The Legendary Bounty Hunter! Metroid/Samus Aran Thread

[Ktulu]

I feel like the only person that really wants a Metroid 2 remake. Hunting all the different types of Metroids was really cool. If they could really expand that game in every way I'd be super happy. Remake it the same way Metroid 1 was remade into Zero Mission.

Also Metroid Metal's best songs are their Metroid 2 songs.

 

[Sotherius]

Hmmmm, I think this would be a non-issue if it weren't for Fusion, to be honest. Outside of Super Metroid's opening narration, Samus is pretty much an entirely blank slate at all times. Even her history is something present only in the manual, and can be safely ignored if one doesn't care. To me, it's such a thin line, that it's not worth thinking about.

I do agree, as much as I don't find the actual gameplay in Fusion to be the series best, it did a good job with the story and dialogue. Not too much, not too little. Just enough to get you engrossed and thinking. I also like the twist that the SA-X is the one who saves Samus from the Omega Metroid. As teary as people might have gotten over the Baby/Super Metroid in SM, it's a dark reminder that both the X and Metroids were non-sentient predators and nothing else.

The thing is, Yoshio Sakamoto clearly had his vision of Samus since the beginning, or very early, i mean, even if the only moment in Super Metroid when Samus talk, is in the beginning, you can clearly see that there is something going trough her mind.

In Zero Mission (best metroid ever), while there is not much text, just one before the beginning of the game and one before the Metal Gear section, you can see trough the atmosphere, and trough the arts on the ending, and on the section where samus recovers her armor.

And also there is the manga, that i want to read someday.

Now, Other M clearly is a very flawed game (some say the main thing was a localization problem, and no, prime was not removed from the canon, sakamoto just stated that he didn't take in consideration prime while doing other m, which is a big fail by itself), but i really can't complain about linearity in Other M(never played, but saw walktroughs) or Fusion, because these games happens in spacial stations, more clearly, man made spacial stations, so they should be more linear than rock formations on a planet (Zebes in Metroid/Super metroid/Zero Mission or SR-388 for metroid 2), and both try to bring exploration into table, with locked doors that you need to get around, and things like that. But really, while i love exploring more than anything, i can't demand every metroid game to be like that, because samus is a bounty hunter, so, she would be submited to more situations than planetary exploration.

 

[Dio Brando]

I feel like the only person that really wants a Metroid 2 remake.

No you're not the only one, i've been praying for a Metroid 2 remake for years.

 

[Dio Brando]

I fucking loved Fusion, everything about it was awesome, my only complaint would be that some enemies deal ridiculous amounts of damage, i remember those bee things from the TRO sector when the energy of the station went out, they dealt like 80 damage on hit or something, almost a whole energy tank.

 

[IsaVulpes]

my only complaint would be that some enemies deal ridiculous amounts of damage, i remember those bee things from the TRO sector when the energy of the station went out, they dealt like 80 damage on hit or something, almost a whole energy tank.

Fusion had very little exploration, so since the difficulty of figuring out where you have to go got removed, they instead upped the difficulty of the enemies (both damage of normal enemies and general bossfights)
Fusion would have been pretty boring if the monsters in the station were less of a threat

I feel like the only person that really wants a Metroid 2 remake.

http://metroid2remake.blogspot.de/

In Zero Mission (best metroid ever)

Why?

And also there is the manga, that i want to read someday.

Do that, it's fun

i really can't complain about linearity in Other M(never played, but saw walktroughs) or Fusion, because these games happens in spacial stations, more clearly, man made spacial stations, so they should be more linear than rock formations on a planet (Zebes in Metroid/Super metroid/Zero Mission or SR-388 for metroid 2)

[..]

But really, while i love exploring more than anything, i can't demand every metroid game to be like that, because samus is a bounty hunter, so, she would be submited to more situations than planetary exploration

For one it's strange that you list ZM here, as that is the by far most linear Metroid

For two of course it's a valid complaint.. yeah a space station is gonna be more linear, but you could just not make the game in that setting.
I mean, if I set a "Total War" in Europe 2010 and then explain the lack of combat with "Well, there was no war in Europe 2010!" that.. is not really an excuse?
Clearly a Total War should be an RTS and not suddenly a happy go lucky eggplants and pancakes dating sim??

Of course "a bounty hunter will be subjected to more situations than planetary exploration". She will also have to poop sometimes, yet there is no Samus Toilet Simulator.
This seems like a weird argument to make. Yeah Samus won't spend every day exploring a new planet, but the days she does something else.. simply won't appear in a game!

How about a Zelda game that is set in Links OoT-youth! Clearly the guy isn't always saving worlds, but also spends some time growing up in a safe environment.
So we have this kid who has neither weapon nor shield nor enemies and just walks around in a small village making friends with Saria. Surely this game wouldn't disappoint anyone?!

Really, the one common ground that Metroid I-II-III had was their focus on exploration and being lost in an unknown environment.
It was the one thing that really set them apart from other action titles - the Megamans which were always linear, Zelda which was already a handholding experience with ALttP, etc
Fusion killed that, and ZM followed suit. Sparkling Map markers telling you where to go simply don't fit in the one thing that "makes" a Metroid game.

Fusion [..] did a good job with the story and dialogue. Not too much, not too little.

If only, IF ONLY .. there was a way to skip cutscenes :G At the 2nd playthrough it is already annoying, and after that it just becomes a chore to play the game multiple times.

Just look at that perfection.

I don't know, as with all the "Samus in underwear" depictions it doesn't really look .. fitting to the character to me.
Super at least gave you an idea of muscles somewhere http://static.gamesradar.com/images/mb/GamesRadar/us/Games/M/Metroid Other M/Everything Else/Samus underwear/Samus03--article_image.jpg
Fusion/ZM Ending Samus looks like an average pretty white girl which you could meet at a college party
Does the picture you posted make you feel like you're looking at a 6'3 tall 200 lb amazoness? http://gamecola.net/wp-content/uplo...ria_suit_Super_Metroid_Players_Guide_1994.jpg

I couldn't really feel anything because there was very little indication that Samus was even feeling anything, beyond Baby-related indignation when Baby-related events were occurring. Baby-related events were not a constant thing in Super Metroid, to the point that I actually and legitimately forget about the infant metroid being the crux of the plot.

Which is kind of the point of the whole thing actually .. if you want it to be :-)

Super is godlike in the sense that it has a very deep storyline with plenty emotion, a flat premise to get you going, or nothing at all - depending on what you want as a player, and how you experience games as a whole; it lets you experience everything on your own without shoving anything in your face - the intro cutscene is the only thing with text and will likely be largely forgotten after 1 hour of play.
There is no possible way to experience Fusion without the story. You hop on an Elevator and then you're in for 5 minutes of text during which you can't do anything, so you may as well read them. If you don't give a shit about Samus' "intended" feelings but want to make up your own, if you just want to shoot monsters and don't care that she calls the Robot "Adam" now.. you're fucked, there is no avoiding it.
At least in the Primes, most of the backstory is told via "Scanning", so a curious player can scan every object in the world and learn a lot, while a less curious one or someone who wants to create their own world can omit that.

You forget about the Baby being the crux of the plot quickly.. it then takes half a step to consider that perhaps SAMUS also forgot about it?!
Maybe she isn't an infallible goddess that always has a cleartrack mind and tirelessly pursues her goal, but she simply impulsively followed Ridley onto Zebes (in what essentially amounts to a suicide mission, if you look at the power balance between her and Ridley on Ceres), pushed onwards and then got lost in the depths of the planet, forgetting her original purpose and proceeded to just try and escape back to the surface?

It's the difference between a good book spurring on your imagination, and a TV series on Netflix which you let yourself get showered by while in a semi-drunk groggy half-asleep state and munching on nachos. Of course, the latter is preferred by most people.. shrug

 

[Sotherius]

Zero Mission is not linear at all, the game gives you a path because newcomers will be lost, but is the game that have more sequence break in the series (at least with the 2d ones), i may be wrong on that one, but is certainly on par with super metroid on the sequence breaking possibilities. The only linear part is the stealth section (and not too linear, there is 2 or 3 different paths on that section). I dare say that is not even sequence breaking, because there isn't a sequence in the first place, just a recommended path with the chozo statues.

And for me is my favorite because it has excelent controls, a lot of room for sequence breaking, and also i think the artstyle is superb. And the stealth section (while i usually don't like stealth), shows how brave Samus is by going into enemy territory without weapons to complete her mission (which is shown in fusion by her willing to face the sa-x being in a weakened state).

 

[Ktulu]

For one it's strange that you list ZM here, as that is the by far most linear Metroid

Really, the one common ground that Metroid I-II-III had was their focus on exploration and being lost in an unknown environment.

I don't see how ZM is the most linear, when 2 exists. Metroid 2 is a straight path the whole game. You begin in one area, kill all the metroids, the the area next to it unlocks. Rinse and repeat until you reach the Queen. How did it focus on exploration?

http://metroid2remake.blogspot.de/

Thanks for showing me this!

 

[IsaVulpes]

Zero Mission is not linear at all, the game gives you a path

Ladida

As mentioned previously in this thread: Yeah, you can sequence break in ZM if you actively go "FUCK YOU, GAME"
But 99.9% of players plain won't. I have fun with suitless Maridia in SM but I never felt like I should go anywhere other than where I was pointed towards in ZM.
There is no exploration whatsoever present in this game if you don't try your best to ignore what the game is telling you.
That is very, very different even from Fusion(!), where at least you have to look for the unmarked Data Centers, discover Nightmare, find your way back after unlocking Red Doors, etc

P.S. Wanna take bets that SM has more sequence break possibilities :^)

Metroid 2 is a straight path the whole game. You begin in one area, kill all the metroids, the the area next to it unlocks. Rinse and repeat until you reach the Queen. How did it focus on exploration?

If you managed to play through Metroid2 without getting lost a single time (if only simply by virtue of every area looking the same HRRRG), you are kind of the god of gaming
- You have to find the Metroids in the first place, there is a lot on the map to discover everywhere, you have no idea where you're supposed to go which instantly lends itself to exploration (you spend half the game rolling around in Spiderball to see whether the open-looking room you're in has a ceiling or a hidden area with a Metroid somewhere..), and even after you have cleared an area, you need to remember where the last set of acid was to which you now have to backtrack.

If you play through ZM, it's literally impossible to get lost at any point ever; my Mom could get through this game even with taking a 1 week break every 20 minutes

 

[Sotherius]

Ladida

As mentioned previously in this thread: Yeah, you can sequence break in ZM if you actively go "FUCK YOU, GAME"
But 99.9% of players plain won't. I have fun with suitless Maridia in SM but I never felt like I should go anywhere other than where I was pointed towards in ZM.
There is no exploration whatsoever present in this game if you don't try your best to ignore what the game is telling you.
That is very, very different even from Fusion(!), where at least you have to look for the unmarked Data Centers, discover Nightmare, find your way back after unlocking Red Doors, etc

Only the first statue that gives you a hint where to go is unskipable, besides that, you can go the game from start to finish without any hint where to go. And that is what i like in this game: if you want to explore, you can, but if you want a linear path to finish it, you can.

 

[Dio Brando]

I once read the Prime 2 manga, i fucking loved it and was really into it, but apparently the final chapter was impossible to find because there were no scans from it, needless to say i never finished it.

 

[Ryin]

If you managed to play through Metroid2 without getting lost a single time (if only simply by virtue of every area looking the same HRRRG), you are kind of the god of gaming

I'm pretty sure you're supposed to take pen and paper and map that game yourself. The map design is really convenient for that.
That's one of the reasons that make Metroid 2 my personal favorite. I like this kind of exploration.

 

[Ktulu]

If you managed to play through Metroid2 without getting lost a single time (if only simply by virtue of every area looking the same HRRRG), you are kind of the god of gaming
- You have to find the Metroids in the first place, there is a lot on the map to discover everywhere, you have no idea where you're supposed to go which instantly lends itself to exploration (you spend half the game rolling around in Spiderball to see whether the open-looking room you're in has a ceiling or a hidden area with a Metroid somewhere..), and even after you have cleared an area, you need to remember where the last set of acid was to which you now have to backtrack.

If you play through ZM, it's literally impossible to get lost at any point ever; my Mom could get through this game even with taking a 1 week break every 20 minutes

I guess the layout of Metroid 2 is more linear, but ZM gives you more directions. Everything in Metroid 2 looking the same is definitely a problem.

 

[Squire Grooktook]

The thing is, Yoshio Sakamoto clearly had his vision of Samus since the beginning, or very early, i mean, even if the only moment in Super Metroid when Samus talk, is in the beginning, you can clearly see that there is something going trough her mind.

In Zero Mission (best metroid ever), while there is not much text, just one before the beginning of the game and one before the Metal Gear section, you can see trough the atmosphere, and trough the arts on the ending, and on the section where samus recovers her armor.

And also there is the manga, that i want to read someday.

My point is, in a game like SM, where 99% of the game is a mute sprite puppet show, I think it's a bit finicky to say "I can't get into it because there's too much characterization!". She's not a classical player avatar in SM, but she's close enough that when you're halfway through the game, it doesn't matter. These games require you to let go and go with the flow of the atmosphere a bit, so to reject that because of one cut scene seems a little too stringent to me.

I heard the manga is kinda mediocre, but still better than Other M in terms of characterization.

Ladida

As mentioned previously in this thread: Yeah, you can sequence break in ZM if you actively go "FUCK YOU, GAME"
But 99.9% of players plain won't. I have fun with suitless Maridia in SM but I never felt like I should go anywhere other than where I was pointed towards in ZM.
There is no exploration whatsoever present in this game if you don't try your best to ignore what the game is telling you.
That is very, very different even from Fusion(!), where at least you have to look for the unmarked Data Centers, discover Nightmare, find your way back after unlocking Red Doors, etc

P.S. Wanna take bets that SM has more sequence break possibilities :^)

To me, exploration is less about the potential for sequence breaks, and more about there being a few alternate roads to go down on the path to where the developers want you to be. It has to be remembered that, aside from potentially unintended sequence break potential, these games are only really trying to give players the illusion of freedom. Almost any Metroidvania (with a few notable exceptions) was designed with one specific path in mind by the developers to go down. The whole Metroidvania idea of "you can't go here till you go there and get the double jump boots" is built on this.

IMO what really makes the exploration in a Metroidvania is how many alternate, extraneous paths there are. IE going down a different path and discovering something extraneous to your goal instead of necessary (an energy tank, a new sword in CV, a path you'll only be able to reach later, etc.) Fusion to me felt far more linear in this respect. Both Fusion and Zero Mission pointed you in a specific direction, but in Fusion it felt like most of the sectors offered very little out of the way to explore or discover and most of the rooms you entered were mandatory. Zero Mission was similar in this regard, but I felt it offered a little bit more in terms of just choosing which door to go through and finding your way on your way to the marked map point.

Of course I could be wrong, it's been a few years since I played the games back to back. Super Metroid beats both games out in terms of exploration though, regardless of whether your criteria is sequence breaks or discovery.

 

[Sotherius]

I remember the first speedrun of zero mission i watched, it was a low % hard speedrun, and i was like: wow, you don't need the speedboost? you don't need the power bomb? WAIT, you can face ridley before Kraid? Things like that got me hooked.

And then i watched a 100% speedrun of zero mission, and i was like: wait, you can do that with the speedboost? wait, you can get the screwattack before ridley?

Of course, i'm not a speedrunner myself, but doing metroid under 2 hours (what someone can do in half an hour), was something that i was happy to do in my second playtrough, and not having power bombs and getting the screwattack early.

EDIT:

My point is, in a game like SM, where 99% of the game is a mute sprite puppet show, I think it's a bit finicky to say "I can't get into it because there's too much characterization!". She's not a classical player avatar in SM, but she's close enough that when you're halfway through the game, it doesn't matter. These games require you to let go and go with the flow of the atmosphere a bit, so to reject that because of one cut scene seems a little too stringent to me.

I understand now, and i don't disagree, for me, the 2d metroids do a excellent job in making you feel the atmosphere of the situation.

 

[Arcana]

I just beat Fusion and I got the ending where Mr. Metroid didnt cut his hair,


good experience, I was terrified that SA-X would appear at of nowhere all the time 10/10, now to never play it again

 

[Ktulu]

You found the SA-X in Zero Mission? Is that a secret I don't know about?

 

[Arcana]

you didnt see her all the time? like she was there the whole game she was chillin with mother brain but Mr. Metroid got jealous because Mother Brain is his wife and thats the story of Zero Mission

Ahem, FUSION was what I was thinking of

seriously though can SA-X just not

I hope if SA-X is included in any more Metroid games that we can encounter her a lot more to make it even scarier so I can cry even more as I play

 

[Squire Grooktook]

Yeah. SA-X was probably a bit under-used, having only a few encounters. On the other hand, I suppose one could argue that she would lose the sense of dread surrounding her if she appeared more frequently. Might depend on how long the game is, too.

In terms of actual gameplay, some of the "run from SA-X" sequences were fun, though iirc that last one in the Jungle Sector was memorization hell X_x

 

[Ktulu]

The SA-X was scary because it could body you really quickly. A couple more encounters would have been nice if they kept them super threatening.

And on the topic of threatening and Fusion, I love the part with the ice blob enemies. They destroy your health so quickly, but once you get the suit upgrade they change immediately. The next time they see you, they charge as they normally would and are absorbed. The next time they stare for a couple seconds then run, and every time after that they haul ass from you. I thought that was really cool.

 

[Ruin]

also, I just wanna say
I really appreciate the ending of Fusion because the screens are like, the first and only time we see Samus as being legitimately at ease and happy looking
like ZM had her chilling in the endings, but it seemed more like a "well that shit's over time for a drink" kind of relaxed
Fusion's just had Samus looking like she has a weight off her shoulders, like she's been freed from some demons, like she's got a bright future ahead of her, even if she kind of a fugitive now. It's neat to me to see chronic stone-faced grouch Samus looking like she's actually happy to be alive. It's just... feel-good.

 

[Squire Grooktook]

^^^ Yeah it was. On a similar note, also very nice how SA-X would react to different noises. Shoot a wall or something fairly quite, and it just turns around, or maybe investigates. Detonate a bomb or missile or something and IT'S GO TIME.

 

[Dr.Sanity]

I liked the part where Samus was raised and trained to the peak human physical condition of no muscle mass.

 

[Ruin]

You don't need muscles when you're part birdperson

 

[Squire Grooktook]

It's almost like fantasy/escapism deliberately tries to be entertaining and fun instead of realistic and boring.

^^^Don't mean to be snarky there. But male or female, I'd rather be playing someone handsome/pretty than Mr.Universe or something. Following the realistic line of logic, everyone might as well be bald space marines and whatnot.

Captain America has a similar backstory ("the limit of human potential" or something like that), and while he is pretty buff, he's no hulking muscle blob either. I don't see a problem so long as the design is cool.

I guess that line is pretty funny though when you think about it. On the other hand, you could handwave it by saying Chozo bio-engineering lets people be super strong without muscles becoming noticeably bigger.

 

[Arcana]

im going to start playing Prime now, I hate first person shooters but I should like this

 

[Squire Grooktook]

As was stated in a few reviews, it's more of a "first person adventure" game than a shooter ^_^

I hope you like it. Definitely rough around the edges in some ways, but it's a very memorable game. They nailed the exploration better than in Fusion or Zero Mission, arguably.

 

[Ktulu]

It plays nothing like an FPS. Don't let that aspect worry you.

 

[Ruin]

It's not a military gritty gunz shooter, but it's still first person game where you shoot things :V
It just has a different overall philosophy with exploration and shit

 

[Dio Brando]

Prime was more of exploration and puzzles than actual FPS, scanning is to me, so far, the best mechanic ever added to a Metroid game.

 

[Arcana]

I mean, I just dont like the first person aspect, I like being able to see around and not get hit by some obscure thing from behind me that I didnt see before but im looking forward to it

 

[Ktulu]

There's sort of "Danger proximity" bar on the screen that will go up the closer you are to enemies or hazards. It's a nice warning of shit you can't see. It's saved me from walking backwards into lava and phazon multiple times.

 

[Squire Grooktook]

I actually felt the same was as Arcana, but the game assuaged my fears in that department. I think part of the reason that it was received so well by Metroid fans, is that you realize playing it that Metroid isn't really about the combat.

Not to say that some of the Space Pirate encounters aren't fun. Most of the boss battles you don't have to worry about things coming from behind you, since the lock on system lets you stay focused on the single targets at all times.

 

[Dio Brando]

the warning bar only fills with hazardous enviroments, if i recall correctly you can see enemies in a radar at the top right of the screen, so it's hard for an enemy to sneak up on you, would only happen if you're not looking at the radar, and also that most enemies (or all of them) make a noise when moving or attacking you, i think the only enemies that try sneak attacks on you are shadow pirates.

 

[Ktulu]

i think the only enemies that try sneak attacks on you are shadow pirates.

And you get a visor for that, if I remember correctly.

 

[Sotherius]

Samus body actually makes sense, she would be athletic, but not extremely muscular (not enough to form a 6 pack or things like that), and she still pack a body that is able to endure harsh situations.
This zero mission concept to me defines well Samus. (i would give her more hips. =P)

Spoiler

And while the concept says no heels,i liked the heels in smash 4

 

[Dio Brando]

And you get a visor for that, if I remember correctly.

Yup, the thermal visor, then the entire metroid laboratory goes all to hell, the power goes out and the game suddenly becomes a horror game.

 

[Arcana]

Its probable that most of her strength comes from the power suit, kinda like how real prosthetics give strength to the wearer

 

[Sotherius]

Its probable that most of her strength comes from the power suit, kinda like how real prosthetics give strength to the wearer

True, but she is still very strong normally, not only because she is well trained, but because she has chozo DNA infused in her, that boosts some of her abilities if i'm correct.

 

[Dr.Sanity]

You don't need muscles when you're part birdperson

Then explain THIS

Spoiler

Anyway

Spoiler

It's almost like fantasy/escapism deliberately tries to be entertaining and fun instead of realistic and boring.

It's almost like the supermodel body type currently given to 99% of women in video games is possibly boring as well. Thanks for saying that Samus having muscle mass makes the Metroid experience boring due to the five minutes of before and after the entire game where she doesn't wear her suit.

^^^Don't mean to be snarky there. But male or female, I'd rather be playing someone handsome/pretty than Mr.Universe or something. Following the realistic line of logic, everyone might as well be bald space marines and whatnot.

That doesn't mean that every single game should cater to such a belief. The fact that Samus has no muscles whatsoever doesn't fit in even in the Metroid games. Why does realistic=gritty? Why can't Samus have even a little muscle?

Captain America has a similar backstory ("the limit of human potential" or something like that), and while he is pretty buff, he's no hulking muscle blob either. I don't see a problem so long as the design is cool.

You know, citing the character that has every single incarnation with muscles and use it against an argument that states that Samus should probably be buff in ANY way is not the sanest method of responses.

Spoiler

he's no hulking muscle blob either
Excsqueeze me?

Spoiler

Samus body actually makes sense, she would be athletic, but not extremely muscular (not enough to form a 6 pack or things like that), and she still pack a body that is able to endure harsh situations.

Yes, but the problem is she has NO MUSCLE MASS AT ALL. She wouldn't even be able to do THAT. So I don't think it makes sense. I mean, say what you will about Other M, but it showed that she was in the military for God's sake!

 

[Ktulu]

Implying any of you scrubs finish the game fast enough to see her without her suit anyway.