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Valentine Tech Thread: Small/Big Tips & Strategy YOU Notice?

Colossi said:
About the vial I agree, but for me the animation is pretty much "look at me dancing in your body". I mean, there's no reason to not cancel the animation besides the ones we said and they are pretty much specific.

I generally skip it, but it's a good opportunity to take a deep breath.
 
@Colossi Doing something that's deliberately a taunt and not shortening a cinematic in an attack (where actual damage occurs regardless and the player has to work to get the hit) are two different things. Really Val's lvl3 is the closest SG can get to SF4 Akuma's Raging Demon ultra cinematic, which is actually a few seconds longer than the skip-able part of Val's lvl3. But if you wanna keep going on about this, I suggest creating a separate thread for discussion.

Anyways, here's a thing I posted in a team synergy thread a while back. Probably shoulda posted it here too.
 
Upback j.hk is harder to break than Nelson Mandela.
 
What do you guys do after scoring a ground throw/sliding knockdown?
Okizeme is a term never used in SG due to the scarcity of hard knockdowns and combos ending with a crumple. Also possibly due to the large emphasis of having a reversal dp.

Assuming the oppenent won't mash out, Val has a ground throw that's a perfect set up for loading up a vial and doing whatever you want after.
What I like to do is call HP LnL assist and go for a crossup j.lk. Or if they're likely to mash, I call the assist (to be safe) and activate Val's lvl2 counter.

What I haven't tested in a match is backdash -> jump + j.hp.
Doing this keeps you lower to the ground than regular j.hp, and can be a crossup depending on if you forward jumped or neutral jumped.
Also conserves your air dash. So if blocked, you can j.hp > ADC > crossup j.hp.
 
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After ground throw, I do whatever resets I can do with my remaining undizzy. Too many to list. If I have max undizzy, I go into a burst bait mixup.

After slide knockdown, I attempt vial prep safejump that you can find in my safejump thread but I'll relink


+ call lockdown assist, and once the opponent's respecting it mix it up into empty jump low or empty jump throw.
 
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Any time I land anything anywhere that isn't in the corner my goal is corner carry, I think corner is far more important for Valentine than damage is.

When I get a crumple/slide knockdown in the corner, I meaty them with an assist they can't mash against to force them to guess v. a mixup on wakeup.

Since most people are looking to preemptively pushblock a j.hp to get out of pressure, I find that double jumps, very late j.hps, and super jumps into either a double j.hp or an early adc j.hp all work very well. If they start to figure those out, then empty jumps into a throw or a low get added in.

Another gimmick you can use is intentionally making your j.hp whiff due to wakeup invuln frames instead of meatying them, and then going low or throwing.
 
Fedora_Ninja said:
What I haven't tested in a match is backdash -> jump + j.hp.
Doing this keeps you lower to the ground than regular j.hp, and can be a crossup depending on if you forward jumped or neutral jumped.
Also conserves your air dash. So if blocked, you can j.hp > ADC > crossup j.hp.

 
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s.hp j.lp (wait for enemy restand) j.hp is a nice and easy crossup/reset, too.
 
Fedora_Ninja said:
What I haven't tested in a match is backdash -> jump + j.hp.
Doing this keeps you lower to the ground than regular j.hp, and can be a crossup depending on if you forward jumped or neutral jumped.
Also conserves your air dash. So if blocked, you can j.hp > ADC > crossup j.hp.

Backdash, (9)j.hp, j.hk > low, throw, or ADC > j.whatever works

Midscreen, you can go for a crossup after or instead of the j.hk depending on how tall the character is.
 
Valentine's corner pressure comes from being able to change the timing of her hits at will. Together with a lockdown assist (or anything that keeps them blocking) it is absolute hell to deal with...from duck. Duck is literally the only person I see who does this really well, and I've been slowly incorporating that into my game.

I mentioned this in my training diary and have taken time to test it out, so I think I can mention it as a relative success here. When approaching with j.mp you should hit j.hp after the first or second hit so that it cancels the rest of the move. I thought this would be a sure way to get in on people, but it actually turns out that this is an AMAZING conditioning tool for approaching. You don't use this to get in, you use this to bait them to start pushblocking early and then you stop doing it and get block pressure that ends in a tic throw set up if you let j.mp rip for all the hits. It's really great because this is yet another way for valentine to alter her pressure timings, you can control how many j.mp hits you want. You have a really tight grasp on the opponent's defensive options and it's really great. The only thing you really need to keep track of is their pbgc tendencies, but only 4 people in the world do those so you are basically fine.
 
Even better, condition them to get used to pushblocking all of the j.MP hits, then cancel it to j.HP before they're supposed to pushblock. They hit pushblock without being in blockstun, therefore dash, and you get a free hit, possibly even happy birthday if they're meshing assist.
 
In a decent number of instances it would be worse because good players will naturally wait to pushblock once they see you are using j.mp. And it's a really early tick throw that will catch them off guard more than the full hits if you do it first. I also prefer the faster tempo of cancelling j.mp at the beginning of the match.

Also they won't be mashing a non-invincible assist unless they are god awful.
 
It's very difficult to pushblock j.LP and j.MP on visual confirmation due to how short the blockstun is. People generally confirm the first j.MP hit, then pushblock when they think it will end. It's impractical to react to a fastfall in regards to pushblocking unless it's right after the first j.MP hit. You'll be able to react to it if you're deciding to wait for guaranteed pushblock.

Grounded tick throws won't work consistently since upback avoids it. Upback + assist means punished ground throw attempt.

In regards to getting a happy birthday, you don't get the happy birthday because they mashed a non-invincible assist. When the point is hit before the assist can start up, it lands, plays its exit animation, then leaves. You get a happy birthday because they called the assist and before it could land, you punished their backdash, hitting both characters.
 
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Camail said:
In a decent number of instances it would be worse because good players will naturally wait to pushblock once they see you are using j.mp. And it's a really early tick throw that will catch them off guard more than the full hits if you do it first. I also prefer the faster tempo of cancelling j.mp at the beginning of the match.

Also they won't be mashing a non-invincible assist unless they are god awful.
Not if they go to PBGC they wont, which is a really good idea against a Valentine on top of you with j.MP usually.
 
Camail said:
In a decent number of instances it would be worse because good players will naturally wait to pushblock once they see you are using j.mp. And it's a really early tick throw that will catch them off guard more than the full hits if you do it first. I also prefer the faster tempo of cancelling j.mp at the beginning of the match.

Also they won't be mashing a non-invincible assist unless they are god awful.


Duckator confirmed godawful? Because he calls assist during pressure all the time.
Point being that any one thing isnt god awful or even a bad idea if it CAN work. Its only bad if you are predictable with it or it is just a bad tactic in general. Mashing invulnerable assist during others blockstrings is nowhere near a bad tactic.


Also, smart opponents that pushblock multihits early on accident can just react to their error and change that mistake into a win by using that as a pbgc setup.
I know this because its what i do... Sometimes. Especially if i pushblock to early and i see my opponent also call a lockdown assist such cerecopter/lk bomber/hairball.
 
There are a lot of way to reply to you dime, but I'll pick the one that doesn't get deleted. I said non-invincible assists. You failed to read my post correctly. Please think carefully before you post.

As for the rest of the people rebutting, I still disagree because my experience says otherwise, but I'm in no mood to argue. And Ultimately it kinda doesn't matter as it will depend on the player, which is why I qualified my first response.
 
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Camail said:
There are a lot of way to reply to you dime, but I'll pick the one that doesn't get deleted. I said non-invincible assists. You failed to read my post correctly. Please think carefully before you post.


I deleted nothing, however i did miss where you said non invincible. My bad.
 
Colossi said:
s.hp j.lp (wait for enemy restand) j.hp is a nice and easy crossup/reset, too.
Just ilustrating what I said.
[av]http://a.pomf.se/xsnugw.webm[/av]
 
Val j.mk crossunder
[av]http://a.pomf.se/ppmcgc.webm[/av]
ignore steam sounds

Crossup with LnL (weird timing)
[av]http://a.pomf.se/mgacwm.webm[/av]
I fucked up in the end. Should be s.HK(x3) xx HK Bypass xx EKG, that would deal ~7k damage
 
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max undizzy ips5, after bypass in the corner:

cr.lk, cr.mp, s.hp

the cr.lk looks like a standard vial burst bait so unless they are mashing or reading this burst bait, they won't be bursting there. The entire cr.mp is safe if you delay it a bit after the cr.lk, and the s.hp is safe vs anyone but bigband's massive burst hitbox. It's a 5 hit chain that leaves you at +2 if they don't burst.
 
Is cr.lk vial burst bait safer than s.lk?
 
It doesn't matter, I use cr.lk because its faster. Either way its perfectly safe if you kara s.hp xx vial after the cr.lk. Half the cast lets you bait without the s.hp kara so you can get a follow up after scalpels, but its a burstable knockdown so w/e.
 
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Thanks for the fast reply.
I've done another burst bait that I don't know if it's old, but even if they don't burst it deals ~8k damage if you reset right.
[av]http://a.pomf.se/qqzaye.webm[/av]

Also, just leaving this here for general curiosity.
[av]http://a.pomf.se/qerrci.webm[/av]

EDIT
Ilustrating what @Camail said.
[av]http://a.pomf.se/zjbvtj.webm[/av]
ignore squigly's butt and salty duane on the bottom
 
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You cant use counter on burst, it counts that as a hit and makes the burst safe. Also that video isn't what I said, I said kara cancelling the s.hp, which means you cancel out of the start up frames into the vial. Set it to burst on the first hit then do cr.lk, (kara)s.hp xx vial and it the burst whiffs. On half the cast you can do cr.lk xx vial without the kara, which allows you to follow up with a dash cr.lk, cr.hp for an otg into a full combo.

Ultimately that burst bait kinda sucks though, I prefer this new one I posted earlier but I will probably split it up 50/50 between the two when I feel like doing bypass burst baits.

My best damage off a hp ch combo (which you get off this bait pretty easily) has been 8.7k 1 meter vialless which is really close to killing and any DHC will push it over the edge.
 
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Hey, I'm kinda new here and this really isn't important enough for a new thread, but it kinda fits here? My team is Val and Bb, and I'm having trouble finding a good assist for Val to have. Benny has Giant Step H, and so far I've been using Savage Bypass H, but it hasn't been doing me much good. Can anyone help?
 
Val has really bad assist options, I suggest using cr.mk. It have decent range and gives you a low hitting assist. That's the best she has.
 
HK bypass is actually sorta useful for BB and his rush punches
 
You rush punch and use bypass. It'll bring them back to you. It's similar to Bella's L'n'L.
 
call H savage bypass and use MP Brass Knuckles. Keeps you safe and if it hits, you get a free combo.
As for Big Band's assist, I suggest using LP Beat Extend.
 
oh yea, not sure if I posted here, but I improved the corner burst bait I had before.
[av]http://a.pomf.se/rnhpfn.webm[/av]
The burst is actually really simple. To burst, only do the c.HP xx death cross to avoid getting hit by the burst in the arm. My main purpose was to cancel into Vial like most burst baits, but even pushing you back, still keeps you tall enought to get hit (sometimes), while death cross keeps you lower. Gotta try LK Bypass, but I think the animation is too long to follow up.
 
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Not really a strategy I noticed, but I notice some people using and recommending her cr.mk as an assist. What's the purpose of it, and is it any good?
 
Cr.mk is a pretty "meh" assist but people use it because it's a 2 hit low that can kinda help with pressure plus val has some of the worst assist options in the game so there's not a lot of other options to pick from.
 
Only the first hit is low, just reminding.
 
Her worthwhile assists are: Bypass, cr.mk, Mortuary Drop, shuriken thow, and Anesthesia. Vialing up isn't really worth mentioning unless one is running a three person team. But, even then, just run her always on point.
 
But I've been told that Val was a suitable anchor so she can burn up all the DT meters!
 
Whoever told you that is a terrible person. Val should be on point on every team she is on. She has some the worst defensive options and needs a dp assist to make up for it. Combine that with her terrible assist options and Val turns out to be a really bad anchor but, she is also one of the best point characters due to how easy it is for her to convert random assist hits into full combos.
 
WayForger said:
Her worthwhile assists are: Bypass, cr.mk, Mortuary Drop, shuriken thow, and Anesthesia. Vialing up isn't really worth mentioning unless one is running a three person team. But, even then, just run her always on point.

s.HP is a pretty good assist too, as far as Val assists go. That's the one i use
 
I think Valentine just needs to have a move when she gives the enemy a fatal nosebleed....

because she exposed

HER SWEET BOOTY
 
How are you guys uploading things here? I'm making reset videos right now but they are too large.
 
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