• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

Skullheart's changes.

You know,
if it weren't for those handy dandy automatic notifications that allow you to follow the goings-ons of specific threads I'd be inclined to agree with the Yellowstone comparison.
But, the fact of the matter is, OT was specifically meant to be a place for "garbage bears" and there were plenty of other subforums where you could view the "wild, majestic, perfect-in-every-way master-race bears".
And if you wanted to look at bears eating garbage because you found it entertaining you could do that simultaneously.

It feels more like you cut off Yellowstone's dump to be owned by someone else than you did properly clean the place up.
 
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TheMightyBox said:
You know, if it weren't for those handy dandy automatic notifications that allow you to follow the goings-ons of specific threads I'd be inclined to agree with the Yellowstone comparison. But, the fact of the matter is, OT was specifically meant to be a place for "garbage bears" and there were plenty of other subforums where you could view the "wild, majestic, perfect-in-every-way master-race bears". And if you wanted to look at bears eating garbage because you found it entertaining you could do that simultaneously.

It feels more like you cut off Yellowstone's dump to be owned by someone else than you did properly clean the place up.
I feel like you're taking an imperfect metaphor much too seriously.
 
Night Phyre said:
It's pretty easy for me to look at people who only post in OT and wonder why they're even here, though. If those people never came back, I doubt this forum would be any worse off for it.
As a "bear", the reason for me being here was to be part of the community in some way. I'm not very good at the game, so there's absolutely no reason for me to post in the gameplay sections. I just have nothing to contribute. If I were to post a combo, it would be completely ignored. Afterall, no one cares about a noob combo when there are better combos using techniques I can't even begin to figure out. Even so, I do enjoy the game and so hanging out with people in the community makes me feel a little more connected to it. Not to mention that by hanging out with people on the forums, small groups are formed and that creates a "safe" environment for people to talk to eachother about the game.

The Wulf Den feels like a good example. Yeah, it was a thread about Beowulf, but it was almost always off topic and got closed along with everything else, so I think it counts. I joined the Den because I was interested in a character. I never actually expected to get good with him or ever contribute anything gameplay-wise for him, but I liked to talk about him with others who were also interested. We formed a pretty close-knit but very open group that now has it's own steam page and we've even held a tournament. That's right, a casual "bear" such as myself, participated in a streamed tournament. Not because of gameplay threads and combos, but because I found a group that I felt comfortable with. I knew that even if I totally sucked, I wouldn't be put down in any way.

Taking out the Off-Topic section and removing idle chit-chat from the forums doesn't encourage gameplay discussion. But it does remove the sense of community that we "bears" used to have. And to a certain degree, that can kill the wild, untamed passion that a lot of us have for this game. Sometimes, we just need a group of "bears" because they enjoy the game in a way we can relate to. In a way that's different than the way "park visitors", or even "park rangers" do. Eh, but that's just my take on it.
 
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You do know I posted in the Wulf Den, right? If you think you're arguing with somebody who wanted these changes, you're mistaken.
 
Night Phyre said:
You do know I posted in the Wulf Den, right? If you think you're arguing with somebody who wanted these changes, you're mistaken.
I'm not arguing, I know you posted there, and I never said you were an advocate for the changes. I'm just trying to shed a little light on a different perspective.
 
chickenwithtie said:
We're not 'targeting' you personally, Phyre. You posted a comment and we're reacting to it. It has weight because you're admin. Don't jump on defense like this
ARARGRAGRAHRAGHRAGARAHR YOU ALL EAT GARBAGE
Bucky Barkley said:
I'm not arguing, I know you posted there, and I never said you were an advocate for the changes. I'm just trying to shed a little light on a different perspective.
You're not illuminating me to a new perspective, though. I already get it.
 
Look, I was just reminding you guys that, "set in stone," almost never means, "set in stone," in reality.
 
Why didn't you save us, Phyre?
Thomas_and_Martha_Wayne_(Batman).jpg
 
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Let's all stop talking about bears for a hot minute.

@IsaVulpes raised plenty of valid points, more succinctly than just about anyone else I've talked to regarding this mess. I would say it's a mess by now; people clearly aren't happy, and as much as I would like to turn the other direction it's hampering the forum's ability to function.

These changes being pushed during the holidays was an honest mistake that I had to stick by because they were half-done before I had a chance to object; things still aren't done, but unfortunately I can't keep deflecting critique by saying "wait till it's done" when it's been a dang week and it's still not done! What was meant to be a quick rip of a bandaid turned into amputating a leg across several days.

As I said on page one, we're intending to address these complaints but aren't quite comfortable saying how just yet; jumping the gun was partially how we got into this mess, so we don't want to do it again.
 
Can we at least get some kind of clarification on who requested those changes? This is about the past. Future decisions won't affect the answer to this question.
I'd also like to know what other changes were planned. With a ginormous "These are now being discussed and subject to change" warning. But I mostly want to know what kind of feedback caused the these changes.
 
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Detective Q said:
Wusste gar nicht dass Vulpes so gut Deutsch kann.
I'm german.

Bucky Barkley said:
I'm not very good at the game, so there's absolutely no reason for me to post in the gameplay sections. I just have nothing to contribute. If I were to post a combo, it would be completely ignored. Afterall, no one cares about a noob combo when there are better combos using techniques I can't even begin to figure out.
See @Mods, this is something you have to fix.

@Bucky Barkley
It doesn't really matter what level you are at. Anyone will have questions at some point, and given the state of the forums, most of those aren't easily answered by just searching for a common term.

As long as you have pretty much *any* interest in improving, it should be possible for you to figure out some questions. And then you put *some* effort into finding an answer, and if you don't find one, you ask.

-----

For example:

You, a Parasoul player, lose a game against Cerebella /no chance/.
You try to remember what you got hit by. It was: A lot of Merry-Go-Rilla, grabbing you out of Downback.
So your next game against Cerebella you attempt to jump a bit more. Lose again, /no chance/.
You try to remember what you got hit by. It was: A lot of cLK, hitting you out of Upback.
So your next game against Cerebella you try to mix up Downback and Upback some. Lose again, /no chance/!
You keep getting hit by your opponent, who, seemingly "psychic" just destroys all your attempts at defence. Even your attempts at mashing reversal just get blocked and punished! What do now?

You sit in your chair and shake your head: No fucking idea.
Noticed a problem, tried to fix it, fix didn't work, now out of answers.

Then you enter the Parasoul subforums, open a thread called "Problem vs Bella" and explain your issue; something along the lines of "I run into this guy in Quickmatch sometimes, he plays Solo Bella and COMPLETELY destroys me! At first I got grabbed a lot, so I started to jump more, then I got hit by Lows a lot, so I tried to mix it up a bit, but I still seem to get hit all the time! How can I stop losing?" and (hopefully!) you are going to get some answers.
For example, a really useful answer would be:
"Add the guy from QM to your friendlist and ask him questions directly while playing more games against him! Also, the problem isn't that you can't defend against the Low/Throw mixup, but that you get put into the situation where the opponent can do it in the first place; you'll have to beat him at neutral. I don't know what level you're at and I'm no Parasoul expert, but here are some basic pointers: Sweeps break armor, so cHK might be helpful in stopping him from approaching. Launchers are generally decent antiairs, so try to hit Bella out of the air with your cHP! Also, Bellas best air normal (jMP) has really long startup, so if you just go in hard (rather than being scared and waiting until he managed to grind you down), it is quite possible to hit him out of the jMP startup and punch his face in instead! I hope some of this helped; sorry, I'm not very good myself so I can't give more direct advice!

P.S. It always helps if you are able to record some of your gameplay (both for yourself to check out what kinda problems you have, and for other people to be able to help you more accurately)"

Notice something in that answer? It's something anyone who has heard similar advice before can post, 1:1, for every character when fighting Bella (okay, you'll have to look up what the respective character's launcher is). You could even toss in some additional advice, such as "I'd stop playing QuickMatch, it doesn't really help you improve. Try to add people to your friendlist, especially other beginners from <Link to Beginner Matchmaking Thread> and fight them in longer sets, while talking! It's more fun and helps you improve faster"!

YOU (@Bucky Barkley) would *perfectly* be capable of both asking the aforementioned question (livening the forum up a bit, sparking some discussion, making people happy that something other than combos is going on), receiving an answer (learning something, getting better at the game) and even POSTING THE ANSWER I JUST WROTE IN ANY CHARACTER SUBFORUM WHERE A QUESTION SIMILAR TO THIS ONE POPS UP (helping someone else, feeling happy that you did a good thing, connecting with the community in a manner that's not "Your avatar gets a 7/10 from me, nice character with huge tits, but not that well drawn and it's a bit off-center")

-----

After I was 2 days into speedrunning SM, I had learned the first thing that was worth noting. From then on, I kept a lookout for other people who had trouble with said thing (there will ALWAYS be someone worse than you are!), and told them that I'm a new player myself but I recently learned it, and what I tried, and which method feels easiest for me.
I continued this with pretty much anything I learned, bit by bit I tried things out, learned something I didn't know before, figured out how it felt the most natural to me, saw someone have trouble, attempted to help them to the best of my ability.
At some point people started to think I was some kind of expert runner when I still had a time over 1 hour (read: bad), just because I actually sat down and attempted to help people who had trouble with some things, no matter how basic.
ANYONE CAN DO THIS. People just don't, because.. ?

-----

If you are unsure about things, then rather than posting "DO THIS", be more careful and post something along the lines of "I did this by accident, do you think it's good? It looked useful to me, but maybe I'm missing something? Or is it known already, then sorry!"; who knows, maybe you discovered a piece of tech that other people overlooked? Or if not, then again:
1) The forum got a thread, some discussion, good!
2) You learned something, good!
3) Other people who have the same idea you did can quickly check the thread and see why it's faulty rather than being forced to find that out by themselves, good!
-- It has 3 advantages and no disadvantage! What a great post; Go for it.
(Just spend some 30 seconds with the forum search prior, to try and figure out whether it got answered already)

-----

At this point, I spend half my forumtime in the "Training Diaries" section, because it's the only place where people are actually asking questions and I can say things.
I want to help, but how do I help people when I don't know what they need help with!
Instead of me being able to be all nice, I'm forced to dig through 20 unsorted random threads, knowing that 90% of people won't even open the subforum, let alone find the thread in which I said a thing on a given topic (which means rather than reaching all Parasoul players, my matchup tips will be read by maybe 3 people).

http://skullgirls.com/forums/index....verbal-diarrhea-resurrected.2619/#post-221779
Most(All?) of the things I say here could be in a Para-subforum thread titled "Problems vs Solo Bella"

http://skullgirls.com/forums/index.php?threads/im-mcpeanuts-i-made-a-thread.4471/page-6#post-228137
This could land in the Peacock subforum easily

http://skullgirls.com/forums/index.php?threads/wheres-the-win-button.2393/page-2#post-160070
This would definitely be better placed in the Parasoul subforum (that reminds me, I wanted to copypaste it there..)

etc

Just post pretty much any question you got in the char subforums!! People are generally glad to help. I'd be pretty happy if I could have something like the Parasoul talk from the Win-Button thread in the Para subsection, rather than digging through a subforum for interesting questions I can answer, while knowing that nobody is going to read said answers..

What is keeping you!! Nobody bites. Not even me.
 
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If you want to make a thread for those specific posts, feel free to @IsaVulpes
 
TheMightyBox said:
It feels more like you cut off Yellowstone's dump to be owned by someone else than you did properly clean the place up.
I think it'd be more apt to say that the place got nuked in order to get rid of the trash, because the fallout's made a ton of people leave the entire area and not want to come back for a while.
 
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Can we just hold a fucking poll for what should happen then? Since the mods that are responsible obviously aren't listening to what we're saying and to me it seems like a ton of people just want the forums to be restored to before.
 
ashxu said:
Since the mods that are responsible obviously aren't listening
Where are you taking this from?

Flotilla said:
These changes being pushed during the holidays was an honest mistake that I had to stick by because they were half-done before I had a chance to object; things still aren't done, but unfortunately I can't keep deflecting critique by saying "wait till it's done" when it's been a dang week and it's still not done! What was meant to be a quick rip of a bandaid turned into amputating a leg across several days.

As I said on page one, we're intending to address these complaints but aren't quite comfortable saying how just yet; jumping the gun was partially how we got into this mess, so we don't want to do it again.

What has happened isn't cool, and I sure don't agree with it, but I don't think hastily restoring the OT in some messy way is gonna make anybody happy either?
Just wait a bit until the mods have things figured out.. we had the holidays, and now we got New Year's, people are likely sorta busy.

I doubt it helps anybody to try and start a revolution and repeatedly call the mods useless dumpsters that should get exchanged for new mods asap or whatever
 
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IsaVulpes said:
Where are you taking this from?
They keep saying that they're willing to listen to community feedback, but with all of the crazy stuff that's been going on that mods have been involved in, I can't help but get the feeling that that statement's just lip service. I'd like to get some actual evidence that they're listening and accounting for the community reaction instead of just believing in their words.
 
ashxu said:
Can we just hold a fucking poll for what should happen then? Since the mods that are responsible obviously aren't listening to what we're saying and to me it seems like a ton of people just want the forums to be restored to before.
That's not gonna happen, simply because it's already pretty clear what most user's feelings on the matter are: the majority of the feedback has not been in support of this change. I don't think anybody needs a formal poll to clarify that.

shoryusatsu999 said:
They keep saying that they're willing to listen to community feedback, but with all of the crazy stuff that's been going on that mods have been involved in, I can't help but get the feeling that that statement's just lip service. I'd like to get some actual evidence that they're listening and accounting for the community reaction instead of just believing in their words.
I'm telling you right now that this is the case. The mod team is not a homogenous group, and we are actively and energetically discussing how to move forward.
 
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I also dislike the silence and the impression that we are being ignored.
But before the current events I never had anything to complain about the mods. So as much as I think they goofed with these changes, I still don't think they should be called incompetent/all get fired.
And like Flotilla and IsaVulpes said. We are in the middle of the holiday season. These changes happening now made things very awkward for both sides.
For now I can only hope we get the information we want as soon as possible.
 
Night Phyre said:
That's not gonna happen, simply because it's already pretty clear what most user's feelings on the matter are: the majority of the feedback has not been in support of this change. I don't think anybody needs a formal poll to clarify that.
Then why are we even talking about this? Why haven't you guys reverted the changes?

It's also pretty clear that we're all pretty mad and don't trust the mod team anymore to make "changes". Why does SH need changes? We all want off-topic and the other stuff back. No one wants whatever changes you guys have in plan.
 
Personally concerning Gameplay posting
I've been afraid to post in Gameplay section because PC version keeps changing and I feel like whatever I put there will be obsolete in next week's patch or something
I only have PS3 version so it's weird to try to sit and discuss changes that I can't get my hands on
I figure that it's even worse for 360 peeps

But like if I find a choice Fortune burst bait or something I'll put it somewhere
 
Ryin said:
I also dislike the silence and the impression that we are being ignored.
yo i was trying to tell you guys bear stories and you were all like NIGHT PHYRE Y U DO DIS?
And like Flotilla and IsaVulpes said. We are in the middle of the holiday season. These changes happening now made things very awkward for both sides.
For now I can only hope we get the information we want as soon as possible.
I wouldn't expect any serious developments on this issue until the new year. That's the holidays, for you.
ashxu said:
Then why are we even talking about this? Why haven't you guys reverted the changes?
It's also pretty clear that we're all pretty mad and don't trust the mod team anymore to make "changes". Why does SH need changes? We all want off-topic and the other stuff back. No one wants whatever changes you guys have in plan.
First of all, public outcry is not a reason to make or unmake anything. If things change back, it wouldn't be because some people don't like it, it would be IF a conclusion was reached that the changes were ill-advised/counter-productive. Second of all, please stop referring to the mods as, "you guys." We're not internet Hashashin, bound by sacred oath or some shit. We all have different opinions, and that applies to this issue, too. There are mods who agree with you, and mods that do not. We're discussing it.
 
I don't know how much more evidence you need that the changes are stupid. Even disregarding public outcry, site traffic has dwindled.
 
Night Phyre said:
I'm telling you right now that this is the case. The mod team is not a homogenous group, and we are actively and energetically discussing how to move forward.
I get what you're trying to say, but I don't feel like I can trust what you're saying. The modposts regarding this subject haven't given me the impression that what you're saying is the case.
 
ashxu said:
I don't know how much more evidence you need that the changes are stupid. Even disregarding public outcry, site traffic has dwindled.
I am not in charge of this site. I cannot make changes based on my whim alone. You want things to change back? Stop using words like stupid.
shoryusatsu999 said:
I get what you're trying to say, but I don't feel like I can trust what you're saying. The modposts regarding this subject haven't given me the impression that what you're saying is the case.
Well, I think I've been pretty straightforward. There's little else I can do to convince you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
I'm not blaming you personally, stop victimizing yourself.

I'm not going to stop using the word stupid because that's what it is and it seems like no matter how many people say so too in different ways (with or without using a synonym for stupid), the only response people get is "we're listening but we're working on it".
 
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ashxu said:
I'm not going to stop using the word stupid because that's what it is and it seems like no matter how many people say so too in different ways (with or without using a synonym for stupid), the only response people get is "we're listening but we're working on it".
We're not, "working on it." We're talking about it, and at the end of that discussion, things will happen. You are not going to be privy to that conversation, that's how internal discussions go. Nobody is going to revert the changes right this second, so what can I concretely do for you that isn't (A) a change beyond my power to make, or (B) punching a hole in the confidence of a private conversation? I'm willing to bet there's nothing, because all you want is an immediate change.

Here I am flat out telling you that there are mods advocating for you and you're honestly not really giving a shit. You're making a brother really regret putting in an effort on this.
 
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IsaVulpes you can suck my dick.
From me that is both an insult AND an endearment.

Keep being real son, you too Night Phyre.
 
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Anybody who thinks new players are patronized or look down upon isn't using the same Skullheart I am. This community is one of the most helpful and friendliest I've ever been a part of. Nobody has ever been shit on for not being good at the game or not understanding how it works; quite the opposite, they are given nothing but help and support.

I don't know why "I'm new so I have nothing to contribute/my thoughts don't matter" keeps coming up in these conversations because it is not true.
 
Bucky Barkley said:
As a "bear", the reason for me being here was to be part of the community in some way. I'm not very good at the game, so there's absolutely no reason for me to post in the gameplay sections. I just have nothing to contribute. If I were to post a combo, it would be completely ignored. Afterall, no one cares about a noob combo when there are better combos using techniques I can't even begin to figure out. Even so, I do enjoy the game and so hanging out with people in the community makes me feel a little more connected to it. Not to mention that by hanging out with people on the forums, small groups are formed and that creates a "safe" environment for people to talk to eachother about the game.

I'd expand that a liiittle bit: i'm a terrible player, BUT i love the creative and artistic side of the game. gorgeous sprites, art, a captivating world, soundtrack and all the possibilities it opened.

That includes thinking about what isn't in the game, like the other characters in voting, how they would play, how their story should be, etc. it's more of a "share your dream" than "hate the reality", really. Ideas change, what's not done isn't set in stone and room for speculation makes an intresting topic. Hell, we had original characters posted here with some good art n'all, inspired by Skullgirls.

Then, there's the OTHER part: skullgirls is part of my, "games in general" intrest, that's one form of entretainment i love. This game brings A LOT of references, many from things i like, some from things i actually want to see some day (guren lagann on the list, thanks bella)

I'm a skullgirls fan and a (sad excuse for a) player, and that is why i'm here. But i'm more than that and if i have space to discuss, share and see more things i could like, i'd be here even more. On the other hand, limiting me to nothing more than skullgirls don't serve as an incentive to hang around, even for SG-related stuff. feels restrictive.

I believe others here share the sentiment. even the competitive players want to be part of skullheart as more than the player, as the person behind the arcade stick/controller/keyboard/hitbox

---

On an side note, i'd like to know about how much backlash Lab Zero gets for "not following" what other people imagined, or even what was proposed as a mechanic. is it THAT bad? Think for example the "blood splatter" mechanic once proposed for eliza: it didn't got into the game, and people still seems to love her



For now all i can do is hope for the best. take your time, think it thorougly, don't rush it. Slow and steady wins the race
 
FuLLBLeeD said:
Anybody who thinks new players are patronized or look down upon isn't using the same Skullheart I am. This community is one of the most helpful and nicest communities I've ever been a part of. Nobody has ever been shit on for not being good at the game or not understanding how it works; quite the opposite, they are given nothing but help and support.

I don't know why "I'm new so I have nothing to contribute/my thoughts don't matter" keeps coming up in these conversations because it is not true.
That situation may be true in your experience, but that does not mean that your experience is true for everyone. Skullheart has its douchebags like any other community. You've just had the good fortune of avoiding them.
 
shoryusatsu999 said:
That situation may be true in your experience, but that does not mean that your experience is true for everyone. Skullheart has its douchebags like any other community. You've just had the good fortune of avoiding them.

If you look in the Beginner's Section, you see nothing but exactly what I described. I struggle to think of another fighting game forum that goes as out of its way to help new players as this one. Its a really good thing and something I'd like to see more of.

If you think its the opposite, quite frankly I'd like to see examples because I see nothing but new players getting tons of help on this site.
 
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DukeMagus said:
On an side note, i'd like to know about how much backlash Lab Zero gets for "not following" what other people imagined, or even what was proposed as a mechanic. is it THAT bad? Think for example the "blood splatter" mechanic once proposed for eliza: it didn't got into the game, and people still seems to love her

To be fair, I've seen people upset over the lack of blood mechanics in Eliza.
HOWEVER, that was because the people who were upset voted for her because of the blood mechanics, it's not this idea of "I thought she was gonna be the second coming of Jesus Christ and that didn't happen so I'm mad about it".
 
FuLLBLeeD said:
If you look in the Beginner's Section, you see nothing but exactly what I described. I struggle to think of another fighting game forum that goes as out of its way to help new players as this one. Its a really good thing and something I'd like to see more of.

If you think its the opposite, quite frankly I'd like to see examples because I see nothing but new players getting tons of help on this site.
The Beginner's section. You're not thinking about the transition from Beginner's section to the actual gameplay section or people who don't even go to that section before going to the gameplay section.
 
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