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Eliza SPOILERS - Eliza Story Mode Discussion

FakeangeL said:
Let me put this in a very simple manner: Skullgirls has lovecraftian influences in it. From Little Insmouth to Dagons to Venus. Remember her? She was a being that the human mind could not comprehend, she could bend space in whatever form she saw fit and by the time you saw what you thought was her, you were already trapped with no way out.

Say, what does this reminds you of? If you thought about the Elder Gods in Cthulhu mythos, you were correct

You're cherry picking your details to support a very narrow interpretation though. Yes, SG has plenty of Lovecraftian references, but everything is basically a reference to something in SG.

Trinitism is very clearly heavily Christian themed, using a St. Peter's Cross, typical christian styled cathedrals and religious figures, a Trinity of divine beings, etc

There used to be an old stage concept called "Golgotha" that was pretty big in story terms (Golgotha being the place Jesus was crucified), and both it and Gehenna are locations just outside Jerusalem - a major location in the stories of Jesus. It actually looks like Gehenna has replaced Golgotha in lore terms.

To go even further Dumah is apparently of Egyptian origin, a powerful angelic ruler that was struck down by God and Moses and sentenced to rule over Gehenna, a flaming prison where all sinners are sent for punishment. Dumah has 3 powerful angels at his command and his duty is to punish people every day, but releases them on the 7th before pulling them back and punishing them again.

(3 angels - the Trinity. 7 days - 7 years between Skullgirls)

Hell, half of Eliza is almost literally claiming she's an Egyptian God.

All of these mythologies have resurrection myths. It seems a little narrow minded to latch specifically onto the Old Ones above all just because a few details line up and one town has a cute referential name, and then even moreso to outright claim things like "Living Weapons are not Parasites" as fact.
 
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Raging_Zoroark said:
The question is: how Marie still have power even after the skullheart being destroyed? It shows clearly that she's still a skullgirl (her eyes still have the mark and her hand is only bones) so there's still Skullheart's influence over her. Maybe the trinity made another skullheart to give power to Marie to continue fighting? Maybe Aeon was able to summon another Marie from an alternate dimension? Who knows (besides Alex, of course)?
Maybe it has to do w/ her wish. Maybe it was along the lines of I wish to kill al medicis and not even death can stop me. Idk just a theoryl
 
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BlackRoseAngel said:
Sekhmet feeling up Eliza's fleshy leg with her skeletal hand really drives home the sexiness.

I notta perv.............oh who am I kidding? I'm a total sexual deviant...*cries*
And them Sehkmet boobs...
 
Also, for what it's worth, I think that Marie is acting on her own free will in that final scene. My version of events has a wounded and desperate Double/Lamia resurrecting Marie, but releasing her from the leash of a Skullgirl in exchange for taking down Eliza.
 
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Cellsai said:
You're cherry picking your details to support a very narrow interpretation though. Yes, SG has plenty of Lovecraftian references, but everything is basically a reference to something in SG.

Trinitism is very clearly heavily Christian themed, using a St. Peter's Cross, typical christian styled cathedrals and religious figures, a Trinity of divine beings, etc

There used to be an old stage concept called "Golgotha" that was pretty big in story terms (Golgotha being the place Jesus was crucified), and both it and Gehenna are locations just outside Jerusalem - a major location in the stories of Jesus. It actually looks like Gehenna has replaced Golgotha in lore terms.

To go even further Dumah is apparently of Egyptian origin, a powerful angelic ruler that was struck down by God and Moses and sentenced to rule over Gehenna, a flaming prison where all sinners are sent for punishment. Dumah has 3 powerful angels at his command and his duty is to punish people every day, but releases them on the 7th before pulling them back and punishing them again.

(3 angels - the Trinity. 7 days - 7 years between Skullgirls)

Hell, half of Eliza is almost literally claiming she's an Egyptian God.

All of these mythologies have resurrection myths. It seems a little narrow minded to latch specifically onto the Old Ones above all just because a few details line up and one town has a cute referential name.

Which half would that be? XD Sorry...

I agree with you. Skullgirls has it's own mythos and it's a little silly to assume everything is based on Lovecraftian writings. It's not uncommon for writers to borrow concepts from other works, I know I do, but it seems a little cheesy and possibly insulting to the writers to slap the label "Lovecraftian" on the game when it's something they crafted themselves.

Cellsai said:
Also, for what it's worth, I think that Marie is acting on her own free will in that final scene. My version of events has a wounded and desperate Double/Lamia resurrecting Marie, but releasing her from the leash of a Skullgirl in exchange for taking down Eliza.

I kind of like the idea that Marie takes the power for herself, as it's been stated time and time again that her will is too strong for the Skullheart to take and that Double is bidding her time, supporting Marie's desire for revenge against The Medicis in hopes that it would corrupt her spirit more quickly. (She who fights monsters...)

The being said, it could quite well be that Double/Lamia is, in fact, submitting to Marie out of far greater desperation. How about that twist there, M Night Shamalamadingdong? XD

I can't spell that guy's name...
 
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image.jpg

T-they forgot her boney hand....
 
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I see Double not as such a evil villain, but now more of a mother who is very saddened and angered because of the loss of her daughters.
 
ink_deer said:
I see Double not as such a evil villain, but now more of a mother who is very saddened and angered because of the loss of her daughters.

Although Double would not be the mother, but rather a simulacrum of sorts. Which would explain why she is called Double in the first place.

Gimmie$20$Dolla said:
T-they forgot her boney hand....

Blasphemy...
 
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BlackRoseAngel said:
Although Double would not be the mother, but rather a simulacrum of sorts. Which would explain why she is called Double in the first place.



Blasphemy...
She is Queen Lamia, Venus & Aeon are princesses. I'm pretty sure their related.
 
Goddamn. I never expected to feel bad for
DOUBLE of all people.

But yeah, I really like how this story provided quite a bit of insight into the parasites, Aeon, Venus, and their mom.

Eliza herself is one cold motherfucker.
 
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ink_deer said:
Double said "...You destroyed my kingdom..." And how Eliza murdered her daughters; aeon and Venus
I'm getting the vibe that whatever Double is she thinks she's Lamia. Eliza doesn't seem very convinced.

She's so unconvinced in fact I kinda think Eliza didn't stop at just killing Lamia's daughters back in the day.
 
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I agree about how Eliza wasn't convinced that Double was Lamia, or maybe Eliza doesn't know how she did those things to her.
 
BrandX+ said:
WOW HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT KIND OF MISTAKE???
Every one of Squigly's other character portraits for when she speaks covers both or at least the skeletal hand. She actually only has one image that shows her hand at all, and it's the fleshy one. I imagine those images were used as the basis for drawing this new one, so it'd be easy enough to forget she's missing the flesh on the non-visible one.

The characters change pretty constantly in story mode art anyway :P I had mad trouble settling on a Minette design when I was trying to keep her on-model in Ask-Minette at the start. She looks different when drawn by every in game artist!
 
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I was definitely surprised to see Double display so much emotion, but she's still got a tall ladder to climb before I have a change of heart about her. Playing Squigly's story mode put my opinion of that blob in the dumpster, and I was honestly happy to see Eliza teach that thing some humility.

Perhaps if one day Double apologizes to all of the people she's hurt, accompanied by handmade greeting cards and buoyant tentacle hugs, then I might start liking her better.
 
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I have a feeling that Double is actually Lamia and that, along with her, Venus, Aeon and the Skull Heart are all part of the same entity. Double shares the physical characteristics of both Aeon and Lamia as well as, what I assume, the space distorting properties of Venus, albeit a "lite" version of what was described. I don't think it was coincidence that Venus and Aeon's heads popped out during the action sequence in Eliza's story mode.

Lamia might have split herself into pieces after previous conflict with Eliza and developed dissociative identify disorder. Note that Double talks to the Skull Heart but it never actually responds. (Talking to herself) It could also tie in with the parallels that Trinityism has with Catholicism. Double plays the role as the Avatar (Jesus), Aeon and Venus as the Spirit and the Skull Heart as the Theon Father Mother.

They are separate shards of a complete being.

Also, the scene that happens directly after Double consumes the 7 girls shows Mother calling Venus and Aeon for Dinner. :^)
 
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Cellsai said:
Also, I would really love a Pure Double character now ;_; These last few story modes have been really highlighting how powerful she actually is, and how god damn spectacular she looks when she goes all out in her transformations.
I've been saying this for quite a while, I personally didn't think double's transformations in the story this time were particularly creative. What really got me was how eliza used blood.

Extending her arms, creating tentacles and whips, making armor, turning into puddles, etc. It's pretty similar to the type of creative stuff you can do with double (if she had her own moveset), but I still think it's something that she could have had in battle, though translating it to egyptian themed stuff would be difficult, other then maybe swarms of locust projectiles.

I always feel bad whenever I say this, though, because I think the animations on double and eliza are FANTASTIC compared to the other characters, and all of the character animations in the game are amazing. It's a bit like saying "Well, this giant 10 story tall mech with lasers and an interior pool and cookie dough machine is great, but why doesn't it also give me back massages and file my taxes?"
 
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Sorry for a bunch of big images here.

Just having a gawk at the story art again. That statue in the cathedral is looking a lot more literal than I had previously thought.

Double Trinity.png


This is Double's model sheet. It's been floating around for a while now:

Double_Model_Sheet.jpg


What's interesting about is the part at the top: "Double is a 'shadow' of the big bad, Lamia. This particular headpiece is from XXXXX's distinctive crown shape."

So, we now have a better idea what that first sentence means. What is still confusing is what is censored out there. Obviously it's implying that Lamia and XXXXX are different people, and that double is imitating that second person's crown, which would mean there is yet another mysterious figure in the backdrop of all of this.

Personally I kind of think the XXXXX is actually just covering up the word 'Lamia' too and LZ either forgot to censor the first instance of Lamia or deliberately did it this way to mess with us. The word 'Lamia' fits exactly into that box.

And @FakeangeL was asking for this earlier:

gehenna small.png
 
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Marie went to fight against Eliza, but Squigly didn't awoke. Maybe she's was just pretending being inactive just to grab a golden opportunity! While mega maiden and mega Eliza were fighting, Squigs frees Fortune and Filia, and together they defeat Albus and Horace.

Then, the three go to the place where the giant battle is happening, strike when Eliza is not paying attention and weaken her, allowing Marie to perform the final blow!

Annnd, everything ends well... except for Bella of course. She can't be helped.
 
Many theories:

1-Double is a manifestation of Lamia. They share the same soul.

2-Double is a clone of Lamia in every aspect but power and function. She is aware of this.

3-Double is a servant created by Lamia which can be possessed by her.

Toss more...
 
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Cellsai said:
Personally I kind of think the XXXXX is actually just covering up the word 'Lamia' too and LZ either forgot to censor the first instance of Lamia or deliberately did it this way to mess with us. The word 'Lamia' fits exactly into that box.
I agree, to err is human.
 
Undeadtoon said:
That's a bit subjective. I doubt Aeon and Venus can visit the world willy nilly. Its strongly implied in Venus' dlc description that Venus can't enter the world fully. Are they eldrich Abominations? Yes. Are they all powerful? Close, but no dice.
Minor tangent here.

There isn't really an elder god, outer god, or creature within lovecraftian horror that is all powerful, just ones so overwhelmingly powerful that they make any human action seem like a futile endeavor. What's more they all still operate on rules, just rules that we can't even begin to play by. Virtually all Lovecraftian creatures have weaknesses and restrictions and these traits carry over to Skullgirls.

Venus' parasite Abaddon is more than likely based on Yog-Sothoth, who is an Outer God that is described as occupying every point in space/time within our universe. Or more simply, our universe resides within Yog-Sothoth. It's been said that Yog-Sothoth is omniscient because it can observe every facet of creation and yet, is it still seemingly blocked from directly accessing of our plane of existence and can only manifest itself as one of a few avatars, or as yellow orbs (tentacles and gaping maws optional).

So even what could be considered a literal god has boundaries that it cannot cross. Venus seems to share a similar handicap based off her concept art.
 
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There's always the possibility that they are writing the story as they go along.
 
I like the third one.
Osmiumsmith said:
Many theories:

1-Double is a manifestation of Lamia. They share the same soul.

2-Double is a clone of Lamia in every aspect but power and function. She is aware of this.

3-Double is a servant created by Lamia which can be possessed by her.

Toss more...
 
Tanarus Asamiya said:
Because someone is going to want it...

View attachment 6343
This pretty much takes the cake :PUN: !

Fortune you better get used to serve to the queen ^^

Hope to see her from this exact moment as a solo strong char that if the player use the proper training 101 combo's & specials.

Peace !
 
PaperBag_Sniper said:
Minor tangent here.

There isn't really an elder god, outer god, or creature within lovecraftian horror that is all powerful, just ones so overwhelmingly powerful that they make any human action seem like a futile endeavor. What's more they all still operate on rules, just rules that we can't even begin to play by. Virtually all Lovecraftian creatures have weaknesses and restrictions and these traits carry over to Skullgirls.

Venus' parasite Abaddon is more than likely based on Yog-Sothoth, who is an Outer God that is described as occupying every point in space/time within our universe. Or more simply, our universe resides within Yog-Sothoth. It's been said that Yog-Sothoth is omniscient because it can observe every facet of creation and yet, is it still seemingly blocked from directly accessing of our plane of existence and can only manifest itself as one of a few avatars, or as yellow orbs (tentacles and gaping maws optional).

So even what could be considered a literal god has boundaries that it cannot cross. Venus seems to share a similar handicap based off her concept art.
That's technically what I was insinuating. I was basically pointing out that while Venus is god like/eldrich, she has her limits. And gameplay is technically semi-canon presumably. So a seemingly normal mortal probably could probably beat a god-like being, if highly unlikely.
 
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