• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

squigly should start the round with charge

this is a good idea

  • Total voters
    76
sorry.
i'll let zeknife answer that, but i'm interested : center stage daisy pusher is avoidable in reaction post flash? did I read that right, @alexpi ?
 
mcpeanuts said:
How do you figure?
alexpi said:
How is Daisy Pusher a threat in neutral? In offline play, it's very easy to avoid with tags, empty jumps, some supers, or various moves that delay your fall in air. The only reason it's ever a threat is with charged Center Stage, and it's still avoidable with some characters.

Squigly with 1 meter and a charge turns a half-screen distance worth of ground into an area the opponent simply isn't allowed to inhabit, out of risk of a 15f command grab (that is indeed unjumpable and uncounterable post-flash) that can be chosen to not commit to if the opponent is in the air or jump startup during center stage

Like a lot of her other tools, it passively controls space and limits what approaches the opponent can make, not just when they're used, but when they could be used.

If Squigly knows the opponent can't safely approach her on the ground, and she knows the opponent knows that as well, it's much easier for her to predict what their approach is, and counter it. (Liver mortis and sing xx sbo used defensively are also good for this)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: iLoli and mcpeanuts
Didn't the hit-stop change make it so you only get punished if you're pressing a button before the flash? All I need to do is not be pressing buttons like a moron and I can avoid Daisy Pusher.
 
alexpi said:
Didn't the hit-stop change make it so you only get punished if you're pressing a button before the flash? All I need to do is not be pressing buttons like a moron and I can avoid Daisy Pusher.
The hitstop change only affected sing xx sbo, which is now always blockable post-flash if the opponent isn't in a counterhit state or dashing (Unless they pre-emptively block while dashing)
Charged center stage > daisy pusher is still unjumpable
 
Lvl2 Sing into Daisy IS really fucking good, espec with the presence of Sing into SBO.

But Daisy will never be a good reversal.
Some characters can avoid it naturally even if they were originally pushing buttons on the ground (eg Filia cancelling Button into xx Updo xx AirGregor to avoid it), almost everyone can avoid it even if they were pushing buttons in the air (PARASOUL can xx Toss xx jMK/j.HK at most heights, BELLA can Grab Bag and often get a full punish, ..), it gets crossed up easily, scales your followup combo to 50%, you don't get hit if you were dashing in their face without blocking, it's hella unsafe, etc whatever.
At least make it function in the one case it really fucking should (opponent CAN'T cancel their ground normal into something airborne, you read them correctly on pushing buttons) rather than being a free "Hello, please do a full CH combo on me" every single time you use it without Lv2 sing.

Locking out Tags after the Superflash turns the move from completely unusable into "really shitty reversal, but better than nothing - a good read can save you".
 
I don't mind that daisy pusher isn't a good reversal, Squigly isn't a mashy character and she has charged draugen punch now as far as reversals go (It's even safe on block for meter)
It beats almost every other ground super, can be used for mash-proof setups by canceling liver mortis into it on reaction to a super flash, and I guess it makes the Squigly mirror more interesting

Every character has the ability to dodge it on reaction with some combination of specials and supers, some meterless. Just locking out tagging wouldn't make a big difference once people adjust.

Edit: I wasn't begging for the DP change myself, so I definitely don't represent a majority, but this request is from someone who doesn't even play Squigly
 
A decent reversal that isn't a one-off, yes. I like the Charged DP changes, even though I don't use them myself (yet). However, it still barely competes with other reversals, and I barely see any Squig players use it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: blufang
charged DP leaves them in a hit stun till they hit the ground. You should have plenty of time to gain another charge if you don't want to combo off the DP
 
  • Like
Reactions: blufang
Charged DP is actually really good and more Squigly players should use it (myself included). But I don't play point Squigly, so when my first character dies and Squigly comes in without charge it's pretty tricky to not have her immediately die as well.
 
I don't see how Daisy Pusher is bad in neutral.

It forces nuts to calm down, allows you to full charge AND THEN combo off of, and is a great chunk of damage.

ANYONE predictably IADing at Squgis will either get SBO'ed or Daisy Pushered.

With full charge Squigs gets two more reversal options.

As an anchor Squigs player, Squigs with meter is a powerhouse, she probably has the best use of meter in the entire game.

With one SBO she can realistically charge both of her stances.
 
I wouldn't care tbh, just you're not allowed to have a charge for opera because that would be really fucking stupid starting off the round with opera shenanigans and getting a "free"(using that loosely) combo
 
iLoli said:
I don't see how Daisy Pusher is bad in neutral.

It forces nuts to calm down, allows you to full charge AND THEN combo off of, and is a great chunk of damage.

ANYONE predictably IADing at Squgis will either get SBO'ed or Daisy Pushered.

With full charge Squigs gets two more reversal options.

As an anchor Squigs player, Squigs with meter is a powerhouse, she probably has the best use of meter in the entire game.

With one SBO she can realistically charge both of her stances.
It doesn't force nuts to calm down, it gives them a nice looooong super freeze to realise what you are doing and mash their counter super.

Daisy Pusher can be used as a gimmicky anti air on some characters and I think as a legitimate anti-tumble run move?
 
If you guys haven't been using DP for the longest time I really don't know what to say. I guess the "squig dp is shit" days still haunt us.
 
I do dp all the time. Turns out I'm just messing my center stage input.

Mike gave her that so people would shut up about it. I still don't use it outside of combos. Swag.

Combo xx Dp xx lk mk opera, anything. Raw tag if you want. Spend time teabagging. Hey another charge, then teabag. The world is your oyster.
 
Last edited:
.......why is this even a thread -_- I mean guys...it takes 1 second. ONE SECOND to charge.

I charge to walk practically.

And the assists thing I'm not particularly feeling either.

The conversation we NEED to have is how to make her specials a little better and what properties to give them. For example making normal tremolo hit low. I wouldn't see a problem since it's such a slow move anyways. And perhaps making drag'n'bite a little different too...idk what I'd do...maybe 1-3 more frames of advantage. Idk.

Luweewu said:
If you guys haven't been using DP for the longest time I really don't know what to say. I guess the "squig dp is shit" days still haunt us.

To be honest I use it more than most, but even for myself I feel usage of dp is really low lol.
 
Draugn Punch should be a charge move. I can't mash reversals, but I can do down-up charge moves as a reversal.
 
Good is relative. All characters can compete and the game is very balanced. Does that make all characters real good? Does that mean that no character should be tweaked at all? I could understand Filia, Fortune, Double, Valentine maybe Parasoul not getting any buffs since they are at the top, Big Band not yet cause he's too new, any other character is fair game though. Of course it would have to be well thought out and tested, cause the game balance is very good atm.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nuuance
alexpi said:
Draugn Punch should be a charge move. I can't mash reversals, but I can do down-up charge moves as a reversal.
no you will be even more open to overheads because you have to hold down to charge it, thats why parasouls pillar is even more risky even though people think its good, its often safer to just call updo for an anti air.
 
I need it as a reversal for PBGC. I generally don't actually mash reversals, but I do PBGC. Problem is, I kinda suck at doing DP motions for it.
 
Alexpi not to sound mean or anything, but that is a personal problem. Kind of messed up that you want to nerf your own character so she fits your execution requirements.
 
  • Like
Reactions: guitalex2007 and mcpeanuts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back