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Street Fighter V

having one charge move does not make you a charge character unless that charge move is literally the center of your gameplay
 
In my experience, most people aren't actively charging with Necalli unless you desperately need to get through fireballs. It is mostly a combo tool since it is stupid risky to use at neutral. So like Ruin said, it isn't a big part of his game play. I really don't consider him a charge character. Especially since I can't stand playing charge characters, and I like Necalli.
 
Necalli's charge move is mostly a combo ender. It can be used as a way to punish fireballs, but it's risky.

Not to mention that, after activating V-Trigger you don't need to charge to use it in a combo, lol.
 
Necalli does not count, that's like saying Bison is a motion character since he has one.
 
Spencer said:
Necalli barely counts.
Ruin said:
having one charge move does not make you a charge character unless that charge move is literally the center of your gameplay
Aden said:
Necalli does not count, that's like saying Bison is a motion character since he has one.

jesus god ok i get it. I just listed the characters that HAD charge moves. stop bullying beat :C
 
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Ed's tools are actually kind of interesting, like fully charged Burn Knuckle puts you behind the opponent.
 
It's fuckin minus though. I think it's the most shit thing he has.

Love the V-skill though.
 
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Yeah, the V-skill is pretty cool.
 
I play Birdie so getting those jump reads with V-skill is just like using anti-air chain. Feels good.

Wish there was an actual training mode available so I can lab him and figure stuff out instead of flying by the seat of my pants.
 
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BeatNinja said:
I play Birdie so getting those jump reads with V-skill is just like using anti-air chain. Feels good.

Wish there was an actual training mode available so I can lab him and figure stuff out instead of flying by the seat of my pants.

THIS.
Plus a few combo trials so I can at least get some stuff to start with. I ain't that creative...
 
KK > PP > 2Vskill is fucking sick. Sadly it looks like you only get 1 Vskill per combo, or I'm bad. Thanks @Spencer

Also 5MP > 2HP combos into pretty much any special.
 
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welcome to modern mainstream fighting games XD
 
I would say "isn't that kinda like Skullgirls?" but then... stun bar. And no pushblock/alpha counter/parry/burst/other universal get-off-me.

Geez this game really is bad.
 
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*sigh*... is it time for the circle jerk again? So soon? *unzips*

I'd say it is quite a bit like Skullgirls using just those points...

Let's not pretend that none of us have ever lost to a BB level 5 in a match that you were actually winning? Or fully optimized combos that kill in 1 reset? Or Double lvl 5 TOD? Or 1v3 lvl 3 TOD?

I mean there are thousands of reasons to prefer SG over SFV... but high, swingy damage from stray hits or resets that lead to half your life aren't among them...

 
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That was one SPD and one combo into stun. Just two touches to win the whole round. Outside of happy birthdays (which means your opponent fucked up big time), nothing like that exists in SG, especially with all the undizzy nerfs. The clip you linked is killing one character in 2v3, not really the same thing at all. And you've conveniently omitted the start of that round, in which I count 6 touches and a burst bait to kill Filia and Robo before getting down to Bella.

Yes, SG gives you the tools to make a comeback when you establish momentum, but that takes a lot more work to do, especially with all the undizzy nerfs. Even if you TOD one character, you won't be able to kill the next that quickly. And that's how it should be.
 
One SPD into a crush counter combo that used 1 bar and V-trigger. Plus the combo that killed used 1 bar as well. Don't forget that a round of SG is basically two rounds of SF, so this is the equivalent of someone using 3 bars to kill 1 and half characters, which I'm pretty sure is totally possible if get a happy birthday as Bella.

Not saying SFV is great, but this isn't exactly a problem with the game as much as Alex doing a bit too much stun.
 
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missingno said:
Outside of happy birthdays (which means your opponent fucked up big time)
digereedoodah said:
so this is the equivalent of someone using 3 bars to kill 1 and half characters, which I'm pretty sure is totally possible if get a happy birthday as Bella.
Possible, yes, but even a crush counter is not really comparable at all.
 
missingno said:
That was one SPD and one combo into stun. Just two touches to win the whole round. Outside of happy birthdays (which means your opponent fucked up big time), nothing like that exists in SG, especially with all the undizzy nerfs. The clip you linked is killing one character in 2v3, not really the same thing at all. And you've conveniently omitted the start of that round, in which I count 6 touches and a burst bait to kill Filia and Robo before getting down to Bella.

Yes, SG gives you the tools to make a comeback when you establish momentum, but that takes a lot more work to do, especially with all the undizzy nerfs. Even if you TOD one character, you won't be able to kill the next that quickly. And that's how it should be.

I'd like to just add for clarity that the underlying complaint is that damage is too high in SFV when you spend resources... which is bordering on the absurd considering the damage that is allowed in SG when you spend resources.

While direct comparisons are a little bit more difficult considering the team nature of SG, they aren't too far off. You can kill 1v1 in two touches in SG depending on the situation... for far less resources (I'll check when I get home, but I think I could do it with one bar as PW). 1v2 has TODs with enough meter (3 for Bella I think?), and like @digereedoodah that's the closest to taking a SFV round you'll find in a team game.

I'm not here to impune SG, but it is fucking exhausting seeing hypocritical complaints leveled at SFV. Guilty Gear players bitching about its netcode? NRS fans complaining about Capcom (less so for fans of Arcsys games, but still there too). And now SG players complaining about its damage and resets?

The game is undeniably deeply flawed, but Jesus, the "my favorite fighter" circlejerk is annoying. The FG community has recently become "play what you enjoy... unless it is SFV in which case I'm going to hop into every forum that thinks about mentioning SFV and tell you how much it sucks".

I feel like I should add that I am hardly a SFV fanboy. I don't like SF in general, and though I do like SFV, I prefer Xrd and SG on most days (and hopefully TFH... hype!).
 
Yeah, SFV uses rounds while SG doesn't, the Quick Match being Bo5 might skew.perception of how long a SG set lasts.

Oki is probably harder to pull off than resets, but it's still really strong in SFV. With two combos into stun, that's a one-reset kill. Though you are at a meter disadvantage. I know there's a max of 3 vs 5, but how fast is the meter gain?

Also there is the other complaint, about defensive options. But I totally forgot V-reversals exist for a guard cancel, so that's one.
 
Meter gain is fairly quick and you can generally get a full stick per round.

I think were I being equitable, the underlying complaint is that vtrigger is too strong (though you'll literally never hear anyone say that about Alex) which has a lot of truth. Rog and Ibuki (and to a much lesser extent Urien) effectively win the game based on the their vtrigger usage. But the issue isn't SFVs damage in a vacuum.
 
Single hits don't matter as much as they should/used to. You can control the neutral as well as you want, it won't matter if something like the clip I posted occurs, and it occurs often.
 
BeatNinja said:
Single hits don't matter as much as they should/used to.

You mean in SFV or fighting games in general? SFV is the first Street Fighter game I've tried, so I can't speak to others, but I do agree that modern fighting games seem to move towards high damaging combos moreso than good neutral play. I think Tekken 7 is the worst with this, so much so that 5 rounds is the default.

Point is, I don't think it's fair to point out something that's in a lot of modern fighting games and use it as an example why SFV in particular is bad.
 
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BeatNinja said:
Single hits don't matter as much as they should/used to. You can control the neutral as well as you want, it won't matter if something like the clip I posted occurs, and it occurs often.

I agree with this. Like ChrisG said, you actually feel bad for someone when they are winning vs Balrog because he's well on his way to get vtrigger. But as @digereedoodah pointed out, what's annoying is SFV catches the most amount of shit for any issue endemic to the genre, and it turns into this annoying community-based masturbatory hate-fest which drowns out the handful of us who enjoy occasionally playing and talking about it.

I'd like to see vtriggers toned down. I'd like to see better hit boxes at neutral. I'd like to see the reigning in of what is considered acceptable damage. On all of this, you and I probably agree.

But to watch a row-by-row list of much of how SGs plays out followed by "this game sucks tbh" comes across as massively hypocritical when I have literally had games go as follows:

- I'm getting beat at neutral
- I level 3 through a projectile
- I reset
- I win the round/game

Some variation of that is not even all that rare (well... more rare now than it used to be since my long breaks keep me from playing optimally ie short combo, reset, kill combo. But, I digress).

In any case, keep on hating/criticizing/whatever, I'm not hear to stop you from doing you. I just found the whole thing occurring on SH about as funny as the time an Xrd fan told someone that Capcom's netcode was ass... so they should go play Xrd.
 
digereedoodah said:
You mean in SFV or games in general?

Street Fighter in general.

In fact the early beta versions of SFV, at like E3 2015, were a lot better about this. The most you could get off a V-trigger cancel was like super.
 
To be honest I don't give much of a fuck over that particular example and just think Capcom has completely lost all their core design fundamentals in general.

Like there's a lot of garbage in mvc3 too, but it's all symptoms of how fundamentally dumb the core moveset design everything revolves around is.
 
what BANNED a BANNED cool BANNED classic BANNED stage BANNED for BANNED Vega

upload_2017-5-25_12-13-56.jpeg
 
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Were Vega climbing stages banned in previous SFs? I've never followed SF outside of III and V.

If they were, it seems like they're not even trying to put out usable stages at this point since they keep just getting banned.
 
TechPowah said:
he has to spend meter just to use it?

still banned, but it seems fair enough for couch play

He used Ex cling. We don't know if it's possible to use normal cling.
 
Aden said:
Were Vega climbing stages banned in previous SFs? I've never followed SF outside of III and V.

If they were, it seems like they're not even trying to put out usable stages at this point since they keep just getting banned.
Only game prior to this where the player could climb on the cage was Alpha 3, I believe, and I think we all know how that one went in terms of competitive viability.
 
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