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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Mike_Z said:
I'm a lot less for that, just because if things were going to stick you to the ground it should be based on opponent's height above you, not what type of jump they started with.
I'm also less for things that categorically won't hit you because you are blocking them preventing you from moving in the desired direction, which is why air hits don't stick you down but low hits do.


Fair enough.
 
Upback assist call is definitely a low counterplay neutral game choice, but honestly unless it's Peacock, Parasoul, and maybe Fukua you don't lose a lot by being patient and just blocking an assist call. If they try and rush you down after you block then they have to deal with YOUR assist/respect your reversal options and if they don't you get to jab the assist out for a few seconds. (unless it's Peacock and then lmao too bad you got chipped for like 600, but I digress, she IS a dedicated zoner)

I DO think upbacking is an extremely strong choice for characters with good air to air normals, but that's just part of their spacing game and playstyle. Not much would change that, I think.

This does not mean Beat Extend + upback zoning does not make me salty ;__;
 
Ima hop back in the casual corner after reading all that. man so much stuff on blocking. I don't even think about it im just glad when i don't get crossed up.
 
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3/6 Patch Notes

http://steamcommunity.com/gid/103582791433982635/announcements/detail/195117040794939859

Today's Patch Notes BGM™ is an amazing Marble Madness cover by Disasterpeace:
1.jpg

YouTube™ Video: "60" (ft Disasterpeace) - Marble Madness (NES) Practice Race cover - Stemage
Views: 1,275
DOWNLOAD: http://stemage.bandcamp.com/album/where-good-marbles-go-to-die-marble-madness

As always, if you enjoy the song, support the artist![stemage.bandcamp.com]

General
- The Beta will now put up a message box at startup if the "-log" Launch Option is enabled, as that negatively affects performance and people forget to turn it off sometimes.
- Reverted some Steam-related files on my end from Valve's beta versions to the most recent stable release. If you were having some problems with stability while running the game, see if these help. Maybe they do...?

Beta Experiments
- Doublejumping puts you in superjump state, meaning you can't call assists but your attacks will automatically turn to face the opponent. Not sure if I like it, but let's see what it does. Thanks Dime_x.
- Increased the preblock detection distance from 200px to 275px. Many low-hitting normals are longer than 200px but most are shorter than 275px.

Beowulf
- Tutorial fixes. Thanks RENDERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Big Band
- Increased the gap between punches and final hit of taunted SSJ on block from 1f to 5f.
- Taunted SSJ loses armor at the beginning of the final hit, instead of after it.
Ms. Fortune
- Added the ability to choose headless Cat Slide (QCT+K/236+K) and El Gato (QCB+K/214+K) assists. With her head on, Cat Slide becomes c.MK and El Gato becomes s.MK. Slide is a pretty good assist...
- Bugfix: H Cat Scratch assist will now do M version when headless because there technically is no headless H version. Nobody uses it anyway. :^) Thanks unintentionally, Stuff!

Cat Slide assist! Sucked that there was no way to get it as an assist even if you were intending to head off asap. Yay now MF has like 3 good assists instead of 1!
 
Today's Patch Notes BGM™ is an amazing Marble Madness cover by Disasterpeace:

As always, if you enjoy the song, support the artist! I owned Marble Madness for the Amiga and played it constantly, but I never beat the last level...

General
- The Beta will now put up a message box at startup if the "-log" Launch Option is enabled, as that negatively affects performance and people forget to turn it off sometimes.
- Reverted some Steam-related files on my end from Valve's beta versions to the most recent stable release. If you were having some problems with stability while running the game, see if these help. Maybe they do...?

Beta Experiments
- Doublejumping puts you in superjump state, meaning you can't call assists but your attacks will automatically turn to face the opponent. Not sure if I like it, but let's see what it does. Thanks Dime_x.
- Increased the preblock detection distance from 200px to 275px. Many low-hitting normals are longer than 200px but most are shorter than 275px.

Beowulf
- Tutorial fixes. Thanks RENDERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Big Band
- Increased the gap between punches and final hit of taunted SSJ on block from 1f to 5f.
- Taunted SSJ loses armor at the beginning of the final hit, instead of after it.
Ms. Fortune
- Added the ability to choose headless Cat Slide (QCT+K/236+K) and El Gato (QCB+K/214+K) assists. With her head on, Cat Slide becomes c.MK and El Gato becomes s.MK. Slide is a pretty good assist...
- Bugfix: H Cat Scratch assist will now do M version when headless because there technically is no headless H version. Nobody uses it anyway. :^) Thanks unintentionally, Stuff!
http://steamcommunity.com/games/208610/announcements/detail/195117040794939859
 
Dime_x said:
This is more than i thought i would get and more than i could ask for. I honestly dont think it will stick because according to the way people posted last time i mentioned it in this thread, people seem to really like double jump plus assist stuff... Probably cause its so non commital and such an easy way to move forward with little risk.

I dunno, I feel like there's no point to this change since Single Jump > Assist > Double Jump will still be a thing and is almost as good as Double Jump > Assist (and sometimes better).
 
Mike_Z said:
Post-flash? Why are you spending meter?
If he was close to you...
Meterless:
Filia/Fukua s.HP hits it, and they can jump-back or superjump-back j.LP into a full combo punish.
LP Updo hits it.
Excellabella hits it.
Dive Of Horus hits it.
L Beat Extend hits it.
Fortune can jump back and j.LP for a full combo punish, she doesn't even have to superjump.
Parasoul can jump back j.MP or sj back j.MP.
Double can jump back j.LP into either j.MK or barrel, or superjump back j.LP into anything, for a full punish.
Requires meter:
Squigly can LH SBO for a full punish.
Valentine CAN sj back into autocorrect Flatline but it's not easy to time.
S.O.L.:
Peacock can't punish unless she already has an SOID, but Beowulf is now a full screen away from her which is enough of a 'punish'. ;^)
What can PW do?
 
Not a fan of no double jumping assists in normal jump state. That goes against all past vs series games. I think we should revert and give some time for people to figure out strategies to counter double jump assist calls. It ended WAY to quickly. There are clear ways to counter this rather than taking it away. Also, no upward velocity on a jumping hk? I think we should leave that in a bit longer and see how people get used to it. Just my opinion.

I like the other changes though

EDIT: wow this was for all characters too? Fukua, double etc...? Now I REALLY disagree. These types of resets have been in the game since vanilla.
 
Last edited:
alexpi said:
Get nerfed
Painwheel isn't even at nerfed status. She's just forgotten.

Kinda like when "pinion is a regular special too" in the beta was going on and it was never mentioned during any of the streams.

And had that super impractical input.
 
Waiting to see how people like this new double jump thing. Could definitely be interesting; wish I could test it.
 
Jason said:
I dunno, I feel like there's no point to this change since Single Jump > Assist > Double Jump will still be a thing and is almost as good as Double Jump > Assist (and sometimes better).


Yes you could certainly be correct. When i proposed the change it was one of a bunch of proposed changes i made. I did see that single jump plus assist could be used, and yes like you said, is even better in certain circumstances.

But it also forces jumpjng assist calls to be done much more deliberately and forces a much quicker commitment. It also has less assist range than double jump and call assist on the way down. It also places the double jumper and there assist closer to each other in a more vulnerable position for happy birthdays as they land.

And finally, it makes the opponents assist timing much more predictable. Before you could single jump plus assist then double jump, or you could doublejump and come down with an AA assist now your timing would have to be more predictable and therefor more easily countered if you anticipated the strat.

Its alot of small things that hopefully add up to other forms of movement and assist calls to become at least a bit more attractive at neutral.

But either way im just speculating, i dont knwo how the change will affect things till i play it. And its 3:47 am out here in australia. My opponents wont be awake for another 5 hours or so.
 
Zazz said:
What can PW do?
Post-flash? Superjump backwards on the first or second frame you can act and clip his toes with a slightly delayed j.LP. Unbufferable, but at least it exists!
 
Played a little over 50 matches with the new double jump = super jump change. I kinda like it. Makes it so that I actually have to decide on whether or not I want to use my assist or stay in the air longer with another jump. Also makes fighting characters who's main strategy is double jump call assist land repeat(squigly <---) way better to fight against. Because they can still call assists and go to double jump height, but now they have to jump -> call assist -> jump instead of jump -> jump -> call assist.

Fukua stuff(sorry I keep complaining about her!):

I'd like to ask if it was possible if the input for Fukua's air fireball super was qcf PP -> direction? This is kinda a personal problem of mine, but it'd be nice if I could just hold the direction I want the fireball to go.

Also after playing Fukua even more from last time! Again, can Fukua's HK drill go back to the way it was in retail? I just played a parasoul player who hit me out of it with j.hp multiple times or ended up safe jumping it. How awful! And can Fukua be allowed to otg combo off of LK shadow? This is something I forgot to mention last time, but with the recovery/less frame advantage on block/ it being slower I don't think its unfair that she'd be able to combo off it using an OTG.
 
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I would like h drill to be a bit faster. Most times someone is up in the air they throw a normal i use drill and i have to waste a bar that looked like i got the hit. Just to make myself safe on block(not really since pushblock nullifies this) is 16-17 frames out of the question?
 
All low hitting projectiles have no otg.
 
Mr. X said:
All low hitting projectiles have no otg.
Isn't tremolo the only other low-hitting projectile (It can totally be OTG'd after)

Edit: Alright I guess there's beochair too
 
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Any comments on double jump auto turning. This seems like a nice gain.
 
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zeknife said:
Isn't tremolo the only other low-hitting projectile (It can totally be OTG'd after)

Edit: Alright I guess there's beochair too

Beowulf's chair can't be OTG'd I just checked??????????????

Gonna be honest, never felt like double jump assist call was overwhelming. GOOD, but not overwhelming. All this talk about how X type of jump + assist call makes for uninteresting neutral game, but that's just a result of assists even being in the game. Of course the point character can make non-committal, effective decisions. That's what assists ARE.
 
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I guess since I'm so used to SJ to make my character turn around and normal jump for them to face the same way from all previous games I played, this concept seems really backwards. I normal jump for specific reasons and SJ for specific reasons. Now it takes that away and makes me decide before I even jump what I want to do.
 
The change seems to me that it affects Valentine the most since she likes to jump and call assists a lot. Any thoughts on how it affects each specific double jumping character?
 
dekillsage said:
Played a little over 50 matches with the new double jump = super jump change. I kinda like it.
I get this feeling that I am absolutely going to hate it, hahaha. And honestly it sort of comes down to that, because I don't think it's how I want the game to feel?
Unless I can fix the turn-around thing, which I might do.
But I tried it...

dekillsage said:
I'd like to ask if it was possible if the input for Fukua's air fireball super was qcf PP -> direction? This is kinda a personal problem of mine, but it'd be nice if I could just hold the direction I want the fireball to go.
That's an interesting suggestion, so like, forward unless you hold DF or D? Hmm.

dekillsage said:
Also after playing Fukua even more from last time! Again, can Fukua's HK drill go back to the way it was in retail? I just played a parasoul player who hit me out of it with j.hp multiple times or ended up safe jumping it. How awful!
No part of that sounds awful to me. :^)

dekillsage said:
And can Fukua be allowed to otg combo off of LK shadow?
Nope. I mean, I could make it a mid and/or remove armor break and give you back OTG, but I'd rather you not have OTG.
 
So I'm sure I'm missing some nuance here, but why is double-jump assist okay and super-jump assist not okay?
 
This change nerfs every double jump character but doesn't impact Eliza, Filia, Beowulf, Painwheel, and Parasoul...

I guess I'm biased since I play a team of 3 double jump characters but I can't really feel good about this change.

It does give you a couple more crossup options but nothing that you can't already do with a super jump and they're pretty slow and not ambiguous at all anyway.
 
I've been told that Rekka Rekka Rekka adds 20 undizzy but if you did Rekka Rekka Slide the slide will add an additional 20 undizzy. (so 40 total if I wasn't clear)

So why is that exactly?
 
dekillsage said:
D:
And yup! @ the air fireball super
I can do 10/14/17 instead of 10/15/20 Drills though.

Spencer said:
So I'm sure I'm missing some nuance here, but why is double-jump assist okay and super-jump assist not okay?
DJ takes longer to get to the same height, is the theory.

Jason said:
This change nerfs every double jump character but doesn't impact Eliza, Filia, Beowulf, Painwheel, and Parasoul...
It also doesn't impact any doublejump character who doesn't doublejump. That's kinda an odd point to make?

Stuff said:
I've been told that Rekka Rekka Rekka adds 20 undizzy but if you did Rekka Rekka Slide the slide will add an additional 20 undizzy. (so 40 total if I wasn't clear)
So why is that exactly?
Because Slide is a different special, and Rekka hits mid. The fix would be to make all the Rekka hits add undizzy, so I'm sure you'd prefer it to stay as it is. :^)
 
You bet I'd keep it this way. Yay knowledge!
 
Im still waiting on the au peeps to get their shit together and play me, which hasnt happened yet, but i do have some quality of life viewpoints to share about playing against the computer offensively:

At first i didnt like it, if for no other reason than i found out that everytime i double jump i do it with an assist (if i have an assist ready) so not getting assists was at first problematic, even though i dont really spam double jump with double outside the new upback patch.

But then... I adjusted.

I took a literal look at how i was jumping and made my jumps more deliberate. I started using double as a more ground based character and using alot more dash single jumps and emptyjump variants.

I was still using double jumps but it was only for positioning on the screen or getting a good air jump angle. It wasnt to safely move places under the cover of assists... Thats what i was using regular jumps for, and regular jumps that are used with assists to move forward places are much more open to airthrows and take an amount of care to be used. I dont think that having to think ahead to use assists during a double jump is a good argument. All it requires is thinking ahead. It isnt asking the player to toss all the chips in the wind and go gambling with your life trying to beat out doublejump plus assist stuff, and it isnt asking the player to play a spacing war of attrition, much like how my BB was playing against tomos team yesterday.

The tldr of it was i felt much more dynamic in every action i was taking. No longer was i spamming a really good movement because it eclipses most other forms of movement in all purpose usefulness, i was using lots of different forms of movement and it feels less stale.


My opinion might change when i play against real people, but i doubt it. This feels very natural to me after the 5 minutes or so it took to acquaint myself to it. My take is basically the same as sages... More thought and more dynamic play. I also REALLY like the autocorrect on the double jumps... But i could see it go in order to differentiate them from super jumps.

But its up to mike at the end of the day of course. Im glad the change is being tried out to get everyones opinion, ots more than i thought would happen and im particularly grateful for the chance for people to see what im talking about.


Now i just need australia to wake the fuck up. I wont be able to play the game for a week because ill be at work in the middle of the desert tomorrow. Today is the only chance i have to check it out against real opponents.
 
Can beowulfs chair work like Fortunes head when its off the screen
 
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