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[Untagged Spoilers Allowed Here] The Spoiler Discussion Thread (for Marie's story and onwards)

Chrono_Tata

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In anticipation for Annie's story release today, spoilers have become a relevant subject again. :p

To keep people getting spoiled to a minimum, please discuss anything related to Annie's Umbrella's story (and future stories) on this thread.

EDIT: I think Annie's story has been out long enough now that it can be discussed in a non-spoiler context

For other threads that aren't directly concerned with such stories (such as the Canon Info Thread) but where spoiler info might be relevant to the discussion, please at least tag your spoilers accordingly using in-line spoilers like this or the expandable spoiler tag.

Thanks all!

EDIT 2: Now that Dahlia's story is out I think Umbrella's story can also join Annie's to be able to be discussed within non-spoiler contexts.
 
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Well let me get this going with some thoughts lol

- Seems like one of the Fishbone Gang members was called Sinker! I wonder which one it could have been.

- "Florence Méliès" - surname is clearly a reference to the pioneer film maker Georges Méliès. Any thoughts what her first name is reference to?

- Blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment - D. Violet was a protégé of Annie??

- Oh my god Annie's mom with her Skullgirl design. Too bad we didn't find out her name

- ANNABELLA
 
Hoo boy, do I have some THOUGHTS lmao

You posted before I could write everything down, so some thoughts may have shared with mine, but in ANY CASE:

- To kick things off, the first fight makes Robo-Fortune canon which is not something I expected.
- One of the names of the Fishbone Gang members, Sinker, was revealed by Fortune. Still waiting on that origin story lmao
- Having the Selene squad reunited and in an actual fight is just adorable even if it was just for one fight.
- Both the Big Band/Carol fight and Marie yeeting the building have happened more than once now. I'd say maybe this helps to establish them as canon....but Squigly fighting Parasoul happened twice too and we never saw it in Annie's story mode lol
- Annie mentions her "old protege"--there's only one last person she could be referring to and that's Deep Violet! Seems the two have some sort of connection outside of the Selene battle, and it seems to be a rather important one.
- Reusing the talksprites from the Origin Stories was such a smart move to make the scene more impactful (especially if you played Squig's origin story)
- WE GOT SOME GOOD LORE REVEALS RIGHT AT THE END OMG
-- Annie's original look pre-Skullgirl PLUS her name, Annabella got revealed
-- Her mother pre and post-Skull Heart were revealed (no name tho)
-- All we're missing now is the exact "when"--which I'm sure we'll get at some point when Annie's origin story is shown off (which is now even more likely now that we have talksprites of Annie and her mother's looks in the past!)
- Annie was a radio star during the harsh rule of the Canopy Kingdom (possibly during Franz's rule?) before hitting the big screen--that whole exposition was pretty nice!!
- Aileen gets to be the life double for Annie...that's heartwarming :DDDD
- Why was I surprised that Sagan can talk. He's a parasite, why am i still surprised at this lmao

Anyway I got some writing for the timeline doc now lol
 
- To kick things off, the first fight makes Robo-Fortune canon which is not something I expected.
Man I totally called it earlier today that Annie's story was gonna make her canon lol. The subject came up on Discord and I knew they were gonna do it just to mess with me.

- Annie was a radio star during the harsh rule of the Canopy Kingdom (possibly during Franz's rule?) before hitting the big screen--that whole exposition was pretty nice!!
Oh yeah some interesting observation about that. The TV show is "Annie of the Stars" but the old radio show is "Annie: Girl of the Stars".

Clearly a retcon and the information doesn't match with Para and Peacock's bios. Not sure if that will be updated at some point.

- Why was I surprised that Sagan can talk. He's a parasite, why am i still surprised at this lmao
Lol yeah we already knew he could talk from his line in Photo Bop super, but seeing him earlier in the story just grunting I thought they were gonna go with that. (Annie seems to understand his grunts as well which was hilarious) But when he started talking properly that was something.
 
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Oh yeah some interesting observation about that. The TV show is "Annie of the Stars" but the old radio show is "Annie: Girl of the Stars".

Clearly a retcon and the information doesn't match with Para and Peacock's bios. Not sure if that will be updated at some point.
I mean maybe not. "Annie: Girl of the Stars" could just be the name of the radio show, while "Annie of the Stars" is the name of the TV show. After all, they did use the latter for Annie's reveal trailer, so I wouldn't say it's retconned.
Lol yeah we already knew he could talk from his line in Photo Bop super, but seeing him earlier in the story just grunting I thought they were gonna go with that. (Annie seems to understand his grunts as well which was hilarious) But when he started talking properly that was something.
I forgot he did that lmao. That's amazing.
 
Also can we talk about the text on the newspaper? This is all hilarious. I'd try and transcript it myself but Maguma did a good job just reading everything:
 
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I mean maybe not. "Annie: Girl of the Stars" could just be the name of the radio show, while "Annie of the Stars" is the name of the TV show. After all, they did use the latter for Annie's reveal trailer, so I wouldn't say it's retconned.
Para and Peacock's bio clearly says "TV Show “Annie: Girl of the Stars" lol. So some time between the old bios being written and Annie's bio/story someone decided to change the name of the TV show.

Also can we talk about the text on the newspaper? This is all hilarious. I'd try and transcript it myself but Maguma did a good job just reading everything:
Yeah the texts were great lol. Also read the whole thing when I saw it. The entire Eliza article being Lorem ipsum is such disrespect. :p
 
So is Robo Fortune really for real canon now? Is there anything confirming this? (I figure since the characters stories aren't exactly 100% canon I'd ask.)
 
I was screaming right at the first fight.
Now waiting for Kimlinh to shine in the voiced story mode.
It's great that the art about Robo-Fortune being a staff writer at the Annie's show is almost canon. Love this picture :D
Though it's kinda weird that Annie didn't catch the similarities between her first two opponents.

Annie's story is amazing for me. That's quite a lot of lore. We got to see the first ever Skullgirl!
Though there's still a lot of questions. Now we really need D. Violet as a playable character.

I like these little call-backs to Beowulf's story and Mobile's origin stories. Nice to see these guest appearances. Also, Big Band trying to take care about Painwheel seems to have a chance to be canon, which is great.

Florence's line about Zane is intriguing. I suppose, he was a creep even before Double decided to cosplay him.

I was hoping to see Parasoul in this story mode, but maybe she would be out of place here. Anyway, she'll probably be a huge part of the next one, alongside Egrets. Now, when this wait is over, I'll be waiting for something else :D
 
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Very happy with Annie's story mode. Plenty of crossovers with most of the roster and long interesting conversations. Some of the other characters' story modes are sometimes in a hurry to the next location to battle. No rush here.
- "Florence Méliès" - surname is clearly a reference to the pioneer film maker Georges Méliès. Any thoughts what her first name is reference to?
Well, the real Medici family in our history are from Florence. Many famous Medicis, but the most notable, Lorenzo de' Medici ruled Florence in the second half of the 15th century. Another historical nod?

Or maybe the writer was listening to the English indie band, Florence + the Machine, at the time?
So is Robo Fortune really for real canon now?
Surprised RF got canonized and amused she was found like a pile of trash in some field. What are you doing Brain Drain?!

However, I refuse to welcome Fukua. She must never be canon (diminishes Filia and Samson)

Add to the reveals list:
+ Big Band's first Skullgirl was Selene 14 years ago! Makes me wonder if that helps pinpoint when he became a cyborg.
+ That liar, Double hinting at how close Annie was to uncovering the truth, the root to "break the cycle."
+ Add janitor to Double's résumé
 
Surprised RF got canonized and amused she was found like a pile of trash in some field. What are you doing Brain Drain?!
So, it's probably a failed prototype? Or maybe this Robo-Fortune couldn't complete her mission and broke down during... something.
Either way, Brain Drain is bad for the environment.

Big Band's first Skullgirl was Selene 14 years ago! Makes me wonder if that helps pinpoint when he became a cyborg.
Wasn't it stated in Mobile, that Ben became Big Band about sixteen years before Marie became the Skullgirl?
About that. I thought Ileum was fighting Selene alongside him and the rest, but there's no sight of her.

Add janitor to Double's résumé
She's really a blob of many talents.
Or maybe it's just a current "theme", to fit with Marie and her image :D
 
Hoo boy, I got lots of people to talk to now, LOL

Para and Peacock's bio clearly says "TV Show “Annie: Girl of the Stars" lol. So some time between the old bios being written and Annie's bio/story someone decided to change the name of the TV show.
Oh so they do. Interesting...

Annie's story is amazing for me. That's quite a lot of lore. We got to see the first ever Skullgirl!
I don't think Annie's mom was the first Skullgirl (at least as far as we know), but she's definitely the oldest Skullgirl and that's what matters.

Florence's line about Zane is intriguing. I suppose, he was a creep even before Double decided to cosplay him.
See, it might be possible Zane was a different person pre-Double, but judging from Annie's post-credits scene I get the sense that Double basically "crafted" Zane similar to the Sister look she primarily uses. Maybe to spy on the world of media in search of Skullgirls?

Very happy with Annie's story mode. Plenty of crossovers with most of the roster and long interesting conversations. Some of the other characters' story modes are sometimes in a hurry to the next location to battle. No rush here.
Yeah Beo's did this too if I remember. I kinda like this pace for storytelling--makes me wish we got more of it, especially in Mobile.

+ That liar, Double hinting at how close Annie was to uncovering the truth, the root to "break the cycle."
Double's definitely got something to do with ending the cycle, that much has been alluded to. Not sure what it could even be though--maybe Umbrella's story mode could shed light on the subject?
Wasn't it stated in Mobile, that Ben became Big Band about sixteen years before Marie became the Skullgirl?
About that. I thought Ileum was fighting Selene alongside him and the rest, but there's no sight of her.
Yup, Ben becomes an ASG agent 16 years before Marie--and 2 years before Selene. I've been keeping tabs on when everything happens in the timeline (which I've compiled into a doc--you should read it!)

As for Ileum...*shrug*. I assume it was just the writers forgetting to add her or not feeling like she was important enough yet.

Ironically enough, Annie gets a similar treatment as she supposedly helps fight off Nancy--but she never shows up in Parasoul's story mode. Ileum does, though!
 
So is Robo Fortune really for real canon now? Is there anything confirming this? (I figure since the characters stories aren't exactly 100% canon I'd ask.)
The way I take it is Robo's existence to the universe is canonised now, but her story mode is still a joke story that shouldn't be taken toooo seriously.

Florence's line about Zane is intriguing. I suppose, he was a creep even before Double decided to cosplay him.
Like Brawlitup said, maybe he's always been Double lol. It's not really clear.

Well, the real Medici family in our history are from Florence. Many famous Medicis, but the most notable, Lorenzo de' Medici ruled Florence in the second half of the 15th century. Another historical nod?

Or maybe the writer was listening to the English indie band, Florence + the Machine, at the time?
Hmm interesting. The Medici connection could make sense. Florence + The Machine could be a really advanced reference to the Robo-Fortune bit.

Surprised RF got canonized and amused she was found like a pile of trash in some field. What are you doing Brain Drain?!
I believe it's a reference to her own story mode after she got Evangelion-lifted up from the underground base and broke apart in the field:

PT01_10D_LRG_small.png


So implying that compared to Annie's story, the timeline diverges there lol.

As for Ileum...*shrug*. I assume it was just the writers forgetting to add her or not feeling like she was important enough yet.
I think maybe instead of directly fighting the Selene, she could have been at ground level fighting minions and helping civilians or something? As her lore said, her power is pretty horrific and she doesn't really want to show them unless she really has to, so maybe she decided to leave it to Band to fight directly.
 
The way I take it is Robo's existence to the universe is canonised now, but her story mode is still a joke story that shouldn't be taken toooo seriously.
That's a good point I hadn't considered that just being there at all would mean that she's canonically existing.
 
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See, it might be possible Zane was a different person pre-Double, but judging from Annie's post-credits scene I get the sense that Double basically "crafted" Zane similar to the Sister look she primarily uses. Maybe to spy on the world of media in search of Skullgirls?
I was thinking about that too.
If "Zane" is really Double's artificial persona, it leaves a question about her motivation to do so. Then, maybe, it was useful for her to be someone successful, powerful and with opportunity to know about the shady dealings happening.

Double's definitely got something to do with ending the cycle, that much has been alluded to. Not sure what it could even be though--maybe Umbrella's story mode could shed light on the subject?
Considering what we know about her "job", it might be true. She was searching for the right hosts, testing them, spreading the word about the power of the Skull Heart and so on. Maybe, her connection to it is even deeper, and it's possible to break the cycle through Double. Makes sense, because her main responsibility is to maintain it.

I believe it's a reference to her own story mode after she got Evangelion-lifted up from the underground base and broke apart in the field:
I want to believe this is canon :D

I think maybe instead of directly fighting the Selene, she could have been at ground level fighting minions and helping civilians or something? As her lore said, her power is pretty horrific and she doesn't really want to show them unless she really has to, so maybe she decided to leave it to Band to fight directly.
Makes sense.
Maybe, she was fighting Selene, just not in the front lines. In Squigly's origin story Big Band said something about "concerned citizens". I suppose it meant the Labs.
 
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Makes sense.
Maybe, she was fighting Selene, just not in the front lines. In Squigly's origin story Big Band said something about "concerned citizens". I suppose it meant the Labs.
My take is the "concerned citizens" are D. Violet and Annie actually. Lab personnel are basically soldiers (or agents as the new story mode wants to call it), but Annie and Violet are technically civilians since they aren't affiliated with any organisation.
 
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So, references for the new names that appeared the Annie's story:

As mentioned earlier, and probably the most obvious one, Georges Méliès, one of the pioneers of cinema:

meiles.png

Florence Lawrence, the "first" movie actress:

florence.png

Aileen Quinn, who played "Orphan" Annie Warbucks in the 1982 film version. Probably the actress most people associate the character with. Far as I know, she's the third actress to play Annie on screen (a clue?)

aileen.png

Annabella, famous French film actress active in the 20s-50s. (Thanks to NK on Discord for finding this one) The era definitely seems to fit with the theme of SG.

annabella.png

I'm still pretty sure Annie itself is a reference to Carl Sagan's wife, Ann Druyan, but this is probably one of those cases of double references, like how Eliza's name is a reference to both Elizabeth Bathory and Elizabeth Taylor.
 
*dusts hands* Case closed! That's a convincing string of references.

Over in the SGM forums we were discussing Annie's age. Brawlitup99's Timeline Thread follows the wiki's guess of Annie is forever 15. The number comes from a dubious citation in the Canon Info Thread:
  • Age: Unknown (15 forever) (listed on the official website for a few days before it got taken down)
To me, the act of deletion is proof the creators don't agree 15 is correct. I'd estimate Annie was "older than Umbrella, but younger than Filia" when the Skull Heart curse stopped her aging.

Annie and Annie's Mom's Renaissance-looking clothing makes me think Annie has lived around 500 years if SG's universe timeline is similar to our universe's timeline (it is said current SG universe is like our 1940s). Easily at least 2 centuries.

Another fascinating tangent: Annie is the only evidence of the Skull Heart granting a wish. The other Skullgirls got ironic, technically "wish granted" (but not in a fair, or helpful way) results:
  • Selene wanted her family back. Makes undead minions -- something a Skullgirl can do anyway.
  • Nancy wanted peace. The warring factions unite in fighting a greater threat: the Skullgirl.
  • Marie wanted to save her captured friends. The rescue was a failure but Marie continued her path of revenge.
Each one is like "where is the magic?"
 
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Technically, the original wish was to make it so that annie wouldn't have to face 'the hardships of adulthood', keeping her a child forever was the skull heart's way of twisting the wish.
 
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Over in the SGM forums we were discussing Annie's age. Brawlitup99's Timeline Thread follows the wiki's guess of Annie is forever 15. The number comes from a dubious citation in the Canon Info Thread:
  • Age: Unknown (15 forever) (listed on the official website for a few days before it got taken down)
To me, the act of deletion is proof the creators don't agree 15 is correct. I'd estimate Annie was "older than Umbrella, but younger than Filia" when the Skull Heart curse stopped her aging.
The deletion of Annie's age entry wasn't because they were deleting the age of Annie specifically, it's because all the character age entries were deleted.
 
Another fascinating tangent: Annie is the only evidence of the Skull Heart granting a wish. The other Skullgirls got ironic, technically "wish granted" (but not in a fair, or helpful way) results:
Not really. As we can see in different Story Modes, the Skull Heart always finds a way to twist a wish. Parasoul and Valentine might be exceptions, but their situations were quite different from the rest.

Technically, the original wish was to make it so that annie wouldn't have to face 'the hardships of adulthood', keeping her a child forever was the skull heart's way of twisting the wish.
And then, judging by Annie and Double's dialogue, it got twisted even more. Ouch.

Marie wanted to save her captured friends. The rescue was a failure but Marie continued her path of revenge.
I might have missed that, but what was Marie's wish exactly? Was it revealed at all?
 
I might have missed that, but what was Marie's wish exactly? Was it revealed at all?
I don't think it was ever revealed exactly but the best clue was from her bio "A mysterious figure offered her a powerful artifact, the Skull Heart, as a chance to save the others. Sadly, she did not arrive in time and became the next Skullgirl." So presumably her wish had something to do with trying to save her friends.
 
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I don't think it was ever revealed exactly but the best clue was from her bio "A mysterious figure offered her a powerful artifact, the Skull Heart, as a chance to save the others. Sadly, she did not arrive in time and became the next Skullgirl." So presumably her wish had something to do with trying to save her friends.
So, there's another reason to wait for Marie's story mode :PUN:
 
Surprised RF got canonized and amused she was found like a pile of trash in some field. What are you doing Brain Drain?!

However, I refuse to welcome Fukua. She must never be canon (diminishes Filia and Samson)
its nice that RF got canonized but whats the problem with fukua being canon?
 
its nice that RF got canonized but whats the problem with fukua being canon?
That's because RF has a canonical form...

Jokes aside, fukua's canon in my heart. Sorry, I meant filia now
 
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Why was this story mode like 3 hours long I swear the other stories were way shorter
 
Why was this story mode like 3 hours long I swear the other stories were way shorter
That's a weird complaint to have when it provides what it's for
 
It does actually have the most fights out of any story mode so far, but I dunno how it measures up with regard to dialogues.

Edit: Most fights except for Fukua's story. My bad.
 
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Annie and Annie's Mom's Renaissance-looking clothing makes me think Annie has lived around 500 years if SG's universe timeline is similar to our universe's timeline (it is said current SG universe is like our 1940s). Easily at least 2 centuries.
Not sure we can start placing down even broad times for when Annie's mom went Skullgirl yet considering the time period that 2E is based on is rather broad. The notable instance of this is the introduction of color TV, which only shows up around the 50's in our world (which Chrono and I had a discussion abt in the Canon Info Thread). This is excluding the arcade in the upcoming Umbrella stage, which might've been removed already depending on how Future Club is designing it.
 
I'm excited for Umbrella's story.
Who knows, what we're about to find out?
The only thing I know for sure, is that there would be a general mistreatment of Adam. As usual.
 
If speculation is allowed in here, I am curious as to why Minette was kidnaped and whether or not Irvin can be trusted and who is the third son of Lorenzo is.
 
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If speculation is allowed in here, I am curious as to why Minette was kidnaped and whether or not Irvin can be trusted and who is the third son of Lorenzo is.
I suppose, it will be a part of her story mode, if she would ever get that sweet DLC spot.
Might be a part of Yu-Wan's story too.
That's the main reason I want them to be playable, 'cos Irvin needs more love.
And the question about the third son might come up with Dahlia or Ottomo. Or in SGM, as they did it with Marcus. Who knows, maybe this son even had ties with the Circus.
Time to remember a theory about Regina actually being Irvin in drag.
 
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If speculation is allowed in here, I am curious as to why Minette was kidnaped and whether or not Irvin can be trusted and who is the third son of Lorenzo is.
I believe it is a set-up for a subplot of a later part of the story i.e. Skullgirls 2. I don't think there is really enough room in Nightmare Legacy in order to resolve the story.

My guess with Minette and the other River King daughters being kidnapped is due to the Medici realising the connection between Ms. Fortune and Minette and the other Little Innsmouth Dagonians, so they are using them as bait in order to lure her in.

I still think Irvin is gonna turn out to be a twist villain. The similarity between him and the third unknown Medici son has been pointed out before and I think it's entirely possible, but I feel like it might just be *too* obvious of a twist. In the artwork for Filia's Origin Story, the picture of Leviathan's previous host is also very similar-looking to Irvin and the third Medici son, so maybe it's just a common generic design.
 

I'm not sure if the guy next to Cerebella's mom was implied to be a previous host to leviathan. Rather, I think he's just sharing the same cell in the design as Lev. I guess we'll see, though.

Also, despite me alluding to it, I'm not even sure if having Irvin be a villain would be likely at this point. At least, I'd feel less confidant about the guy if he didn't show up in Big Band's story. Though, he might be a bit suspicious simply because he wasn't beaten nearly to death like Ben...
 
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I'm not sure if the guy next to Cerebella's mom was implied to be a previous host to leviathan. Maybe, though. But I think he's just sharing the same cell in the design as Lev. I guess we'll see, though.

Hmm. Now that you mention it I guess it doesn't really show Lev embedded in the guy, so maybe they aren't connected. Kind of a weird panel layout if that's the case. Maybe it's meant to be the third Medici son after all.

Also, despite me alluding to it, I'm not even sure if having Irvin be a villain would be likely at this point. At least, I'd feel less confidant about the guy if he didn't show up in Big Band's story. Though, he might be a bit suspicious simply because he wasn't beaten nearly to death like Ben...

Also idk but I feel like Irvin's appearance in Band's story made him even more suspicious. It seemed weird that only Ben turned up to the sting even though both of them knew it was gonna go on. If Irvin was such a close partner to him, I feel like he would have known Ben wouldn't leave it alone and would have come to back him up or at least tried to stop him from going. The way it worked out almost felt like Irvin was even setting up Ben to go by himself.

Could just be overthinking it but the guy doesn't sit right with me.
 
Could just be overthinking it but the guy doesn't sit right with me.
Of course. Just look at Regina's boots. How can he put them on?
There's definitely something strange about him, and I wonder how it will be used later (if it would be used, of course).

Though, he might be a bit suspicious simply because he wasn't beaten nearly to death like Ben...
Maybe he's just a very bad friend?
It's not me, it's "No Encore".

Also idk but I feel like Irvin's appearance in Band's story made him even more suspicious. It seemed weird that only Ben turned up to the sting even though both of them knew it was gonna go on. If Irvin was such a close partner to him, I feel like he would have known Ben wouldn't leave it alone and would have come to back him up or at least tried to stop him from going. The way it worked out almost felt like Irvin was even setting up Ben to go by himself.
Do we really have enough information about the night Ben was mutilated? It would be kind of illogical, if he would be alone on that little "operation". But if I remember that correctly, SGM doesn't tell us, if that was the case. Though it seems that's he's all alone, waiting for the task force to come. Which raises some questions.

Well, we definitely need a sequel and some playable DLC characters to solve this puzzle. Like Regina.
 
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Do we really have enough information about the night Ben was mutilated? It would be kind of illogical, if he would be alone on that little "operation". But if I remember that correctly, SGM doesn't tell us, if that was the case. Though it seems that's he's all alone, waiting for the task force to come. Which raises some questions.
Based on the dialogue it just seemed like he was by himself yeah. If there were other cops there with him it would definitely have been mentioned, especially if Irvin were with him. In any case it would be weird if Ben didn't talk to his partner Irvin about it, so I assume there must have been some off-screen conversation between the time they reported to the Sarge and when Ben turned up at the location.

The other thing that also doesn't sit right with me is why the task force even appeared there in the first place. If they never had any intention to bust the Medici gambling operation, there was never really any reason for them to even show up. The fact that they were even there seemed like it was especially to take care of Ben, but why would they even know that Ben would be there when Sarge told him not to come? Maybe Sarge knew Ben wouldn't leave it alone and made the right guess, or maybe someone that Ben trusted the information with told him?

Well, we definitely need a sequel and some playable DLC characters to solve this puzzle. Like Regina.
Lol one can only hope
 
I guess you could handwave the fact that Irvin wasn't beaten by Ben being the senior officer -- so he's the one that got punished.
Or perhaps Irvin IS Lorenzo's son and that's why he wasn't attacked, even if Irvin himself could be a decent guy.