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SG Game Design Discussion

View619 said:
Isn't that usually the answer though, until somebody finds a solution?

A suggestion is reset before the DHC becomes available and kill off of that or reset in the air only (my favourite) but you can abuse it too, I suppose.


... Of course. The "problem" generally occurs if these solutions don't work right of these solutions don't occur right off the bat. Like sure, if one can gettbr hit first... But what if one doesn't? Then one has to actually deal with the stupid. Also, it's a win more strat in many aspects cause it will kill and give he who has killed, meter to then enact this strat. And it ain't like it's that hard to gain 1 meter.


But like I said, I've just designed my new team around the stupid as well.
Cause it's like w/e at this point.
 
Dime_x said:
... Of course. The "problem" generally occurs if these solutions don't work right of these solutions don't occur right off the bat. Like sure, if one can gettbr hit first... But what if one doesn't? Then one has to actually deal with the stupid. Also, it's a win more strat in many aspects cause it will kill and give he who has killed, meter to then enact this strat. And it ain't like it's that hard to gain 1 meter.


But like I said, I've just designed my new team around the stupid as well.
Cause it's like w/e at this point.

But your current team doesn't abuse hitstop...
 
Age said:
But your current team doesn't abuse hitstop...



...depends on how you look at it.
Parasol doesnt, but painwheel deathcrawl into cats does, and more than that it abuses invincible reversals into either safe on block supers or full combo on hit supers.

Parasoul pillar xx sniper shot dhc install may as well be since no one is going to super through pillar or block it on reaction. And then painwheel air super dhc into cats does this on incoming as well against an airborn opponent and a non airborn opponent has to use meter to stop it it... So all in all id say my team abuses it pretty well.

Or dont you remember that back in the day i couldnt reversal deathcrawl against bella even on pbgc through your attacks cause you would always shows topper through it... You cant do that anymore. Now painwheels deathcrawl has to be respected as a legit reversal especially backed by cats.

So yeah, the entire team has safe on block supers, though painwheel is the only one that really abuses hitstop per se.. And funnily enough... SHE is the problem on the team... Well i guess they are all a problem but imho i suffer the most from losing her... But maybe I'm just being dumb.


-edit


Also... I never particularly thought that hitstop was the problem... The problem is invincible reversals dhc into full combo safe on block supers... 2 of my characters give full combo, one doesnt but is "relatively" safe... Which is good enough in my eyes especially when shes first and therefor needs her safe on block super the least.... So ... Er yeah, hitstop is a problem...but more like it creates more problems rather than it IS the problem... In my mind at least.
 
So here's a random thought:

Why do jump-ins lead to more damage than grounded attacks in skullgirls? Jumping doesn't pose any real risk by itself like it does in street fighter, and if anything a jumping attack is safer on block and whiff than a grounded one. That means that jump-ins are lower risk and higher reward than low attacks.
 
Age said:
So here's a random thought:

Why do jump-ins lead to more damage than grounded attacks in skullgirls? Jumping doesn't pose any real risk by itself like it does in street fighter, and if anything a jumping attack is safer on block and whiff than a grounded one. That means that jump-ins are lower risk and higher reward than low attacks.

I've always thought there should be some un-blockable grounded moves for dealing with jumps, especially since you can chicken block and still have access to any remaining air options (block Bella s.lk, double jump/mash jab, for example). I don't think jumping has been so free in any other game. The only issue I can see with this is how to balance it so you don't have unblockable incoming setups.
 
The reasoning I've heard before is that even in games where you have air block you still have fewer options after jumping than you do before. Like, on the ground you have control over your movement and everything, plus the opportunity to jump, while after jumping you're somewhat more committed to being where you jumped to. In theory anyway. Now, in SG almost everyone has at least a couple air movement options and normals that change your momentum so that idea doesn't work as well, but that combined with the fact that jump-ins essentially just act as an extra first hit, and they couldn't make jump-in combos do less without some arbitrary limitation, ends up with what we have now being pretty much fine. Heck, if your jump-in is multihit it's actually worse damage-wise.
 
View619 said:
I've always thought there should be some un-blockable grounded moves for dealing with jump

So basically you think it shouldn't be low risk. It should be higher risk, higher reward?


RanagastDB said:
The reasoning I've heard before is that even in games where you have air block you still have fewer options after jumping than you do before. Like, on the ground you have control over your movement and everything, plus the opportunity to jump, while after jumping you're somewhat more committed to being where you jumped to. In theory anyway. Now, in SG almost everyone has at least a couple air movement options and normals that change your momentum so that idea doesn't work as well, but that combined with the fact that jump-ins essentially just act as an extra first hit, and they couldn't make jump-in combos do less without some arbitrary limitation, ends up with what we have now being pretty much fine. Heck, if your jump-in is multihit it's actually worse damage-wise.

You're confusing me here. You say that the normal limitations of jumps don't apply as much in SG, and that a jump-in is basically a free extra hit. If that is 'pretty much fine' is that because you feel that some options having much better risk/reward is just part of the game, or is it because you feel it's the lesser of two evils given the alternative of an arbitrary limitation to cut damage from jump ins?

The extra damage from jump ins is pretty arbitrary as it stands anyway. It's mainly to simplify combos so you don't have to remember tons of seperate ones based on starters. There's no reason that that I can see that it couldn't have been 'first ground chain is stage 1 and free from ips' instead though.
 
It's not a "free" extra hit, it's just a hit from the air. There being more air options in SG works both ways. Both characters are generally going to want to be in/controlling the air. If you've set up a situation in which you are in the air and they are on the ground below you, you're in an advantageous position, and as such it's not unreasonable to be rewarded for it. And while jump limititations don't apply as much in SG that doesn't mean they don't apply at all. Somebody super jumps at you, there's only so many ways that can go, you know?

So a jump-in only comes from being in an advantageous position already, but one you still have to commit to, so I don't think the risk/reward is all that unreasonable. So more along the lines of "lesser of two evils" I guess. I'm not sure what you mean by "first ground chain stage 1 and free from ips" as an answer to this problem though. Stage 2 already doesn't track for ips and I don't know what that would mean for jump-ins at all. The only way I could see jump-ins being weakened would either be increased scaling on air starters, or earlier ips/undizzy progression, both of which just make things more needlessly complicated to solve a problem that I'm not sure warrants that kind of change. I think the benefits balance pretty well with the risks and requirements. Maybe I'm just talking out of my ass, IDK.

Also, only tangentially related but, I hadn't thought about it but SG kind of already incentivizes blocking high, doesn't it? Most of the cast has good air normals and standing overheads, throws can't be crouch-teched and lows aren't like, ridiculously fast or anything.
 
Age said:
So basically you think it shouldn't be low risk. It should be higher risk, higher reward?

Yeah, I think jumping should be higher risk in general. Maybe not to the point where you can't block outright, but I feel like there needs to be some risk to jumping in SG, with all the aerial mobility options that most of the cast has. Right now, getting in the air and calling assist to cover the ground is the main approach tool afaik, with very little reason to mix in grounded approaches. If it's just "opponent loses air options after chicken blocking, unless you alpha counter or pbgc" I would be happy. Outside of punishing up-back during pressure, I don't really see any weaknesses to it unless your character just has limited aerial options in general.
 
View619 said:
I've always thought there should be some un-blockable grounded moves for dealing with jumps

That is very Un-Marvel. Keep that shiz in Vampire Savior.

Besides, it would make corner pressure even more ridiculous. Most anti airs have really strong priority, and chicken blocking isn't that great (make them block something, iad overhead them as soon as they land, profit). I don't think air unblockable are a good idea.
 
Eh, Marvel 2 had guard break though, so I don't know about that (MVC3 should be ignored). The whole idea of mixing them up as soon as they land is great...except they can act again if they fall out of block stun before landing. So, your IAD can get hit by a jumping normal or whiff as the opponent double jumps. Trust me, I've been in enough situations where I make opponent block an AA normal, then set-up to catch them with something as they land only to see opponent act again, it's pretty silly.

Granted, I can always chain to keep them in block stun...but then they gain access to push block.
 
IMO Guard Breaks were a very character and match up specific technique that required a lot of set up as well as an assist and super prepared.

Well it depends on the match up. I'm pretty sure there are legitimate frame traps for falling opponents. Otherwise it's a read like most reads. But if your opponent is always mashing 5a even when they just got put in a disadvantageous situation, than I'd say you don't have much to worry about heh.
 
Yeah, it's not an "every instance" thing, it's just pretty annoying when it does happen. I can live with it, but I don't really like it. There's always the 50/50 for them between standing AA and air grab.
 
View619 said:
I don't think jumping has been so free in any other game.
XSF, MvC2? And don't give me guard breaks, those basically didn't matter vs normal jumps and pretty much nobody normal jumps anyway in MvC2. Like this was almost never even a thing except on incoming in 10 years of Marvel 2, aside from people accidentally guardbreaking themselves on HSF...and in XSF if you pushblocked and held Up you could superjump from midair, making them moot.
GG, BB? At LEAST BB, where Barrier is a separate gauge and you can IB to make it no worse than regular block, I barely ever see an air unblockable hit anyone unless it's a throw or a counterhit.

Do note that while you're in the air you have no mixup options, since you can only hit high or mid. And generally nothing invincible without meter.
 
Mike_Z said:
Do note that while you're in the air you have no mixup options, since you can only hit high or mid. And generally nothing invincible without meter.

Well there's left/right mixups, and with assists in the mix there's high/lows even while the attacker is in the air. On defense yeah, being in the air makes you safe from high/low, which again makes it the lower risk place to be in sg.
 
You could also empty empty jump into a low. Very unsafe and not particularly scary mix up, but it can get the job done in a pinch.
 
Yeah Filia, Val, Fortune and PW all have really strong mixup options in the air.

Other characters may have crossups but they're mostly reactable and don't really work when people are jumping around all the time anyway.

But as far as I'm concerned the only character who has a really hard time dealing with people who are always in the air against her is Cerebella. All of her options are either

Super Risky - Excellabella, Devil Horns, Dynamo

or

Lead to very little damage - j.mp, j.HP, airthrow

She really feels dependent on her assists to get a good conversion off of hitting somebody out of the air mid-screen. The only exception is j.HK which doesn't really have the best air to air hitbox.
 
My issue is really that most grounded AA options seem weak overall. I don't really have a problem with the air-to-air options, those are fine. Bella probably has the best grounded AA options in the game, imo, between her normals, specials and Dynamo.
 
My thoughts on this friday's beta experiments (even though I haven't tried them yet GO THEORY FIGHTING!)

LnL not whiffing on crouching Filia - THANK YOU

No armor on LP dash punch - Probably fair, it was way too braindead and beat too many things for something that's only -4 on block

1 Armor on MP Dash punch - Along with the previous nerf, I don't think this is necessary. MP Dash punch is already -10 on block. I feel like without armor on LP dash punch he needs 2 hits of armor on MP dash punch. His giant hitbox makes him so easy to crack open once you get in that I feel like he needs to be really scary to get in on. HP Rushpunch still has 2 hits of armor but its so unsafe that you can't really throw it out whenever you want.

Painwheel - 2 hits of armor on j.HP, IMO buffs her in a place where she didn't need to be buffed - air to air. Unfly without install, I'm pretty much fine with that, since it mostly buffs her against zoning which is something she's not so good at.
 
2 armor on painwheel j.hp is something that she could really use especially in the peacock matchup, because dealing with plane that hits fullscreen when combined with an item drop that can be charged and released if armor is seen but not released if armor isn't seen, felt pretty damn unfair. I just wonder if this will make the peacock matchup a little free? Who knows, but more tweaking is never out of the question.

Aside from that, I feel like the armor buff will mostly have an impact on the parasoul and Bella matchups since 2 hit chains will no longer be braindead breaks against armor. This probably puts the Bella matchup in a better place for painwheel strategically.

But will make the Bella side of the matchup harder for Bella. A change I could be behind would be a slight hitbox range increase on excelebella (bar testing) with perhaps a slight increase on excelebellas recovery to balance. This way, correct guesses are rewarded more from both sides of the matchup.

Another balance I would be behind would be making j.hp. Not flight cancelable while charging, if it were to get 2 hits of armor. Once again to force correct decisions rather than flight cancel tomfoolery.
 
I would think 2 hits armor on J.hp was done to allow her to absorb a hit from the assist and point, then retaliate instead of eating one then getting boned. Unfly is cool, that's the one thing flight really needed.
 
Honestly I already feel like PW vs. Bella is in PW's favor. 2 hits of armor would make things really hard for bella since her air throw sucks.
 
Jason said:
Honestly I already feel like PW vs. Bella is in PW's favor. 2 hits of armor would make things really hard for bella since her air throw sucks.


Excelebella,diamond dynamo,j.lp restands,j.lk 3 chains into j.hp,cr.hp

And there is always the fact that painwheel used to lose the matchup even with 2hits of armor... Honestly Bella has some of the best ways of dealing with armor in the cast. The only characters that might be fucked over are peacock and fortune cause fortune was never great against armor anyways,though even she has options that aren't exactly sub par.

And then there's the fact that bellas j.mp beats almost everything painwheel does and allows Bella to dictate spacing in the matchup.
 
Every time you do Dynamo, Horns, or Excellabella against PW its a risk because she can fly cancel out of any jump-in and just feint until you second guess yourself enough that she can get in or she baits out an anti-air and goes in for the punish.

and j.LP mash loses air to air with just about everything that isn't j.HP

Even if you do break armor with j.MP j.HP or whatever, you don't get any damage out of it outside the corner. Meanwhile if PW lands an air to air she gets a full damage combo into reset pressure into whatever she wants. The risk/reward is heavily in her favor when it comes to air to air.
 
Lol, I don't agree with any of that. Yes pw can convert any hit. No it isn't always the greatest thing. For all the conversions that painwheel gets, how many times did her air attacks get beat? Probably more than she went into full combo. As far as all those feints are concerned, that's when Bella isn't properly playing aggressive. Which there is little reason for Bella to do in the matchup since Bella's normals in the air>painwheels.


IF painwheel can make space,THEN painwheel gets an advantage in the matchup. And that advantage is generally that she gets to approach in her own terms but all of her approaches are react AA superable since she can't block in the air. And if she's feinting, she isn't attacking and that's bella's signal to go in.
 
How can bella play aggressive when PW has all the air maneuverability in the world? She can run away for as long as she wants until Bella messes up.

And one conversion is all you need when you have some of the best resets in the game. PW can get beat out in the air as many times as she likes but one good hit is all she needs to win the match.
 
every thread = pw vs bella discussion.

it's an even match; jump back j.mp is all pw needs to discourage bella from rushing in. Excellabella and dynamo discourage pw from approaching from the air. That's why you'll see them dance around long-mid range waiting for someone to do something and then punish. The mix up is that one person makes a correct guess and gets into close range with advantage and starts pressure.
 
I really don't see it. PW gets way more sustained pressure from a correct guess in this 'dance' while all of Bella's options that aren't Horns basically only get her some screen positioning and maybe 2-3K damage for 1 meter.

Even if it is an Even match, there's no reason to make it worse by buffing PW's j.HP
 
That matchup is one of the ones that I think can be difficult to just give a flat number to in a game like Skullgirls.

I think it depends almost entirely on the situation in which the 2 begin from.

For example, at round start, Bella just absolutely and completely dominates Painwheel, Painwheel either has to take a ridiculous risk or concede almost a full screen of space. This puts Bella in such a powerful position that Painwheel hardly has the tools to escape, making the matchup seem very much in Bella's favour.

If Painwheel is coming in off a DHC into hatred install or Bella incoming after a snap/kill. Painwheel has enough advantage to create some space for nails, or to begin pressuring Bella. Pressuring Bella is sometimes questionable and Bella certainly has tools to escape that situation, but a good bait from that scenario, or safe pressure allows Painwheel to keep momentum. From range, Painwheel has basically no reason to go in and Bella struggles tremendously trying to get in on a Painwheel especially assisted, as long as Painwheel doesn't corner herself I think she wins from this position.

Overall I'd say Bella has more advantages in the matchup than Painwheel, but its hard to put a straight up mark on this one, just because it can swing so heavily depending on how the matchup begins.
 
Maybe we can move past PW vs Bella specifically and look at what 2 hits of j.hp armor does for her vs everybody else? My biggest thing is till being able to absorb AA assist, then point attack and confirm off of that into super or release, or not being forced to land vs a Peacock with a SOID up, since it's either that and plane or that and an air-to-air. Unfly having a vulnerable period means it will only be good with space anyway, while j.hp will be more aggressive.

Bella may have an issue catching PW in the air, but PW can't really do anything to a grounded Bella with meter, or in general to be honest. It is still pretty even though, with all of Bella's AA options vs PW projectiles (!) and mobility. Bella not getting a combo off of her conversions doesn't really matter when everything knocks PW a full screen's length to the corner. If either one gets pressure started, it's hell for the other either way (PW weak defensive options vs Bella's lack of defensive options when reset in the air).
 
Tomo009 said:
That matchup is one of the ones that I think can be difficult to just give a flat number to in a game like Skullgirls.

I think it depends almost entirely on the situation in which the 2 begin from.

For example, at round start, Bella just absolutely and completely dominates Painwheel, Painwheel either has to take a ridiculous risk or concede almost a full screen of space. This puts Bella in such a powerful position that Painwheel hardly has the tools to escape, making the matchup seem very much in Bella's favour.

If Painwheel is coming in off a DHC into hatred install or Bella incoming after a snap/kill. Painwheel has enough advantage to create some space for nails, or to begin pressuring Bella. Pressuring Bella is sometimes questionable and Bella certainly has tools to escape that situation, but a good bait from that scenario, or safe pressure allows Painwheel to keep momentum. From range, Painwheel has basically no reason to go in and Bella struggles tremendously trying to get in on a Painwheel especially assisted, as long as Painwheel doesn't corner herself I think she wins from this position.

Overall I'd say Bella has more advantages in the matchup than Painwheel, but its hard to put a straight up mark on this one, just because it can swing so heavily depending on how the matchup begins.


I agree with this entirely, with the exception that i think its much easier for Bella to move forward with pressure than it is for painwheel to move backward to avoid pressure.

That's the reason why I see the matchup in Bella's favor. I definitely think pw wins it from far and Bella wins it from close. But I think Bella has better tools for aggressing than painwheel has for defending and I think Bella has better tools for defending than painwheel has for offending.

I think it's only slight in both cases but the fact that it IS both cases puts the match squarely in Bella's favor in my mind, though I think it's very hard to quantify.

Also, I think the matchup has gotten better and better for painwheel across every revision of skullgirls. And that the unfly buff will finally be the buff that puts this at a perfect 5-5.


I could be wrong. It might be really bad for Bella or it might not be quite enough for pw... But right now on the outside looking in, it looks 5-5 with maybe a chance at being 6-4 painwheel.


With unfly buff.
 
Being able to armor 2 projectiles and still move forward and then UNFLY... probably means she gets in on Peacock for free.
 
PW vs Bella (this is 1v1) is definitely in Bellas favor. She seems 100% designed to beat out PW in virtually every situation.

PW on the ground is a death sentence for PW. Air to air Bella is typically going to win unless PWs spacing is spot on. Bella has the far better priority (more on PWs priority below). When PW is flying vs a grounded PW, the burden is on PW. We have to do all of that feinting, fly canceling, etc. because Bella has such strong options to our approach.

My advice for Bellas that have a hard time vs PW is to force us to come to you. The Bella that relies on her armored charge like she does in most other MU is the Bella that is going to eat a full combo from our j.mp. Remember that our air priority is shitty. Like super, super shitty. Like worst in the game shitty.

As to the j.hp armor, I'm not sure how it will play out. That said, it is definitely worth trying out. PW vs Peacock can be a nightmare as Dime has pointed out. Plus, PWs weakest portion is ironically air to air (you'd think this wasn't the case since we have fly), but our air priority really is awful and charged j.hp is niche in most MU since 1 hit of armor gets beat out by most things. I almost exclusively use it only for zoning. It works great vs Parasoul... less great vs Peacock.

Also @Jason, you walk toward PW faster than she can fly backwards. If you get close enough, do your stupid arm waving super since we can't block.
 
Jason said:
Being able to armor 2 projectiles and still move forward and then UNFLY... probably means she gets in on Peacock for free.


Yes that is true and is a problem... Theoretically. However, peacock can still overload the screen with 3 hits via plane plus item plus pillar or updo (we aren't talking non teams are we... Cause that would be pretty dumb) or peacock could you know, use that buffed air grab she's got and throw painwheel out of the armor. And peacock can also teleport the armor.


Peacock can also j.hk and land then rejump and j.hp for 3 hits against the armor plus being able to back airdash cancel the j.hp.


Peacock can call an item and then superjump and double jump to get over painwheel and drop an item on painwheels armor and then do all kinds of stuff to get away again.

Basically yes painwheel will probably get in for free against peacock flowchart. But that doesn't mean that peacock is left without options for spacing out painwheel.

In the end it's only the board that will tell whether its op or not, but looking at it now it seems like peacock has options.... After all peacock is tied for most mobility options in the game with fortune and Val (airdash forward and back, double jump, run)
 
who cares about bella vs PW? that match is fine.
2 hits of armor on j.hp though is too good imo. Painwheel is fine.
 
So to counter the "she gets in on Peacock for free"... way not true. As it stands right now, Peacock is able to easily handle 1 bit of armor. She is able to plane into item drop. When she is close, the thing that jumps out of her hat multihits. Do that with Shotgun blast, and armor disappears before the j.hp ever comes out.

For other MU:

Double won't be affected. Her main jump in is a better version of PWs j.mp which just eats through armor.

Similarly, it won't affect PW mirror. PWs that charge vs PW are the ones that get thrown. It will however make it easier to get through Elda's charged nail spam. I'd be curious to see how that works.

I actually look forward to it vs Parasoul. Her air priority puts PW in a terrible, terrible way. Really, ask any solo PW what we do vs a Parsoul and it is a bleak MU.

Squigs will still be able to go through it with j.hp. The MU shouldn't change at all.

Filia and Fortune are both able to IAD into something else which remains to be seen how it will do vs them.

Same with Val. I'd be curious to see how this plays out. Val auto beats PW out of the air with zombie. This might turn the tables on that.
 
You're going to see Squigly's j.HP trading with PW's a lot more often than it does now if it has 2 hits of armor though, and it already trades pretty frequently. PW's j.HP will probably win occasionally if one of the hits of j.HP whiffs (which happens all the time). I dunno how that impacts the matchup.

Anyway I feel like PW is already a really really good character. She doesn't need huge buffs.

Also if you're close enough to get hit by Peacock's j.HK you've already pushed Peacock quite a ways back. You can soak though plane and item drop and then unfly and block whatever else she throws at you.
 
@Jason

If pw goes through plane and item she still has to contend with lk and mk bomb plus teleport plus fake teleport and an assist.

And that's only if the peacock is a dumb that sits there and releases item knowing that j.hp goes through. But why wouldn't peacock just hold item and then do a dash airthrow? Peacock isn't helpless man... She has a crapload of neutral game moves. giving pw a way through peacocks flowchart is a good thing IMO.

And yes pw is a good character, but she is highly inconsistent in almost all aspects of matchups. She's one of those characters that gets owned for 10 rounds and no one blinks an eye. But then she will destroy an entire team once and everyone looks at that and goes "look at that , that bitch is so strong" and then she loses another 10 matches and no one says anything.

It seems to me that mike is increasing her neutral game ability in order to balance her via an eventual nerf to her damage. Making her more consistent all around but not so dynamically devastating either. I welcome this cause it puts the skill into the players hands and makes things less matchup based.
 
Dime_x said:
@Jason

If pw goes through plane and item she still has to contend with lk and mk bomb plus teleport plus fake teleport and an assist.

You're not going to be doing j.HP so low to the ground that you can get hit with the ground bombs or teleport and you can't have all 3 bombs out at the same time anymore anyway! The only things that Peacock has that cover the air space at mid to long range are HK Bomb and Item Drop (and possibly her assist but not necessarily since a lot of them are picking Hornet Bomber).

And I don't see any PW's getting owned for 10 rounds in neutral until they get in once and wreck people. Not with equally skilled players.

Whatever, I probably shouldn't be arguing this since I don't play either of these characters.
 
Jason said:
You're going to see Squigly's j.HP trading with PW's a lot more often than it does now if it has 2 hits of armor though, and it already trades pretty frequently. PW's j.HP will probably win occasionally if one of the hits of j.HP whiffs (which happens all the time). I dunno how that impacts the matchup.

Anyway I feel like PW is already a really really good character. She doesn't need huge buffs.

Also if you're close enough to get hit by Peacock's j.HK you've already pushed Peacock quite a ways back. You can soak though plane and item drop and then unfly and block whatever else she throws at you.

It doesn't trade frequently unless you pre-read the j.hp spam. It goes 100% through armor. I've actually found that j.hk works better vs j.hp. This won't change the MU at all. You would need to miss 2 hits of j.hp for armor to be effective which doesn't often happen.

And yes, PW is a solid character, but as a solo she has huge holes. Generally PWs strength is going to be her with an assist of some kind.

And no, the Peacocks that do best vs solo PW are the aggressive ones. The ones that know PW has such shitty air priority. The ones that send a walking George out, tele under you and start trying to combo. Worst case scenario you hit the Peacock and get knocked out of your combo. Best case, their superior priority beats your outs and they put the hurt on you (Peacock can do some sick damage for the record).

I don't think I'm alone in the solo PW world that if a buff to our neutral game has to come at the expense of one of our other stronger areas, I'd take it in a heartbeat.
 
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