Skullgirls Encore Edition Tiers and Matchups Discussion Thread: The Revengeance

[iPlaySkullgirls]

236 HP+HK

That implies you've hit her, in which case she's probably already screwed.

 

[IsaVulpes]

Reversal potential: (How many reversal options does the character have)

Top: Parasoul

Heimatland

Ease of Damage:(Super subjective)

Top:Bella, Fukua, BB, Eliza, Beowulf
Mid:Peacock, Fortune, Fortune, Painwheel, Filia
Low:Val, Double, Squig

At least you got this one right, Para is so bad at dealing damage that she doesn't even manage to get listed

That implies you've hit her, in which case she's probably already screwed.

Uh

 

[joshb911]

shoot didn't mean to put her there. She was supposed to be mid

 

[Sydoh]

Can you tell me how you managed to get an "Average of Ranks" of 21.5 for Robo Fortune when one can only vote for 1-14?

And why are you taking the R column into consideration for your calculation when it isn't even a real number but just a "it's too early"?

And what is going on in the "Diff." column

All of this looks confusing??

Diff. = Difference, as in the difference between that line and the one above it.

The average of ranks is: Average(X rank votes * Y Rank value). Numbers will be higher the lower ranked the character is.
If I didn't take the "N/A" column as part of the calculation, then those who have N/A votes will have uneven votes with the rest of the characters and can be ranked incorrectly simply because they have less votes.

If robo has 1 vote as #1 in the game and all other votes are for N/A Robo will be ranked #1 in the game regardless of anything if the N/A column isn't taken into account.

 

[IsaVulpes]

The average of ranks is: Average(X rank votes * Y Rank value). Numbers will be higher the lower ranked the character is.

Do you understand that there is NO WAY for the average of "100 people pick a number between 1 and 15" to be 21?

The average for Peacock's ranks is 2.56, not 4.60

Spoiler

1x10 = 10
2x5 = 10
3x7 = 21
4x2 = 8
5x1 = 5
6x0 = 0
7x1 = 7
8x1 = 8

10+10+21+8+5+7+8 = 69
10+5+7+2+1+1+1 = 27

69 / 27 = 2.56

If robo has 1 vote as #1 in the game and all other votes are for N/A Robo will be ranked #1 in the game regardless of anything if the N/A column isn't taken into account.

There are two people total who rate Peacock+Eliza in the bottom half, and both of those are on Rank8. There are 3 people who 'rate' Beowulf as #15 - this alone makes it essentially impossible for him to enter the top ranks, no matter what any other voters say.
If Robo was the clear best character in the game she would have 14 votes for #1 and 12 votes for #15, putting her somewhere in the middle of the cast. Perhaps you can see how this is suboptimal..

Of course "One guy joke-picks #1 and everyone else ticks N/A because it's too early; then Robo is cemented on #1" isn't exactly a great solution either, but perhaps
Perhaps it would be a good idea to just not include a character on which half the voters have no opinion whatsoever (and whose tier placing will change on a weekly basis due to constant Beta changes..)

 

[Dime]

The SDE 1 meter macro catheads double?

That's her. And Like ken, I never used the macro... Ask negus! (And I also didn't spam catheads, the way that duckator did), and I was the only person at that evo using the fastball jhp thing... Which basically gave me free offense against lots of people... But this was also sde where you died from one combo that started from updo... And I didn't use updo... Or pillar! Go figure! What a scrub!

:)

 

[Dhoppler]

Not that I'm tootin' my own horn or anything.

 

[Dime]

Not that I'm tootin' my own horn or anything.

I also lost to negus basically 11-0. Lost to TJ 1-0
Lost to Jem like 4-2 (2-0 of that was him beating me in winners bracket at the top of our pool)
Lost to shin at proof 5-0 then 5-2 then I won 5-3 and then lost again 5-4. This was a couple days before evo and probably the only reason I made it out of pools. This was my first time ever playing offline and it was considerably different for me than playing online.

I lost to peck on beta version 3-0
I lost to wing like 20-1
I lost to mmds 3-0
And I lost to tood 2-0

I was never tooting my own horn or bragging. I know where I stacked up then and though I've gotten MUCH BETTER since then, so has everyone else.

That evo was a big success for me. I had 2 playing partners on bad GGPO skullgirls that lived 2000 miles away from me. I dropped combos all day on ps3s buggy frame rate slowdown and shot myself in the foot by playing on an hdtv instead of on an evo monitor. I learned from my mistakes though and saw how people were playing and I go a hell of a lot better in the extremely short time I was there.


Oh yeah, I lost to duck like 7-1 as well. Really should have been 6-2 had it not been for me dropping like 4 different combos in one game, but I digress. I got out played heavily by basically every forum regular that I played against at evo save for shin.

But it was still a success for me because of everything I learned and the fact that even in all those losses I came away feeling like no one was heavily unbeatable (TJ and wing being the exception to that, both felt like they owned my soul), but I just lacked LOTS of experience and that lack couldn't be made up for in the span of 4 days.



It was really cool playing sg against the best players in the world, as well :)

 

[Mwisk]

1. Fukua
2. Ms Fortune
3.Eliza / Peacock / Bella / Filia
4. Double / Big Band
5. Parasoul / Painwheel / Valentine
6. Squigly

Can't rate Beo or Robo yet. This game doesn't seem to have a tier lower than B IMO.

 

[Sydoh]

Do you understand that there is NO WAY for the average of "100 people pick a number between 1 and 15" to be 21?

The average for Peacock's ranks is 2.56, not 4.60

Spoiler

1x10 = 10
2x5 = 10
3x7 = 21
4x2 = 8
5x1 = 5
6x0 = 0
7x1 = 7
8x1 = 8

10+10+21+8+5+7+8 = 69
10+5+7+2+1+1+1 = 27

69 / 27 = 2.56

Spoiler

10*1 = 10
5*2 = 10
7*3 = 21
2*4 = 8
1*5 = 5
0*6 = 0
1*7 = 7
1*8 = 8
0*9 = 0
0*10 = 0
0*11 = 0
0*12 = 0
0*13 = 0
0*14 = 0
0*15 = 0

Sum = 69
# of ranks = 15

69/15 = 4.6

Either way, it doesn't change the position each character is currently in, but I am not opposed to using total votes instead of total ranks. I just don't see what difference it makes other than keeping the visual value between 1-14.

There are two people total who rate Peacock+Eliza in the bottom half, and both of those are on Rank8. There are 3 people who 'rate' Beowulf as #15 - this alone makes it essentially impossible for him to enter the top ranks, no matter what any other voters say.
If Robo was the clear best character in the game she would have 14 votes for #1 and 12 votes for #15, putting her somewhere in the middle of the cast. Perhaps you can see how this is suboptimal..

Of course "One guy joke-picks #1 and everyone else ticks N/A because it's too early; then Robo is cemented on #1" isn't exactly a great solution either, but perhaps
Perhaps it would be a good idea to just not include a character on which half the voters have no opinion whatsoever (and whose tier placing will change on a weekly basis due to constant Beta changes..)

Well, there's 2 options for this:

1. I redo the vote and remove the N/A option as well as Robo, forcing people to give an actual rank for beo and removing that entire N/A mess. This also means everyone will have to re-vote entirely (I have people's reasoning in case you want to copy/paste it).
   
2. Make the N/A column be a middle value (average of 1-14 = 8) to allow stronger votes to have a greater effect.

 

[IsaVulpes]

I just don't see what difference it makes other than keeping the visual value between 1-14.

It makes us actually able to see the average rather than some imaginary numbers! Right now the column serves little purpose..

Sidenote, it may help to cut out the top and bottom vote from this calculation (or the top and bottom 5% of votes, ..) so a single joker who puts Peacock on #14 doesn't bash her rank in, etc

Well, there's 2 options for this:

Well it is up to you, .. of course there is always the third option that you simply don't care
It is your list and all

Redoing without the N/A Option is the most logical to me, but you run into the danger that people go "First I vote on those 20 Strawpolls, and then I vote in this Surveymonkey thing, and now redo everything again? Fuck that!"
And apparently there ARE quite the people who deem Beo too early to have an opinion on.. shrug

In the end I still feel this is largely pointless.. perhaps funny to see, but that is about it
I really liked the matchup chart project, where people actually talked about matchups and gave reasonings and the likes, rather than just wildly tossing some characters in some order on a whim. flupp

(I have people's reasoning in case you want to copy/paste it).

There was a field where one could post one's reasoning?

 

[Sydoh]

Redoing without the N/A Option is the most logical to me, but you run into the danger that people go "First I vote on those 20 Strawpolls, and then I vote in this Surveymonkey thing, and now redo everything again? Fuck that!"
And apparently there ARE quite the people who deem Beo too early to have an opinion on.. shrug

I agree. I kind of would like to just work with what is there so people don't have to keep re-voting, but ideally, I'd redo it.

I really liked the matchup chart project, where people actually talked about matchups and gave reasonings and the likes, rather than just wildly tossing some characters in some order on a whim. flupp

The thing about the matchup chart is that it was 1v1 for a game with teams, and most people only focused on the point. I think if we were to break down character matchups it'd end up turning into a list because the amount of team combinations is too enormous to put onto one spreadsheet and expect every one of those to get filled in.
Giving reasoning for placement/strength is great and I am all for it, but a matchup chart for everything in SG is a bit much (but don't let me stop you if you want to start it!).

There was a field where one could post one's reasoning?

Yeah, it wasn't there at first, but I added it in later. You can go in and change your vote whenever you want.

 

[Dime]

Perhaps it's just me, but I like worldjems idea about tiering for teams and not solos.

And though this may be impossible to come up with a consensus for quickly, perhaps we should first focus on where a characters best position is. I mean voting for a character on teams but not specifying where on said teams the character would be.. Seems kinda weird to me.

Not necessarily saying that it should be used, but at least a general idea of what we are voting on would be cool.



Off the top of my head I will just do my list based on trio. In any trio you can take the point and anchor and just put them together on a duo and omit the second... Anyways this is how I see it currently:


Point:

Fortune, peacock,Val,Beowulf,Fukua,parasoul

Second:

Squigly, painwheel, robo fortune,filia,Eliza

Anchor:

Bella, big band, double




Is how I see it as their best positions. That of course doesn't mean it to say that said characters can't be played in other positions, just what their likely best position is in my eyes.

Anything out of wack with the list I proposed?

 

[RemiKz]

Out of curiosity, why would you put robo at second?

 

[IsaVulpes]

She needs meter for stuff so point isn't optimal, and she has the by far worst defence in the cast so third isn't very good either?

 

[Dime]

Out of curiosity, why would you put robo at second?

Basically what isavulpes said plus these things:


Her assist is really good so having access to it is a good thing.
her super is a great instant dhc for punishing stuff ala hailstorm dhc, and it's a beam so it's compatible with many supers in the game, but since it's a beam there are a lot of supers in the game that won't dhc FROM it that well since they might be outside the range.
She's looking like a really fucking terrible matchup against BB and so putting her more towards the back end of a team where she's more likely to face an anchor BB is stronger than having her on point where she will much more rarely see that matchup.


And as far as anchor goes:

She doesn't seem to have great meter dumps or high damage, or a great ability to open the opponent up. She's got her level 3 which is basic and pretty much the same as the rest of the cast except afaik she can't easily combo off of it unlike Bella, and BB and even double.

BB for instance will have access to a couple of ridiculous meter dump combos that can either win him games, or put him back into the race to pull a comeback out:

H brass or a train xx ssj, then h step xx ssj or level 3

Or he can brass/ a train xx level 3 then brass oth xx ssj.


Those meter dump combos win games cause of all the damage they can do and the positions they can do them from (h a train grabs jumps near fullscreen, h brass blows through any anticipated poke) and on top of that, he has SSj dhc, SSJ pbgc reversal, alpha counter into L extend into full combo against blocked jump attacks, and le extend assist in general.


Robo lacks much of that kind of power, so anchor doesn't seem exceptionally suited for her. She lacks high damage, good mixups, good approaches, good defense and good meter dump.

So I basically have her at second because she still seems sorely lackluster in the other 2 positions so far, and second actually benefits some of her strengths.


Well, that's how I see it anyways. I didn't put to much thought into her placement. It just felt right in my mind for her to be second, because reasons.

 

[cloudKing211]

Keep in mind that running Robo on point, and building a team to suit runaway and chip damage can be pretty powerful. Close-to-ground Air hlaser+assist then ground H laser does really good chip, can push them far away on block, and even further on hit. If an assist is out, the laser is a multi hit (most likely stopping any assist as it comes out, and will be kept on screen and keep taking damage that the point has little to no way to stop. Zoning with robo is pretty good right now if your on point and manage the opponents options properly.

Edit: Copter + H Bomber are really good for this purpose, while still allowing ease of confirm and damage output in a rushdown situation

 

[Dhoppler]

Wait, BB is a bad match up for Robo?

I don't see it.

Edit: I misread that.

 

[Sydoh]

I think every character should be rated in every aspect and every position, not just what they're best at.

Just because a character is a good X position doesn't mean you can't bring them out of their element or otherwise mess up a team order with a snap.

 

[dead]

There's no way that peacock isn't S tier all she has to do is get a brass knuckles assist to hide behind, and any stray hit puts you back at full screen, she doesn't even need meter to do it. Even if you do catch up she just teleports away and you have to start all over again. Even if you manage to get a hit in you're still going to get tagged with one of the insane number of projectiles on the screen. She has the lowest risk game plan out of any character. Who needs meter management when you have argus agony? It doesn't even need to hit you can kill them with chip damage and kill their assist all at the same time.

Oh while I'm at it there doesn't seem to be a single reason to play anything but doubles on a team. You never need more than one good assist so why sacrifice the damage? Trips don't do anything that duos can do better. You don't even get the benefit of resetting the neutral when your character dies because your opponent gets the incoming unblockable shenanigans mixup.

so yeah heres my tier list
peacock>every other character
Duo>Trips>Single

 

[Sydoh]

Current list with 36 votes.
I changed the way the rank is calculated so that the N/A votes scale based on what their rank would be if the N/A column didn't exist.

1. Peacock
   
2. Eliza
   
3. Cerebella
   
4. Filia
   
5. Fukua +2
   
6. Parasoul
   
7. Valentine -2
   
8. Ms. Fortune
   
9. Beowulf
   
10. Painwheel
    
11. Big Band
    
12. Robo-Fortune +1
    
13. Squigly -1
    
14. Double

Here are the reasonings behind some of the votes (most people didn't give reasonings because that option wasn't available at first):

Spoiler: Person 1

Peacock 1
Fukua 2
Ms. Fortune 3
Valentine 4
Filia 5
Eliza 6
Cerebella 7
Double 8
Parasoul 9
Painwheel 10
Beowulf 11
Big Band 12
Squigly 13
Robo-Fortune N/A

Squigly is definatly the worst character. Worst normals compared to the entire cast. Worst back dash, Worst tag. High risk for little reward. Worst mobility. Meter intensive for no damage gained for using meter and doesn't build meter easily unlike peacock who gets meter for breathing. Low damage, no damage from resets. Worst resets that are slow and very obvious. Worst reversal options so she can't get out of pressure. Non existent anti airs in a game where every one approaches from the air. She's cute and has interesting mechanic ideas but she simply can't compete effectively with the rest of the cast. Every win she gets is off of a series of hard reads and the rest of the cast can basically do what ever hand steamroll all over squigly. There is never a point where any other chracter has to be afraid of squigly, she is never a threat and what ever hit she does get will deal no damage. The squigly player will have to reset so many times that the opponent can just mash out whenever and then go on the offensive and kill squigly because she has no reversal options. Squigly can't be offensive because all her approaches are easily dealt with by every character. Every character can approach squigly however they want and squigly will have nothing to stop their approach and even if she does it will be something that's hard to do and have difficult timing. Even then the punish won't be damaging enough to dissuade the attacker. There is simply no reason to play squigly especially in a competitive setting. You are using a set optimal difficult to operate tools.

Spoiler: Person 2

Peacock 1
Eliza 2
Cerebella 3
Filia 4
Ms. Fortune 5
Valentine 6
Fukua 7
Parasoul 8
Painwheel 9
Big Band 10
Double 11
Squigly 12
Beowulf 13
Robo-Fortune 14

Top 3 are what I believe need to be looked at and are very strong. 4-9 are more or less interchangeable I feel they are the most fair and not too dumb. 10-12 are not exactly the worst but I feel they require more effort to use effectively. Beowulf and Robo are still too new.

Spoiler: Person 3

Eliza 1
Peacock 2
Beowulf 3
Squigly 4
Big Band 5
Ms. Fortune 6
Cerebella 7
Painwheel 8
Valentine 9
Parasoul 10
Fukua 11
Filia 12
Double 13
Robo-Fortune 14

--- Top 3 ("A+") is Eliza, Peacock, Beowulf
- They all dominate neutral completely, while sporting various other insane bonuses (Eliza Sekh, Peacock wins neutral while staying entirely safe, Beo has a complete toolbox)
- I put Beo 3rd cus least explored and Eliza 1st because she beats Peacock, but this could go in any order p.much
--- Next 4 ("A") are Squig, Band, Fortune, Bella
- Squig is of similar strength as the Top3 in that she utterly dominates neutral (via Sing SBO, jHP SBO, uncrossunderable Divekick, cMK, cHP, etc) but unlike the first three she needs resources to do so (Getting charge is no problem, but SBO does cost meter) which puts her below them
- Band is a "good enough" character who will get wins vs everyone even in the hands of a shit player, while still being utterly unexplored (nobody uses Parry, nobody really runs Band+slow Projectile which makes all his shit safe), as well as having access to the two strongest assists in the game and thus being invaluable for any team
- Fortune is this high up due to having access to Headless, which invalidates half the cast. Headon is weaker than Filia, if alone due to the shitty team support she provides
- Bella dropped down bigtime, as Reflect and MGR nerfs hurt in a lot of places. Still a good character with invaluable team support, but a lot less threatening in neutral now. Needs the opponent cornered too badly.
--- Lower Middle 3 ("B") are PW, Val, Soul
- These can go in any order p.much. All characters with strong neutral, but one or more shortcomings which keeps them from climbing higher. PW is sluggish, Val has problems vs patient players, Soul cant zone half the cast, etc
--- Bottom 3 ("B-") is Fuk, Fil, Double
- Fukua has good buttons but no real way to hit people who are content with blocking, Filia is a good 2nd where she provides Updo and can come in via Gregor/Tags but her neutral is too ass and Ringlet alone doesn't save it, Double can't really hit people from what I'm seeing and Luger is annoying but that's about it
--- Why? ("C-") is Robotune
- Borderline unplayable at the time of writing; has no good button, no mixups, can't convert her zoning into damage, worst defence in the game by miles, etc
Was busted with the IAD and lack of hurtboxes, but now with iad gone and hurtboxes EVERYWHERE she got zero redeeming features
.. aside from, of course, being wholly unfinished and thus likely getting buffed tremendously over the course of the next weeks

There you go, the definite threat list (which noone will agree with, cus "wawa squigly sucks" blabla)

Spoiler: Person 4

Eliza 1
Peacock 2
Filia 3
Cerebella 4
Valentine 5
Fukua 6
Squigly 7
Big Band 8
Beowulf 9
Ms. Fortune 10
Painwheel 11
Parasoul 12
Double 13
Robo-Fortune N/A

Top 5- Characters good for any situation/ability to be placed on every time/overall good matchups in a 1 v 1 situation

6-10: This is where i feel where picking a character here locks you to a playstyle or in some 1v1 situations can have more bad matchups than the rest. Alot of people would give me shit for saying fukua not in the top 5 but i consider exactly number 6 because some matchups go way out of hand after the first hit (try fukua vs eliza) and fukua's lack of reversal makes it so she cant fully tango the entire cast without supplementing assists.

Robofortune is impossible to tell, so NA for beep boop meow

Spoiler: Person 5

Valentine 1
Peacock 2
Eliza 3
Filia 4
Ms. Fortune 5
Cerebella 6
Parasoul 7
Painwheel 8
Beowulf 9
Fukua 10
Squigly 11
Big Band 12
Double 13
Robo-Fortune N/A

Based primarily on how well they do in neutral or how difficult it is to stop said characters from setting the pace of the match the way they want it to go.

Spoiler: Person 6

Peacock 1
Eliza 2
Fukua 3
Cerebella 4
Parasoul 5
Painwheel 6
Filia 7
Ms. Fortune 8
Big Band 9
Beowulf 10
Valentine 11
Squigly 12
Double 13
Robo-Fortune N/A

The top 3 and bottom 2 are easy everything else in between is a toss up.

Click the links in my sig to vote and view the results.

 

[Mr Peck]

Squigly is definatly the worst character. Worst normals compared to the entire cast. Worst back dash, Worst tag. High risk for little reward. Worst mobility. Meter intensive for no damage gained for using meter and doesn't build meter easily unlike peacock who gets meter for breathing. Low damage, no damage from resets. Worst resets that are slow and very obvious. Worst reversal options so she can't get out of pressure. Non existent anti airs in a game where every one approaches from the air. She's cute and has interesting mechanic ideas but she simply can't compete effectively with the rest of the cast. Every win she gets is off of a series of hard reads and the rest of the cast can basically do what ever hand steamroll all over squigly. There is never a point where any other chracter has to be afraid of squigly, she is never a threat and what ever hit she does get will deal no damage. The squigly player will have to reset so many times that the opponent can just mash out whenever and then go on the offensive and kill squigly because she has no reversal options. Squigly can't be offensive because all her approaches are easily dealt with by every character. Every character can approach squigly however they want and squigly will have nothing to stop their approach and even if she does it will be something that's hard to do and have difficult timing. Even then the punish won't be damaging enough to dissuade the attacker. There is simply no reason to play squigly especially in a competitive setting. You are using a set optimal difficult to operate tools.

This might be my single favourite Skullheart post ever

(I don't agree with it at all, in case that isn't clear)

 

[Dio Brando]

Is Squigly's damage really that bad? Damn......

 

[Dime]

On second thought, having posts that are anonymous, has been a good thing by far. Just people's opinions and since you don't know who they are they are huh are to argue with.

I like reading people's reasoning for their choices even if I don't agree with them.

 

[Sydoh]

You can update your vote at any time and include a reasoning in case you didn't include one before.

Those I listed are pretty much the only ones who have added a meaningful blurb of text.

 

[majorgalaxy]

Is Squigly's damage really that bad? Damn......

No it's not.

It's actually easy to get considerable to big damage with Squigly if you know how to optimize your combos with her.

 

[alexpi]

Define "big damage".

I mean, she's better than Parasoul, but chargeless you're only looking at 7-ish k. With charge, you get, I think, 8.2 mid screen.

Besides, Squigly doesn't give 2 shits about damage. She puts you in the blender.

 

[majorgalaxy]

Define "big damage".

I mean, she's better than Parasoul, but chargeless you're only looking at 7-ish k. With charge, you get, I think, 8.2 mid screen.

Besides, Squigly doesn't give 2 shits about damage. She puts you in the blender.

7k is actually what I call big since in 1:1 match you're taking off half the opponents life at that point with 5k being considerable.

But yeah I wouldnt say her real damage comes from her mix ups and resets but you definetly can take off big chunks of health.

 

[alexpi]

Everyone can get 7k with 1 meter.

 

[majorgalaxy]

Still big by my book

 

[Dio Brando]

Everyone can get 7k with 1 meter.

And here i am stuck at 5900 with Squigs, the struggle is real.

 

[cloudKing211]

ground chain - stancel - ground chain - silver chord- Daisy Pusher- s.hk j.hk hk falling woman- rejump j.lp j.mk j.hk mk falling woman - cr.lp/lk ground chain dragon bite does about 8.2k I believe

 

[iLoli]

Big damage is relative to the game, to me in this game big damage is about 10k with 1 bar.

 

[Dime]

Yeah. For me, big damage is 8k midscreen and 10k corner.

Respectable is 7-7.5k midscreen, below average is below 7k. Above average is above 7.5k but less than 8k.


Assuming 1.0 ratios of course.

 

[akindhobo]

ground chain - stancel - ground chain - silver chord- Daisy Pusher- s.hk j.hk hk falling woman- rejump j.lp j.mk j.hk mk falling woman - cr.lp/lk ground chain dragon bite does about 8.2k I believe

Nope, chargeless dnb does 7.4k, charged dnb does 7.7k. not to mention hk dive kick messes up you positions and keeps you midscreen most of the time.

 

[cloudKing211]

Doing this exact combo, I get 8198 in 1.0 scaling. That is a yes

Edit: does 7.9k without punch charge, so i dont know what ground chains you were doing

 

[cloudKing211]

cr.lk cr.mk s.hp x2 stancel cr.mk s.hp x2 silver chord Daisy Pusher s.hk j.hk hk falling woman j.lp j.mk j.hk mk falling woman cr.lk cr.mk s.hp x2 dnb charged

 

[iLoli]

Worldjem post mine, I want people to tear it to shreds, it starts with something like "neutral".

Also my Squigly combo gets 7.5 without meter and like 8.1 with meter at the end of the combo in 3v3 and I'm pretty sure I'm not optimized because I don't optimize shit.

Yeah, that has to be unoptomized because my Parasoul bnb does more, or the guy saying her damage is better than Parasoul is incorrect, I'm betting more on my bad combo, though.

 

[Midiman]

Tier threads.

Big Damage, IMO, is 15.5/2 (7.75) because that's half your lifebar. Do not forget about concepts like advantage, okizemi/wake-up, assists, setups, resets, positioning: those are the key useful things that can land you more damage.

Damage is important and the most reliable thing overall, but ways to set it up so that you can get more damage, especially in Skullgirls, can be valuable and worth caring about

*sits alone with his poor combos* yep

 

[Cadenza]

goddamn the sarcastic comments is insane.

the point midiman was trying to make is that the character's TOOLS should be taken into consideration. Please?