IsaVulpes
Just Throw
What's the justification for Painwheel s.LK, Parasoul HK.Egret, Filia Ringlet Psych, Peacock L.Bang NOT getting anything else?
What's the justification for Painwheel s.LK, Parasoul HK.Egret, Filia Ringlet Psych, Peacock L.Bang NOT getting anything else?
Maybe I worded it badly, but I think you are talking about something different to what I intended to. Also I completely forgot Ringlet Psych existed.
I don't think she is either, though my perception is probably skewed from the sheer amount of face crushing I've received from Age's. However I really don't care when he Grab Bags me, it pretty much never does much, at the times it could be used, generally there could have just been guaranteed damage from a completed combo that with meter would do more anyway.The connection is that all of them are subpar tools which have a niche use regardless (aside from PW s.LK which is completely and utterly useless),
And there's no real reason to touch them because the character they sit on is fine.
Grab Bag provides unseeable Air Resets which 'cost' 0 Undizzy and deal meterless 2850 damage.
Yeah your positioning afterwards isn't good, but it's still better than not having this tool at all, and contrary to the US opinion I don't think Bella is garbage.
PW s.LK has the same Frame Data as c.LK, the worse hitbox, much less range, less damage and isn't a low.
? It doesn't launch..
On air hit, it pops them up, I'm not sure why it does that, but it has no use as an anti air, for all the reasons you mentioned on PW's s.LK and it screws up combos if you use it over 2MK.
If it is used correctly, pre round movement is one of the fairest ways to start a match:
Oh, preround movement is turnbased? Cus apparently it's totally not like Val can see you jump forward and then like, react to what you're doing and rip you a new one later.The attacking close character such as val, walks forward, the backing away far character such as peacock, anticipates vals forward movement and jumps OVER val, to her other said and then runs towards vals corner... Peacock has just gained about a full screen more runaway distance before she hits the corner than if she were to just move towards her corner from the start.
Except you should move forward with peacock anyway to deliberately trigger personal space bleach. I mean, why would you move back when you know the other guy will move forward, pushing you closer to the corner and leave you no further away from the other guy? In fact, since no characters like being closer to the corner, the optimum strategy is to always move forward to force a PSB.Maybe allow pre-round movement, but enforce a strict "personal space rule" [PSR] during that short interval where both characters can't be at a certain distance(any closer distance then neutral starting point) close to each other.
In practice during pre-round the two characters at start for example would be able to either:
- Both players back-dash away= personal space not breached
- Player 1 back-dashes away and player 2 neutral jumps= personal space not breached
- Player one back-dash away/Player two forward-dashes to cover the widening space= persona space not breached.
- Both players don't move at all at the starting spot= personal space not breached, etc etc etc you get the idea as long as hard close limit space (any close from starting distance) is not breached.
- Both players air dashing each other from the starting point= Personal Space breached= Air Dash doesn't happen.
Neither side would gain any significant advantage/disadvantage, but would give off the aesthetic illusion that the fight started before the round even formally began.
So basically Bella and Parasoul always lose out?
Bella has double jump and parasoul has a fast ground dash and some of the best fireballs in the game so.... No?
Doesn't this completely remove any purpose for preround movement? Your options become "start closer to the corner" or "stay where you are", I think it's obvious which one is unanimously optimal for any character bar Peacock who has the option to teleport.Maybe allow pre-round movement, but enforce a strict "personal space rule" [PSR] during that short interval where both characters can't be at a certain distance(any closer distance then neutral starting point) close to each other.
In practice during pre-round the two characters at start for example would be able to either:
- Both players back-dash away= personal space not breached
- Player 1 back-dashes away and player 2 neutral jumps= personal space not breached
- Player one back-dash away/Player two forward-dashes to cover the widening space= persona space not breached.
- Both players don't move at all at the starting spot= personal space not breached, etc etc etc you get the idea as long as hard close limit space (any close from starting distance) is not breached.
- Both players air dashing each other from the starting point= Personal Space breached= Air Dash doesn't happen.
Neither side would gain any significant advantage/disadvantage, but would give off the aesthetic illusion that the fight started before the round even formally began.
I just checked in Training Mode and I found out I can call Assist 1 just by pressing LK+HP, but it doesn't work if I press LP+HK for some reason.I'm pretty sure the design choice for it was just that they ran out of button combinations. KK is probably the only one left but that would probably be worse than the diagonal button combos.
I'm not sure what the problem would be to press HP and LK and MP at the same time though? It seems pretty straightforward to me, even if using the macro is probably much easier.
I haven't really had a problem with it. Usually I do something like Painwheel c.MP and call my assist. Painwheel's c.MP takes a long time so it's easy enough to do it then call an assist. I do the same thing with Peacock s.HP and Double j.HP. Double doesn't have a multi hitting ground normal so for her I would normally do s.MK, call lockdown assist, do the second hit of s.MK, which you have to do kind of fast if you don't want there to be a gap in blockstun, but it's not really that bad.What was the design choice for using diagonal button presses for Assists (LK+MP/LP+MK for Assist 1 and MP+HK/MK+HP for Assist 2)? I have an 8 button arcade stick and I can set up the last 2 buttons as Assist Macros, but how do people play 3 character teams on a 6 button Arcade Stick? Is it awkward? Marvel vs Capcom 2 and 3 have 4 attack buttons and 2 separate assist buttons, but SG is a 6 button fighter that lets you also use 2 assists. MvC1 was 6 buttons, but you could only pick 2 playable characters and the 3rd character was just used for Assists.
For example, mine point character is Valentine and I want to combo into a lockdown assist. If my team has 2 characters, then it's not a problem. I just do a combo that has s.HP or s.HKx3 and tap s.HP+s.MK or s.HK+s.MP during the 2nd or 3rd hit of s.HK (I don't remember. I'm still learning Val in the Lab). But what if I run a team of 3 characters like Valentine/Lockdown Assist/Anti-Air Assist and I only have 6 buttons on my arcade stick? How will I call Assist 1 while pressing HP/HK? I'm not saying I have this problem, but I'm curious how 6 button Arcade Stick owners deal with it. Is there some kind of different timing?
What was the design choice for using diagonal button presses for Assists (LK+MP/LP+MK for Assist 1 and MP+HK/MK+HP for Assist 2)? I have an 8 button arcade stick and I can set up the last 2 buttons as Assist Macros, but how do people play 3 character teams on a 6 button Arcade Stick? Is it awkward? Marvel vs Capcom 2 and 3 have 4 attack buttons and 2 separate assist buttons, but SG is a 6 button fighter that lets you also use 2 assists. MvC1 was 6 buttons, but you could only pick 2 playable characters and the 3rd character was just used for Assists.
For example, mine point character is Valentine and I want to combo into a lockdown assist. If my team has 2 characters, then it's not a problem. I just do a combo that has s.HP or s.HKx3 and tap s.HP+s.MK or s.HK+s.MP during the 2nd or 3rd hit of s.HK (I don't remember. I'm still learning Val in the Lab). But what if I run a team of 3 characters like Valentine/Lockdown Assist/Anti-Air Assist and I only have 6 buttons on my arcade stick? How will I call Assist 1 while pressing HP/HK? I'm not saying I have this problem, but I'm curious how 6 button Arcade Stick owners deal with it. Is there some kind of different timing?
Only if you spend years of your life studying arcane magics.
even if if its safe on block, it means you have forced them to make a decision AND blow a resource, which is always advantageous for you whether it leads to damage or not.
from this you can get to have them blow their bar AND you get to condition them for later situations where their reversal super could have been useful.
It's been there since ST, SFA, and XSF. Because without it, your supers are 65f startup moves that cost meter, whereas your DP is a 5f startup move that doesn't, and which you can choose to super out of later. Especially in SG and MvC2's case, many reversal supers lose to block+assist, or require you to spend an extra meter just to not get killed.
They also cost two bars, a fact that (like "it does damage") people seem to ignore, which I don't understand. Making your opponent spend meter is a GAIN.
Yeah but that is both resource AND team synergy reliant, and there are things which can be done about that (i.e. snaps).
Also out of a lot of cathead/install DHC setups on block have gaps where if they are continuing pressure via button press there are gaps for your own reversal, so if your opponent is someone who is into that kind of thing, there is something you can do about it
Trying a reversal against blocked super > dhc into catheads is usually way more risky than it is worth trying. Granted you could try it on an install DHC, painwheel is almost always at frame advantage which makes the situation far more favorable for her.
A lot of people use Double for the very reason that she literally makes any team she is on better. You got one of the top 3 assists in the game on-top of fantastic DHC options. The few times I do anything about it is with an alpha counter into something like Fenrir or Showstoper. Sure a mashed super > dhc into catheads costs resources, but the risk is VERY LOW compared to the high payout, which makes 2 meters kind of cheap. It gets you out of pressure, it has the possibility of leading into big damage, is safe on block, and completely turns the situation into an advantageous one.
It's been there since ST, SFA, and XSF. Because without it, your supers are 65f startup moves that cost meter, whereas your DP is a 5f startup move that doesn't, and which you can choose to super out of later. Especially in SG and MvC2's case, many reversal supers lose to block+assist, or require you to spend an extra meter just to not get killed.
They also cost two bars, a fact that (like "it does damage") people seem to ignore, which I don't understand. Making your opponent spend meter is a GAIN.
I honestly can't believe this complaint is even still a thing, except I guess for the fact that the game came out without it so you could DP supers in the face on reaction. You're only post-flash countering supers in like BB and MvC3, even in SF4 they have hitstop for cryin' out loud.
It's a complaint because SG shouldn't be a game where you default to sit and wait. It should be a game where you hit the buttons and if you hit the right ones you win. (opinions)
The big changes around this were;
-decreased meter gain
-undizzy/combo shortening
By themselves, they do a good job of encouraging reset heavy pressure, more neutral game, whatever else.
-hitstop
By itself fixes the silly 65 frame move thing, makes meters more valuable, gives some characters more combo options.
Together you get a situation where one person gets a hit, or lockdown pressure. They want to go for a reset/mixup. The defender chooses super/notsuper (exaggerating for effect), if the attacker was doing anything like an attack, now the defender has a combo into the same situation...until they both finally run out of meter and actual defending/mindgames can go on. Alternatively the attacker just stops and waits, and either gets another combo or both players sit there looking dumb.
It may just be me, but I suspect frameskip also plays into this playstyle, since mixups get harder to legitimately defend against as the game gets faster. I know I got sick of trying to block Filia and just started doing super when I saw a reset point, regardless of high/low/throw/crossup.