• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

Solobella nerf needed.

NY_Jailhouse said:
this man just complained about hsien-ko not getting nerfed while phoenix wright got nerfed. 0_o

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=6921927


DDB said:
Did I hear Stars

Nemesis.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vladislav_Paizis, Silverharp and Broseidon Rex
CaioLugon said:
Because hsien-ko is op just like bella.
Yeah, ever since they gave her all those command grabs with those giant metal claws and that super grab Ultimate ZombieStopper
 
  • Like
Reactions: Clawsome Bombs
hsienko has a command grab, that automatically makes her not bottom tier. i dont care that when you use the heavy version her whiff animation pushes the opp back far enough so that the next one will repeatedly whiff, over and over again. a command grab is a command grab right???
 
Every Darktstalkers character has at least one command throw, all of which can only be inputted with Medium or Heavy Punch/Kick so that they can't be tech'd.
 
Hsien Ko is a well developed tournament viable character in Vampire Savior, don't know why she sux so much in MVC3. Too bad most peoples' thoughts on darkstalkers characters is based on the marvel games, play Vampire Savior if u want to see the real genius of their designs.

I'm going to rant, I lost a laggy time out match yesterday...we both had 2 characters left (but I was a trio, opp was a duo). I kill one of his/her characters, you here the death yell or whatever but the lag is so bad the person is able to switch to their other character. Somehow the character I killed is still alive. I lose in time out.

So far my observance on character popularity...

Top tier
Fortune, Filia, Valentine

Mid tier
Double, Peacock, Bella

Low tier
Parasoul, Squigly, Painwheel
 
ive been hit with that so many times.then i tried it.

only works when someone isnt mixing you up.
 
I don't know why this thread gives me highlights, however..

This thread is pretty cute.
 
MagicManCooker said:
Oh and a habit I find useful is that whenever I feel a character is overpowered is to try that character for myself.
It helps to put things in context.

I did that with Filia/Fortune and all that happened was I beat a bunch of people with Filia/Fortune and still have no idea what to do.
 
We have some silly shit in GAMEPLAY, huh?
 
hlvn said:
I did that with Filia/Fortune and all that happened was I beat a bunch of people with Filia/Fortune and still have no idea what to do.
Fight better people I guess?
I mean if you never lose with them it'll be hard to find their weaknesses.
 
In most other fighting games, the slow characters usually deals more damage and has more health.

But since this game the fast characters can deal just as much damage with combos and everyone has the same health, slow characters just get the short end of the stick.
 
Last edited:
123stw said:
In most other fighting games, the slow characters usually deals more damage and has more health.

But since this game the fast characters can deal just as much damage with combos and everyone has the same health, slow characters just get the short end of the stick.
In sg there are a lot more things to be thought about rather than just slow or fast good or bad, high damage or low. There isn't really any slow characters in the game...well not traditionally slow anyways.

And also most of the characters that are "slow" such as Bella and pw and double and parasoul have great invincible or armored moves to make up for their slowness. Painwheel is different in that she has flight to speed her up rather than great reversals.


All in all it pretty much balances out as far as that goes.

The real things that cause imbalances in sg are more of comparing things such as run speed and dash speed, air normal priority, safe on block super, great assist and overall movement options and the speed of them. (Bella has run/dash jump/double jump so she's no slouch in the movement department)

Most other things have a tendency to balance each other out across all the characters.
 
Dime_x said:
In sg there are a lot more things to be thought about rather than just slow or fast good or bad, high damage or low. There isn't really any slow characters in the game...well not traditionally slow anyways.

And also most of the characters that are "slow" such as Bella and pw and double and parasoul have great invincible or armored moves to make up for their slowness. Painwheel is different in that she has flight to speed her up rather than great reversals.

All in all it pretty much balances out as far as that goes.

The real things that cause imbalances in sg are more of comparing things such as run speed and dash speed, air normal priority, safe on block super, great assist and overall movement options and the speed of them. (Bella has run/dash jump/double jump so she's no slouch in the movement department)

Most other things have a tendency to balance each other out across all the characters.
Fast characters has even better reversal options than slow ones. Fillia easily has the best reversal with updo/super that can be continued into a full combo. Fortune's super scratch also has huge amount of invincibility time. Also she has head roll and nomnomnom cat head. Their options can all be easily confirmed into combo, doesn't require a meter, safe on block, and is mashable.

Bella's super is great for reversal but cannot lead to much more damage. Battle Butt requires charge, can't hit cross overs, can be beaten out of, and cannot confirm into more damage afterward. Both are punishable on block. Parasoul's reversal is nowhere near as good because pillar needs to be held down for 2 seconds, which makes it situational and cannot be mashed.

And let's not compare Bella's mobility with Fillia or Fortune, or compare how many spammable safe on block moves each of them has.

For Parasoul it's mostly the better air normal that makes up for it, between j.lp, j.lk, and j.hp she can shut down a lot of people's air game. I am not too sure about Bella, you can either play her as a high risk high reward character, or you can zone with her. So it depends.
 
Last edited:
DukeMagus said:
"solobella nerf needed" is like our very own meme huh?
I think "nerf Peacock" is ranked a little higher.
 
123stw said:
Fast characters has even better reversal options than slow ones. Fillia easily has the best reversal with updo/super that can be continued into a full combo. Fortune's super scratch also has huge amount of invincibility time. Also she has head roll and nomnomnom cat head. Their options can all be easily confirmed into combo, doesn't require a meter, safe on block, and is mashable.

Bella's super is great for reversal but cannot lead to much more damage. Battle Butt requires charge, can't hit cross overs, can be beaten out of, and cannot confirm into more damage afterward. Both are punishable on block. Parasoul's reversal is nowhere near as good because pillar needs to be held down for 2 seconds, which makes it situational and cannot be mashed.

And let's not compare Bella's mobility with Fillia or Fortune, or compare how many spammable safe on block moves each of them has.

For Parasoul it's mostly the better air normal that makes up for it, between j.lp, j.lk, and j.hp she can shut down a lot of people's air game. I am not too sure about Bella, you can either play her as a high risk high reward character, or you can zone with her. So it depends.


:) you are certainly entitled to your opinions... But much of that is old or wrong:

Fortune has no safe on block reversal. Hk fiber is terrible on block, all her supers are as well. But as far as straight up reversal options, she does have good ones.


Filias reversal is pretty sub par on point actually. It has little range, and requires a forward input during which she can easily get hit since she generally has to do it when the opponent is VERY upclose. But yes she at least has the option even if no good filia really uses it on defense (though many use it on offense as a frame trap... But that's meh)

Parasouls reversal is better on point since it doesn't require a forward input and since it can be done with a quicker motion plus it can be done into a hard to punish on block super.

Bella's headbutt has massive range since it has a forward moving component to it, and that alone makes it much better as a straight reversal than just about anything most other characters have sans fortune.

Er to be continued... I gtg

And yes fortune has a good amount of movement options but most of them are subpar... Like peacocks. Her dash is slow and short ranged and her double jump doesn't have any particularly scary normals to deal with. Fortune is best at turtling from what I've played against and seen. Khaos an attack with her well as can guitalex... But that's more about the player than the character.


She's good no doubt.. The best character in the game perhaps, but not because of a stifling offense.

Tbc
 
Well I don't think we will ever come to any kind of agreement if you claim that DP reversal is too hard to do without getting hit. In other fighters like KOF you will have to do 2 half circle back just to get a super reversal out. Charge reversal by contrast will always has the inherent 2 second limitation, which is exceptionally bad for pillar since you lose your charge by blocking high. Charging also telegraphs a lot, and if I ever see a bella crouchblock from a distance I know to jump in blocking with an assist call to bait the battle butt.

Also the 2 best fortune non super reversals are the cat strike rolling start, with extremely long invulnerability time, and nomnomnom with her head to interrupt whatever it is you are doing. Cat head in general is used far more as a get out of jail free card than fiber, and of course, people mash supers in the middle of a combo to prevent resets.
 
Last edited:
Dime_x said:
Fortune has no safe on block reversal. Hk fiber is terrible on block, all her supers are as well.
Headroll is invinc and +2 on block
Fiber is -14? now but has so much pushback that if the opponent blocks it in the air, it's often not possible for him to punish it at all or without going great lengths (eg Parasoul can at some distances do some ..rather tight.. land-dash-s.LP punish, but that ain't too reliable)
Fiber also has the UNIQUE (for a DP) property of being able to cancel the entire recovery part into Super, which makes people scared of punishing cus you're still sitting in a 50/50 after blocking it

Her Headon-Super is -11? Or something, which is actually not easy to punish with plenty characters (eg Painwheels fastest normal is I think 8f? So she got a 2f window to punish it)
Her Headoff-Supers are only *really* punisheable with invinc moves or throws cus everything else sits on the hilarious threat of getting nommed out of the punish

Filias reversal is pretty sub par on point actually. It has little range, and requires a forward input during which she can easily get hit since she generally has to do it when the opponent is VERY upclose. But yes she at least has the option even if no good filia really uses it on defense (though many use it on offense as a frame trap... But that's meh)
This is just complete bork. All DPs ever suck now? And what do you need "Range" for (aside from the point that the range is not bad at all)? You know, if you reversal.. that generally implies that the opponent is pretty close. We're not talking about AAing here (and you always got the option to just mash Greggor - which is a QCB AND AirOk).

Parasouls reversal is better on point since it doesn't require a forward input and since it can be done with a quicker motion plus it can be done into a hard to punish on block super.
It also doesn't confirm into a combo, is hilariously easy to make whiff as it doesn't cover the area above her at all AND IT NEEDS CHARGE!!! Have you ever actually tried using this thing?

123stw said:
Charge reversal by contrast will always has the inherent 2 second limitation
Charge time in SG is 35f iirc (little over half a second)
 
Last edited:
IsaVulpes said:
Charge time in SG is 35f iirc (little over half a second)
Still, whenever I use parasoul there are a lot of times when I simply cannot charge, and I can never be sure if it's fully charged or would a s.hk come out and I eat a full combo. I know it's not actually 2 seconds but even 35f is a really long time in this game. Plus pushblock is 25f so you can't pushblock cancel pillar unless you been holding down for 10 additional frames.

Also trying to charge for pillar makes me a sitting duck against throws, since a lot of focus goes into when I can actually use it.

I wish pillar is DP motion. Then I can push block cancel and f.HP bait all day long.
 
Last edited:
123stw said:
Still, whenever I use parasoul there are a lot of times when I simply cannot charge, and I can never be sure if it's fully charged or would a s.hk come out and I eat a full combo. I know it's not actually 2 seconds but even 35f is a really long time in this game. Plus pushblock is 25f so you can't pushblock cancel pillar unless you been holding down for 10 additional frames.

Also trying to charge for pillar makes me a sitting duck against throws, since a lot of focus goes into when I can actually use it.

I wish pillar is DP motion. Then I can push block cancel and f.HP bait all day long.

Can't you charge buffer? I've seen some Parasouls get a ton of tears out.

As far as pillar anything... zero sympathy. If our only complaint is that it isn't as good as updo, then we have set the bar freaking high.
 
IsaVulpes said:
Headroll is invinc and +2 on block
Fiber is -14? now but has so much pushback that if the opponent blocks it in the air, it's often not possible for him to punish it at all or without going great lengths (eg Parasoul can at some distances do some ..rather tight.. land-dash-s.LP punish, but that ain't too reliable)
I don't think headroll is grab invincible. And I think you can block fiber and then call assist for the punish, can't you?

But, yeah, no, Fortune's pretty bullshit sometimes. But every character can do bullshit things, so I'm not sure if I should get mad at her or the game.
 
Spencer said:
Can't you charge buffer? I've seen some Parasouls get a ton of tears out.

As far as pillar anything... zero sympathy. If our only complaint is that it isn't as good as updo, then we have set the bar freaking high.
It's not a complain, it was just a response to Dime X who feels that updo isn't as good as pillar. Or how charge motion is better than DP motion.

I think Parasoul is fine with her jumping normals, she has good enough tools to keep herself from being in that position to begin with. Between her j.lp, j.lk, and j.hp, if pillar is DP motion most people wouldn't even be able to get in.

Zidiane said:
I don't think headroll is grab invincible. And I think you can block fiber and then call assist for the punish, can't you?

But, yeah, no, Fortune's pretty bullshit sometimes. But every character can do bullshit things, so I'm not sure if I should get mad at her or the game.
wells, starts off as white box, and becomes blue after the head comes off. So it's grab invincible at startup.

My guess is technically it has to be done this way so the change of state doesn't get interrupted, will probably cause all kinds of glitches if it did.
 
Last edited:
Zidiane said:
I don't think headroll is grab invincible. And I think you can block fiber and then call assist for the punish, can't you?

But, yeah, no, Fortune's pretty bullshit sometimes. But every character can do bullshit things, so I'm not sure if I should get mad at her or the game.
Headroll, updo and pillar are all throw invincible.
 
CaioLugon said:
Headroll, updo and pillar are all throw invincible.
I've thrown Fortune out of head roll. Maybe it's not fully throw invincible?
 
You can throw Fortune out of headroll, though for a few frames at the start it IS throw invincible. Not for long, though.
 
Idk if vulpes actually plays this game. Also...that one post that I posted about not rebutting idiots... Goes here as well.

I'm tired of arguing with dumbs.
 
Dime_x said:
Idk if vulpes actually plays this game. Also...that one post that I posted about not rebutting idiots... Goes here as well.

I'm tired of arguing with dumbs.
He's right in his latest post, though. :/
 
  • Like
Reactions: IsaVulpes
Ignore function exists for a reason...
 
Zidiane said:
I've thrown Fortune out of head roll. Maybe it's not fully throw invincible?
Sorry, I only tested on traning mode with these moves as reversals to see if they would beat throw resets, so I didn't go very deep on it.
 
Dime_x said:
Parasouls reversal is better on point since it doesn't require a forward input and since it can be done with a quicker motion plus it can be done into a hard to punish on block super.

misc-jackie-chan-l.png
 
CaioLugon said:
Sorry, I only tested on traning mode with these moves as reversals to see if they would beat throw resets, so I didn't go very deep on it.
Ah, I see. Well, you could also delay the throw (in such a situation) and get Fortune out of it.
 
KhaosMuffins said:
He's right in his latest post, though. :/
Concerning what?


I don't look toward theory fighter crap to form my opinions. If you look at any good parasoul game versus any good filia game you will see a lot more reversal pillars from parasoul than you will see reversal updos from filia players.

"In general"

Also if you read his post(s) he usually has some sort of "in this case" scenario to go with his points.

My point:

Hk fiber upper is easy to punish

His point: not if you block it in the air

... So don't block it in the air? I mean... Yeah... Obvious is obvious. And it is punishable in the air by most supers especially with super freeze hitstop... Though that is theory fighter I know I would be able to do it if I were looking for it.

Fortunes ground super hard to punish? I remember him saying that it was an easy punish in some thread weeks ago... But whatever.

Either way, mash throw on block and it's always a guaranteed punish... No timing or t-mode required and completely untechable because fortune is in recovery and that's a 4k damage punish so it aint nothing to scoff at, at all.

Parasouls reversal is bad in certain reset situations because it it requires a down charge... This is true. But in reversal situations where she needs a reversal after coming out of blockstun or ground recovering. It is one of the best reversals in the game.

Also, like I said, all of this is easily seeable in any good players games.

So no, I don't know what you are on about besides the fact that fortune has good reversals.
At which pointi wasn't even thinking about head toss but yes head toss is good in almost the same way that updo is:

If you know that the opponent will do something grounded to you then it is good... But wiff it on a flying /double jumping opponent and it is terrible. So.. You need to make sure that it doesn't wiff on aerial people...and that alone takes much of its power away.

It's best use... Much like updo, is for grounded frame traps... It isn't the best move for stopping offense though it certainly can be used for that, it just isn't great for that from what I've seen and played against.
 
I know how we'll nerf Solobella.

We'll prevent her from getting any assists, ever.
 
  • Like
Reactions: destruction_adv
Dime_x said:
Stuff
I disagree with what he said about Fortune's supers since those are easily PBGC-able or able to be grabbed, but everything else he said is correct. Some characters can air super and hit Fortune out of a blocked Fiber Upper, but even then this is still tough to do and only Fortune can reliably punish it at max height. The opponent can also jump block + call assist (which I say is the best way to deal with Fiber Upper-happy Fortunes), but you have to guess that the DP is coming beforehand.

Also, Parasoul having to charge for her DP makes it worse than Updo for getting out of pressure (and it doesn't reverse momentum like Updo or Fiber Upper). I won't disagree with Pillar being one of the best on-point reversals in the game, but it's no Updo or Fiber Upper.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back