fukua stays more zoning oriented than rushdown at the end of this.
 
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worldjem said:
Maybe what people are really complaining about is that she's too easy to play.

Also, I like the new fukua mini fireball recharge thing, just think it should get faster once it's near you.
The following is based off my matches solely with worldjem.
I agree with the limit on fireball, it made worldjem less likely to throw out fireballs simply because he can. That's Peacock's job. So that's fair.
However, the fireball does seem to take a while and a very roundabout path back. Additionally, while it may not matter since they are being hit but if fukua get grabbed in an animation like Diamond Drop or Ultimate Showstopper while the fireball is returning, it takes even longer for her to get it back with the ball looping around.
 
dekillsage said:
Easier said than done tbh. Considering how solid her neutral is and how fast she nets out damage it doesn't really feel like I'm playing on an even playing field vs other characters in the cast.

Give it another year, or a few months if you yell at everyone else to stop being shit and git gud, and help already good people work out how to get even better.

Remember how Wesker was one of the best characters in UMVC3 before people figured out how to play characters that require actual effort, but are also much much better?

Skullgirls lets you get away with not optimising your play at a certain level because of the cast's general ease of use, and ease of ab-use for obviously strong things like herpaderp neutral and herpaderp assists, but as players get better then herpaderp becomes much much easier to deal with and punish, and not-obviously-strong stuff gets stronger because now you have the skill to actually use it.

Things like being able to punish characters shit more, being able to use actually good low-commital pressure, using ranged pokes as confirms instead of pure high-low-throw in your face game, using assists to augment your character instead of just throwing it out brainlessly or using it as the basis of your gameplan, and high-skill reactionary read-based neutral instead of "get into optimal range of thing, use thing, if it works go into combo, if it doesn't work call an assist to make it safe then do another mixup". These type of things are criminally under-used in nearly all footage I see.

Frankly, one of the biggest failings of the Skullgirls community is that we seriously lack high-skill tier whores. People who are at a high level, AND also are willing to explore the cheapest possible shit they can think of. Too many people are comfortable with just playing who they like, and it's annoying that the game is balanced enough for that to not cause instant losses when they pick non-optimal things. I'm joking of course, I like games balanced, and it's good that stupid absuive shit is being removed when found.

This recent trend of US players thinking that Cerebella is a top tier anchor because of H LNL, big comeback factor, hustlin rocks, and lots of options is deeply puzzling to me for this reason. H LNL isn't -that good- as an assist. It's good, but it's not like it covers a truly great amount of space or keeps you truly locked down. It's good with appropriate setup, and it punishes assists pretty well though. Hustlin rocks is very easy to bait, and assistless Cerebella is not too challenging to avoid, outrun, and re-crossup.

I'm more in the camp that a comeback shell, like Band/Double, Band/Wheel, Band/Peacock are better as anchors because of the ease of SSJ->safe dhc once big band lands or escapes a reset, and giving double/wheel/peacock L Extend which is an absolutely glorious assist for them to use, since it's not only a DP assist that helps conversions, it assists in neutral by being a dp assist that snaps people up at footsie range and INCREASES CHARACTERS ABILITIES TO CONVERT.

Double can't convert off of her jumpback j.HP normally, but if you confirm into L Extend then suddenly that button is horrifying. Peacock's j.MP and j.HP are pretty alright at controlling space, but nothing to write home about... until you do j.MP j.HP confirmed into L Extend and uh oh now you're getting comboed by peacock. Painwheel doesn't get too much help confirming from L Extend since her confirms are godlike anyway but she just uses it super well in other situations.

But why is Bella more focused on than this kind of team composition? Because Bella is far easier to use than a team composition. It's far more simple to try find the right place to happy birthday level 3 for a comeback, to use something high-priority to insta-win a situation on a correct read. Everyone is focusing on the next easy thing to use, instead of the high-research, high-skill shit.

tl;dr:

everyone should git gud and that makes harder characters as good if not better as easier characters

big band/(double/painwheel/peacock) is really really good as an anchor

yaboiidekillspeak:

do some hard shit sometimes ayyyyyy S K I L L G U R L S

L extend tho
 
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If you stack up what Fukua has vs what other characters have when you remove execution from the equation, she's not all that well-equipped. She kinda reminds me of like...3s Ryu?
But it's okay, nobody has to believe me. Top 3 or 4? HAH.
 
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Fukua has two non metered reversals and both lead into combos. Anti-air invincible dp, half screen meter punish super which leads into full combo. A fireball game that doesn't really have any dead spots(arguable i know). Her shadows. A move that ignores pushblock and god knows what else because i can't see whats in the beta.

While you may not think she's the best character her tools are stupid.
 
agent13 said:
two non metered reversals and both lead into combos
I don't see H drill leading to combos without 3 bars, or 1 when you're cornering.

agent13 said:
Anti-air invincible dp
what
if you mean shadow, that's not a dp and it's not even unreactable.
 
Colossi said:
I don't see H drill leading to combos without 3 bars, or 1 when you're cornering.

what
if you mean shadow, that's not a dp and it's not even unreactable.

drill super has invincibility and even if you don't continue a combo after with h. drill you're +3 i believe? It's still good

Domo said:
h u h

Armored command grab and h. drill
 
agent13 said:
drill super has invincibility and even if you don't continue a combo after with h. drill you're +3 i believe? It's still good



Armored command grab and h. drill
HOLD ON HOLD ON HOLD ON

this will be the thing i make sure that no one that doesn't play fukua and fights fukua will shut up about the those moves.

H Drill is strike ONLY. what does that mean? GRAB HER. now in beta you can block and punish for free now.

Armor grab you should NOT be getting hit by that. if you do then you got read and you got read hard.

that bullshit +3 fukua's at? what is she going to do? low or grab which can be beaten by just pressing up not upback.

Now i don't want to hear "well i don't get hit by this ever" THAT"S NOT the point. the point is to tell your friends or sparring partners on the consequences and the counter to this moves. that way your perception of fukua gets better..... am i really teaching people how to fight this character?

anyways i'm done with this thread. *unwatches till next patch or if someone quoted me*
 
what are you doing on wakeup that is so committed, that a reversal armored grab hits you?
 
agent13 said:
Armored command grab and h. drill
H. Drill can be thrown, and in the Beta its so slow its awful as a reversal. also how do you combo from that outside of just a super? No good player should be getting hit by armor grab since you can just chain into a launcher to jump out of it, or react with any of the other things that could beat it
 
Domo said:
H. Drill can be thrown, and in the Beta its so slow its awful as a reversal. also how do you combo from that outside of just a super? No good player should be getting hit by armor grab since you can just chain into a launcher to jump out of it, or react with any of the other things that could beat it

I'm not saying if they're good or not but they are tools that can be used and they're decent enough for people to use them in most situations
 
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