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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

I am probably the only person who is excited that double pushing things may no longer exist. You could/can actually do things like pushblock Bella twice and get her nearly a full screen away if you blocked certain attacks, which are (iirc) j.hk, j.hp, s.mk, Dynamo, and lvl 3 (Dynamo could be double pushed before you take two hits of chip, saving you from getting chipped out, and double pushing lvl 3 avoids potential mixup on block). No one ever did it, cause no one knew about it, but maybe it'll change so I'll never see it anyway.

Also is nice that qcb moves are (may be) easier. It was a pain, but I started to do clockwise 360 starting and ending in forward to get qcb moves. It looks like it'll also maybe help PBGC all those multi hit block stun setups. Which should also make it a little easier for solos to not get danced all over if the opponent has a good assist. Which I personally appreciate.
 
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Multi-hit, nearly impossible to AA, very active, giant hitbox move that you can convert from whenever it hits. Fast-fallable for mixups, difficult to pushblock away, and even if you do you get the Valentine effect, anyway, forcing you to PBGC it or stay in pressure.

But, no, it "doesn't do shit" because it's a heavy that loses to lights if you're too close. RIP Double.
 
Double is still easily like top 3 "If you don't have this character on your team then you're a clown" characters because of Hornet Bomber and Catheads DHC.
On point she's ｄｅｃｅｎｔ ａｔ ｂｅｓｔ though. Wouldn't say she sucks but... *points to sig*. It'd be cool if Hornet Bomber was like Fukua drill where it has frame 1 invul but the assist doesn't, I guess.

Val buffs sound fun. I like it when characters get fun tools. She's already a strong character but this won't break her, hopefully.

PBGC change is... interesting. Skullgirls has hella scary offense so better defensive options are always nice. Honestly, I want to see alpha counters be messed with a bit somehow since the only alpha counter that has actually proved to be useful on a consistent basis in Bella Lock 'n Load. Other than that, I think alpha counters in their current state are lackluster. Not sure how to address that, though.
 
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worldjem said:
Multi-hit, nearly impossible to AA, very active, giant hitbox move that you can convert from whenever it hits. Fast-fallable for mixups, difficult to pushblock away, and even if you do you get the Valentine effect, anyway, forcing you to PBGC it or stay in pressure.

But, no, it "doesn't do shit" because it's a heavy that loses to lights if you're too close. RIP Double.

Parasoul j.lps, fukua cr.hps, Filia can fenrir or jump airdash j.lp, squigly does j.lk, cerebella does anything she feels like doing, big band dps it for free, peacock has some trouble, painwheel has some trouble, fortune can dp or dash under me, val has some trouble

Fast fall mix ups are fake. You block high, you block low or take the throw OR reversal. DONE. Double isn't killing you off of throw. Her resets are fake, if you have a reversal lmao if you play double.

Oh man I'm fighting double. I WONDER what she's going to do??????? ? ?? ? ?? ?? ? ?
HER ONE TOOL. SHE'S GOING TO JUMP THEN SHE'S GOING TO J.HP. THAT'S IT. If she doesn't do that she's going to get smacked the fuck up, and if she does it the majority of the cast beats her before she can actually do it.


She NEEDS cat heads to start anything. She has to work infinitely harder than the rest of the cast to beat anyone, she has low damage output, her moves on point except gun SOMETIMES are worthless at neutral, she has no reversal, on retail she has unsafe blockstrings, anyone anywhere near her pressures her and hits her for free,

but no j.hp is too good.
 
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khaos, FWIW, i've gotten a lot of mileage out of alpha counters with parasoul pillar, though the reward is a good deal less awesome than LnL xx USS.

At the KC extra life, I managed an alpha counter with drag n bite xx daisy pusher, but I kinda mashed the fuck out of daisy and I'm pretty sure alpha counters get a few frames of invulnerability on incoming.
 
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I can only remember one instance where someone successfully Alpha Counter me. Every other time it was beat out by showstopper or horns xx dynamo.
 
Nooooooo I don't like doublllllle she's a gross nun monsterrrrrrr
 
alexpi said:
khaos, FWIW, i've gotten a lot of mileage out of alpha counters with parasoul pillar, though the reward is a good deal less awesome than LnL xx USS.

At the KC extra life, I managed an alpha counter with drag n bite xx daisy pusher, but I kinda mashed the fuck out of daisy and I'm pretty sure alpha counters get a few frames of invulnerability on incoming.

Man I remember seeing that and thinking "wow that's pretty dang good"
 
I remember alpha counters. I did them for 2 weeks and then everybody in KC learned they were a thing. And they were never heard from again.
 
Alpha Counters use is strictly based on the assist though.

AC LK Bomber is anus cheese unless I have 2 meters, even then it is inconsistent and weird due to LK bomber.

BUT FUCKING AC LNL INTO 360!?!?!!??!?!?!?!
 
Dhoppler said:
I remember alpha counters. I did them for 2 weeks and then everybody in KC learned they were a thing. And they were never heard from again.

yeah from my experience they're pretty hard to use properly. Cerebella with LNL is the easiest way to use alpha counter because you can go into 360 or Dynamo, which means if they do something like dp on reaction you still can punish them with dynamo or if they like try to grab you can 360 them. Pretty cool

Other situations are like say your alpha counter is french twist and you block for example parasouls j.lp j.hp mid air, you can alpha counter into french twist and punish someone who wasn't expecting you to do it while in the air. Alpha counters into normals are probably better than alpha counters into special overall, but like no one really uses normals for assists outside of the french twist players. idk

edit: ooooh what if you had like, val st.hp assist and alpha counter'd into kara(this is what its called?) shuriken which kinda moves her out of the way. I wonder if that's useful in anyway
 
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keninblack said:
AC LK Bomber is anus cheese unless I have 2 meters
Wouldn't you need 3 meter
Who cares about Car

ACs sure are lackluster, but I don't know whether I'd want a 1 bar reversal you can do at any point during blockstun or after bursting to be anything else.
They have some surprise effect, so if you use them sparingly you tend to get away with them, and they got a niche use in punishing otherwise safe stuff (most notably Bella Lv3), so they're not useless.
 
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IsaVulpes said:
Wouldn't you need 3 meter
Who cares about Car

ACs sure are lackluster, but I don't know whether I'd want a 1 bar reversal you can do at any point during blockstun or after bursting to be anything else.
They have some surprise effect, so if you use them sparingly you tend to get away with them, and they got a niche use in punishing otherwise safe stuff (most notably Bella Lv3), so they're not useless.

Meant 2 being catheads aside from the 1 meter needed for AC but yeah DAS 3 METERS.
 
herbvijkl said:
let me combo off car pls

Thaaaaaaaats kinda pushing it.

I'd be fine with it if it was like Bellas where you can combo from it but only at certain parts on the screen, not just anywhere.

Thats not her problem though, her problem is damage, and the fact that her only mix up is low/throw in a game as offensively scummy as this one.
 
KhaosMuffins said:
PBGC change is... interesting. Skullgirls has hella scary offense so better defensive options are always nice. Honestly, I want to see alpha counters be messed with a bit somehow since the only alpha counter that has actually proved to be useful on a consistent basis in Bella Lock 'n Load. Other than that, I think alpha counters in their current state are lackluster. Not sure how to address that, though.

I agree that more defensive options would be awesome, but these seems to buff the defensive options everyone hates... namely "when in doubt, mash it out".
 
Spencer said:
I agree that more defensive options would be awesome, but these seems to buff the defensive options everyone hates... namely "when in doubt, mash it out".
Everyone hates any defensive buffs because that means you get to push less buttons on offense and have to think more.

keninblack said:
Thats not her problem though, her problem is damage, and the fact that her only mix up is low/throw in a game as offensively scummy as this one.
Eh, she gets easy, meterless conversions off of grabs so even if all she has is low/throw, it's a strong low/throw game. Yeah, there's scaling on throws but her combos easily lead back into the low/throw/bait situation. Her air resets aren't that great, though.

I'm all for the #BuffDouble movement but at the same time I feel like you guys are undercutting her a bit.
...says the Fortune player.
 
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damage off of grabs is so little and her resets are so bleh that you end up resetting with throw over and over then get reversal'd and then you die. THAT sucks dude. It happens very often vs experience people in the double match up
like, I know there are resets that beats people who read her fake resets but they're inconsistent and if they just end up blocking right then rip
 
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Since when did double do bad damage?

Fist combo does 7.6k for 1 bar, doesn't work on Ms.Fortune, Painwheel, Parasoul and BigBand.
Second combo does 7.4k for 1 bar, single change allows the same combo to work on the ones it didn't work on before.
3rd combo is the same but done with j.HP scaling to show damage, 7.1k
4th combo is the same but with a typical asssist thrown in, 8.6k for 1 bar.


Sure, throw combos don't do nearly as much damage (around the 5.8k for 1 meter ballpark iirc), but no one else's does outside of grapplers. Double has the benefit of converting off of any throw into a combo without having to resort to using meter, assists or a corner.

WITH THAT BEING SAID, the change Double got is hardly going to change her. Yes its a buff, no its not a big deal.

Valentine changes look fun too and not something that will bust her.
 
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@KhaosMuffins

I don't hate defensive buffs at all. Take something like Blazblue's burst. Something like that is awesome. It takes thought on both players. It can be baited to punish it. It takes time to refill, but it is effectively a get out of jail free card that you get to choose to play mostly when you want... which is pretty freaking powerful. Not that I'm actually advocating a BB burst mechanic. I'm just using it to show the kind of defensive options I like.

I also think the defensive options are understated here. You can literally pushblock almost every move. There is no sitting through what feels like infinite blockstrings because if you know how and when to pushblock, you can actually take the momentum. It is also bait-able and punish-able. It is an excellent defensive mechanic, and it is one that is well-implemented.

I just worry (and this is obviously without having played it, so my concerns could all be for naught) that we are throwing a bone to the exact last thing that needs any buffs... invuln assist. They are incredibly good at neutral with just a tiny punish window before you get hit by them. They are hard to punish after the fact because you have a point that is expecting you to try and go in. And they are always a threat if you put your opponent in a blockstring enough so that if you don't have your own assist or are solo, often you have to back off rather than risk eating the incoming assist. And the reward they get for hitting you with the assist is a lot of damage and the loss of momentum. And that's what we want to make better?

This game often already seems like "defend until Updo hits", won't this just make that worse?

Hell, realistically, nothing might change... but just a concern is all.
 
Spencer said:
This game often already seems like "defend until Updo hits", won't this just make that worse?
I don't think it is like that, but now I want to see a match where players only got hits via updo conversions. Does this exist?
 
so, I got good news and bad news for you herb. Good news is that you can totally combo off car. Bad news is that it requires you to play painwheel
 
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Grunt said:
I don't think it is like that, but now I want to see a match where players only got hits via updo conversions. Does this exist?

no dp assists here~(anymore anyways)
 
dekillsage said:
I don't see the problem with it. The difference between 235 undizzy and 240 undizzy does make a difference and can be hard to see in the middle of your super intense crazy amazing spectacular unbelievable match. Idk how making that easier to know is a problem
maybe a blinking bar at 240?
 
hey can anyone test in beta pbgc item drop release and pbgc negative edge catheads (both double and fortune)
 
I completely forget that I can also release a SoiD with little effort with this now. Not sure why you would want to negative edge into double's catheads since it lost invincibility, but definitely makes it easier for fortune to have the head retaliate against the opponent during a PBGC.
 
To the people pointing out that you can do things after a pushblock like call assists etc...you already can do that, you just release Back for like 2f at the end of your pushblock then go back to it. I do it regularly with assists. It's easier, sure, but that doesn't mean it wasn't done before this.

Spencer said:
Take something like Blazblue's burst. Something like that is awesome. It takes thought on both players. It can be baited to punish it. It takes time to refill, but it is effectively a get out of jail free card that you get to choose to play mostly when you want... which is pretty freaking powerful.
I couldn't resist, but this wasn't BB's burst mechanic until BBCP when they decided to take GG's bursts and put them in BB. Between CT (Burst = DANGER) and CP, bursts were awful.
Also they still can't really be baited super effectively in CP unless you have disjoint attacks or are Arakune, they're too fast. GG's bursts are better in this regard, and in every other regard (no Overdrive).
 
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RemiKz said:
I completely forget that I can also release a SoiD with little effort with this now. Not sure why you would want to negative edge into double's catheads since it lost invincibility, but definitely makes it easier for fortune to have the head retaliate against the opponent during a PBGC.
im meaning when cats are already out not to activate them
as in to do the attack
 
dekillsage said:
damage off of grabs is so little and her resets are so bleh that you end up resetting with throw over and over then get reversal'd and then you die.

High level double in a nutshell.


She needs a slight damage buff imho. Shes of course still quite good but she is lacking at point right now because of the combo of lack of stellar resets and lack of big damage. Just about every other character either has really good resets, or big damage, or in vals case, super serious movement options.

Double has j.hp and confirms off of dp assists well and thats kinda it. Cats its a crapshoot on point both needing 2 meters, scaling combos hard, and the assist macro nerf making pbgc a legit counter to cats lockdown now.

There is new tech for double, but still her damage is a sore point. And j.hp is pretty easy to deal with. Out range, or smack her with a move that activates faster than the 17 frame startup that her j.hp is... Which is basically all light attacks and most mediums and a few heavies. Most characters have good ways of dealing with j.hp though.
 
Spencer said:
Doesn't Double Butt effectively count as a DP?

It has two frames of vulnerable startup. It's ass as an on-point DP.
:PUN:

L Extend can get away with one frame of vulnerable startup because it can actually control space.
 
Double is next on the list after Val that mostly needs an anti-boredom buff

Barrel Low/Throw Barrel Low/Throw Barrel Bar--Airthrow Barrel Low/Throw Barrel Barrel Barrel Car is just not very uplifting

People need to find more things like this or that, and actually use them, and fuck Barrel Loop

WTB more fancy
 
the luger one will get double counter hit and killed if blocked it sucks.

edit: It sucks you die when its blocked. looks cool/10
 
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