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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Muro said:
Was there any logic/plan/vision behind the placement of the vanilla 8 cast btw?
As opposed to DLC characters it's not the order in which they were created, that much is clear.

That was decided before I was part of the team, but it seems pretty logical to me. Filia left, Cerebella right, Peacock up, Parasoul down. Then top left for Ms Fortune, top right for PW, bottom left for Val and bottom right for Double. And since Val and Double start out locked/grey out, it looks better to have both of them at the bottom, rather than placing them opposing each other left/right and top/bottom.
 
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hah, ah Robo Kitty's time out animation is cute. i like it. as for the placement of the characters in the select screen, i don't care where they are just as long as i'm able to pick them then i'm fine.
 
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Flotilla said:
Does it really matter either way? It's not like the Ghost of Character Select Feng Shui is going to haunt Lab Zero if char select doesn't adhere PERFECTLY to the lore. The only thing that really made character select look eh (Fukua making it asymmetrical with her absence) was fixed, so I'm pretty happy

Super happy to see Beowulf fully colored, BTW. Can't wait for March!

We're gonna have to get through the lousy Smarch weather first
 
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render said:
It also has both male characters placed symmetrically, and the DLC characters in chronological release order. Except for Fukua, who came out with Big Band, I think. But having Fukua at the bottom lets us have the music-themed characters together at the top. ;)

We also didn't want to mess with the order of the original cast.


Oh! didn´t see the male char. position, thanks for the clarification Render! totally love the actual order of the CSS,
 
My probably unwanted opinions

Fortune - H Fiber, sHK

yeh, only ever really see fiber though

Filia - H Updo, H Hairball

yeh

Valentine - H Bypass, Throw

Throw? 2MK seems a much more apparent choice here to me

Fukua - H Drill, M Clone

yeh

Squigly - 6HP, Drag 'n Bite

hmm, 2HP needs to be over 6HP in my opinion, so much more useful overall (and used). I would also say center stage over drag 'n' bite, but DNB is still popular

Big Band - L Beat Extend, H Brass Knuckles

yeh

Peacock - M SoID, Boxcar George

Probably should be H bomb instead of M bomb. Maybe even 5HP over SOID, haven't seen people running SOID assist since vanilla but it still isn't a bad choice

Parasoul - Napalm Pillar, L Napalm Shot

yeh

Eliza - Dive of Horus, Butcher's Blade

no HK Osiris? Osiris > Dive I think

Painwheel - H Pinion Dash, cMP

M Pinion > H Pinion

Cerebella - Cerecopter, H LnL

yeh

Double - M Hornet Bomber, Cilia Slide

yeh

Beowulf - H Hurting Hurl, cHP

yeh

Robo Fortune - sHP, cMK

character not done, but yeh for now
 
I still feel that painwheels best assist is cr.mp. I havent played against a painwheel that used pinion assists that made me feel like it was even a mediocre assist option over cr.mp.

Cilia slide seems replaceable by lk bomber for the invincibility. But double really has a bunch of assist choices, so it doesnt really matter what is up there since they are still good options and varied at that.
 
Tomo009 said:
haven't seen people running SOID assist since vanilla but it still isn't a bad choice
Hi there, my name is TJ aka Dash. Nice to meet you.
(In all seriousness M item drop is definitely one of if not her best assists.)
 
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Note that the default assist choices aren't just "Pick this", but also "This is an option, don't forget"

So even if you could make a point that sMK/Nail/whatever is better than Pinion, Pinion should stay as a default assist choice so.. people know it's a thing.
Similarly, Val-Throw might be worse than cMK but is the only Throw in the presets, so it should stick;
and multiple strength of the same special (eg L+M Bomber) are worse than two different things (Bomber+Cilia)
Eliza is a similar case, where you want to show off the Sekhmet assists - and a 2nd lockdown assist with Spiral is kinda bleh. So instead, it's Divekick or Couch, and Divekick.. is more fun.

Saying that, perhaps the 2nd Fortune assist should be cHP (Which gives Zoom when headless);
not-Fiber isn't really used anyways, and that would be another of those "show it off" kinda things.
 
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I think Pinion is perfectly fine. Hell, I think 6hp is perfectly fine even though I use 2hp. It is only marginally more convenient than picking the assist I want via input (not to mention we have the "team save" feature now), and every choice gives newer players better options than they had before.

I wouldn't even waste any more time optimizing it because it is a hell of a lot better than it was, and it accomplishes what I think is the goal.

This patch is batting 1000 as far as I'm concerned, and any real nitpicking is just that.
 
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Would it be reasonable to assume most of the current beta changes and/or Beo will be implemented prior to the Cali regionals, NWM, and CB?
 
Muro said:
Was there any logic/plan/vision behind the placement of the vanilla 8 cast btw?
As opposed to DLC characters it's not the order in which they were created, that much is clear.
Originally, LRUD corners, because it sort of preserved symmetry as we made the new characters. Heh.

Hilary said:
Would it be reasonable to assume most of the current beta changes and/or Beo will be implemented prior to the Cali regionals, NWM, and CB?
NCR might be stretching it, but if Beo isn't out by NWM/CB I'll be crying.

@ custom assists
Good, I wanted input.
Double is not gonna have two Bombers as her default choices. :^P I don't care which Bomber gets picked or which other assist she gets, but I'd like a consensus.
I'll switch Squigly to cr.HP, Peacock to plane, and I guess Painwheel to M Pinion? (Why is that picked over H?)
I also don't mind switching Val away from throw, though I do like that it's a throw choice. Is c.MK most common over Bypass?
And yes, these make no difference for most people, but for beginners they do.
 
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2MK is way more popular than bypass unless you have a bypass conversion off Diamond Drop or something similar imo.
Also for Fortune, isn't head roll more popular than 5HK?
I've never seen 5HK Fortune assist unless it's by mistake when they wanted DP.
 
Mike_Z said:
(Why is that picked over H?)

I pick M Pinion because it's not too slow like H Pinion, and doesn't go too short a distance like L Pinion. It fills a very nice specific little niche that still remains useful for all the characters I've used it with. Peacock gets good zoning coverage with it, Big Band keeps his Brass & A-Train safe with it, Valentine can use it to call M Pinion->Air bypass at mid range to get in. But H Pinion was just slightly too slow to be better than M Pinion for those uses.


Skarmand said:
2MK is way more popular than bypass unless you have a bypass conversion off Diamond Drop or something similar imo.

Bypass lets you control more screen space, so it's the best neutral game option for something like Team Duck when Filia & Double go on point.
 
Mike_Z said:
M Pinion? (Why is that picked over H?)
I also don't mind switching Val away from throw, though I do like that it's a throw choice. Is c.MK most common over Bypass?
And yes, these make no difference for most people, but for beginners they do.
Honestly L pinion is the most usable of the three strengths. It has great hitstun to confirm, comes out the fastest, and is good for combos. H pinion is good for Big Band but that's it. M Pinion I have no idea who can use that well outside of maybe peacock, it knocks the opponent away too much. Val Cr mk is the second most common I'd say outside of bypass. However, her throw assist leaves crumple, and that is good alone, especially for beginners.
 
If you're looking for feedback:

Definitely Squigs 2hp.

Any pinion is fine. I use H. Clarence is rocking M. Warped wants L... They are all super rare relative to c.mp.

Other PW options are throw (Elda's choice), or m.nails (probably more common than Pinion).

@WarpedEcho

I like h.Pinion on Squigly. You can catch it out of the air at full screen, and really it just forces them into the air (where I want them) at any where on the screen.
 
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Were i to ever go pinion... Whihc i doubt i would, it would be either L pinion or M pinion.

L because it comes out fast, has a great hitbox and great hitsun, m for the range.
 
Dime_x said:
Were i to ever go pinion... Whihc i doubt i would, it would be either L pinion or M pinion.
L because it comes out fast, has a great hitbox and great hitsun, m for the range.
You're c.MP right?
 
I have been summoned. Hrmm, tough choice. M is a good standard version of Pinion to use. HOWEVER, H is fun and potentially leads to silly, stupid things. I guess we'll go with the solid option and say M. If people like it enough they can experiment with the others depending on their team!
 
Mike_Z said:
Double is not gonna have two Bombers as her default choices. :^P I don't care which Bomber gets picked or which other assist she gets, but I'd like a consensus.
I prefer L Butt, but M is what most still use so it could stay as default.
As said before, I haven't seen any Double recently use Clide assist. I personally used L Luger, but I rarely clicked the default assist choice and set it in custom instead due to muscle memory.
 
KhaosMuffins said:
'Ello @Mike_Z I'm guessing you skipped over the Fortune discussion a few pages back, but one issue that people have with headless Fortune is that trying to do IAD stuff with her feels... chunky. Could there be a larger buffer so that it's easier to get an attack out as soon as possible out of headless IAD?

Hey @Mike_Z , I'm not sure if you saw this or not but is this something reasonable that can be tried in the beta? Doing IAD j.LK as headless Fortune always felt chunky and weird to myself and other Fortune players I've talked too (beyond the fact that there is supposed to be an upper height limit that I know isn't going away which is fair :) ). If its going to stay the way it is I can deal though, just curious.
 
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render said:
...Except for Fukua, who came out with Big Band, I think.
IIRC, it was shortly after Big Band's release when you guys had to do that emergency patch for Val's cross colors.
 
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@Mike_Z

Can the heart come out (not broken heart) come out when there's a successful reversal? I don't think there's any indicators in the game when there is one.
 
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+1 for a reversal indicator
 
If possible, can the reversal indicator come as text on the sides? I feel like there's too many things popping up outta of characters if we add another one. I understand that it might be currently impossible.
 
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Mwisk said:
If possible, can the reversal indicator come as text on the sides? I feel like there's too many things popping up outta of characters if we add another one. I understand that it might be currently impossible.
REVERSAL ATTACK
1000
 
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Night Phyre said:
REVERSAL ATTACK
1000

Lol, SG should have Arcade Mode points just for that satisfying sound of the end-of-the-round points getting added to your overall score. *addswhateveronomatopoeiaworksforthesfxinSFII"
 
akindhobo said:
Can the heart come out (not broken heart) come out when there's a successful reversal? I don't think there's any indicators in the game when there is one.

Why would this need to be a thing? Low/high/CH indicators can help you understand things that may be ambiguous, but there's nothing really ambiguous about getting Updo'd when you were going for a mixup. Your attack whiffing on their invuln frames (something that already has a visual indicator) tells you that they used a move with invincibility as a reversal against you.
 
Mike_Z said:
NCR might be stretching it, but if Beo isn't out by NWM/CB I'll be crying.
Okay cool. Didn't wanna tell returning players to mess with Beta unless we were sure most of it would be in retail by NWM.
@ custom assists
Double is not gonna have two Bombers as her default choices. :^P I don't care which Bomber gets picked or which other assist she gets, but I'd like a consensus.

Most (if not all) of the characters that work really well with L-Bomber can still work well with M-Bomber, but the inverse is far less likely.

I also don't mind switching Val away from throw, though I do like that it's a throw choice. Is c.MK most common over Bypass?

cMK and anesthesia are the most common choices, bypass tends to be for people that have an assist-specific conversion for it, i.e., diamond drop
 
Mike_Z said:
You're c.MP right?


Yeah, for me i prefer c.MP.

Comparing it to L and m pinion, heres why:


L pinion is hard to use at its maximum range for me atleast. Mostly i either wiff it at its max range, or i use it at a close range where c.mp would have been a much better choice for lockdown on either hit or block.

L pinion has the caveat that it wont scale combos like c.MP and has extended range for certain types of ranged blockstring pressure, but i never found it particularly powerful for myself even when using it for such things.

M pinion only really has range going for it imho. It doesnt convert like c.MP and it doesnt effectively control a super important amount of space for myself, also it can hang painwheel out to dry to get very badly punished.

And it doesnt lend itself to on hit conversions well at all (lol i said that already). I think its best use is as a ranged meatshield and/or to make certain assist plus ranged specials safe (ish) on block such as clarencemages bypass plus M pinion assist pattern.

At the end of the day, c.MP takes more to setup but gives much bigger dividends once it has been imho so id rather have it.

Like everything this is largely just a matter of opinion and styles.
 
CaioLugon said:
Why c.mp over s.mk tho?


St.mk mini launches and allows the opponent to recover in the air on hit, making cr.lk/low profile moves harder to convert with. Also, st.mk moves the opponent away from you on hit whereas c.MP keeps the opponent in place. c.MP has more lockdown time as well.

^are the reasons why i prefer c.MP over st.mk.

St.mk however has much more priority than c.MP, but i dont find that use particularly powerful in my own games as an assist and have found that trying to use it that way is a good way to get happy birthdayed.

But those are my own results. Others may vary greatly. Im not trying to convince anyone NOT to use it. If ypu like it and find it good in your game.. Use it imho.


-edit

If st.mk didnt mini launch i think it would be by far the better assist... Which means that characters that can easily convert it... Mini launch or not, might be much better served using it than using c.MP.
 
If it's a good reversal by the opponent you'll get counterhit and see the broken heart and then you'll know it was a reversal ass reversal!
 
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For Valentine assists, this is all I can offer:
Cr.mk (my choice), is used do to it being a long reaching low. It has good blockstun and hitstun, keeps the opponent grounded on hit or block, can be used to link chains that otherwise would not, can be used in throw mixups as a throw whiff guard (protect the point after a throw whiff), can be used to confirm off of heavy pokes, etc.

Throw is very good for beginning players, as its crumple allows easy followups. Keeps the opponent honest, can control the opponents movement just by calling it (They will probably jump it, or rarely try to tech it). Downsides are that it scales its followup, and its a throw assist, not much utility.

S.hp is very popular as well. Its hitbox is great, it can avoid lows, act as a long range poke, has good blockstun which combined with its range allows for quick run ins after its use. Can be hard to confirm off of max range, but it can't have everything.

Hk Bypass is very much slept on and considered a gimmicky assist for no good reason. Its Pros are that it deals 1275 in 1 hit, pops up on hit for a followup, allows heavy links with almost all characters getting better damage out of assist combos, can be used to confirm off of certain supers and commands, such as dynamo and diamond drop, has great blockstun that can keep unsafe moves safe, keeps the opponent honest at midrange, and forces attention at mid to long range. Cons are that it has bad recovery, very small vertical range (Which is a big deal for people). It is a great assist, and should see more use

Honorable mention for Mortuary Drop (Similar utility to throw, however untechable, has higher damage, and is fun to use imo) and s.mk (Slightly usable as lockdown due to new hitbox).
 
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why do people want a reversal indicator? If you got a reversal, it will most likely be indicated by the opponent flashing red and having a broken heart.
 
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