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diario de dMags

just wanna write this down before I forget:

played a Danisen match against kstacks last night, and one thing he kept doing to me that was giving me tons of trouble, like he hit me 200% of the time he did this setup:

point painwheel w/ Filia French Twist ( cr.mk ) assist: Basically do a ground burst bait with painwheel, and charge hp after the red/green sparks to absorb the burst keeping painwheel in your face -> then you fly + call french twist assist, so painwheel gets a really really hard to block high + low setup using j.hk plus the french twist assist. Depending on the timing you can either hit high or low first.

I haven't really seen this yet, so I didn't really know what to do other than just try to block ( which I failed at ), so thinking about it a bit more I think my options to avoid this setup would be:

1. don't burst if I see it coming, hopefully that at least screws up the timing and makes it easier to block or allows me to react before the assist call
2. depending on my character, I can try and mash super
3. alpha counter the burst, again this is character specific but if I alpha countered to BB and then did SSJ it would win

Otherwise, I need to make better use of L Napalm Shot assist, I use it in neutral in matches which is fine, and I practice resets with it in TM but always forget to use them in matches, so I need to start forcing myself to do this. There's a lot more mileage I can get out of the assist than I do currently.
 
That setup hits me all the time too fwiw. I wouldn't recommend mashing super, the armor on Painwheel's j.HP will absorb it. Also it's not a true burst bait, if a burst hits armor you can block after you burst, so that's something to keep in mind (not sure if you already knew that but you didn't mention it so I just thought I'd point it out). Delaying your burst might help since it would blow away the assist character but I haven't tried that myself.
 
I'll try and play around with it tonight, the problem I had with it is either blocking high then getting hit low by the assist, or vice versa. I guess this would be an excellent time to practice absolute guard.

And yes I know it's not a true burst bait ;) but thank you for the input I appreciate it. it's not that I'm getting CH punished for bursting, but rather he gets a really sick setup off of it because the timing is consistent.

also wanna try - #4 raw tagging out -> if painwheel does j.hp then yes i'm prob screwed in most cases, but he uses j.hk it may beat it.
 
Basically anything character + French assist is hard to deal with. PW in particular has access to j.hk which is already ridiculous to deal on it's own so add in an ambiguous high low setup and your in trouble 0.0

My suggestions for dealing with French twist is to snap out PW as soon as you get a combo started because if it's just PW/ Filia : I find Filia a lot easier to deal with with a PW assist then PW with a Filia assist. But that might just be me....
 
joshb911 said:
My suggestions for dealing with French twist is to snap out PW as soon as you get a combo started because if it's just PW/ Filia : I find Filia a lot easier to deal with with a PW assist then PW with a Filia assist. But that might just be me....

That's not a bad idea either, avoid the situation all together, thanks!
 
Oh shoot so comments on your strategy for dealing with this setup:
1. Do not alpha counter with your PW... Parasoul is going to get rekt by the setup considering you run shot (only do this with Parasoul into BB BE)
2. Mashing super may or may not work for this case (unless of course your BB then HOOOOOOOO HORN CRUSH erey day I guess)
3. I don't know how exactly the burst works but from what I know about french twist not bursting might be a bad idea considering PW can fly cancel and reset you so alpha counter super might be your best option in some cases

Other suggestions:
1. Run a multi hitting assist to alpha counter with (For you Eliza's cr.mk, that stupid stationary tatsumaki, or better yet grab 0.0)
2. Avoid getting bullied by French twist (When someone is running this assist I would constantly be throwing out cr. lk to try to stuff her)

I hope this helps :^)
 
joshb911 said:
Oh shoot so comments on your strategy for dealing with this setup:
1. Do not alpha counter with your PW... Parasoul is going to get rekt by the setup considering you run shot (only do this with Parasoul into BB BE)

you can alpha counter into either character depending on which tag you hit. I would never alpha counter into Parasoul unless I used Napalm Pillar assist considering Big Band is almost always the better choice for my team composition.

I gotta play with it tonight, so I'll see what works. It seems like depending on what painwheel does after the absorb burst, fly + call assist, then either j.hk, j.hp, or flies away to bait a reversal... she may always be 1 step ahead of you.
 
Focus on BETTER practice, making the most of the time I actually play the game. I wrote down some notes this past weekend that I've kept in front of me while playing, and it's been super helpful in remembering to do things in matches, but also to break things down into smaller goals and to help me focus on certain aspects of the game that I always forget about until it's too late.

I'm hoping to start a better practice regime, more effective practice, so I'm planning on bringing notes with me to GU now and taking notes while I play.
 
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writing this down before I forget, since i'm at work, I don't think anybody will understand me cuz this is super secret cryptic tech:

- practice combo xx tag to PW xx "tear + throw" reset ; I think this will only work if the order goes "do a combo as BB, tag to painwheel/do my reset", tagging from PS to PW might not work, or will only work in certain places on the screen due to parasoul's tag out.
 
scratch that, doesn't work like I was hoping. my reset is still good, but i need to find better setups/situations for it.

the setup here was to tag into painwheel mid combo, then call parasoul and do the thing, but the whole 'tagging + assist call' doesn't work like I was hoping it would. I learned some stuff though, so that's good. I had found out a while back that with a 3 character team, you can DHC while you have assist2 out on screen. not that I think it comes into play too often, but it's another option that 3 char teams have over the other two sizes. anyway, i just happened to remember that tidbit today, so i was thinking/hoping that after tagging a new character, you could then call the remaining assist while the ex-point gets off screen. It doesn't work like that however, instead assists are totally locked out during tag animations, which means DHC's work independently of the assist lock out.

Nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg
 
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tried playing a bit recently without any game sounds, just background music. damn god damn the game feels so different, really made me realize how much I rely on audio cues ( not even in combos, but in neutral/reacting to my opponent ). I'm getting the hang of it though, and it definitely requires me to focus more. it's a nice change of pace though, I think it's good practice to get comfortable playing under different conditions.
 
Yeah you don't really notice how much you need the audio cues until you suddenly don't have them anymore. It took a while for me to get used to it. I think it's good to practice like that though cause at tournaments you usually can't hear a goddam thing.
 
when I was playing Street Fighter regularly, I would play with the background music turned off. It really really slows down the overall feel of the game.
 
played good sets last night against Deer and JoshBNine1One, I gotta rewatch the beta replays tonight, but since I'm at work now (aka thinkin about skullgirls) I figured I'd jot down some glaring things I can recall:

reacting to alpha counters - both of them were doing AC into French Twist, I got hit a bunch cuz I was unsure of what to do, but I think I can reaction super as long as I'm not parasoul? maybe if I have charge I can just napalm pillar with her though? I gotta figure out how to reproduce this in training mode and mess with it. I don't know enough about alpha counters

pushblocking - this is a matter of experience/practice, but I try to pushblock too late sometimes and either get a poorly timed mp/hp or a backdash. this usually happens when I try to pushblock against a light attack, so I gotta be a little more aware as to the attack im trying to pushblock against since the pushblock window depends upon the blockstun ( right? )

offensive resets - I keep forgetting to try different resets and bursts I try in training mode. Against Josh, I kept going for air-grab resets, which he teched like every single time, which should have told me he's mashing throw but this didn't click in my head until after the fact...should have gone for burst baits but I didn't...stupid on my part to not adjust to it

otherwise, I feel like my neutral has improved a lot. also parasoul is my worst character by far, might need to play her on point/solo for a bit.
 
You can indeed super on reaction to alpha counters* I don't know if Parasoul has that option though because as you say her supers are not great for that. Napalm Pillar would work if you're holding a charge. In general though you may need better blockstrings for Parasoul. If you do blockstrings like c.LK c.MK s.HPx2 xx Napalm Shot, that's pretty easy to PBGC or alpha counter or even just reversal since it's not a true blockstring. Try just c.LK c.MK maybe.

*unless they do alpha counter then immediately super cancel to a super with hitstop (this is really good with Big Band incidentally).
 
mcpeanuts said:
In general though you may need better blockstrings for Parasoul. If you do blockstrings like c.LK c.MK s.HPx2 xx Napalm Shot, that's pretty easy to PBGC or alpha counter or even just reversal since it's not a true blockstring.

I'm glad you mention this specifically, it's a bad habit I do all the time that I've realized lately. I'd also like to mess with her Egret Cancel on blockstrings, at least in training mode to see if its useful
 
Parasoul needs to vary her strings a lot to keep from getting predictively punished with push blocks. It's still often worth throwing out "stuff" into lp Shot since it's so plus on block, but you need lots of frame traps. I've been watching poccola's stuff to steal all the good parasoul traps.
 
I wasn't mashing grab.... I was watching your sequence of resets and saw when you delayed the jump with parasoul and painwheel and BB you were going for air grab. The burst bait wouldn't have worked I wasn't mashing lol. Also if you mash on reaction to french twist I'm gonna use BFF to punish anything you do so that might work like once.
And I would say your BB is your worst character. It might just be the matchup but you seemed to be susceptible to my Fukua corner pressure with BB mash out SSJ like every other BB lol.
Also why did you spell my name like that lol it's joshb911. I also started realizing that you go for grab resets all the time so my answer was raw gregor which worked 5/8 times. These are just my observations.
 
1. I still shoulda gone for burst bait, that would at least give me more info about what you're doing
2. if I do DeathCrawl or SSJ on reaction to your Alpha Counter, can you counter with BFF? I honestly don't know, like I said I don't know much about AC
3. I mean I suck against corner pressure with all my characters, I just have the hardest time in neutral with parasoul and I drop her combos all the time or go down the wrong combo route. I'm the least confident with her
4. its my training diary, I can spell names however the f u c k I want Jawwwsh
5. i don't go for grab resets all the time, did you really raw gregor 8 times? i can recall it happening like...3 times, i gotta watch the replays
 
I went for it but got hit out of it.
You right you can spell my name that way if you wish ;_;
And I'll test the BFF right now and tell you
 
joshb911 said:
And I'll test the BFF right now and tell you
i'm curious to know how you test this, as far as I know Alpha Counter scenarios can be really hard to reproduce in training mode.
 
So this is what I did I made the dummy do cr.mp with PW (1 hit so I could alpha but just long enough for it to be a reaction) and went to DC. What I found is that BFF beats it if I mash on it. And Updo into Gregor beats it. So in conclusion DC does not work lol. SSJ will probally work against gregor though and bikes will lose to BFF and Fenerir
 
so after the Super Flash for Death Crawl, you were able to get a BFF out?
 
not after I had to literally AC on reaction from the first hit then BFF. Basically even if you use cr.mp (1 hit) and go right into DC you can't beat BFF
 
okay yea I don't know why I was even asking, peanuts already explained it, thanks for the input though
 
I should start playing seriously again, the monthly at GU this past weekend was a lotta fun and re-sparked my interest in getting better. In the interest of giving myself small goals to work towards, I think my immediate focus will be:

-- practice switching up blockstrings and ways to maintain pressure. I'm finding that with Painwheel, my approaches are getting stale and my blockstrings are bad and lose to pushblock constantly.

Otherwise, I think I've pretty much lost interest in playing Parasoul on my main team, I'll still dabble with her to try and get better but it won't be a main concern. I'm 99.79% sure that Robo-Fortune will be taking her spot, as I'm having a blast playing her and I think that Robo-Fortune's cr.mk assist will be awesome for mix-ups and pretty good as a neutral assist given the amount of time and distance it covers on-screen ( plus it's a sweep that can combo ).

@dekillsage @WarpedEcho - I think it was you two that I was talking to at GU about robo-fortune, and I said that her QCB+MK landmines would break armor...so they don't currently, but I was referring to this comment -> http://skullheart.com/index.php?threads/robo-fortune-beta-combo-thread.6797/page-4#post-264965 followed by Mike Z's response. So I think they will at some point?
 
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some teams i'm messing around with:

1. painwheel ( H pinion ) - Robo ( cr.mk ) - BB ( L BE )
2. robo ( cr.mk ) - painwheel ( H pinion ) - BB ( L BE )
3. robo ( cr.mk ) - parasoul ( Napalm Pillar ) - BB ( H Brass )
4. robo ( H beam ) - BB ( H brass )

i'm not too concerned about which team is "best" or which assists would be best, just trying a bunch of different things and seeing what I find to be the most fun to play.

Robo-fortune is a lot of fun, but I'm having trouble "putting it all together". it seems like getting stray hits is pretty easy, but getting really solid damage off of it is a challenge. my overall goal with her has mostly been creating opportunities to push out heads, and then dumping them all with H head launch ( salvo ). I think thats okay for some knockdown setups, but I should make more use of the L and M head launches since it doesnt use all your heads. One thing I need to keep in mind is after backing myself in the corner, try to escape with j9.hk. Also I should use Magnet Super more often to convert off of Brass assist.

@fenster - If you have a chance, I'm curious to hear your overall opinions on robo. How you feel she should be played, strengths, weaknesses, etc...

Last thing I'm curious about, find uses for L Danger! M Danger is throw invul, so it can be used as a reversal if you predict a throw, and H Danger is good for combos since you get a red bounce + double snaps.
 
wait fenster is playing with robo kitty now? hmmm i wonder if he's been stealing my stuff... but with the dangers lk and hk are best for doing corner combos. i mean, the hk version is best for combo enders... the lk could be an anti air but... you can't really play off of them unless you use meter or a specific assist. idk. the teams you have right now are good.
 
I believe he's been dabbling with her, I've been told and seen it mentioned a few times to ask him for advice, so we'll see what the man himself says when he appears :)
 
Oh, I'm far from any expert from her right now since I'm still learning myself as much as everyone else, but I'm always down to talk about her cause she's super fun imo. I don't know what to go into but for general obvious stuff?


L Danger is actually my favorite danger in neutral. It's sort of a "get off me tool" in that it will create space and the upper body invul makes it harder to hit from aerial approaches. They so far from what I've tried is getting into the right space for it, since rarely you can just try to throw it out itself and have them fall into it. cMK xx L danger, or slightly riskier sHP xx L danger seem to work for me to get the opponent close enough into the danger, and if you do it when the opponent is cornered, you can even convert. Basically, if you think the opponent is closing in on you, its one of several tools/methods you'll have to get used to to keep opponents away.

Random note, but when you use sHP for defense more, and you aren't doing it + assist (which you should be doing that too probably), sHP xx L/M Laser as a block confirm is usually okay if they are far away, and sHP xx H danger as a hit confirm can work on hit if they are far away.

The mindset I have with robo atm is how I look at Dhalism in SF4, though the tools and ways in which they work are different that makes the comparison look weird at first. You have pretty good tools that poke the opponent for small damage from extreme ranges that most can't do anything about, but you have to make committed guesses and the reward for each will be much smaller then opponent getting in their 1 hit and conversion. She CAN have good and tricky resets with certain assists, but by herself she won't have the trickiest tools and not great reward.

As everyone says, obviously her weaknesses are in her defense tools not being as good as other characters, so you'll always have to work harder on defense and be alright with that as a player. Her strengths are also obv on her good zoning tools, tiny hurtboxes everywhere which make her hard to hit in a lot of scenarios, and her great dashes which are a bit unappreciated I think atm. She's the kind of character that's gonna be hard to get really good with, esp early on now since not a lot of us are sure how to play her, but I'm definitely on the side that she's for sure a capable character (on top of just being fun, IMO).

From what you said, I think you sort of have a good general gameplan and maybe just need to get in the time with her to learn how to use each tool and how to adapt to opponents with her. On the heads, Hidden missiles is obv good and easy to use when level 3, but the other tools are useful too. Headrone is generally good to cover yourself if you want to dash in, and probably works well to zone out certain character approaches too (though I can't say for certain on that just yet). Mines are great esp against bella and big band, and the recent buff makes them easier to use imo; set up one mine to create the space against the opponent to get through, and if you don't want to commit to assists or a laser, just call more heads and build yourself up while giving time to think.

After that, I dunno what else I can give you for general overview, unless you had some specific questions on specific MUs, cause I have been thinking a lot lately about the best zoning approach against each character.

Also I can't say I've stolen that much stuff from others atm, aside from doing upback jHP + l Air laser which Woofly did a bunch and from what I've used seems pretty good when they close in.
 
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aw... was hoping some one was going to take something from my bot videos. ahem anyways, Does anyone anywhere have any real good use for her lk head call? the start up of it is so long that it doing it off of a hard knock down gives robo fortune barely enough time to do a cross up. and if done at full screen she can't dash past it. so it can only give her a chance at doing a mid/ low mixup or a mid to grab. The mines are fine at neutral and the missiles can kinda control the ground if the opponent is trying to back off and zone you. But i would only use lvl 2 or 3 missiles lvl 1 is just complete junk.
 
L Danger is a quite usable AntiAir
M Danger isn't very good.. yeah it's Throw Invuln, but if you read a throw you can just jump?!

She should be played by annoying the opponent with Beams until he moves in a predictable pattern,
then quickly switching it up and eg catching a jumpblock via her quick dashjump airthrow.
Alternate option when you read that the opponent will sit still for a moment (due to being scared of Beam) is getting heads out

Her strengths are Beam assist, hitting people at ranges where no other character can really hit, and strong mobility options to get into the spots she wants to be

Her weaknesses are the far worst defence in the cast, zoning tools which can't be used offensively, and that she is very hard for questionable reward

Head usage is for me (on average, of course some of them will be stronger/weaker depending on circumstances) like,
Lvl2 Missiles > Kamikaze > Mine = Lvl3 Missiles? Never use Lvl1 Missile, I'd rather Taunt

---

I sent this to some ppl, I may as well paste it here:

In case you are looking for more Robo ideas,

Here are some things which I did a lot that I don't see other people do a lot (obv I dunno if you do any of this since I haven't seen you play, but yeah):
- jLK (seriously, it's by far her best air button imo)
- jump, falling laser right before hitting the ground to get massive frame advantage
- sHK everywhere
- sHP in robo mirror to absorb beams xx own beam
- random Beam super as a read
- Beam xx Beam Super in neutral (opponents quickly get automatic muscle memory of "move forward after having blocked/been hit by a beam", this shuts that down very well)
- cMK a lot in neutral, conversion with sHK magnet
- jHP laser rather than just jHP or just laser, to cover a plethora more space
- random controlled jHK to see what the opponent is doing and then either copter backwards, or m./h.beam, copter upwards l.beam dj something, or w/e
- dashunder cHK when people try sj approaches or the likes
- or in general just dashing under people that are jump happy; far less commital than the sj jHK stuff and generally there are spots to do it
- hidden missiles specifically on 2 heads, where i feel the cost/reward works out best
- dashjump jMK jHK vs standing opponents, who block the jMK and then get crossed up by the jHK

things I considered, but never really added to my own play - and where I thus don't know how well they work (or if at all):
- jMP fastfall / low jMK into fuzzy (fuzzy jMK sounds like it should work?)
- jMP fastfall into jumpover jMP djc back jMP
- airthrow djc jHK H.Beam and then use that you are landing earlier than them to dashjump mixup (perhaps with kamikaze cover?)
 
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IsaVulpes said:
- jMP fastfall into jumpover jMP djc back jMP

ho ho, that does not work on small characters. instead you should be doing j.mp > instant overhead j.lp > crossover j.mp > djc j.mk > j.hp > air lp lasor. gives you +4-+5 on block. on hit it's +11 just enough frames to land and do a s.lp link into c.mk, c.hp follow up.

IsaVulpes said:
- airthrow djc jHK H.Beam and then use that you are landing earlier than them to dashjump mixup (perhaps with kamikaze cover?)

Kamikaze is 50 frames do you honestly think that you can use this move while the opponent is barely half a screen away from you and not get stuffed? no you're better off with just doing a dash in low for a quick reset.

IsaVulpes said:
- sHK everywhere
That sounds very dangerous to yourself especially if you are throwing out the move in neutral thanks to it's long recovery and the fact that it can only be canceled into a super making it safe-ish kinda expensive.

IsaVulpes said:
- random Beam super as a read

you're joking right? the start up alone from the super might get you killed if the opponent isn't full screen always from you. It also gives you enough time to see that the super is coming so you can block it and punish it. What made you think that Robo's most unsafe super would be the perfect one to throw out randomly to "read" people. No Gregor, SSJ, BFF, those are supers that are great for throwing out randomly thanks to their quick start up and ability to continue the combo afterword.

IsaVulpes said:
- Beam xx Beam Super in neutral (opponents quickly get automatic muscle memory of "move forward after having blocked/been hit by a beam", this shuts that down very well)

Again unless this is at FullScreen the opponent can quite clearly see the super startup so they can either continue to block or dash in and use a super to counter yours. It's too risky.
 
Oh, I should've copied that list over cause those are all things I just normally do but keep forgetting to tell others about. Tagging @mcpeanuts in case there's stuff on that list I didn't already tell you cause thats all good stuff.

Ninja said:
Kamikaze is 50 frames do you honestly think that you can use this move while the opponent is barely half a screen away from you and not get stuffed? no you're better off with just doing a dash in low for a quick reset.

Kamikaze doesn't have that much startup, and you can't hit her to get rid of the head, so actually yeah that's pretty good. Kamikaze is a lot safer than people are giving credit for, people should use it more :(

Ninja said:
That sounds very dangerous to yourself especially if you are throwing out the move in neutral thanks to it's long recovery and the fact that it can only be canceled into a super making it safe-ish kinda expensive.

Besides the fact that every player in this game gets hit by low->high mixup, it's already good, plus you have forever to call and assist to help cover you to make it safe. There are worse mixup options that people shouldn't have trouble dealing with that still work.

Ninja said:
you're joking right?

No? You obviously don't throw it out close to the opponent, but you can't react to the super once it's hit the flash, so if you did anything other than straight up blocking, you'll get hit, which is super easy to do since people normally want to move forward to get through laser zoning. It's actually really really tricky and an option worth respecting, especially when you have low life.
 
thanks dudes, this is exactly what I was looking for. About half of the stuff I've already been doing, the other half are good ideas that I'm going to try and implement, so I appreciate all the input. My main problem was mostly that I felt like the things I was trying were lackluster, so I wanted to see if there were massive holes that I was missing. Overall though I think my gameplay and general idea is pretty much on par with what you guys and others have been doing. I just need to get some more game time with her.

L Danger! I remember seeing it in the tutorial now that I think about it, but I totally forgot that she has upper body invincibility, which totally changes my perspective on it. I played a set last night with Deer and used it a few times with good success.

As for the head launches, I agree that L headlaunch is currently underrated. It has the fastest startup and recovery of the head launches, and once the head starts moving there is no stopping it ( minus a projectile ) so even if Robo gets hit, chances are the head will interrupt the opponents offense and if you're looking for it you may even be able to convert w/ magnet super.

As for M headlaunch mines, I think it's definitely important in the Bella matchup since she can't run-stop through them, it sort of forces her to play your game. Probably also useful in the BB matchup as well. Otherwise, I feel like all it really does it causes your opponent to sit back and kills some clock, and allows Robo an opportunity to go in if she wants, but I'm not sure that's what she wants to do.
 
Note that Bella can dash on mines and reflect the explosion

E: IF the opponent just sits back and waits for Mine to run out, you got time to get out two new heads, which is very worth it.
The problem is more that a lot of approach angles straightup ignore mines
 
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played some games against @fenster yesterday and got some good games playing as and against robo-fortune. Just a few notes to take away:

- I got hit with A LOT of tick throws; this is the topic/focus of the week
- I'm a little too trigger happy with my M Rush Punches. A few of them I tried to e-brake and was simply too late, but either way I need to be a bit smarter about it
- Practice using H pinion assist for Robo

Otherwise, some stuff regarding Robo:

- I think Painwheel vs. robo is ok, a bit annoying but nothing like peacock. Using the same deadzone as you would vs. peacock is probably good, just above H beam level, and if she tries to do any air lasers its a pretty good commit from her end and PWs flight is fast enough to avoid them. Once you land a hit the matchup is definitely in PWs favor.

- I found it more difficult to approach as BB, gotta work on this and be a tad more patient.

- I need to remember to use st.hk more often in resets

- Robo's Ground throw: I can convert easily with L beat extend. Ground throw -> L/M laser + H Pinion may also work well but need to try
 
dMags said:
- Robo's Ground throw: I can convert easily with L beat extend. Ground throw -> L/M laser + H Pinion may also work well but need to try

got to time it just right but you have to use heavy beam. but yeah you can try to convert off that.
 
Ninja said:
got to time it just right but you have to use heavy beam. but yeah you can try to convert off that.

I'll have to try again in the lab, but IIRC the issue I had with H beam was that the final hit of beam would connect after the H pinion, so the enemy never got flung back. Probably just my timing.
 
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