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[Untagged Spoilers Allowed Here] The Spoiler Discussion Thread (for Umbrella's story and onwards)

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I have been thinking a bit lately about this post. Isn't the face of Double's nun form essentially just a copy of the Mother's face without its left half missing?
Anyone know how old this reddit post is? Feels like it's older than Eliza's addition to the game at the very least.
 

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View attachment 16264
I have been thinking a bit lately about this post. Isn't the face of Double's nun form essentially just a copy of the Mother's face without its left half missing?
Anyone know how old this reddit post is? Feels like it's older than Eliza's addition to the game at the very least.
It's from Lab Zero's Reddit AMA from 2015, after all the "Season 0" DLC characters had been released. But yeah, being related to Mother's face would make sense; Double, Lamia and the Mother seem to be closely tied.
 

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It's from Lab Zero's Reddit AMA from 2015, after all the "Season 0" DLC characters had been released. But yeah, being related to Mother's face would make sense; Double, Lamia and the Mother seem to be closely tied.
I wonder what he meant by "forgotten", though. Double forgot what she used to look like? When there are statues and stained glass of a nearly identical woman all over the cathedral?
Makes me think.
 

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I wonder what he meant by "forgotten", though. Double forgot what she used to look like? When there are statues and stained glass of a nearly identical woman all over the cathedral?
Makes me think.
Perhaps it means that Double does not know/remember her true origin, and something happened or was done to her to make her the way she is right now. I wonder how much she knows about the time before she was Double, and how much of the truth the Trinity are telling her.
 
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You really have to appreciate the touches the artists put in the animations at times.
For example, in the extra intros made for SGM, Double has the animation where she kneels, praying in front of the Trinity busts. In her little shapeshifted vignette, there are some lilies. Traditionally in real life, lilies represent purity, fertility, rebirth and are a popular choice for a funeral flower. All of these aspects are relevant to the Trinity, Double and the Skull Heart in some manner.
 
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Would it be correct to assume that the Skull Heart was not destroyed when Skullgirl Selene was defeated by Squigly and company?
We know that Selene and Nancy were 14 and 7 years ago respectively, but we also know that Nancy had a slow transformation -- long enough to have carried and given birth to Umbrella. And based on Umbrella's current age, that would have been 3 or 4 years prior to Nancy fully transforming (With Nancy and Franz's dialogue in SGM confirming that Umbrella was born prior to the time Nancy was a full Skullgirl).
Which, due to the Skull Heart taking 7 years to respawn after being destroyed, would mean that the Heart couldn't have logically been destroyed with Selene as Nancy would have acquired it only a few years later.
 
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Would it be correct to assume that the Skull Heart was not destroyed when Skullgirl Selene was defeated by Squigly and company?
We know that Selene and Nancy were 14 and 7 years ago respectively, but we also know that Nancy had a slow transformation -- long enough to have carried and given birth to Umbrella. And based on Umbrella's current age, that would have been 3 or 4 years prior to Nancy fully transforming (With Nancy and Franz's dialogue in SGM confirming that Umbrella was born prior to the time Nancy was a full Skullgirl).
Which, due to the Skull Heart taking 7 years to respawn after being destroyed, would mean that the Heart couldn't have logically been destroyed with Selene as Nancy would have acquired it only a few years later.
There is no rule that the Skull Heart respawns every 7 years, just that it has been observed that Skullgirls appear approximately every 7 years. It seems more likely that Double knew Nancy's wish was going to take around 4 years to "incubate", so to speak, so she offered it to her early in order to ensure the Skullgirl cycle stay on schedule.

As we saw in Eliza's ending, the Skullgirl and thus the Skull Heart could have just been resurrected almost immediately if needed. The 7-year cycle does not seem to be based on a physical limitation, but by choice.
 
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Would it be correct to assume that the Skull Heart was not destroyed when Skullgirl Selene was defeated by Squigly and company?
Makes a lot of sense.
Is it right to assume, that after Selene's defeat, the Skull Heart somehow ended with the royal family? Maybe Big Band and Panzerfaust had an order to bring it to the Labs for further study? Maybe the Renoirs were trying to get the Skull Heart in their hands, just like Lorenzo?
We never see it being destroyed, but we do see Squigly and Leviathan collapsing.
Logically speaking, Annie had the reasons to destroy it.

Which, due to the Skull Heart taking 7 years to respawn after being destroyed, would mean that the Heart couldn't have logically been destroyed with Selene as Nancy would have acquired it only a few years later.
We need to know more about Nancy's deal with the Skull Heart. It was never outright depicted. No information about how, when and where it happened.
Maybe she made a wish soon after Selene's death. The situation already was kind of desperate.
 
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As we saw in Eliza's ending, the Skullgirl and thus the Skull Heart could have just been resurrected almost immediately if needed. The 7-year cycle does not seem to be based on a physical limitation, but by choice.
I don't know. I always saw the ending of Eliza's story as a bit of a weird dubiously-canon sequel hook that was meant more to say, "Don't worry, guys, Marie will stop Eliza from this really bleak ending", than it being definitive proof of anything the Skull Heart could do.
Obviously, I don't know everything behind the scenes, but I would have figured it a stretch for the Skull Heart to revive a dead Skullgirl.

But you might be correct. I was perhaps just misinterpreting the 7 year thing.
Is it right to assume, that after Selene's defeat, the Skull Heart somehow ended with the royal family? Maybe Big Band and Panzerfaust had an order to bring it to the Labs for further study? Logically speaking, Annie had the reasons to destroy it.
I think it's completely plausible that the Franz and the ASG Labs would have snagged the Heart, but Parasoul's SGM story seems to imply (at least to me) that Nancy was coerced into wishing on the Skull Heart by Double under the impression that Double or the Goddesses would intervene with the war. So my assumption would be that Double had reacquired the Heart at some point and passed it along to Nancy (which is what she would have had to do with or without it being destroyed along with Selene).

Annie not destroying the Heart would be my biggest issue with my theory. She would never let it be allowed to get lost or taken by someone.
 
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I don't know. I always saw the ending of Eliza's story as a bit of a weird dubiously-canon sequel hook that was meant more to say, "Don't worry, guys, Marie will stop Eliza from this really bleak ending", than it being definitive proof of anything the Skull Heart could do.
Obviously, I don't know everything behind the scenes, but I would have figured it a stretch for the Skull Heart to revive a dead Skullgirl.

But you might be correct. I was perhaps just misinterpreting the 7 year thing.
I can see what you mean but unlike the obviously joke stories such as Robo's, Eliza's is a pretty serious story and I don't see why they would have made hers a valid what-if scenario only to add an "impossible" ending. Seems more straightforward to me if the whole story is lore accurate.
 
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The obvious question to ask then would be if the Skull Heart can instantly respawn and revive the last Skullgirl, then why doesn't it always do that?
The reasoning for it doing so against Eliza is because the Trinity has a special hatred of her, but the Trinity's normal plans of destroying the world would inevitably include Eliza as a casualty. So, why would the situation be so urgent in-universe that they'd revive Marie? That's basically why I wondered about the ending
 

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I think it's completely plausible that the Franz and the ASG Labs would have snagged the Heart, but Parasoul's SGM story seems to imply (at least to me) that Nancy was coerced into wishing on the Skull Heart by Double under the impression that Double or the Goddesses would intervene with the war. So my assumption would be that Double had reacquired the Heart at some point and passed it along to Nancy (which is what she would have had to do with or without it being destroyed along with Selene).
Some of the Labs' higher-ups (like Brain Drain) would definitely want to get the Skull Heart. At least, it feels like that, based on Robo-Fortune's story and some deleted endings.
Logically, it makes a lot of sense, considering that Lab 0 was researching Skullgirl blood.

Nancy was manipulated by Double, it's all but outright stated. She probably was chosen as a very good candidate.

Annie not destroying the Heart would be my biggest issue with my theory. She would never let it be allowed to get lost or taken by someone.
We need some official information on this.
I wouldn't believe she still could be on good terms with Big Band after something like that.

The obvious question to ask then would be if the Skull Heart can instantly respawn and revive the last Skullgirl, then why doesn't it always do that?
I thought it was a sort of an emergency respawn, because there wasn't any other candidate available. The Skull Heart usually has a lot of "human material", and Double seems to have a hand in choosing the best possible candidate. But this time the situation was completely different, and they had to use what they had. Marie wasn't even the "suitable" one, but there were no other opportunities in sight.
 
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I can see what you mean but unlike the obviously joke stories such as Robo's, Eliza's is a pretty serious story and I don't see why they would have made hers a valid what-if scenario only to add an "impossible" ending. Seems more straightforward to me if the whole story is lore accurate.
The obvious question to ask then would be if the Skull Heart can instantly respawn and revive the last Skullgirl, then why doesn't it always do that?
The reasoning for it doing so against Eliza is because the Trinity has a special hatred of her, but the Trinity's normal plans of destroying the world would inevitably include Eliza as a casualty. So, why would the situation be so urgent in-universe that they'd revive Marie? That's basically why I wondered about the ending
Plus, and I forgot earlier since it's been awhile, Marie confronting Eliza was a post-credits stinger.
Again, making me think that moment wasn't quite so literal. Marie miraculously swooping in and presumably saving the day against someone much worse. It felt more like a tease to what the plot of the fabled Skullgirls 2 could have felt like and less like the explicit end to Eliza's storymode.
 
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The obvious question to ask then would be if the Skull Heart can instantly respawn and revive the last Skullgirl, then why doesn't it always do that?
The reasoning for it doing so against Eliza is because the Trinity has a special hatred of her, but the Trinity's normal plans of destroying the world would inevitably include Eliza as a casualty. So, why would the situation be so urgent in-universe that they'd revive Marie? That's basically why I wondered about the ending
Before Eliza met Double in her story, she probably didn't even know that Neferu/Sekhmet was still alive. Double seeing Eliza was the only time she lost her cool and caused the Lamia personality to emerge. It certainly wasn't a normal situation for Double.

Lamia obviously carried an extreme grudge for Neferu for (supposedly) killing her daughters and I don't think it's impossible that the revelation that Neferu is still alive caused Lamia (or whatever part of her personality is left in Double) to interrupt the plan and revived Marie in order to have her vengenge.
Some of the Labs' higher-ups (like Brain Drain) would definitely want to get the Skull Heart. At least, it feels like that, based on Robo-Fortune's story and some deleted endings.
Logically, it makes a lot of sense, considering that Lab 0 was researching Skullgirl blood.
In Painwheel's story, Brain Drain orders her to retrieve the Skull Heart and return it to Lab 0, so yeah it has always been their goal and not something created for Robo's story.
Plus, and I forgot earlier since it's been awhile, Marie confronting Eliza was a post-credits stinger.
Again, making me think that moment wasn't quite so literal. Marie miraculously swooping in and presumably saving the day against someone much worse. It felt more like a tease to what the plot of the fabled Skullgirls 2 could have felt like and less like the explicit end to Eliza's storymode.
I don't think it being post-credit makes it any less "literal" than the rest of the story. Squigly, Annie and Umbrella's stories all have post-credit segments and far as we know they can be taken literally.
 
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With us halfway through July and getting close to EVO. I decided to make this preemptively. A bingo/speculation chart for Black Dahlia's story.
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I also am curious about one thing. In SGM, Lorenzo was shown to be fighting Selene. What do you think his fighting style is? I can't really see him attempting to punch out a Skullgirl, life gem or not.
 

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What do you think his fighting style is?
That's a very interesting question.
Can't imagine him fighting, but he probably could, when the Life Gem was backing him up.

A bingo/speculation chart for Black Dahlia's story.
Exactly what we need. This, Dahlia's backstory, the lore about the Labs and Irvin. Lots of Irvin.

Personally, I hope that the Circus will have a role in the story, considering Dahlia's ties to the crew. These guys and girls are criminally underused.
 
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With us halfway through July and getting close to EVO. I decided to make this preemptively. A bingo/speculation chart for Black Dahlia's story.
Lol I like it, especially the free slot. Poor Marie.

I also am curious about one thing. In SGM, Lorenzo was shown to be fighting Selene. What do you think his fighting style is? I can't really see him attempting to punch out a Skullgirl, life gem or not.
I imagine him using stereotypical old-timey Mafia concealed weapons, like a revolver, a stiletto, a garrote, a straight razor; or some combinations of those. His style would probably be heavily offensive without caring much about defending against damages since he has the Life Gem to heal all his wounds or preventing damage in the first place.

Exactly what we need. This, Dahlia's backstory, the lore about the Labs and Irvin. Lots of Irvin.

Personally, I hope that the Circus will have a role in the story, considering Dahlia's ties to the crew. These guys and girls are criminally underused.
I'm hoping we get to see some more Beatrix. Not that big of a fan of her character but she seems to be the one who looks up to Dahlia the most and I think there would be some interesting interactions between them.

As much as I would love to see more Irvin I'm not sure how he would fit into Dahlia's story at this point yet. I think we could possibly get more backstory on why the River King's Daughters get kidnapped but it might be before Irvin gets involved? I guess we'll see.

But yeah the one unseen character that I think has the best chance of appearing and I do hope appear is Dr. Geiger.
 
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Relating to the conversation in the Social Media post analysis thread, but if we assume that Riccardo and Lawrence are Vitale's personal teenage girl kidnappers, then we can probably assume that they kidnapped Minette for a reason other than just getting back at Ms. Fortune for beating them and that Riccardo was harassing Filia because he was looking to kidnap her as well.
Also some scary implications if we learn that they also kidnapped Carol, since Riccardo doesn't seem like he leaves girls unmolested.
 
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then we can probably assume that they kidnapped Minette for a reason other than just getting back at Ms. Fortube for beating them
There was definitely some other reason, because they were kidnapping the other daughters of the River King too.
Some fans believe it is related to the Life Gem, but we don't know the truth yet.
Dahlia's story might give us an answer.

Riccardo was harassing Filia because he was looking to kidnap her as well.
It doesn't look that he recognized her during that encounter. Seems that he was just being himself, trying to harass a young girl just because he wanted to.

If we assume that he was ordered with kidnapping Filia to begin with. It's just a fan theory for now.

Also some scary implications if we learn that they also kidnapped Carol, since Riccardo doesn't seem like he leaves girls unmolested.
Okay, that is a pretty scary implication.
Riccardo is a major creep.
 
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Relating to the conversation in the Social Media post analysis thread, but if we assume that Riccardo and Lawrence are Vitale's personal teenage girl kidnappers, then we can probably assume that they kidnapped Minette for a reason other than just getting back at Ms. Fortune for beating them and that
Yeah, in Ms. Fortune story Lawrence literally said "There she is! That fishfolk dame we were sent to find!"

Riccardo was harassing Filia because he was looking to kidnap her as well.
I concur with Holy Goose that in that scene Riccardo was just hitting on what he thought was a random girl drinking by herself. As it was confirmed in the past, Filia looks a lot different now than she used to (heavier, different hairstyle), so Riccardo who wasn't close to her wouldn't have recognised her.
 
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Riccardo could want to kidnap filia without knowing who she was.
The Medici do deal in human trafficking and slavery. A girl like Filia could be an ideal target.
 

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I concur with Holy Goose that in that scene Riccardo was just hitting on what he thought was a random girl drinking by herself. As it was confirmed in the past, Filia looks a lot different now than she used to (heavier, different hairstyle), so Riccardo who wasn't close to her wouldn't have recognised her.
And to think about it, wasn't she believed to be dead at that point?
 

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And to think about it, wasn't she believed to be dead at that point?
I think they would have figured that she is alive if they didn't find her body.

Riccardo could want to kidnap filia without knowing who she was.
The Medici do deal in human trafficking and slavery. A girl like Filia could be an ideal target.
That's possible yeah. Riccardo could be trying to lure in random girls for trafficking purposes, although I'm not sure if he's very good at his job.
 
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With Lorenzo in decline, I think it would be neat if we had a good grasp of how much of the evil things the Medici presently are his fault or if there's some other actor within the Medici probably Vitale who is acting behind Lorenzo's back and causing a lot of the pain and suffering. The above line from SGM, plus some of Lorenzo's mentions of the Meridian Kingdom makes me feel that he had much more "noble" goals in mind with the mafia than just running organized crime and undermining the Renoirs.

Some also things I have been thinking about:
-Double appears in No Man's Land to Marie. I have wondered if there was specific reason she was out there. Nancy was killed in No Man's Land, so should we assume that the Skull Heart reappeared out there and Double tracked it, eventually happening across the angriest little girl in the world?
-Also, was it ever explicitly confirmed that Double respawns? Some of the game's dialogue implies that if she's killed, she'll just eventually reappear similar to the Skull Heart. Her last taunt to Annie in Beowulf's story, for instance. One of Big Band's victory quotes is another, but a bit more ambiguous. Granted, she might not even need to necessarily respawn because it seems like the entirety of the underground of Maplecrest, if not more, is Double.
 
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With Lorenzo in decline, I think it would be neat if we had a good grasp of how much of the evil things the Medici presently are his fault or if there's some other actor within the Medici probably Vitale who is acting behind Lorenzo's back and causing a lot of the pain and suffering. The above line from SGM, plus some of Lorenzo's mentions of the Meridian Kingdom makes me feel that he had much more "noble" goals in mind with the mafia than just running organized crime and undermining the Renoirs.
Like any good villain, Lorenzo believes he's doing the right thing. As we have gathered from SGM stories and what have been confirmed outside the game, his family is descended from the original inheritors of the land. Lorenzo sees himself as the rightful ruler of Meridian, and he sees the Meridian way of life in a constant struggle against the Renoir occupiers who want to erase their culture and history. But since the laws are drawn up by the Canopy government, he needs to operate outside the law in order to do it.

I don't think it makes sense that Lorenzo is innocent of the evils of the Medici. He has been the patriarch of the clan for a long time (according to the Skullgirls world-building text, longer than anyone can remember), so his power must be extremely consolidated and he must have overseen everything that the Medici are responsible for. Most prominently, I'm sure he knows of the slavery operations in No Man's Land. If we're talking about Medici operations that cause the most pain and suffering, that one definitely takes the cake. I think it could make sense that Vitale is even more ruthless than his father and perhaps have less noble goals (as hinted in Cerebella's story), but let's not whitewash Lorenzo's own sins.

As for the above line, you need to read it within context. The Medici, like the real-life Mafia, make a lot of money from operating gambling dens and casinos. In the story, they got into hot water because cops they have not paid off like Ben were trying to bust their illegal gambling operation. In the long term, running an illegal gambling den is very expensive, what with having to constantly move locations to avoid the law and pay off dirty cops. After the whole Ben drama goes down, Lorenzo decided it wasn't worth the effort and that it would be better to open and operate a legitimate casino, even if it means bowing to the Renoirs' laws.

Some also things I have been thinking about:
-Double appears in No Man's Land to Marie. I have wondered if there was specific reason she was out there. Nancy was killed in No Man's Land, so should we assume that the Skull Heart reappeared out there and Double tracked it, eventually happening across the angriest little girl in the world?
I think it's just that it's easiest to convince women who are in the most difficult positions to wish on the Skull Heart, and there is nowhere else in the world with as much pain and strive as in No Man's Land.

-Also, was it ever explicitly confirmed that Double respawns? Some of the game's dialogue implies that if she's killed, she'll just eventually reappear similar to the Skull Heart. Her last taunt to Annie in Beowulf's story, for instance. One of Big Band's victory quotes is another, but a bit more ambiguous. Granted, she might not even need to necessarily respawn because it seems like the entirety of the underground of Maplecrest, if not more, is Double.
I don't believe she's ever been killed, in canon or any of the what-if stories. Her true body is the entirety of Gehenna and what we fight is almost like a leaf on a big tree. Even if you crush one leaf the tree is still living and can grow new ones.
 

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I don't think it makes sense that Lorenzo is innocent of the evils of the Medici.
Squigly's story kind of sums it up.
Big Band's origin helps too.
Lorenzo is hardly innocent, to put it mildly.
Well, at least he didn't seem to order his son's murder.

The above line from SGM, plus some of Lorenzo's mentions of the Meridian Kingdom makes me feel that he had much more "noble" goals in mind with the mafia than just running organized crime and undermining the Renoirs.
Like organising the slave trade.
Or drugging Grendel.
Or blackmailing what is essentially an ancient vampire to work for him.
Or murdering the Contiellos.
Or dealing with Ms. Fortune's gang in a very dismembering way.

Lorenzo Medici and his noble ways, everyone.

And I'm not even talking about the whole affair with the Skull Heart or the Life Gem... He seeks a lot of power, that's for sure. I doubt there are some altruistic motives behind it.

I think it's just that it's easiest to convince women who are in the most difficult positions to wish on the Skull Heart, and there is nowhere else in the world with as much pain and strive as in No Man's Land.
Makes a lot of sense, considering that she sort of helped to create it.

Her true body is the entirety of Gehenna and what we fight is almost like a leaf on a big tree. Even if you crush one leaf the tree is still living and can grow new ones.
Actually, how big Gehenna seems to be? And how did it appear in the first place?
So many questions, not enough answers.
 
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Corridor89

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I didn't mean to imply that I thought Lorenzo was a good guy. He very obviously isn't, but my specific question was in referral of how much he was responsible for since losing the Life Gem and how many crimes of the Medici would have been laid at the feet of others in the mafia instead of Lorenzo. While also bringing to attention that he's the only person in the Medici who has outright voiced some greater ideal than just criminal activity. Which is a character moment that I find to be of interest. Especially when prior to SGM, all the Medici were portrayed as equally ruthless and equally criminal.

Also, regarding the Contiellos, Lorezeno was outright tricked into attacking them by Double. He's still guilty of having them slaughtered, but it's not as if his action was unprovoked (which is the wrong word, but I can't think of a more fitting one. From his perspective, he was making a preemptive strike).
Blackmailing Eliza is hardly a crime when you recall that Eliza is just as bad, if not worse, than even he is. It was also Dahlia who killed the Fishbone Gang, not Lorenzo.
 
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I didn't mean to imply that I thought Lorenzo was a good guy. He very obviously isn't, but my specific question was in referral of how much he was responsible for since losing the Life Gem and how many crimes of the Medici would have been laid at the feet of others in the mafia instead of Lorenzo. While also bringing to attention that he's the only person in the Medici who has outright voiced some greater ideal than just criminal activity. Which is a character moment that I find to be of interest. Especially when prior to SGM, all the Medici were portrayed as equally ruthless and equally criminal.
I think that in the older stories, all the characters and factions, not just the Medici, were portrayed in a much more straightforward way. I think the plan was always to give the players initial impressions and then gradually challenge your assumptions as a mechanism to keep the story interesting. Probably the most clear example was Val being portrayed like a straight up villain, and only after going through the stories and unlocking hers that you get to see her more complex motivations. The Medici and Lorenzo just get a more delayed treatment.

Also, regarding the Contiellos, Lorezeno was outright tricked into attacking them by Double. He's still guilty of having them slaughtered, but it's not as if his action was unprovoked (which is the wrong word, but I can't think of a more fitting one. From his perspective, he was making a preemptive strike).
They were "tricked" by Double (well, not even technically tricked since Double told them Selene has the Skull Heart, and she did have the Skull Heart), but the moral blame clearly lies with him. If I were told that someone stole my car or something, and my response is to kill them and their entire family, I'd definitely be the bad guy. Maybe he thinks the ends justifies the means, but that's exactly how villains think.

Blackmailing Eliza is hardly a crime when you recall that Eliza is just as bad, if not worse, than even he is.
Yeah Eliza is hardly a saint, but far as the Medici know, she's just a Parasite user who tricks people into giving her blood that she needs to survive. Blackmailing her is still an evil action with evil intention, and just because Eliza is evil, it does not absolve them of moral responsibility.

It was also Dahlia who killed the Fishbone Gang, not Lorenzo.
If someone keeps an assassin on payroll with the intention of having that assassin assassinate people, then they are definitely responsible when that assassin does their job.

But yeah, I think the point is Lorenzo is an interesting villain, with complex motivations. (Although most of these are still implied rather than outright confirmed so it remains to be seen how he will be portrayed in future stories.) There are definitely worse people in the SG story than Lorenzo, but that doesn't make his evil actions better.
 

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Until we learn the exact circumstances of the fishbone gang stealing the life gem, I would almost say that they likely had their eventual deaths coming.
 

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He very obviously isn't, but my specific question was in referral of how much he was responsible for since losing the Life Gem and how many crimes of the Medici would have been laid at the feet of others in the mafia instead of Lorenzo.
The thing is, he lost the Life Gem very recently...
Though, I believe that Lorenzo is innocent, when it comes to the murder of Filia's family, or maybe even Carol's disappearance. At least, he doesn't seem to have a motivation for doing it.

He's still guilty of having them slaughtered, but it's not as if his action was unprovoked (which is the wrong word, but I can't think of a more fitting one. From his perspective, he was making a preemptive strike).
Considering the situation, he always had an upper hand on Squigly's family. Dahlia outright calls them Lorenzo's "pretty caged birds".
Basically, he ordered the murder of the people he previously abused.

Blackmailing Eliza is hardly a crime when you recall that Eliza is just as bad, if not worse, than even he is.
Yes, and they were trying to force her to make the dirty work for them. Not really a good thing to do.

They were "tricked" by Double (well, not even technically tricked since Double told them Selene has the Skull Heart, and she did have the Skull Heart)
To think about it, the only person that was tricked there is Selene (and her family, by extension).
Making the Medicis attacking her after that was pretty natural.

It was also Dahlia who killed the Fishbone Gang, not Lorenzo
Well, he didn't kill the Contiellos personally, too...
Dahlia is essentially a glorified "hired gun" to Lorenzo. The order clearly came from him.

But yeah, I think the point is Lorenzo is an interesting villain, with complex motivations. (Although most of these are still implied rather than outright confirmed so it remains to be seen how he will be portrayed in future stories.) There are definitely worse people in the SG story than Lorenzo, but that doesn't make his evil actions better.
He is definitely an interesting case of an antagonist, and I would like to see more of him.
There's just so much lore here.

If someone keeps an assassin on payroll with the intention of having that assassin assassinate people
It sounds almost poetic...
 
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Actually, how big Gehenna seems to be? And how did it appear in the first place?
So many questions, not enough answers.
Pretty big just based on the artwork alone. Things get confusing if you recall the old Canopy Kingdom map that has the Grand Cathedral on a cliff, which may raise some questions if everything is still laid out the same with Gehenna being immediately under the cathedral's catacombs.
For that matter, how Final Atrium works too is a bit confusing. Sometimes it's the exploded cathedral overrun with the Skullgirl's energy, sometimes it's almost portrayed as being another layer beneath the catacombs.
Here's a thought, given that Gehenna IS Double, why not assume it can be as big or small as she wants to be? Or we can even assume that Gehenna isn't restricted to a single spot and can move about underneath the world.
 
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Pretty big just based on the artwork alone. Things get confusing if you recall the old Canopy Kingdom map that has the Grand Cathedral on a cliff, which may raise some questions if everything is still laid out the same with Gehenna being immediately under the cathedral's catacombs.
For that matter, how Final Atrium works too is a bit confusing. Sometimes it's the exploded cathedral overrun with the Skullgirl's energy, sometimes it's almost portrayed as being another layer beneath the catacombs.
Here's a thought, given that Gehenna IS Double, why not assume it can be as big or small as she wants to be? Or we can even assume that Gehenna isn't restricted to a single spot and can move about underneath the world.
Yeah, I also lean towards Gehenna not being fixed to a single space, or at least it's not there all the time. In Annie's story, after defeating Marie, she just walked down the Cathedral's catacombs to fight Double in Gehenna, which raises the question why she didn't just go there previously rather than waiting for the Skullgirl to appear. My best explanation for it is that Gehenna is not accessible or locatable until a Skullgirl event happens.

For the Final Atrium stage, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be the exploded Grand Cathedral, but the Cathedral itself extends all the way underground to the catacombs. In the background of the stage, you can see the catacombs in the lower half, and you can also see the moon in the upper half. So they are standing in the catacombs level and the floor and ceiling of the Cathedral have been destroyed.

The Theonite veins extend even beyond the catacombs to cave networks below though as we can see in other scenes (e.g. in Beo's story), but I think those are technically separate, but connected, locations from Final Atrium.
 
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The Skull Heart shard seems to be an explanation on why Marie survives despite the Skull Heart being destroyed. Lore-wise, it probably is also supposed to explain how she can have a playable version that's not an extremely powerful Skullgirl, but rather a "depowered" Skullgirl with only a shard of the Heart rather than a full one.
 

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I always thought Marie was just as "powerful" as she was because she's only ever fought in the catacombs of the Grand Cathedral/Final Atrium, where she has immediate access to virtually limitless resources. Similarly, I thought the whole reason Valentine and her team lost to Marie (and Double) was because they challenged her in No Man's Land.

I know she's not powerless without corpses lying around, but a limit to her resources could mean a fairer fight?
Though I guess this goes out the window the moment you put playable Marie into Final Atrium or No Man's Land, lol.