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Skullgirls PC Beta Updates Discussion

Jason said:
Well Car has the taller hitbox on the first active frame (which is the one with the hitstop), and more invul frames.

Dynamo gets you a combo in the corner and reaches a bit a further forward on the first active frame.

I'm really not seeing how Dynamo is soooooooo much better than Car.

So PLEASE enlighten me instead of posting sarcastic reaction images and adding nothing to the conversation, K?


Car doesnt have hitstop unblockability outside of when double is cornered and her opponent is point blank.
Car doesnt hit crossups, car is mashable through even if the other character was in the middle of a normal, car doesnt allow corner otg combos afterwards. Car isnt a particularly good AA but DD is stellar at it. Car cant convert into full combos at midscreen via assist like DD can..



And probably the biggest overall thing is lack of hitstop unblockability and, car cant be dhc'd into catheads... Probably dont think this last one is a point worth considering, but seeing as to how this is a team game.. And people love to DD>cats on block, i do.
 
Dime_x said:
Car doesnt have hitstop unblockability outside of when double is cornered and her opponent is point blank.

Oh well that explains it. I was under the impression that it had more hitstop than that. The more you know.
 
WarpedEcho said:
On the other hand, there are a lot of different new restands now, and new things you can do to get +frames into reset. But I don't understand why its needs to be changed so arbitrarily.
It's got nothing to do with what you as a Filia player wanted, or with providing new tech.
There were a LOT of situations where she worked completely differently than other characters either while moving around or while being hit. She has needed hella fixing for a long time.
So, she got hella fixing.
We tried to get her working as much the same as before as possible, but some things are bound to be different. That means those things are now different.
There are several other situations that need fixing for consistency (Cerebella not having a back of the head while standing or feet while hit in the air, being able to ground crossup some characters' back techs in the corner, etc) but FI/FU were the most drastic so they got done first.

And yes, you can't cross around them as easily, that was a symptom of her problem.
 
- Air Savage Bypass allows Valentine to move afterward on hit only. Limited to 2 per jump, and they must be different strengths.

Curious on why they need to be different strengths. Was 2 HK Air Bypass dealing that much damage?
 
These changes were added for consistency.

The rules are something like "Parasites have hurt boxes after their active frames are finished."
Filia doesn't follow them because she is the first character created and never had her hit boxes redone after the rule was established.

At least he tried to keep things the same as before by adjusting some attacks to deal with her hit boxes changes.

They were just redone now, is all : )

Jason said:
Oh well that explains it. I was under the impression that it had more hitstop than that. The more you know.
Yeah, car is not a reversal mid screen, every character has a way to beat it for a full jump in counter hit punish.

Double only has LVL5 or LVL3 or LK Bomber xx Catheads (2 Meters) but even then LK Bomber has vulnerable frames before it comes out.

Scalpels is better than Car because of it.
Dynamo
EKG
DC
 
Mr. X said:
- Air Savage Bypass allows Valentine to move afterward on hit only. Limited to 2 per jump, and they must be different strengths.
Curious on why they need to be different strengths. Was 2 HK Air Bypass dealing that much damage?
Not really, but it's the closest I could get to "nobody else is allowed to do an air special more than once (besides Painwheel and flying is special)" while still letting her have two. Plus this way you have to figure out the best place to put H's, and I don't have to go make it so that H only combos into another Bypass to force you to use other strengths. It's easier to combo off L or M, because they do less damage.
 
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WarpedEcho said:
Edit: another thing she lost is sideswitch combos, so now if you happy birthday with your back to the corner, you can't do launch jhp adc jlk jhk to switch sides and get the double snap.
This is probably the most devastating thing as now I've lost my primary way of controlling my on-screen positioning.
 
Lem said:
These changes were added for consistency.

The rules are something like "Parasites have hurt boxes after their active frames are finished."
I'm fine with giving Filia hurtboxes on hair stuff, but if the reason is "because lore", and the lore says parasites can get hurt and living weapons can't (explaining Parasoul's umbrella), then that'll lead me to the "why can Vice Versa get hit" question.
 
Zidiane said:
I'm fine with giving Filia hurtboxes on hair stuff, but if the reason is "because lore", and the lore says parasites can get hurt and living weapons can't (explaining Parasoul's umbrella), then that'll lead me to the "why can Vice Versa get hit" question.
Because I said so, go to your room.
Lore doesn't have anything to do with this hahaha.

WarpedEcho said:
Edit: another thing she lost is sideswitch combos, so now if you happy birthday with your back to the corner, you can't do launch jhp adc jlk jhk to switch sides and get the double snap.
I can see about fixing that. I did think it was a little stupid, but I realize it's a main part of playing her and didn't realize she didn't get it anymore cuz it still works on the characters I randomly tried it on.
 
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Zidiane said:
I'm fine with giving Filia hurtboxes on hair stuff, but if the reason is "because lore", and the lore says parasites can get hurt and living weapons can't (explaining Parasoul's umbrella), then that'll lead me to the "why can Vice Versa get hit" question.
It's not lore its consistency.
The rule wasn't created for Alex it was created for the game play.

You can hit Squigly jHP with MK Buer.
You can hit Titan Knuckle with MK Buer.
You can hit Eliza's blood parasite attack things with MK Buer.
You can hit Peacocks artificial parasite attacks with MK Buer.
You can hit Painwheels artificial parasite attacks with MK Buer.
You can't Filias parasite attacks with MK Buer unless it's 2MP.

Lol lore fixes.

Also @Mike_Z double retains her no hurtbox version of Filias 2HP in the beta.
Is that sticking around or
 
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Mike_Z said:
Because I said so, go to your room.
Lore doesn't have anything to do with this hahaha.
Jokes on you, I'm already in my room!

I figured Lore didn't have anything to do with it (because of other decisions you've made), but using the words "as with every other parasite" sorta made me think maybe it was a lore reason. But if it's not then it's not.
 
Okay, consistency for consistency. I can still say what I find different and ask if there can be changes to make it so some things work like they used to in the new circumstances (or I would hope.) One thing is jhk hitting consistently on the way up after a hp launch against the cast. I'm on 4 hours of sleep from last night, so I'll go through the character specific shit tomorrow, but from what I saw trying the fix out, some characters just have it whiff if you do it right away on the way up. It used to work on 100% of the cast before when you did it right away on the way up, but now it doesn't. In addition to this, when you do things like jhk adc jlk jmp, you can't chain into the jhk anymore. It just whiffs and then you hit the ground. Just curious as to why the jhk doesn't stop the vertical momentum and come out like it used to. (I think I'm answering my own question here) I'm guessing the extent box shift for her point being changed makes it so you can't cancel into jhk from jmp when its really low to the ground. You used to be able to chain into it very low to the ground (but even in retail there is still a cutoff point), but the cutoff point in beta is changed to be higher because of the fix.
 
Lem said:
It's not lore its consistency.
The rule wasn't created for Alex it was created for the game play.

Lol lore fixes.
I was equivocating "lore" and "how the characters function in the story". Because characters having living weapons and parasites aren't gameplay related. So, whatever word you need to use.
 
Lem said:
It's not lore its consistency.
The rule wasn't created for Alex it was created for the game play.

You can hit Squigly jHP with MK Buer.
You can hit Titan Knuckle with MK Buer.
You can hit Eliza's blood parasite attack things with MK Buer.
You can hit Peacocks artificial parasite attacks with MK Buer.
You can hit Painwheels artificial parasite attacks with MK Buer.
You can't Filias parasite attacks with MK Buer unless it's 2MP.

Lol lore fixes.

Also @Mike_Z double retains her no hurtbox version of Filias 2HP in the beta.
Is that sticking around or
God forbid a character get any disjointed attacks, right? I don't see you making these complaints about Painwheel's normals.
 
Broken Loose said:
God forbid a character get any disjointed attacks, right? I don't see you making these complaints about Painwheel's normals.
The only attacks that are disjointed are the metal, lifeless object part of her parasite kit, the blades.
Every thing else has a hurtbox.
Check LK Buer, MK Buer, HK Buer, the air versions too.
Also JMP for example has a hurt box on all parasite parts up until the metal blades.

Also he can add hurtboxes to things like the spikes on sLP sMP too.
Whatever I don't really care.
They seem less lifelike and parasite like than Filias living hair weapon that talks.
 
Look, if the excuse is "the lore says it's a parasite" or "all parasites need to be consistent ingame" then Gae Bolga needs green on all its hitboxes.

If we're allowed to argue semantics about whether or not part of the parasite is technically organic or alive, then it should be noted that hair is made of dead cells.
 
I think the metal saws are metal saws and Samson is a living breathing organism made up of cells with personality, and emotion, and should follow the rules set for other things similar (Leviathan, Shamone, Vice Versa)

But yes, lets add hurtboxes to the metal blades of Gae Bolga (What move is that btw)
 
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WarpedEcho said:
This filia height change thing affects the jhk adc restand a lot. You used to be able to just j hk rising from the launch and then adc, but now j hk doesn't hit on the way up for a lot of the cast. This gets rid of things like duckator launch string (launch jhk adc jlk jmp j hk restand), jhk xx hk airball adc into big ground bounce from cr hp, and a lot of the time, from duck's string even if you do adjust to the character you're hitting (like delaying the j hk on the way up) either the jhk doesn't restand or it just doesn't come out at all.

edit: this also gets rid of things like being able to crossup with j hk after doing launch jhp adc jlk delay jhk
edit2: this also gets rid of combo options like in the corner when you do jhp jhk xx hk airball adc jmk jhp (somegroundstring to combo after jhp hits). The jhp just flat out doesn't come out like it used to

Okay, consistency for consistency. I can still say what I find different and ask if there can be changes to make it so some things work like they used to in the new circumstances (or I would hope.) One thing is jhk hitting consistently on the way up after a hp launch against the cast. I'm on 4 hours of sleep from last night, so I'll go through the character specific shit tomorrow, but from what I saw trying the fix out, some characters just have it whiff if you do it right away on the way up. It used to work on 100% of the cast before when you did it right away on the way up, but now it doesn't. In addition to this, when you do things like jhk adc jlk jmp, you can't chain into the jhk anymore. It just whiffs and then you hit the ground. Just curious as to why the jhk doesn't stop the vertical momentum and come out like it used to. (I think I'm answering my own question here) I'm guessing the extent box shift for her point being changed makes it so you can't cancel into jhk from jmp when its really low to the ground. You used to be able to chain into it very low to the ground (but even in retail there is still a cutoff point), but the cutoff point in beta is changed to be higher because of the fix.

for all her old routes, you pretty much have to super jump, or delay the j.hk split seconds before it uncombos. I tested it out, on everyone, only does not work on Bella if you use s.mk which now seems to push opponents further? Duck string still works, have to do character specific delays to get it. Also, more important imo is that after launch whiffs on bella if you ever use s.mk in the ground chain, you cant ever get a comboed j.hk
 
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Lem said:
But yes, lets add hurtboxes to the metal blades of Gae Bolga (What move is that btw)
I can't help but question what you're doing here. "Yeah, let's change that move around! What move is it again?"
 
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Zidiane said:
I can't help but question what you're doing here. "Yeah, let's change that move around! What move is it again?"
Because it was sarcasm.
I don't think it's needed to change those moves on Painwheel.
She follows the rules.

I don't really care either way though lol.
It's not like it will make a difference, her spine cord thing already has hurtboxes just up until the blades and nobody hits those.
 
Gae Bolga is Painwheel's Parasite. It is all of the shit that sticks out of her body when she does moves.

Her blade isn't the Gae Bolga. It is the Buer Overdrive.

All of this could be wrong, but I think it's legit.

Want a lore reason? I'll make one up. It is a synthetic parasite and so only partially follows the rules. Problem solved!
 
Spencer said:
Gae Bolga is Painwheel's Parasite. It is all of the shit that sticks out of her body when she does moves.

Want a lore reason? I'll make one up. It is a synthetic parasite and so only partially follows the rules. Problem solved!
B-b-b-b-b-but Peacocks arms are synthetic parasites and they have hurt boxes!!!!!
I actually dont know if this is true I dont follow lore, story, or move names lol.
 
I've got the real answer.

The spikes aren't the parasite, but they are caused by the parasite form unknown.

"Gae Bolga Matrix: A Synthetic Parasite developed in ASG Lab Zero for Painwheel's use. Its true form is unknown, but it resides in Painwheel's bloodstream and enables her to release large, organic needle-like projections from various parts of her body. This occurs as the parasite takes the form of a metal when it leaves her body. While doing this would normally kill the user, Painwheel's extensive training and Skullgirl blood in her allows her to use it quite extensively."

[Source]
 
Gae Bolga (Stinger) is also the name of a move.

This also is starting to go off topic. There's no point in nitpicking the lore here if the gameplay isn't being changed to match the lore (which Mike confirmed wasn't the case a couple posts ago).
 
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Wow this is the first time I've seen lore and gameplay in the same topic. Too bad most of the SG community doesn't care for the story :^(.
 
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She has skullgirl blood in her body?
So she's attacking with like blood needles?

Dope.
 
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Yeah so ignoring basically all of that...

Nothing changed about Filia's ground attacks at all. Zip. And the hitboxes on her air attacks are also the same.
The height limit on when you land with air moves is exactly the same relative to her art as it used to be. It is lower with respect to her point but that doesn't matter at all.
Post stuff that doesn't work anymore and who it used to work on and I'll look at it. So far I have j.HK cross over and s.HP /\ j.HK (which I tested and still works on everyone so, ?)
 
Mike_Z said:
Nothing changed about Filia's ground attacks at all. Zip.

Post stuff that doesn't work anymore and who it used to work on and I'll look at it.
Would a new thread be helpful to separate it from Valentine discussion?
 
Mike_Z said:
Nothing changed about Filia's ground attacks at all. Zip. And the hitboxes on her air attacks are also the same.
Other than the hurtboxes, you mean?
 
Possibly, but would people use it?

And yes, I mean the hitboxes and physical extents are exactly the same for ground attacks, i.e. nothing that affects your combos.
 
BrandX+ said:
Wow this is the first time I've seen lore and gameplay in the same topic. Too bad most of the SG community doesn't care for the story :^(.
Would be the opposite really.

If I recall correctly, Fukua's hurtboxes on s.HP were the same as live Filia, I'm assuming either I'm mistaken or that got changed too. I will check when I'm home.
 
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I kinda miss the crazy anti-air hitbox on Filia/Fukua's s.HP

Everything else, good riddance.
 
Jason said:
I kinda miss the crazy anti-air hitbox on Filia/Fukua's s.HP

Everything else, good riddance.
It's still there? Just now she can get hit after the move due to that big fat hurtbox on Samson's Pincers.

Also is it just me or does Filia control more tightly now? Unsure if it's just placebo or what.

Edit: I also noticed another thing.

As Filia against Big Band, Filia, Fukua and Eliza, s.HP j.HP j.HK works differently in the corner. In live you can just press j.HP j.HK right away after you launch them, but now in the Beta it seems like you need to delay the j.HP a bit otherwise j.HK will whiff entirely.

I feel like doing H Airball ADC j.MP j.HK after that is a bit tighter too, seems like you get less j.MP hits. I suppose Filia's moves don't prop enemies as high as they used to anymore?
 
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Zidiane said:
In MDE I could kill 1v2 off of c.lk from like 80% of the screen, and v3's die anywhere. I could also kill Double anywhere on the screen from c.lk with a bar and a half (@mcpeanuts probably remembers this, it was really bad).
Fuck that shit. It was like "hey I don't want to play trio because solobella can touch of death. Oh she can still touch of death if I play duo. Cooooooooooooool"
 
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Also another thing, s.HP j.HP ADC j.LP j.HK doesn't work on Big Band or Valentine anymore, I'm unsure if you can just delay something to make it work though, I'll check tomorrow.
 
So j.HK is no longer an overhead, oh god what?
 
So does this cerebella bugfix mean gregor will stop scraping the domepiece and then wiffing? daw if so
 
Silly change imo. Just conceptually it doesn't make that much sense, I can see why Fukua's j.HK thing is mid due to the 9f start up (That shit would be stupid if it hit high) but Filia's j.HK is no where near as abusable as Fukua's j.HK in that context. Out of all the j.HK changes that happened in the beta, I liked the no IAD cross up one.
 
Not sure if I am comfortable with ringlet spike being a better safer low-profiling silver chord (Sans armor breaking and invincibility on hit)
 
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