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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

ah yes herd that too. There was going to be slight changes to the ref coming out and the costs for him too, right? Either way right now, Beo is extremely solid as a character in dealing good damage and placing up setups with a frog splash finisher.
 
I have an idea for a beta experiment, if u have a three character team allow two assists to be used during a combo instead of one
 
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@Mike_Z

I specifically ignored the low attack comments because i preempted them by saying "mid range upback"

Midrange upback is outside low attack range, and pw specifically has one of the slowest startup dashes in the game, and the slowest cr.lk (only peacock can claim slower comboable lows)

So with pw specifically, pw has a hard time dealing with this via dash ins and staying grounded.

Midrange up back is the one i have trouble dealing with in this game. Previously i could pressure the opponent with my own jumpin as they land. Now i kinda basically cant.


So to me, close range upback and midrange upback are almost completely separate entities. One is super easy to beat if you correctly anticipate it with lows, the other has to beaten with some sort of dash jump airthrow, or trying to walk the opponent into the corner.

Once again for pw specifically, it can be VERY hard to deal with players that upback at midrange, then double jump forward and call an assist. They are above pw so she cant airthrow them easily since they are descending with an assist covering them. She cant make the jumpin wiff and then pressure them as they land since they will just upback. She has to either play super defensive like the opponent or seek to abuse airthrows. If the opponent is dead set on using that double jump plus assist strat, then pw can counter call, and thats why i stated in one of the above posts "counter call 10 times a game" because i have to counter call them alot and it feels like all im doing is countercalling and airthrowing.

Once again, low attacks do not work because they are not in the range of low attacks.


Anyways, i digress. Im NOT IN NO WAY even intimating that pw could use buffs to compensate... Hell no shes good enough. I was primarily wondering if something could be done to keep the upback intact against things like assists and and projectiles, but keep the proximity grounded for single non super jump attacks (meaning that the proximity ground doesnt occur against super jumps or double jumps, but does occur against single jumps)


To me, this is kind of a win/win happy medium. You can still midrange upback against lots of offenses, but not all of them and you still have to be mindful of your spacing with respect to the opponent options to counter pressure your jump wiff.



But at this point in time i dont see that happening since im the one suggesting it as well as all the midrange character players wanting it to stay in.

Ive adjusted my team to now have A train on it. I wish i didnt have to do that, but it is what it is. Now i can perdiodically call my a train and force my opponent to deal with my grounded mixups for a short duration. Not the best solution but at least a dynamic non boring one for myself :)
 
Tayoda said:
I have an idea for a beta experiment, if u have a three character team allow two assists to be used during a combo instead of one


While tempting, no.
 
Dime_x said:
@Mike_Z

Midrange upback

Now I might be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure the change occurred because close range attacks locking opponents down from mid range is complete and utter horseshit.

As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure preblock only really exists to help aid close range pressure in the first place. It's not there to get you in, it's there to keep you in. Or rather, it's there to keep you from having an easy out once your opponent is in there.


Edit: On a side note, how do people feel about robo fortune having a double jump instead of an air dash? I'm gonna try the double jump soon, but I really liked her with an air dash..
 
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Tayoda said:
I have an idea for a beta experiment, if u have a three character team allow two assists to be used during a combo instead of one
Thats starting a combo with L beat extend or something and then using your other one in the combo or to lock down for reset.
 
Tayoda said:
I have an idea for a beta experiment, if u have a three character team allow two assists to be used during a combo instead of one
Don't feel bad, mate. Although you might think it's a cool idea to experiement, the reality is we all know this would be way too crazy and already know where it would lead to.
 
Dhoppler said:
Now I might be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure the change occurred because close range attacks locking opponents down from mid range is complete and utter horseshit.

As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure preblock only really exists to help aid close range pressure in the first place. It's not there to get you in, it's there to keep you in. Or rather, it's there to keep you from having an easy out once your opponent is in there.

I didnt feel as if your previous points merited discussion because i felt that i already discussed all your points. But i do feel that this one does merit a response:

The change ocurred from what i know as far as the discussion going on at the time, was isavulpes complaining about being rooted by super jump attacks (his vid at the time iirc was showing characters unable to jumpback against wiffed super jump moves) and also the obvious stupidity of getting hit by projectiles and assists during your upback prejump frames

Me personally i NEVER had a problem with this from midrsnge jumping attacks. Like how you dont seem to notice the new upback, i never noticed an inability to not jump. There are a couple of reasons for this:

1. When i wanted to jump i just jumped forward. The opponent cant lockout forward jumps.
2. If i didnt want to jump forward and instead wanted to up back against my opponents jump attack.. There was a rather easy and obvious trick... Jump back early before their air move started up.

So... Yeah i dont see the utter horseshit that you talk about. I was completely free to use the engine to my own advantage however i wanted.

So, as an example, the way that people keep beating me over the head with "use low attacks" (as if that isnt the most obvious thing in the world (which i wholeheartedly already abuse like its going out of style), but i digress)

My answer for "being locked down from midrange" is:

IT ONLY WORKS AGAINST UPBACK!!! If you dont upback, and instead dash forward or jump forward or jump back before their airborn attack becomes active... YOU STILL GET TO MOVE :)

Anyways, im pretty sure ive done no convincing here. People want there kluge defense. And theres nothing i can do about it except to design my team against it as best as i know how.
 
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General
- IPS display in training mode now highlights the button that triggered IPS in white. Thanks d3v. :^)
- Cheated teams with 2 or 3 of the same character online, when they don't outright crash, are now insta-killed by the other person, like Marie etc. Sorry D0xxer, but if both players cheat it might still work. :^)
- FIXED alpha-countering on death, for the last friggin' time. Also gave chip-killed characters a nicer arc instead of falling straight down immediately. Thank yaboidekillsage.

Beowulf
- Moonsault uppercuts now properly stay invincible if the first uppercut makes contact. Thanks yaboidekillsage.
Big Band
- He can no longer parry EVER when he is not the point character. I'd missed a case! :^P
Cerebella
- Sped up successful Pummel Horse animation by as much as I can stand...about 40f faster total. Thanks Woofly for being unsatisfied with everything. ;^)
Double
- Bugfix: Bandwagon Rushdown is much more likely to land all 5 hits when the opponent is hit by the back of the car.
- Improve Beast of Gehenna's spawn visuals an eensy bit. (Yes, Monster has had a name in the move list for a long time. :^)
- Just very slightly slower hits during Nightmare Legion.
Fukua
- s.HP first active frame's vulnerable boxes restored to Real Game version, 2nd-3rd active frames are still larger. (Filia's same fix from before.) Thanks yaboidekillsage.
- H shadow is created 4f earlier, now only 3f slower than the Real Game. Due to the fact that all shadow summon animations are the same length, however, this extra 4f becoming part of her recovery means that c.MP->c.HP->H Shadow, non-OTG s.MK is now a 1-2f link.
MsFortune
- Headless M and H Fiber Uppercut no longer require all hits to connect in order to jump. Can still jump on whiff, cannot jump on block. Head-on Fiber still requires all hits to connect. A probably decent suggestion from worldjem.
RoboFortune
- Added ground beams, QCT+P/236+P.
- Smaller camera shake in walks because The Princess and the Pea is a real-life situation apparently.
- Smaller camera shake in dash, moved to the actual ignition at the beginning of forward movement.
- Dash startup has no forward movement.
- No longer has an airdash, instead has a double-jump.
- Can double-jump cancel air attacks on hit/block, and airthrow recovery.
- Airthrow opponent release trajectory changed.
Valentine
- Bugfix: Falling after a whiffed/blocked air Savage Bypass is now properly counterhit state, rather than just being unable to block but still letting her tech throws.
http://steamcommunity.com/games/208610/announcements/detail/195115947996248580
 
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Luweewu said:
General
if both players cheat it might still work. :^)

This... sounds... AMAZING! Can this be a mode later? (Not really expecting a yes, but still)
 
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Oh, the double jump change just went live...

alright then.

@Dime_x

I really don't care to entertain this discussion anymore. But if the old preblock rules don't flick a light bulb about past experiences where you couldn't move and got a standing normal instead of a jumping one, or you just couldn't backdash with a stick input I don't know what to tell you. Some (read most) people don't like jumping into a maw before trying to back out and reposition. If pursuing your opponent is that much of a pain in the ass, then whatever, the change is in.
 
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Wait waht? people where using the same characters online? is there a video?
Would be funny to see them now with this patch die the moment it starts lol
 
Sorry if this has been mentioned before but since Mike Z has figured out how beams have worked, will there be any change to Argus Agony?
 
Heavy mewnibeam hit's parasoul's tears after they've been set. This is for her own team. I don't know how it interacts with enemy tears.
 
Cerebella
- Sped up successful Pummel Horse animation by as much as I can stand...about 40f faster total. Thanks Woofly for being unsatisfied with everything. ;^)
I am pleased.
 
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Just tested out Robo's double jump.
I have to say I miss the airdash, and preferred it - the double-jump seems to have less options for combo routes as of me experimenting to change, but I know this is subject to change.
Then again, I'm a scrub so who cares about my opinion.
 
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Man, Sage, that combo is like 10293 better than the replacement one I worked on. Still preferred the feel of her air-dash, but I'll adapt :P
 
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I would like to say that I preferred Robo's air dash over the double jump stuff. Im a little sad that her air mobility is slower now but its not a bit deal. As sort of a compromise to air dash vs double jump why not try giving Robo full GG style air movement? By that I mean only one double jump or air dash per jump and no air dash cancels on normals.

Also to reduce IAD craziness make the IAD hight the same normal jump hight.
 
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Does Eliza really need Horus to still come out after getting hit? I really don't like that I can CH Eliza but because I did something that seems right I get punished for it.

I can adjust and just block and call assist (and get 90% scaling for doing the right thing) or just throw her (and get 50% scaling for doing the right thing or go back to neutral and have eliza do the same thing again unless I have meter to convert off of the throw). I'd explain myself more but I just really feel you should stop the bird because you hit eliza. Plenty of characters do similar things and I'd rather she do 10k off of a horus starter because I really messed up rather than do the right thing and counter her but get hit anyway.

Put I'm just tossing change around.

edit: Probably gonna get shot down for writing this but maybe I'll learn something while I get shot.
 
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You do know that Eliza starting a combo off of Horus has 60% scaling now, right? Your entire scaling punishes point doesn't mean much when they are about equal.

I don't get why you'd rather Eliza get 10k off of Horus instead of what it is now just so you can mash Jab during pressure instead of throw. Plus you could always mash invincible reversal anyways and it'll still work for like every character.
 
Because it works this way for most other characters so why not her too? You already get the red bounce back and easy to combo overhead attack you can only counter by stunting your own damage.

Fukua's shadows go away when you hit her. Fortune's head does nothing when you hit her. Parasoul's bike stops working when you hit her. The only exception is like Peacock and for good reason being a zoner and all but item drop also goes away when you hit her I believe.

I don't see why this can't go on one thing Eliza has. Also 66% scaling.
 
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Stuff said:
Fukua's shadows go away when you hit her. Fortune's head does nothing when you hit her. Parasoul's bike stops working when you hit her. The only exception is like Peacock and for good reason being a zoner and all but item drop also goes away when you hit her I believe. I don't see why this can't go on one thing Eliza has.
This is the same reasoning I thought made sense to everybody. I was sad to see the, "horus goes bye bye when Eliza is hit," change get reverted so quickly. I thought it was a good fix.
 
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I would also strongly prefer if Horus went into hitstun when Eliza is hit. As stuff said, every other er... summon works like this. It is genuinely the only thing in this game that I find frustrating to play against, especially because Horus is such a versatile tool that covers so much space and always guarantees her a combo.

Also to talk about fenster's point, I find a lot of the points where Eliza is calling Horus is where she is far out of my throw range. Her blockstring puts her a decent amount of space away from her opponent, and I don't think Eliza players would call Horus from point blank.

I would much rather have Horus start deal more damage to me then play against it the way it is now.
 
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Funny thing I found with Robo Fortune's beam

MP Beam will completely whiff on Cerebella while she is leaning slightly forward in her idle animation. Seems to be a pixel off from hitting her and she is leaning forward for just the right amount of frames to not get hit by the beam when she starts to lean back

MP and HP beam can also completely whiff on her during tumble run
 
Stuff said:
Because it works this way for most other characters so why not her too? You already get the red bounce back and easy to combo overhead attack you can only counter by stunting your own damage.

Fukua's shadows go away when you hit her. Fortune's head does nothing when you hit her. Parasoul's bike stops working when you hit her. The only exception is like Peacock and for good reason being a zoner and all but item drop also goes away when you hit her I believe.

I don't see why this can't go on one thing Eliza has. Also 66% scaling.

Fukua shadows go away on hit possibly do to the amount of tools she already has, and the going away is a tradeoff? Fortune's head is not a projectile, Parasoul's bike super is a projectile, and only their spawning is stopped if she is hit, not their hitboxes. Para's bike hitgrab/command grab? got a buff if I recall. Horus is a projectile. The rule of projectiles across this game seems to be that even if the point is hit, they dont stop having a hitbox. SOID goes away probably due to not wanting it to be used as a free out of being hit/ charging SOID does not count as the object being created.

Also, you sure Mike didn't give his reasoning? I mean he doesn't usually revert changes without mentioning why?
 
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cloudKing211 said:
Fortune's head is not a projectile
Also, you sure Mike didn't give his reasoning? I mean he doesn't usually revert changes without mentioning why?

Fortune's head is a projectile just so you know. Except for nom because that's a hit grab. c: While I'm debunking odd beliefs, the head is also not a low all head attacks are mid. It does however catch upback but only because it's very active. (though I don't believe this is possible due to the upback change)

I'm not sure if he said why other than that he feels that was the right thing to do. I mean I want to believe this is right too but really felt that the change before this one was much more right. At least to me anyway.
 
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Fortune's head attacks besides nom are totally projectiles

Or at least you can reflect them with cerebella anyway
 
RemiKz said:
Funny thing I found with Robo Fortune's beam

MP Beam will completely whiff on Cerebella while she is leaning slightly forward in her idle animation. Seems to be a pixel off from hitting her and she is leaning forward for just the right amount of frames to not get hit by the beam when she starts to lean back

MP and HP beam can also completely whiff on her during tumble run

Speaking of Weird things, Robos LP beam hits Parasoul during most of the arc of Egret dive. Looking at the hitboxes, I guess its because during the early parts of the Dive, Parasoul's leg actually overlaps with the Egret's? During the tail end of the beam it works fine.

cloudKing211 said:
The rule of projectiles across this game seems to be that even if the point is hit, they dont stop having a hitbox. SOID goes away probably due to not wanting it to be used as a free out of being hit/ charging SOID does not count as the object being created.

To add onto that, Parasoul tear shots, tosses, and placed tears always go away when she's hit, presumably for the same reasoning (which is fine).
 
Valentine
- Bugfix: Falling after a whiffed/blocked air Savage Bypass is now properly counterhit state, rather than just being unable to block but still letting her tech throws.

Seeing this made me want to test Grab Bag and see if it had the same properties.

The results:

If you try to punish Bella after she falls to the ground with a hit, nothing. But, if you punish it on the ground with a grab, you get the counterhit. Punishing it while Bella's still in the air gives a counterhit, both grab and hit.
 
Just a friendly reminder to everyone, there's a Beta Robo-Fortune Gameplay thread that was made to avoid overloading this thread with R.Fortune talk. While it's not against the rules to discuss Robo-Fortune here, it'd be appreciated if you try and keep R.Fortune beta gameplay talk in this thread so the other beta changes can be discussed more freely here.
 
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An old change but am I the minority with the opinion that I preferred the old Double tag in? In the context of crossing up that is. Maybe I'm just not used to it but I instinctively change sides when blocking when my character swaps sides and I always get hit.

Eliza's lvl3 has a cross up problem too which is even more annoying but I'm not sure if I'm the only one that finds it annoying too.
 
ashxu said:
An old change but am I the minority with the opinion that I preferred the old Double tag in? In the context of crossing up that is. Maybe I'm just not used to it but I instinctively change sides when blocking when my character swaps sides and I always get hit.

Eliza's lvl3 has a cross up problem too which is even more annoying but I'm not sure if I'm the only one that finds it annoying too.
The Eliza crossup is controlled by the player, it isn't random/distance to corner specific.
 
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