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The Smash Bros Discussion Thread

Crayolan said:
This ganon should be in Smash 4.
I've been saying that ever since Ganondorf was first put into P:M.

Also, I'm interested in whatever it is they did with Zelda's Din's Fire. It looks like she might be limited to one fireball again, but be able to pull the fireball back to her. That would allow for some interesting zoning.

The PMBR seems to have been fiddling with Din's Fire for quite a few updates. I recall one update's version of Din's Fire was strong enough as a zoning tool to launch Zelda to top tier.

Really think about that. Zelda... to TOP TIER.
 
juju_for_president said:
I've been saying that ever since Ganondorf was first put into P:M.

Also, I'm interested in whatever it is they did with Zelda's Din's Fire. It looks like she might be limited to one fireball again, but be able to pull the fireball back to her. That would allow for some interesting zoning.

The PMBR seems to have been fiddling with Din's Fire for quite a few updates. I recall one update's version of Din's Fire was strong enough as a zoning tool to launch Zelda to top tier.

Really think about that. Zelda... to TOP TIER.

The way Din's Fire works now, as confirmed by a member of the PMDT, is that you press side-b once to launch it, and if someone touches it, it works like it always did. Then, if you press side-b after it is set, it will return to Zelda, exploding when it reaches her. If it comes into contact with an enemy, then it acts similarly to the boomarang, only hitting once but hitting them towards you.
 
Crayolan said:
The Ganon we deserve. Well, if deadman's volley had a projectile it would be anyway. This ganon should be in Smash 4.

Well throw in some HW moves in the process and then you'll have a Ganon worthy of Smash.
 
I really liked that fake article that said "Ganondorf in Smash is Sakurai's dad"

Like just an old man who tries his hardest but has trouble

Even just thinking about it makes me smile in a sad, somber way.
 
so what are they doing for jiggly puff who is an infuriatingly garbage character in PM?

nothing?

that's what I thought >.>
 
They better do something for her. There's no reason not to.
 
Gamesandgoodies said:
so what are they doing for jiggly puff who is an infuriatingly garbage character in PM?

nothing?

that's what I thought >.>

As I said before, recoveries in general are getting hard redesigns and nerfs, which is what is causing Jigglypuff to be bad right now.
Jigglypuff is bad in 3.02 because in 3.02 the 'M' in Project M stood for 'recovery', which is no longer going to be the case.
 
MMan7172 said:
As I said before, recoveries in general are getting hard redesigns and nerfs, which is what is causing Jigglypuff to be bad right now.
Jigglypuff is bad in 3.02 because in 3.02 the 'M' in Project M stood for 'recovery', which is no longer going to be the case.
there was also kind of the fact that what she did in the case of aerial gimping and primarily being airial other characters do better, that's the bigger problem as to why she was bad. also if that's the only thing she can do she's still going to be bad since even if other characters stop being better than her at it they have more options unlike her. of course i have heard nothing about other characters suddenly being worse than her at the only thing she was slightly good at. also if characters recoverys are worse then it's even easier to gimp characters making the pro of going super deep to gimp characters not as good since it's not as important.

My problem with her wasn't just that she was really bad, it was that other characters do the exact thing she wants to do, but better.

also i have heard that explanation before as how jigglypuff is being "buffed" and it really doesn't feel satisfactory to me.
 
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Gamesandgoodies said:
My problem with her wasn't just that she was really bad, it was that other characters do the exact thing she wants to do, but better.

Maybe 'aerial mobility' was the better term to use for the nerfs, not recovery. But the fact that aerial mobility is just worse for most characters now means that Jiggs will get to shine in the niche that she shined in during Melee; heavy gimping and spacing with ridiculous hitboxes.

Gamesandgoodies said:
also if characters recoverys are worse then it's even easier to gimp characters making the pro of going super deep to gimp characters not as good since it's not as important.

I also don't know what you mean in this bit; the problem with gimping in PM is that going deep doesn't do enough, and there are some characters that can recover from deep gimp attempts. If character recovery is worse, then going deep will mean kills, but going shallow in 3.5 will have the same effect that going deep has in 3.02, i.e not much.
 
MMan7172 said:
Maybe 'aerial mobility' was the better term to use for the nerfs, not recovery. But the fact that aerial mobility is just worse for most characters now means that Jiggs will get to shine in the niche that she shined in during Melee; heavy gimping and spacing with ridiculous hitboxes.
okay that's a better way to put it and make slightly more sense. though still a bit meh about the lack of jigglypuff information and buffs.

MMan7172 said:
I also don't know what you mean in this bit; the problem with gimping in PM is that going deep doesn't do enough, and there are some characters that can recover from deep gimp attempts. If character recovery is worse, then going deep will mean kills, but going shallow in 3.5 will have the same effect that going deep has in 3.02, i.e not much.
i'm not sure we're on the same page on stuff, but when i talk going deep i mean going out all the way to near the borders for a gimp and even in 3.02 i feel like that wasn't needed too much to stop people from recovering. going slightly off the stage and hitting them back and/or just edge-hogging was enough to stop most recovery attempts so if recoveries are even worse going deep would be even less important.
 
Gamesandgoodies said:
i'm not sure we're on the same page on stuff, but when i talk going deep i mean going out all the way to near the borders for a gimp and even in 3.02 i feel like that wasn't needed too much to stop people from recovering. going slightly off the stage and hitting them back and/or just edge-hogging was enough to stop most recovery attempts so if recoveries are even worse going deep would be even less important.

It's character specific, but a very disproportionate amount of characters in 3.02 could recover from right next to the blast-zones.
Unless the only people you play against are Roys and Squirtles, then you should have seen this by now.
Lucas, Pit, Charizard, Mario, Mewtwo, and so many other PM top tiers could recover from virtually anywhere on the map that wasn't the blast zones.
 
MMan7172 said:
It's character specific, but a very disproportionate amount of characters in 3.02 could recover from right next to the blast-zones.
Unless the only people you play against are Roys and Squirtles, then you should have seen this by now.
Lucas, Pit, Charizard, Mario, Mewtwo, and so many other PM top tiers could recover from virtually anywhere on the map that wasn't the blast zones.
well yea most can recover from that but with a bit of pressure most characters I felt could be stopped, and the ones that couldn't were generally the top tier ones. like when putting in at least some kind of effort greater than hanging on the edge. in my experiunce knocking most characters away 2 or 3 times before they land results in a kill along with edgehogging. So if characters recover much less, why would jiggly puffs ability to stop recoveries be better when recoveries don't need to be stopped as much? also since more recoveries are worse that means it's easier for other characters to slightly go out and stop those weaker recoveries? i'm pretty confused as to how this helps jigglypuff since it seems more so to help others with issues with gimping as it makes it so you don't need to gimp as much, rather than make the gimp heavy characters better.

Another issue jiggly has in PM is that in the air so many characters outrange her so so her amazing air game isn't that great.

though honestly i doubt I will ever play PM again since i dropped it and it's not a game that can really be picked back up once stopped. at least for me I lose way too much stopping for me to go back.
 
Before the PotD, a little bonus message from Sakurai:
[For users in the Americas] Starting today, you can pre-load the Wii U version. If you’re interested in purchasing the digital version, you should be able to start playing right away on the game's release day without having to deal with a potentially congested server if you use this feature. Check out the link below for more details.

http://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/detail/YXIh5ldOpNjK_4ROED9rAGIfPpZNLHvA

And now for the PotD:
zlCfzSpYC7slRGBLTD

Pic of the day. Long before the game release, we revealed new fighters with videos. The video quality of online streams is not always the best, though. Luckily, you can watch them as they were meant to be in Movies mode on the Wii U version.

zlCfzSpYDDAiv69Exy

You can even re-watch videos that play after you clear Classic mode and Allstar mode. This is a list of videos which are unlocked when you clear certain things. They tend to be short, but you'll get a lot of information if you play them all in one sitting.

I think that may be the first bit of new info we've gotten since the smash direct.
 
Ehhh, it's only semi-new. We knew about the ability to watch the newcomer trailers but not the ending movies that play in Classic Mode and All-star.
 
Apparently I heard Mega Man has an extra special ending movie for one of his. It'll be interesting to see what it is.

maybe it'll confirm a new mega man game
aha just kidding the series is dead because it's not resident evil or street fighter
 
So Sakurai decided to reveal some info.

The character with the lowest win-to-loss record is Little Mac. He MAY OR MAY NOT be nerfed to discourage people from hopping onto him because he's considered "OP".
 
Please no. Don't nerf a character just because he's a scrub killer. Nerf characters that are actually proven to be overpowered.

Except Rosalina. Keep my girl as is.
 
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DDB said:
So Sakurai decided to reveal some info.

The character with the lowest win-to-loss record is Little Mac. He MAY OR MAY NOT be nerfed to discourage people from hopping onto him because he's considered "OP".

lolwut. Source? Or is this a joke?
 
Crayolan said:
lolwut. Source? Or is this a joke?

Goddamn it took some deductive work to realize that DDB was actually making relevant posts.
But not quite, Sakurai has said that online Mac has the worst w/l record, and Kotaku has theorized that he may receive a nerf to discourage people from perceiving him as OP and immediately jumping on to him, but Sakurai hasn't made any such statement.

In fact, what Sakurai actually has to say on the subject is "I believe that averaging out character stats is a bad move in both play and competition."
 
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Yeah, sakurai said in his weekly column that Mac has the lowest win/lose ratio
He thinks it's because that Mac is very visibly powerful, so less skilled players pick him thinking that his strengths completely negate his weaknesses
even though Mac is a very flawed and technical character with very damning weaknesses
 
yea not surprised little mac has the worst w/l record, i consider him a pretty weak character cause of his obvious intentional weakness. It also bugs me when one character is made with an intentional weakness and other characters aren't, which makes it a very good chance of that character with the weakness being much worse.
 
TheMightyBox said:
Goddamn it took some deductive work to realize that DDB was actually making relevant posts.
But not quite, Sakurai has said that online Mac has the worst w/l record, and Kotaku has theorized that he may receive a nerf to discourage people from perceiving him as OP and immediately jumping on to him, but Sakurai hasn't made any such statement.

In fact, what Sakurai actually has to say on the subject is "I believe that averaging out character stats is a bad move in both play and competition."

what kind of logic is this?

"Uh guys, this character is losing A LOT"

"Let's make him even worse, so he loses even more!"
 
I played Yoshi's Story back when it was new as a kid
why didn't I remember that the invincibility power changed the BGM from preschool instruments to FUCKING METAL AS FUCK

I need this in, remix or not. Sakurai pls
 
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Gamesandgoodies said:
yea not surprised little mac has the worst w/l record, i consider him a pretty weak character cause of his obvious intentional weakness. It also bugs me when one character is made with an intentional weakness and other characters aren't, which makes it a very good chance of that character with the weakness being much worse.

Well the idea is that characters with intentional weaknesses also have intentional strengths, so that they balance out the same as characters without intentional weaknesses.

Crayolan said:
what kind of logic is this?

"Uh guys, this character is losing A LOT"

"Let's make him even worse, so he loses even more!"

The key word is Kotaku.
 
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Gamesandgoodies said:
yea not surprised little mac has the worst w/l record, i consider him a pretty weak character cause of his obvious intentional weakness. It also bugs me when one character is made with an intentional weakness and other characters aren't, which makes it a very good chance of that character with the weakness being much worse.

The Bows Junior takes extra damage when you attack just him or the top of his hitbox. I'd say that's an intentional weakness.

Oh and the Pokemon Trainer in Brawl did too with his Pokemon losing stamina, but that's not back for obvious reasons.

And wouldn't Jigglypuffs shieldbreak KO thing be an intentional weakness?

edit:
10153958_1557857377764041_4498047526328525809_n.png


OH SHIT NOT THAT GAME
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE BE A REMIX
 
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Pretty sure Jiggly's shield break insta death is there as a joke, not for balance purposes.
 
Goodbye18000 said:
Nocturne (Sonic: Dark Brotherhood)
Oh sweet salty christ, please be a remix
I'm both even saying that as someone who doesn't want all originals; The sound quality for Chronicles and Dark Brotherhood hold up terrible compared to Sonic Rush, it wouldn't sound a clean as Right There, Ride On

Also, as a legitimate question, what's wrong with Chronicles and Dark Brotherhood? I always liked the idea of a turn-based Sonic RPG, but never played them.
 
Imagine if the only Sonic Remix in the game was from that game. Just imagine.

Now stop imagining and realize it's not a remix because that would be bullshit.
 
TechPowah said:
Also, as a legitimate question, what's wrong with Chronicles and Dark Brotherhood? I always liked the idea of a turn-based Sonic RPG, but never played them.

They're poorly, POORLY executed. Battles are done in "quick time' style like Elite Beat Agents but does not match music, making it stupidly hard. And if you miss ONE QUE the attack fails entirely.

The overworlds are prerendered art a la Final Fantasy 7 but so different in art style from the models it clashes terribly.

Dialogue choices change nothing about the story but the next line of dialogue.

Glitches for days

No proper voices or sound effects from the games, all original terrible things

It's just badly done.

Crayolan said:
Imagine if the only Sonic Remix in the game was from that game. Just imagine.

Now stop imagining and realize it's not a remix because that would be bullshit.

Well, if it's a remix then it's a remix of a remix cause Nocturn is a remix of Big Arm from Sonic 3, which is a great, GREAT song.

But the version in Chronicles proper is UTTER SHIT
 
TheMightyBox said:
Well the idea is that characters with intentional weaknesses also have intentional strengths, so that they balance out the same as characters without intentional weaknesses.
the thing is that never works out well, eventually there will be characters with strengths equal to those intentional strengths but no have the weaknesses.
also the example of brawl pokemon trainer is another reason why it's a bad idea to do that, they turned out to be a very weak character cause you had to keep switching so that kind of just confirms my beleif that it's a bad idea to do that.

I didn't know about the bowser junior thing but that's interesting, do they take less damage at the clown car part?
 
Goodbye18000 said:
75% if you hit the car

115% if you hit the Koopaling/Bowz Jr inside
ah that's interesting. also that's much more reasonable than what they did for little mac or pokemon trainer, since it doens't directly effect how the character is played.
 
THAT'S WHERE IT'S FROM.
Jesus Christ, I saw a gif of that months ago and now I can finally see what the fuck the source is.
 
Some final PM 3.5 costumes

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Lucario Movie armor Charizard

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Japanese Fusion ending / Justin Bailey / American Fusion ending

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fZ8yCPh.jpg

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Recolors

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Results screen

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Yk8Ntmb.png

Legalized/HD stages
 
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