• As part of the relaunch of Skullheart, ALL previous threads have been archived. You can find them at the bottom of the forum in the Archives (2021) section. The archives are locked, so please use the new forum sections to create new discussion threads.

...Josh's struggle to not suck...

I've decided for the next few weeks to do nothing but play my team solo. I'm relying to much on assists for neutral and it's not good. So first I need to work on Filia cause she is my weakest character in neutral.
 
So after getting better internet and actually seeing what I'm doing and how My opponent is reacting I figured a few things out... I have no idea how to punish..... Players will just throw out moves and I sit there thinking Y? So I guess the next step is being able to counter cause that seems to be where my defense is lacking (and isn't that ironic that my weakest defense is my offense.... -_-)

So next order of business sets?? Who wants to play tonight?
 
Ballz I am so late responding to you Cherry! Yeah I'm gonna go to NEC.

So in my long list of things I need to do my next objective is buying an ASUS monitor. I was talking to Acfan about it at our local and I was explaining to him that I thought there was some delay on the game and he asked what monitor I use. Another piece of hardware that I can invest in to minimize input issues offline.
 
All good. I might go, just so i can get some sets in with the boys from the East Coast. Probably not tho
 
Does anyone know what the input buffer period is after throws? Also is it universal or does it vary by character? I'm trying to figure out the exact frame I have to input a QCF off of double's throw to get gun to hit every time. (It would also be nice to know for other characters just to see what's possible)
 
joshb911 said:
Does anyone know what the input buffer period is after throws? Also is it universal or does it vary by character? I'm trying to figure out the exact frame I have to input a QCF off of double's throw to get gun to hit every time. (It would also be nice to know for other characters just to see what's possible)

I have no idea about frame data but IMO it's better to just practice it and get a feel for the timing rather than try to think "oh I have x frames to do this input". YMMV but I generally start to do the input around halfway between when double makes the "fist" and when she lets them go. On mobile so I can't find it now but somewhere in the double tech thread me and gllt had a discussion about this and who it works on. I generally do c.mp after s.mp now cause it's more reliable on some characters and not really any less reliable on anyone in my experience. Also if positioning is not a factor then backthrow leaves them closer to you for an easier conversion.
 
Pickles said:
I have no idea about frame data but IMO it's better to just practice it and get a feel for the timing rather than try to think "oh I have x frames to do this input". YMMV but I generally start to do the input around halfway between when double makes the "fist" and when she lets them go. On mobile so I can't find it now but somewhere in the double tech thread me and gllt had a discussion about this and who it works on. I generally do c.mp after s.mp now cause it's more reliable on some characters and not really any less reliable on anyone in my experience. Also if positioning is not a factor then backthrow leaves them closer to you for an easier conversion.
I was looking into s.hk into another H luger. If you luger out of throw you get a free OTG after the 2nd luger to put them back on the ground so this seemed ok to me for an easy confirm if you can time the first luger
 
joshb911 said:
If you luger out of throw you get a free OTG after the 2nd luger to put them back on the ground

i could be wrong but i'm pretty sure saving otg is the whole reason to use gun, you get the same (or better) damage and can do all the same resets by just doing flesh step otg c.lk into whatever, but if you use gun you can end a combo early with fugazi so you don't give them too much meter and undizzy for scaled combo damage.
 
Pickles said:
i could be wrong but i'm pretty sure saving otg is the whole reason to use gun, you get the same (or better) damage and can do all the same resets by just doing flesh step otg c.lk into whatever, but if you use gun you can end a combo early with fugazi so you don't give them too much meter and undizzy for scaled combo damage.
I just realized that you would only want to use FK if you keep an OTG. I wonder why people haven't looked into oki setups off FK yet?
 
Dreamepitaph said:
There are already oku setups tho
There are tech chases not oki setups off it due to different wake up times of each character. However I still think there is potential
 
just for starters j.hk is a really good oki tool cause avery can cover stuff, especially if you have an assist you can really make people hold the mixup on wakeup. I'm not good at double mixups in the corner yet but you can look at good double players to see what they do and just do that on their wakeup after sliding knockdown.
 
I know j.hk is good on wakeup but I just watched 3 hours of sage, kennin, Winnie, and Domo and didn't see a single sliding KD setup?? Is it just not as good as other setups or am I missing something??? I feel like it's pretty strong against mashing and good at conserving meter
 
double has good enough corner carry that honestly I think you're better off if you're going into kd at least get them into the corner first. But the general meta right now seems to be that sliding knockdown is not as good as resets (given the option between the two) since most characters can reversal out of a knockdown situation relatively easily (there are some situations that top level players go into sliding knockdown but all of them involve using the time from a knockdown to tag in, load val vials, etc.). That said double is pretty oppressive once your opponent is cornered and fugazi into KD is an easy way to get yourself into that situation without using too much undizzy and get a setup as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cadenza
That makes sense. I just wanted to make sure I was on the same page as everyone else before I spent 4 hours coming up with setups.
 
So at this point I can play my team in any order and I base it pretty much on matchup. This is kind of what I look at:

Valentine: Filia loses, Fukua has a hard time dealing with double jump cross, double has h Luger to deal with double jump cross making double ideal

Parasoul: Filia loses depending on assist, Fukua wins pretty easily but air resets are limited and lead to hard knockdowns which are not ideal, double has less neutral tools then Fukua for this match but her mixups are better in the air double point

Bella: Filia has the easiest time getting in and out of her ranges and does not have to worry about reflect, Fukua wins match but neutral is more difficult because of j.mp and j.hk however l shadow blows up Bella, double has no problem with this match pretty much any point depending on assist

Fortune: Filia loses this clean fiber is difficult to deal with especially with an assist like bomber to make it safe, Fukua can terrorize with l shadow and fireballs, double can't space fortune making it hard to do anything in neutral Fukua point

Beowulf: Filia loses to chair and armored moves and has a very hard time dealing with j.hp, Fukua can blow up air approaches with s.hk Kara m shadows, double wins once she gets a hit double or Fukua point

Big band: Filia can win but needs bomber to make sure that she doesn't get grabed by a train, Fukua can win this if BB stays on the ground with l shadow or if he j.lk cymbals with m shadow, double has the easiest time IMO due to the l Luger m shadow combo being able to break most jump ins and some armored moves double point almost all the time

Robo: Filia LOL, Fukua can not out space her but easy once in, double can car on reaction which gets you in even if they try to run away you can chase them down double point

Squigly: Filia gets in fast an can stay in making SBO pretty useless unless it's a hard read overhead SBO, Fukua has the easiest time and pretty much has an answer for every thing, double easily wins with l Luger pressure to not allow a charge I play Filia point here but I can play others depending on assists and how the opponent plays

PW: Filia has a hard time keeping her out of the air, Fukua can not zone her in the air and must relie on j.lp so this is alright, double with m shadow rips apart PW double point

Peacock: Filia has the best ways around bombs and most walls, Fukua needs meter to be a threat, double needs to get in or has a hard time dealing with cock Filia point

Eliza: Filia has updo to get out of pressure so not awful and can IAD over upperkhat, Fukua can win pretty easy, double can out space Eliza double point

Filia: Filia just a mirror, Fukua out spaces Filia, double wins once she gets full screen double point

Fukua: Filia does not have a good time here, Fukua again mirror, double seems to do alright Fukua point most times because I know what I can do

Double: Filia hard time getting in and losses in the air, Fukua can pretty much punish most of doubles options, double another mirror I like double point here I don't know why

This isn't a tier list this is just my thinking in some matchups and I usually only use these as a starting point till I download my opponent. Let me know what you guys think cause I know someone is gonna disagree here
 
joshb911 said:
That makes sense. I just wanted to make sure I was on the same page as everyone else before I spent 4 hours coming up with setups.
The main features of sliding knockdowns that you can't get with a regular reset setup, I would say are
A) You get your assist back even if you used it in the combo and can use that to cover whatever you're doing
B) It's a wakeup situation so you get to use safejumps and safejump-like pokes vs slow reversals (Quickly recovering c.lk's and the like)

If you tailor the setup to the opponent and their options, you can legitimately force them to respect your mixup. Whether that's more guaranteed than a conventional reset depends on the situation, probably.
 
  • Like
Reactions: joshb911 and Pickles
Sliding also generally puts you pretty close to or into the corner. I hear that's good.
 
Hmm, I like the idea of the "x vs x" list, but it's really hard for it to be legitimate since everyone has assists which covers their weaknesses or provides with additional options. What I did was a "what does his character have that makes them special" list. I went through the cast and weighed all their abilities that makes them a viable threat or makes them stand out, i.e. Squigly's stancel pressure, Filia's air mobility and fast overheads, Fukua's j.hk :kappa: Still, I like what you've done and wish you luck.
 
It's not a set in stone list by any means. It's more of an outline. So for instance if I see my opponent pick LNL, brass, or any armored move I automatically put Fukua point just so I can use l shadow to break armor. If I see copter or Osiris double point. Bomber or BE usually Filia. But really it depends on the player and what I learn about them if I lose or win a match.

Ok so HK are not all bad then.. I'll have to look into some safe jumps and crossups. I know barell is stupid good at crossing up twice so I'll have to look into that I suppose
 
Ok so fillia has no way in on Robo at all. I confirmed this after I saw Winnie play sonicfox. The best thing she can do is make a hard read on h beam and do Gregor and this will only work of robo doesn't have 3 bars to cancel into that overload mode or whatever it's called. Once Filia gets in it's super easy but to get from point A to point B leaves Filia with no life and gives the opponent so much meter. It would not be as hard if you could TK L airball but robo can double jump m air beam and stop that approach.
 
L laser beats c.hk and if the robo is any good there is usually a mine somewhere. Drill does work but this requires robo to be on the ground which does not happen very often. So robo has an answer to an air approach and to ground approaches. On top of that when Filia gets in robo has no problem with getting away. Double can h Luger j.hk run away and Fukua can BFF lasers. I mean it's possible but it's not worth the effort when I have 2 other characters that get the job done more effectively
 
i have not watched winnie vs sonic (and that sounds like sonic winning is not because of any innate matchup favorability sonicfox is just sonicfox) but from my own experience the matchup is not awful, like 6-4 at WORST but probably closer to 5.5-4.5 for robo. Robo runaway with j.hk is much more obnoxious than her actual zoning; to keep filia out she has to guess right because filia has ways through any zoning action Robo chooses to use. You need to know how to ground dashblock though if you can't do that you lose. Once filia gets closer and robo switches to offense robo can still do all her robo things but if filia gets a hit she wins. Its more or less even IMO.
 
So I'm learning squig cause I'm sick of losing to her and not understanding why. I think I'm gonna try what other players have been doing and try to learn most of the cast. I think this will help with my matchup knowledge and hopefully stop me from sucking so much....
 
I wish you luck. She has a painfully high floor.
 
Squigly not so worried about PW on the other hand I'm not looking forward to
 
joshb911 said:
Ballz I am so late responding to you Cherry! Yeah I'm gonna go to NEC.

So in my long list of things I need to do my next objective is buying an ASUS monitor. I was talking to Acfan about it at our local and I was explaining to him that I thought there was some delay on the game and he asked what monitor I use. Another piece of hardware that I can invest in to minimize input issues offline.

Here's my monitor Josh. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236117 Only has 1 HDMI slot but it works great for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: joshb911
joshb911 said:
So I'm learning squig cause I'm sick of losing to her and not understanding why. I think I'm gonna try what other players have been doing and try to learn most of the cast. I think this will help with my matchup knowledge and hopefully stop me from sucking so much....
Let me know if you want any tips, I don't main her anymore but I still have New England's best Squigly
 
  • Like
Reactions: joshb911
Does anyone in New England main Squigly?
 
Hit me up if you're wondering if you can convert off X move against X. I have almost checked every single move against every single character. Good luck with Squiggles.
 
one thing to note, I don't really play squigly of course but my impression is that squigly, moreso than other cast members, plays a lot differently depending on the assist you run. Squig/Brass is much different than Squig/Copter for example. If you're playing new characters to learn the matchup I would suggest trying squig with different assists to see what changes.
 
Pickles said:
one thing to note, I don't really play squigly of course but my impression is that squigly, moreso than other cast members, plays a lot differently depending on the assist you run. Squig/Brass is much different than Squig/Copter for example. If you're playing new characters to learn the matchup I would suggest trying squig with different assists to see what changes.
Not trying to be an ass, but I'm probably going to sound that way(I'm a real people person).
That statement is kind of generic, in the sense that it applies to nearly everyone(Looking at you, peacock!)I could make the same statement regarding Fukua i.e. Fukua with L Luger assist or Air George assist vs Fukua with LnL or Hornet Bomber. Not saying you're incorrect in any way.

That being said, certain assists(Bomber,Brass,Copter) REALLY compliment Squigly's ability to manipulate the amount of space on the screen(looking at you, zeknife. that meterless confirm brass/center stage is beautiful).
 
I don't lose to assists as much as I lose to overheads, grabs, and lows. I've been losing to solo players a lot lately. Assists I understand it's mixups that kill me. I rarely get hit by Filia mixups cause I know ok this is their option time to reversal or block the opposite way. Squig on the other hand it's always ok j.lk then m GD then ahh ahh ahh FUCK!!!! WHY WOULD YOU NOT GRAB ME!!! And then I question myself and realize I don't understand the cast
 
M Divekick has a lot of blockstun. If she uses L divekick, there's alot less blockstun which allows for a divekick grab "blockstring" that's really hard to predict unless you know the differences between the divekicks. also M Divekick s.lp/s.lk is combo-able, so it's really nice to use to reset or continue a combo.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back